Rate the following NCAA QBs for the NFL Draft (1 Viewer)

[azcards33]

Never too early to get the old NFL draft hype started, so I thought I'd throw out a few names to get a feel of what you guys think of these guys, and how good/bad they will be. Here is an early list of QBs eligible for the 2006 Draft. I thought that this would be a good time to do this because everyone has now had an opportunity to observe these guys for a few weeks:

Seniors

Matt Leinart

Brodie Croyle

Kellen Clemens

Jay Cutler

Bruce Gradkowski

Reggie McNeal

D.J. Shockley

Brad Smith

Charlie Whitehurst

Juniors

Reggie Ball

Omar Jacobs

Chris Leak

Tyler Palko

Jordan Palmer

Troy Smith

Marcus Vick

Jared Zabransky

Sam Keller

Vince Young

Trent Edwards

Brady Quinn

Drew Tate

Drew Stanton

Feel free to list anyone else who I may have missed

 

[lionzroar1]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young. This guy is incredible! He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him. He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast. i look for him to be a bust. IMHO

 

[B. Nugget]

Never too early to get the old NFL draft hype started, so I thought I'd throw out a few names to get a feel of what you guys think of these guys, and how good/bad they will be. Here is an early list of QBs eligible for the 2006 Draft. I thought that this would be a good time to do this because everyone has now had an opportunity to observe these guys for a few weeks:

Seniors

Matt Leinart

Brodie Croyle

Kellen Clemens

Jay Cutler

Bruce Gradkowski

Reggie McNeal

D.J. Shockley

Brad Smith

Charlie Whitehurst

Juniors

Reggie Ball

Omar Jacobs

Chris Leak

Tyler Palko

Jordan Palmer

Troy Smith

Marcus Vick

Jared Zabransky

Sam Keller

Vince Young

Trent Edwards

Brady Quinn

Drew Tate

Drew Stanton

Feel free to list anyone else who I may have missed

Leinert is the only Senior that grabs me as a sure-fire star at the next level, I'm sure there will be others, but they will have to prove themselves, where he is pretty much guaranteed a shot at greatness.Brad Smith will make a hell of a kick returner/WR, he is truly amazing with the ball in his hands in the open field. McNeal, Shockley, Whitehurst, etc... are all in the same mold, so they may all end up in similar positions. It seems like there is one every season with guys like Hines Ward, Randel El, Matt Jones and Curry in recent years, I think the QB to WR transition to the NFL is getting ready to explode.

B. Nugget

 

[b1leper]

Bama homer here, so take this with a grain of salt, but Croyle can be a stud in the NFL IF he can stay healthy. He can make every throw and has all of the intangibles. He's mobile, moves well in the pocket, and always keeps his eyes downfield. He makes the right read almost every play, and often audibles into a huge play (see Prothro bomb on first play vs UF and Darby touchdown run vs Ole Miss).He has the talent. When he came out of high school he was the number one QB prospect in the country. The HUGE knock on him is his durability. The last time he played an entire year without missing a game was his junior year in high schoo. Both ACLs have been repaired curtousy of Dr. Andrews and he has had shoulder problems (non-throwing).Supposedly all of the injuries and health issues are in the past. If so (and I hope they are) Brodie should go early in the draft and perform well at the next level.

 

[Battles]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young. This guy is incredible! He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.

As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him. He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast. i look for him to be a bust. IMHO

Your description of Leinart sounds like Brady. I know everyone already makes the comparison, but I'm one that thinks it's fair.As for Vince, I think he's a bust. The guy is not a good pocket passer. He's inaccurate on short throws and lacks touch on deep ones. Also, the strange and lazy delivery he has will not fly in the NFL.

 

[culdeus]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young. This guy is incredible! He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.

As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him. He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast. i look for him to be a bust. IMHO

Your description of Leinart sounds like Brady. I know everyone already makes the comparison, but I'm one that thinks it's fair.As for Vince, I think he's a bust. The guy is not a good pocket passer. He's inaccurate on short throws and lacks touch on deep ones. Also, the strange and lazy delivery he has will not fly in the NFL.

He'll make a good WR though.

 

[nortobc]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young.  This guy is incredible!  He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.

As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him.  He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast.  i look for him to be a bust.  IMHO

Your description of Leinart sounds like Brady. I know everyone already makes the comparison, but I'm one that thinks it's fair.As for Vince, I think he's a bust. The guy is not a good pocket passer. He's inaccurate on short throws and lacks touch on deep ones. Also, the strange and lazy delivery he has will not fly in the NFL.

Leinart will not have Reggie Bush to bail him out in the NFL. He is a good decision maker and leader but lacks the physical tools to be a star in the NFL. If he lands himself in a good situation...ala Roethlisberger...he might have a decent career.Leinart and Brady = product of the system. Look at how well the Patriots are doing this year without Weis and Romeo.

Vince Young throwing machanics are not very good. He is a great athlete but that will only get you so far in the NFL at the QB position.

Best QBs from the list:

-Brodie Croyle

-Whitehurst (don't know why someone stated he is a DJ Shockley type. He is definitely a pocket passer and very big, strong and accurate)

-Chris Leak

-Vick

-Brady Quinn

-Sam Keller

-Kellen Clemons

Don't know much about the Pac-10 QBs, but I do know Keller is very good.

 

[Tick]

Brad Smith is a really exciting player, but I haven't seen him play in two years. It seems his stock has been declining... why?

 

[jurb26]

1. Matt Leinart2. Vince Young3. Cris Leak4. Brady Quinn5. Marcus Vick6. Brodie Croyle7. Drew Tate8. Drew Stanton9. Omar Jacobs10. Sam Keller11. Charlie Whitehurst12. Tyler PalkoThat's about all the further I can get right now.

 

[B. Nugget]

Brad Smith is a really exciting player, but I haven't seen him play in two years. It seems his stock has been declining... why?

Defenses scheme to stop his running and he isn't a good passer (he does have a strong arm, just not accurate) and his WRs are usually not able to bail him out if he doesn't put it right into their hands.B. Nugget

 

[Titans2003]

Brad Smith dropped last year because his idiot coach tried to make him more of a pocket passer. He's back to his running ways this year, but Missouri isn't going to finish more than 7-4 so he won't get any pub. Do you think Alex Smith would have been the number one overall pick had Utah not gone 11-0?Smith suffered a concussion in last week's game. I think he has the arm strength to be an NFL QB.

 

[Chase Stuart]

1. Matt Leinart

2. Vince Young

3. Cris Leak

4. Brady Quinn

5. Marcus Vick

6. Brodie Croyle

7. Drew Tate

8. Drew Stanton

9. Omar Jacobs

10. Sam Keller

11. Charlie Whitehurst

12. Tyler Palko

That's about all the further I can get right now.

Why so low on Jacobs?

 

[jurb26]

1. Matt Leinart

2. Vince Young

3. Cris Leak

4. Brady Quinn

5. Marcus Vick

6. Brodie Croyle

7. Drew Tate

8. Drew Stanton

9. Omar Jacobs

10. Sam Keller

11. Charlie Whitehurst

12. Tyler Palko

That's about all the further I can get right now.

Why so low on Jacobs?

It's not so much that I am low on him, but that I have been very impressed with the others ahead of him and they are doing it vs tougher schools.

 

[B. Nugget]

Brad Smith dropped last year because his idiot coach tried to make him more of a pocket passer.  He's back to his running ways this year, but Missouri isn't going to finish more than 7-4 so he won't get any pub.  Do you think Alex Smith would have been the number one overall pick had Utah not gone 11-0?

Smith suffered a concussion in last week's game.  I think he has the arm strength to be an NFL QB.

Actually, Brad had almost the same number of rushes that he had the year before, the common misconception is that they tried to make him a pocket passer. In reality, the defenses caught up to him and made him beat them with his arm. During his big 2003 year, he had two all-conference O-lineman and the schools all time leading rusher to help him out. Last year he had 3 new starters on the O-line and a junior with about 50 career carries with a bad attitude and a redshirt frosh in the backfield.Here are his career stats coming into the year.

SMITH CAREER PASSING STATISTICS

G-GS Co.-Att. Pct. Yds. TDs INTs Rating

2002 12-12 196-366 53.6% 2,333 15 6 117.34

2003 13-13 211-350 60.3% 1,977 11 7 114.11

2004 11-11 191-369 51.8% 2,185 17 11 110.74

Totals 36-36 598-1085 55.1% 6,495 43 24 114.05

SMITH CAREER RUSHING STATISTICS

Att. Yds. Avg. TD Long

2002 193 1,029 5.3 7 75

2003 212 1,406 6.6 18 64

2004 165 553 3.4 4 36

Totals 570 2,988 5.2 29 75

SMITH CAREER TOTAL OFFENSE STATISTICS

Plays Yds. Avg./G

2002 559 3,362 280.2

2003 562 3,383 260.2

2004 534 2,738 248.9

Totals 1,655 9,483 263.4

He averaged under 2 less carries than the year before, passed on average less than seven more times per game, had the ball in his hands in total plays about 3 times less and ended up with about 11 yards difference in total offense per game than the year before when he was a 2nd team All-American. Of course the year before they played 12 games and a bowl game, but the stats are averages and they played from behind more in 2004.

Where are all of the extra passes that he attempted as a pocket passer instead of running? There was no other threat on the team, so when they shut down the run, you have to pass. They shut down the run alot last year.

One other thing, he is averaging almost 34 passing attempts and 18 carries per game this season.

If you want to question the play calls, that's a different story...

B. Nugget

 

[MU Seminole]

I agree about a previous post about Croyle. I like what I've seen from Cutler in watching about six total quarters of his games - he is carrying a team with very slim talent to get them to play above their talent level. A few of his last minute, fourth quarter drives have been pretty impressive. Leadership and intangibles look good. Physically, he looks good as well.I'm still not sold on Shockley but will see how he looks in the UF, Auburn, SECCG and bowl games. I don't see Brad Smith doing anything at QB in the pros. Whitehurst has nice size and experience; think he could be a nice sleeper if he shows more consistency.From the JRs, Ball and Leak won't do anything at QB in the pros. I didn't know Quinn has the size he does; improves my view of him.

 

[Jason Wood]

1) Omar Jacobs

2) Drew Stanton

3) Vince Young (if someone wants another Vick, I don't personally think he'll ever be a solid NFL passer

4) Matt Leinart

5) Brady Quinn

 

[chihawk]

1) Omar Jacobs

2) Drew Stanton

3) Vince Young (if someone wants another Vick, I don't personally think he'll ever be a solid NFL passer

4) Matt Leinart

5) Brady Quinn

Obviously everyone has Leinhart towards the top of the list, but I agree with Jason that Drew Stanton is a great NFL prospect. He has all the tools to step up to the next level and be a great QB, and I would put him towards the top of the list.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I think that Brady Quinn will have the best NFL career out of all these QBs.

 

[Jason Wood]

1) Omar Jacobs

2) Drew Stanton

3) Vince Young (if someone wants another Vick, I don't personally think he'll ever be a solid NFL passer

4) Matt Leinart

5) Brady Quinn

Obviously everyone has Leinhart towards the top of the list, but I agree with Jason that Drew Stanton is a great NFL prospect. He has all the tools to step up to the next level and be a great QB, and I would put him towards the top of the list.

To be clear about my list, these aren't necessarily the guys I think will be drafted the highest or in this order, but rather the guys I think will have the best pro careers out of the obvious current candidates.By the way, how much longer are the "Vince Young can't pass" denizens going to maintain that notion relative to his NFL draft prospects? Last time I checked he completed 25 of 29 for 336 yards and 2 TDs against Colorado.

On the season:

93 of 138 (67% completion)

1,357 yards
12 TD passes
5 Ints

 

[Jason Wood]

I think that Brady Quinn will have the best NFL career out of all these QBs.

So does Phil Simms. After the Notre Dame/USC game, Simms made his weekly appearance on The NFL Now (with Mike Francesa) and said if he had to choose between Leinart and Quinn to start an NFL franchise, he would choose Quinn.My first instinct was to laugh myself off the road, but then I thought... Simms know a lot more about quarterbacking than I ever will so maybe he knows something.

 

[Jason Wood]

NFL Draft Scout rankings...by projected round (2006-2008 Prospects, only through first five rounds):

First Round

Matt Leinart, USC, 2006

Vince Young, Texas, 2007
Chris Leak, Florida, 2007
Drew Stanton, Michigan State, 2007
Brian Brohm, Louisville, 2008Second Round

Reggie McNeal, Texas A&M, 2006
Omar Jacobs, Bowling Green, 2007
JaMarcus Russell, LSU, 2008
Chad Henne, Michigan, 2008
Kyle Wright, Miami, 2008Third Round

Brad Smith, Missouri, 2006
Marcus Vick, VaTech, 2007
Sam Keller, Arizona State, 2007
Erik Ainge, Tennessee, 2008
Bret Myers, Iowa State, 2008
Rhett Bomar, Oklahoma, 2008Fourth Round

Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo, 2006
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, 2006
Drew Tate, Iowa, 2007
Brady Quinn, Notre Dame, 2007
Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh, 2007Fifth Round

Brodie Croyle, Alabama, 2006
Charlie Whitehurt, Clemson, 2006
Jordan Palmer, UTEP, 2007
Joe Ayoob, California, 2007
Robert Johnson, Arkansas, 2008
Ricky Santos, New Hampshire, 2008
Josh David Booty, USC, 2008

 

[Chaos Commish]

1) Omar Jacobs

2) Drew Stanton

3) Vince Young (if someone wants another Vick, I don't personally think he'll ever be a solid NFL passer

4) Matt Leinart

5) Brady Quinn

Obviously everyone has Leinhart towards the top of the list, but I agree with Jason that Drew Stanton is a great NFL prospect. He has all the tools to step up to the next level and be a great QB, and I would put him towards the top of the list.

By the way, how much longer are the "Vince Young can't pass" denizens going to maintain that notion relative to his NFL draft prospects? Last time I checked he completed 25 of 29 for 336 yards and 2 TDs against Colorado. On the season:

93 of 138 (67% completion)

1,357 yards
12 TD passes
5 Ints

Vince Young, imho, is the best bet on these lists. He has an odd delivery, but it isn't a mechanical mess. It's clean, it's quick, and he has all the throws. Mechanically he is superior to a few NFL QBs right now. He is very very accurate under pressure. He was amazing on the game winning drive against Ohio St. Very few QBs at any level make those three passes under that pressure. He proved that kind of accuracy is no fluke this weekend. Literally, exactly, precisely PERFECT with no other option on the field. It was playmaking of the highest order under the highest pressure and this is one cool customer, very confident in his ability, very smart on and off the field, grounded mentally-- a winner.

Those thinking WR are just following some silly notion and not watching this kid play. No way does have WR skills. He is not that kind of runner. He is very much like McNabb was-- very much. It will take a couple years, but when it all comes together and if he isn't ruined by some terrible situation-- he'll be a top tier QB.

He's doing more with less WR talent than any QB in the country. At USC, LSU, Ohio St, or a few other schools, he would be rated the #1 QB without question.

Also, I post at a couple other forums where Leinart is worshipped. It's refreshing to read some contradictions to the hype here.

 

[Tom Collins]

Any chances Marcus Vick comes out this year?

 

[Double_J]

Wow, all of these responses and no one mentions Jay Cutler? He has absolutely NO help at Vanderbilt and he's still going to be All SEC. He's by far the most underrated on that list and has the best shot of being a HUGE steal in the draft if he goes in the 4th round.

 

[jurb26]

Any chances Marcus Vick comes out this year?

Let's hope not. Maturity concerns are sure to hurt his draft status. I think another year of proving himself and his ablity to stay our of trouble (crosses fingers) could only help him and his draft status.

 

[Clark Griswold]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young.  This guy is incredible!  He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.

As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him.  He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast.  i look for him to be a bust.  IMHO

Your description of Leinart sounds like Brady. I know everyone already makes the comparison, but I'm one that thinks it's fair.As for Vince, I think he's a bust. The guy is not a good pocket passer. He's inaccurate on short throws and lacks touch on deep ones. Also, the strange and lazy delivery he has will not fly in the NFL.

Leinart will not have Reggie Bush to bail him out in the NFL. He is a good decision maker and leader but lacks the physical tools to be a star in the NFL. If he lands himself in a good situation...ala Roethlisberger...he might have a decent career.Leinart and Brady = product of the system. Look at how well the Patriots are doing this year without Weis and Romeo.

Vince Young throwing machanics are not very good. He is a great athlete but that will only get you so far in the NFL at the QB position.

Best QBs from the list:

-Brodie Croyle

-Whitehurst (don't know why someone stated he is a DJ Shockley type. He is definitely a pocket passer and very big, strong and accurate)

-Chris Leak

-Vick

-Brady Quinn

-Sam Keller

-Kellen Clemons

Don't know much about the Pac-10 QBs, but I do know Keller is very good.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Don't know which Patriots you are watching but they are 3-3 and in definite danger of missing the playoffs. No way Brady is a "product of the system." Out of the QBs mentioned I think Stanton and Quinn will be the best. Young will prove to be a good QB at the NFL level, I would actually put his potential ahead of where Michael Vick is now. Not as good a runner, but a better passer. Leinart will not live up to the hype and the position where he is drafted.

 

[diesel7982]

Jay Cutler(Vanderbilt) will be a guy who needs to develop a little more physically and watch for a year or two, but will be a starter at the NFL level. Ive been immensely impressed watching him play this season.

 

[nortobc]

The QB who I think is going to be the biggest star out of all of them...Vince Young.  This guy is incredible!  He can do it all...and once he gets to be a little more "refined" he will be a Mcnabb type player in my mind.

As for Leinart...I dont know why people are so high on him.  He is big...slow...average arm...and seems to be a product of a system and great supporting cast.  i look for him to be a bust.  IMHO

Your description of Leinart sounds like Brady. I know everyone already makes the comparison, but I'm one that thinks it's fair.As for Vince, I think he's a bust. The guy is not a good pocket passer. He's inaccurate on short throws and lacks touch on deep ones. Also, the strange and lazy delivery he has will not fly in the NFL.

Leinart will not have Reggie Bush to bail him out in the NFL. He is a good decision maker and leader but lacks the physical tools to be a star in the NFL. If he lands himself in a good situation...ala Roethlisberger...he might have a decent career.Leinart and Brady = product of the system. Look at how well the Patriots are doing this year without Weis and Romeo.

Vince Young throwing machanics are not very good. He is a great athlete but that will only get you so far in the NFL at the QB position.

Best QBs from the list:

-Brodie Croyle

-Whitehurst (don't know why someone stated he is a DJ Shockley type. He is definitely a pocket passer and very big, strong and accurate)

-Chris Leak

-Vick

-Brady Quinn

-Sam Keller

-Kellen Clemons

Don't know much about the Pac-10 QBs, but I do know Keller is very good.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Don't know which Patriots you are watching but they are 3-3 and in definite danger of missing the playoffs. No way Brady is a "product of the system." Out of the QBs mentioned I think Stanton and Quinn will be the best. Young will prove to be a good QB at the NFL level, I would actually put his potential ahead of where Michael Vick is now. Not as good a runner, but a better passer. Leinart will not live up to the hype and the position where he is drafted.

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I claimed that Leinart's and Brady's success should be contributed to the system and players around them. Hence my mentioning of the Pats 3-3 record, no Weis or Romeo and USC's talented offensive players.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Don't know much about the Pac-10 QBs, but I do know Keller is very good.

I follow the Pac 10 closely. There are a bunch of good college QBs in the conference, but none of them look to be great pros.Leinart, obviously has the best chance, and most are familiar with him.

Drew Olson has really raised his game. He's playing at a very high level, under alot of pressure, and has willed UCLA to it's undefeated record. Does his improvement translate to the NFL? Not likely, but his backup, Ben Olson, has NFL measureables. Drew is playing very gritty and making tough throws-- reminds me of Brees at Purdue, but not with an exceptional arm, which Brees had for a college QB. He has a great stat line-- 157 rating, 67% completions, 1600 yds, 15 tds, 3 picks, he's been sacked 10 times and is constantly on the run.

Kellen Clemens came into the season with a better reputation, but he is playing just like Olson. The stat lines are practically the same. Expectations should be about the same for both-- not quite good enough for Sundays. Careful observers thought his performance against USC was better than Leinart's that day, and I agree.

This may seem like the easy way out, but if you watched all these guys, I think you'd agree. Sam Keller is playing just like Olson and Clemens. He also outperformed Leinart against USC, but what he brings in tough hard-nosed leadership, he seems to lack in measureable talent. His numbers will end up better because he has a legit NFL receiver in Hagan.

When talking Pac 10 QBs, you have to remember there's been a bunch of (Leaf, Harrington, Feeley, Akili, McNown) unrealistic expectations for every (Palmer, Plummer, Aikman) player that actually makes it. Anyway, those are the guys worth talking about at this point. There are some high quality backups waiting in the wings.

 

[EBF]

Don't know much about the Pac-10 QBs, but I do know Keller is very good.

I follow the Pac 10 closely. There are a bunch of good college QBs in the conference, but none of them look to be great pros.Leinart, obviously has the best chance, and most are familiar with him.

Drew Olson has really raised his game. He's playing at a very high level, under alot of pressure, and has willed UCLA to it's undefeated record. Does his improvement translate to the NFL? Not likely, but his backup, Ben Olson, has NFL measureables. Drew is playing very gritty and making tough throws-- reminds me of Brees at Purdue, but not with an exceptional arm, which Brees had for a college QB. He has a great stat line-- 157 rating, 67% completions, 1600 yds, 15 tds, 3 picks, he's been sacked 10 times and is constantly on the run.

Kellen Clemens came into the season with a better reputation, but he is playing just like Olson. The stat lines are practically the same. Expectations should be about the same for both-- not quite good enough for Sundays. Careful observers thought his performance against USC was better than Leinart's that day, and I agree.

This may seem like the easy way out, but if you watched all these guys, I think you'd agree. Sam Keller is playing just like Olson and Clemens. He also outperformed Leinart against USC, but what he brings in tough hard-nosed leadership, he seems to lack in measureable talent. His numbers will end up better because he has a legit NFL receiver in Hagan.

When talking Pac 10 QBs, you have to remember there's been a bunch of (Leaf, Harrington, Feeley, Akili, McNown) unrealistic expectations for every (Palmer, Plummer, Aikman) player that actually makes it. Anyway, those are the guys worth talking about at this point. There are some high quality backups waiting in the wings.

Don't forget about Trent Edwards from Stanford. He was a five star recruit out of high school and he makes a nice sleeper for the next level. He has some work to do on reading defenses, but he has good physical skills and a good mental makeup.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Don't forget about Trent Edwards from Stanford. He was a five star recruit out of high school and he makes a nice sleeper for the next level. He has some work to do on reading defenses, but he has good physical skills and a good mental makeup.

Good catch. I don't comment on players I haven't watched extensively and recently, and I haven't seen Edwards this season. His upcoming schedule is BRUTAL, and I will have plenty of chances to see him play. From what I hear, he is no threat to declare for the draft, and he really needs all of next season to develop, which goes along with what you said. Further, he seems to have the best "tangible" NFL qualities of all the Pac 10 QBs above, while the others have great intangibles. I prefer the tangible to the intangible myself.

 

[lod2005]

My Vince Young analysis: a combo of Michael Vick and Aaron Brooks. He will have some spectacular games followed up by incredibly bad games. he will also run around alot and get pummelled into submission thus landing on the injury report repeatedly. Consistency = ZERO. A FFL teams worst nightmare is what he would be at best.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Stars:LeinartCroyle (caveat emptor, though, on the knees)Solid:CutlerWhitehurstVick (will be better NFL QB than his brother, Ron)Vince YoungOmar JacobsEric Ainge (totally sucks at the moment, though)Total busts:ShockleyLeak

 

[Jason Wood]

I've seen several people touting Croyle and I have to ask, "WHY?" Yes, he was a highly touted recruit coming out of high school, but he's torn up not one but BOTH knees in his past, has a quirky delivery, and a frame that doesn't appear equipped to take a pounding. Scouts also say he's attrocious at throwing on the run, yet isn't mobile enough to avoid the rush.I've not seen him play much, mostly highlights, so to those touting him as more than the mid round pick he's projected to be, what do you see that you like so much?

 

[b1leper]

I've seen several people touting Croyle and I have to ask, "WHY?" Yes, he was a highly touted recruit coming out of high school, but he's torn up not one but BOTH knees in his past, has a quirky delivery, and a frame that doesn't appear equipped to take a pounding. Scouts also say he's attrocious at throwing on the run, yet isn't mobile enough to avoid the rush.

I've not seen him play much, mostly highlights, so to those touting him as more than the mid round pick he's projected to be, what do you see that you like so much?

I've seen every game that Croyle has played this year and am usually locked onto #12. Brodie is a complete quaterback with a great arm, good mobility, and fantastic instincts. I'm not sure where the knock on his arm comes from. He can throw with anyone and is very accurate. His completion rate would be great if not for numerous drops by Bama wideouts. I can't believe some scouts say he has mobility problems. This must left over concern about his knees. He is not a running QB but can scramble when he needs to (see 4th quarter vs Ole Miss) and moves extremely well in the pocket. What I like best is that when he scrambles he always keeps his eyes down field looking for guys to break open. He is as accurate on the run as he is dropping back. In fact, Bama rolls him out frequently.I think Brodie's biggest problem with the scouts is that he began the season so far off of the radar. No one outside of the SEC really knew about him. His injury history is a big concern, but many others have come back from knee injuries more significant than his. In fact, he isn't even wearing a knee brace this year. If he can stay healthy, I agree with a previous poster that he can be a real star.

 

[jurb26]

I've seen several people touting Croyle and I have to ask, "WHY?" Yes, he was a highly touted recruit coming out of high school, but he's torn up not one but BOTH knees in his past, has a quirky delivery, and a frame that doesn't appear equipped to take a pounding. Scouts also say he's attrocious at throwing on the run, yet isn't mobile enough to avoid the rush.

I've not seen him play much, mostly highlights, so to those touting him as more than the mid round pick he's projected to be, what do you see that you like so much?

I've seen every game that Croyle has played this year and am usually locked onto #12. Brodie is a complete quaterback with a great arm, good mobility, and fantastic instincts. I'm not sure where the knock on his arm comes from. He can throw with anyone and is very accurate. His completion rate would be great if not for numerous drops by Bama wideouts. I can't believe some scouts say he has mobility problems. This must left over concern about his knees. He is not a running QB but can scramble when he needs to (see 4th quarter vs Ole Miss) and moves extremely well in the pocket. What I like best is that when he scrambles he always keeps his eyes down field looking for guys to break open. He is as accurate on the run as he is dropping back. In fact, Bama rolls him out frequently.I think Brodie's biggest problem with the scouts is that he began the season so far off of the radar. No one outside of the SEC really knew about him. His injury history is a big concern, but many others have come back from knee injuries more significant than his. In fact, he isn't even wearing a knee brace this year. If he can stay healthy, I agree with a previous poster that he can be a real star.

Right on, this guy is very underrated IMO. Flying under the radar, but not for much longer. To the previous posters saying that Young is doing more with less than any other QB in the country. I challenge you to watch Alabama and Croyle play. This is the guy doing the most with the least amount of talent in the country.... and he is doing it in the gauntlet that is known as the SEC, not the patty cake Big 12 (this year). His oline is half of what Texas has and the WR are probably worse. Drops are common place when you watch Bama play.

 

[DonnyT33]

What about Jimmy Clausen? 2009 round one pick one.little comic relief here. But its is being said he is the best QB being recruited ever. Not to shabby. In the few practice clips I have seen he looked like an NFL QB now throwing the ball around.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Right on, this guy is very underrated IMO. Flying under the radar, but not for much longer. To the previous posters saying that Young is doing more with less than any other QB in the country. I challenge you to watch Alabama and Croyle play. This is the guy doing the most with the least amount of talent in the country.... and he is doing it in the gauntlet that is known as the SEC, not the patty cake Big 12 (this year). His oline is half of what Texas has and the WR are probably worse. Drops are common place when you watch Bama play.

No need to challenge me. I am looking forward to seeing Croyle play. He isn't really under the radar right now, because he has been playing great. He was all over ESPN last week. After DeAngelo Williams there's no one I'm more interested in watching.

I did preface my thoughts by saying I don't comment on players I haven't seen. So taking issue with my opinion of what Young is doing "with what" is fine, and I probably should have qualified the comment. I have no personal favorites here. If Croyle is a better prospect than Young in my irrelevant opinion, I will gladly knock Young down a notch.

You make some good points. No doubt Young's 0-line is better and his schedule is easier, but not to this point. They've both played one top 20 school, and Texas played @ Ohio St. Alabama played Florida at home. Croyle's schedule gets much tougher from here. Drops are common in Texas too. Both schools have good backs, but I hear Darby is big time. And Croyle hasn't done more than Young-- 7 less TDs, same yards passing, 400 less yards running, 30 pt lower QB rating... yada yada. I'm looking forward to seeing him play, and I am very open minded. Go Brodie!

 

[daanswr4]

Here's what I think.. some of the guys I haven't seen, but a lot of them I've seen a whole lot of. The rankings are where I think they should get drafted in relation to one another... although that's kinda retarted since not all of them are coming out this year.SeniorsMatt Leinart- We've been beating him up on the message boards, but just look at the stats. For all of you who have been bashing Brady and saying both Brady and Leinart are products of the system, I'd say almost every great quarterback is a product of the system to a large degree. You think Peyton Manning would be so great without Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edge, and the rest of those guys? Get real. Leinart will be a good pro, but I don't think he'll be the best quarterback from this list. That goes to Quinn. He's #2 on my list, and can make an immediate impact after having been in Chow's offense.Brodie Croyle- Been watching this guy since he was a freshman at Alabama. People are top recruits for a reason, and we're finally seeing why he was one. He's got a good arm, average mobility, and is just a great football player. Watch him play, you'll agree. He could stand to add weight... make that he definately needs to add weight. Number 4 prospect on my list.Kellen Clemens- DunnoJay Cutler- DunnoBruce Gradkowski- DunnoReggie McNeal- Haven't seen enough of him to make this too reliable, but don't think he's going to be a good pro QB. Seems like a better WR to me.D.J. Shockley- Another top recruit just getting to show his stuff. This guy has a CANNON of an arm and can run. I personally think he's more like Vick than Vince Young. At least he has normal throwing mechanics. He's had a great year so far. Number 5 prospect on my list. A lot like Quincey Carter except a better football player (Carter went what, round 2?)Brad Smith- Whoever posted he'll make a great WR/Return man was right on the money. This guy is Randel-El parte deux. Not enough size for a pro QB... he's great to play with in NCAA football, though.Charlie Whitehurst- Big, strong guy with a big, strong arm. Having a solid senior year after a terrible junior campaign. Great sophomore year. Can throw the football. Decision making is a bit questionable (might be an understatement with all those picks he's thrown) Good potential to be a pro starter. Number 8 prospect on my list, because he hasn't put up the stats as the other guys and that will hurt his draft status.JuniorsReggie Ball- Too small... doesn't make the best decisions... good college QB but not an NFL starter (could catch on somewhere as a backup)Omar Jacobs- Haven't seen enough of him to put him on my rankings. Board seems to be divided.Chris Leak- Too small to be an NFL qb. It isn't that the passes will get batted down (the guy throws like straight over top of his head somehow) but I just think he'll get beat up. Decent mobility, good arm... should be an NFL backup. Number 9 on list.Tyler Palko- Seem a bit of him... certainly didn't look like the player he's supposed to be against Utah last year in the bowl game. I feel bad for him that Wanny is the new head coach... that guy just sucks the life out of any offense.Jordan Palmer- DunnoTroy Smith- Actually I like this guy a lot from what I've seen. Great mobility, good arm, good awareness and he beat Michigan... and he lost to Penn State so that bumps him up in my book. Can't wait to see him next year with Ginn and those guys back. Would put him tied with Vick for number 6 right now.Marcus Vick- He's having a great year... much better than I expected. Making great decisions, not trying to do too much. Not the same running instincts that Mike has even though he may be as fast... don't think he has as good of an arm as Mike, but he puts MUCH better touch on his passes than Mike does even now. Incredibly accurate. I think he can be a pro starter, but he's still somewhat of a mystery to me. Tech hasn't cut him loose yet (they havent had to). Wait and see on this one but he's number 6 right now on my list. Could move up a lot once I see him in some big games.Jared Zabransky- Dunno... I think the one game I've seen of his was about the worst game of his career.Sam Keller- Havent seen enough of him... Looked ok against USC.Vince Young- I just don't see this guy being a real pro QB. I honestly think he'd make a great WR in the Matt Jones mold (not saying Matt Jones is a great WR yet, but you have so many options to do creative stuff with these guys). Has a strong arm, but isn't accurate... may be coming around in that regard this year (completion percentage is pretty good), but he has had all day to throw the ball. A great runner, huge, strong, fast, but has that wierd delivery that just doesn't produce a pretty ball. Could be great if he learns how to throw the ball. I'm putting him as number 3 on my list, just because if he doesn't work out as a QB, then you have the makings of an All-Pro WR. As strictly a QB, he's much lower.Trent Edwards- DunnoBrady Quinn- Best QB in the country, hands down. Big and strong (the guy is ripped), has a good arm, very accurate, and he's learning how to play the QB position under one of the best coaches in the business. Can make all the throws, reads the defense well, is going to be a GREAT pro QB. He's also pretty mobile. Was a top recruit coming out of high school. Suprises every1 as the number 1 pick in the draft this year if he comes out... but I think he'll stay another year to learn under Charlie, and be the #1 pick after his senior year. I've watched every Irish game this year and he's just been amazing. My #1 QB. Man love for Quinn.Drew Tate- DunnoDrew Stanton- Having an incredible year. Kinda like Young... but a better passer. Good mobility, big, strong. He's got a funky delivery as well though. Putting him at QB #7.Good night.

 

[azcards33]

Here's what I think.. some of the guys I haven't seen, but a lot of them I've seen a whole lot of.  The rankings are where I think they should get drafted in relation to one another... although that's kinda retarted since not all of them are coming out this year.

Seniors

Matt Leinart- We've been beating him up on the message boards, but just look at the stats.  For all of you who have been bashing Brady and saying both Brady and Leinart are products of the system, I'd say almost every great quarterback is a product of the system to a large degree.  You think Peyton Manning would be so great without Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edge, and the rest of those guys?  Get real.  Leinart will be a good pro, but I don't think he'll be the best quarterback from this list.  That goes to Quinn.  He's #2 on my list, and can make an immediate impact after having been in Chow's offense.

I gotta agree with this 100%Imagine putting a young, Peyton Manning on the current 49ers. He'd probably look alot like Rick Mirer, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, etc.

You can't deny that it is much easier for some to succeed based on where (team) they are drafted, than others.

Another example: how successful do you think Tom Brady would have been if he were drafted by the Cleveland Browns?

He might have developed into an adequate NFL starter, but there's no way that he is as successful as he is now

 

[Foosball God]

Imagine putting a young, Peyton Manning on the current 49ers. He'd probably look alot like Rick Mirer, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, etc.

Are you remembering a different Colts team than I am?

 

[Jason Wood]

Imagine putting a young, Peyton Manning on the current 49ers. He'd probably look alot like Rick Mirer, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, etc.

Are you remembering a different Colts team than I am?

Peyton Manning had one of the most successful seasons in league history by a rookie starting QB, and nothing about the Colts suggested that was in the offing. He's a once in a lifetime talent and an unfair litmus test for any young QB.

 

[jurb26]

Right on, this guy is very underrated IMO. Flying under the radar, but not for much longer. To the previous posters saying that Young is doing more with less than any other QB in the country. I challenge you to watch Alabama and Croyle play. This is the guy doing the most with the least amount of talent in the country.... and he is doing it in the gauntlet that is known as the SEC, not the patty cake Big 12 (this year). His oline is half of what Texas has and the WR are probably worse. Drops are common place when you watch Bama play.

No need to challenge me. I am looking forward to seeing Croyle play. He isn't really under the radar right now, because he has been playing great. He was all over ESPN last week. After DeAngelo Williams there's no one I'm more interested in watching.

I did preface my thoughts by saying I don't comment on players I haven't seen. So taking issue with my opinion of what Young is doing "with what" is fine, and I probably should have qualified the comment. I have no personal favorites here. If Croyle is a better prospect than Young in my irrelevant opinion, I will gladly knock Young down a notch.

You make some good points. No doubt Young's 0-line is better and his schedule is easier, but not to this point. They've both played one top 20 school, and Texas played @ Ohio St. Alabama played Florida at home. Croyle's schedule gets much tougher from here. Drops are common in Texas too. Both schools have good backs, but I hear Darby is big time. And Croyle hasn't done more than Young-- 7 less TDs, same yards passing, 400 less yards running, 30 pt lower QB rating... yada yada. I'm looking forward to seeing him play, and I am very open minded. Go Brodie!

There are 3 games still left on the schedule that will likely make or break him at this point. Tenn, LSU and Auburn.

 

[Chaos Commish]

NFL Draft Scout rankings...by projected round (2006-2008 Prospects, only through first five rounds):

First Round

Matt Leinart, USC, 2006

Vince Young, Texas, 2007
Chris Leak, Florida, 2007
Drew Stanton, Michigan State, 2007
Brian Brohm, Louisville, 2008Second Round

Reggie McNeal, Texas A&M, 2006
Omar Jacobs, Bowling Green, 2007
JaMarcus Russell, LSU, 2008
Chad Henne, Michigan, 2008
Kyle Wright, Miami, 2008Third Round

Brad Smith, Missouri, 2006
Marcus Vick, VaTech, 2007
Sam Keller, Arizona State, 2007
Erik Ainge, Tennessee, 2008
Bret Myers, Iowa State, 2008
Rhett Bomar, Oklahoma, 2008Fourth Round

Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo, 2006
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, 2006
Drew Tate, Iowa, 2007
Brady Quinn, Notre Dame, 2007
Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh, 2007Fifth Round

Brodie Croyle, Alabama, 2006
Charlie Whitehurt, Clemson, 2006
Jordan Palmer, UTEP, 2007
Joe Ayoob, California, 2007
Robert Johnson, Arkansas, 2008
Ricky Santos, New Hampshire, 2008
Josh David Booty, USC, 2008

I'm reading more on this topic looking ahead to another weekend. (2)Texas vs. (7)Texas Tech.

Should be a good game to watch both QBs. I quote the above, and bring this thread up again, because Cody Hodges (TT) isn't mentioned by anybody. He's QBing an undefeated top 10 Div 1 school while leading the nation in passing yards, tds, completions and completing over 70% of his passes.

Is he just a product of a system? Something missing? Anybody? Are there any Red Raider fans out there? With three consecutive Big 12 wins, surely somebody has watched him.

Also, if you're one of those that thinks Young is a future WR, try to find the time to watch this game. He isn't. And the opinion that he is is baseless, sorry. It kind of hurts the rest of your opinions from a credibility standpoint, sorry again. No NFL team insiders have mentioned it. No scouting service has mentioned it (that I know of). Young doesn't have WR potential even if a few talking heads have considered it. He is a QB prospect, and nothing else. That's what the scouts are saying. Not me. Sure a few college QBs are playing WR in the NFL, but that has nothing to do with Young's prospects. The college QBs playing WR were never graded as high as Young. He has moved into the #2 spot on most rankings, behind only Leinart.

 

[b1leper]

Right on, this guy is very underrated IMO.  Flying under the radar, but not for much longer.  To the previous posters saying that Young is doing more with less than any other QB in the country.  I challenge you to watch Alabama and Croyle play.  This is the guy doing the most with the least amount of talent in the country.... and he is doing it in the gauntlet that is known as the SEC, not the patty cake Big 12 (this year).  His oline is half of what Texas has and the WR are probably worse.  Drops are common place when you watch Bama play.

No need to challenge me. I am looking forward to seeing Croyle play. He isn't really under the radar right now, because he has been playing great. He was all over ESPN last week. After DeAngelo Williams there's no one I'm more interested in watching.

I did preface my thoughts by saying I don't comment on players I haven't seen. So taking issue with my opinion of what Young is doing "with what" is fine, and I probably should have qualified the comment. I have no personal favorites here. If Croyle is a better prospect than Young in my irrelevant opinion, I will gladly knock Young down a notch.

You make some good points. No doubt Young's 0-line is better and his schedule is easier, but not to this point. They've both played one top 20 school, and Texas played @ Ohio St. Alabama played Florida at home. Croyle's schedule gets much tougher from here. Drops are common in Texas too. Both schools have good backs, but I hear Darby is big time. And Croyle hasn't done more than Young-- 7 less TDs, same yards passing, 400 less yards running, 30 pt lower QB rating... yada yada. I'm looking forward to seeing him play, and I am very open minded. Go Brodie!

There are 3 games still left on the schedule that will likely make or break him at this point. Tenn, LSU and Auburn.

I really wish you hadn't said "make or break." Let's stay away from break, OK? Especially with Prothro's injury .RTR

 

[jurb26]

I really wish you hadn't said "make or break." Let's stay away from break, OK? Especially with Prothro's injury .

RTR

I'm sorry, the pun was unintended. :(

 

[EBF]

Imagine putting a young, Peyton Manning on the current 49ers. He'd probably look alot like Rick Mirer, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, etc.

Are you remembering a different Colts team than I am?

Peyton Manning had one of the most successful seasons in league history by a rookie starting QB, and nothing about the Colts suggested that was in the offing. He's a once in a lifetime talent and an unfair litmus test for any young QB.

*cough* Roethlisberger *cough*

 

[diesel7982]

NFL Draft Scout rankings...by projected round (2006-2008 Prospects, only through first five rounds):

First Round

Matt Leinart, USC, 2006

Vince Young, Texas, 2007
Chris Leak, Florida, 2007
Drew Stanton, Michigan State, 2007
Brian Brohm, Louisville, 2008Second Round

Reggie McNeal, Texas A&M, 2006
Omar Jacobs, Bowling Green, 2007
JaMarcus Russell, LSU, 2008
Chad Henne, Michigan, 2008
Kyle Wright, Miami, 2008Third Round

Brad Smith, Missouri, 2006
Marcus Vick, VaTech, 2007
Sam Keller, Arizona State, 2007
Erik Ainge, Tennessee, 2008
Bret Myers, Iowa State, 2008
Rhett Bomar, Oklahoma, 2008Fourth Round

Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo, 2006
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, 2006
Drew Tate, Iowa, 2007
Brady Quinn, Notre Dame, 2007
Tyler Palko, Pittsburgh, 2007Fifth Round

Brodie Croyle, Alabama, 2006
Charlie Whitehurt, Clemson, 2006
Jordan Palmer, UTEP, 2007
Joe Ayoob, California, 2007
Robert Johnson, Arkansas, 2008
Ricky Santos, New Hampshire, 2008
Josh David Booty, USC, 2008

I'm reading more on this topic looking ahead to another weekend. (2)Texas vs. (7)Texas Tech.

Should be a good game to watch both QBs. I quote the above, and bring this thread up again, because Cody Hodges (TT) isn't mentioned by anybody. He's QBing an undefeated top 10 Div 1 school while leading the nation in passing yards, tds, completions and completing over 70% of his passes.

Is he just a product of a system? Something missing? Anybody? Are there any Red Raider fans out there? With three consecutive Big 12 wins, surely somebody has watched him.

Also, if you're one of those that thinks Young is a future WR, try to find the time to watch this game. He isn't. And the opinion that he is is baseless, sorry. It kind of hurts the rest of your opinions from a credibility standpoint, sorry again. No NFL team insiders have mentioned it. No scouting service has mentioned it (that I know of). Young doesn't have WR potential even if a few talking heads have considered it. He is a QB prospect, and nothing else. That's what the scouts are saying. Not me. Sure a few college QBs are playing WR in the NFL, but that has nothing to do with Young's prospects. The college QBs playing WR were never graded as high as Young. He has moved into the #2 spot on most rankings, behind only Leinart.

Hes just as good as Kliff Klingsbury and BJ Symons.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm reading more on this topic looking ahead to another weekend.

(2)Texas vs. (7)Texas Tech.

Should be a good game to watch both QBs. I quote the above, and bring this thread up again, because Cody Hodges (TT) isn't mentioned by anybody. He's QBing an undefeated top 10 Div 1 school while leading the nation in passing yards, tds, completions and completing over 70% of his passes.

Is he just a product of a system? Something missing? Anybody? Are there any Red Raider fans out there? With three consecutive Big 12 wins, surely somebody has watched him.

Also, if you're one of those that thinks Young is a future WR, try to find the time to watch this game. He isn't. And the opinion that he is is baseless, sorry. It kind of hurts the rest of your opinions from a credibility standpoint, sorry again. No NFL team insiders have mentioned it. No scouting service has mentioned it (that I know of). Young doesn't have WR potential even if a few talking heads have considered it. He is a QB prospect, and nothing else. That's what the scouts are saying. Not me. Sure a few college QBs are playing WR in the NFL, but that has nothing to do with Young's prospects. The college QBs playing WR were never graded as high as Young. He has moved into the #2 spot on most rankings, behind only Leinart.

Hey Captain,Cody Hodges is DEFINITELY a product of that system and NFL scouts aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt considering the numbers put up by Kinsbury and Symons before him. Remember Timmy Chang is the all-time leader in passing yards, and the top 10 is by and large a laundry list of guys who had minimal impact on the NFL.

As to Vince Young. While I respect your divergent opinion, to say that scouts aren't looking at Vince Young as an NFL passer is simply untrue.

From Mel Kiper's NFL Chat today:

Stan (Phoenix): Hey, Mel. Someone said that Brady Quinn is a better pro prospect than Matt Leinart. How would you rate Leinart, Quinn, V. Young, and the other premier upper classmen qbs?

Mel Kiper: I think the senior of this group is Leinart, with Quinn and Young as juniors...Leinart will be the No.1 pick this year. I think Quinn and Young are vying for the top spot from the junior class and the 2007 draft.

rich: Mel, if you could rate Marcus Vick on your board now, where we he fall if he was in this years draft

Mel Kiper: I would just rate him with the juniors...

Vince Young, then Brady Quinn are 1 and 1a. Next would be Drew Stanton from Michigan St., then Marcus Vick would be 4th, followed by Omar Jacobs and Jordan Palmer. Those are the ratings among juniors.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm reading more on this topic looking ahead to another weekend.

(2)Texas vs. (7)Texas Tech.

Should be a good game to watch both QBs. I quote the above, and bring this thread up again, because Cody Hodges (TT) isn't mentioned by anybody. He's QBing an undefeated top 10 Div 1 school while leading the nation in passing yards, tds, completions and completing over 70% of his passes.

Is he just a product of a system? Something missing? Anybody? Are there any Red Raider fans out there? With three consecutive Big 12 wins, surely somebody has watched him.

Also, if you're one of those that thinks Young is a future WR, try to find the time to watch this game. He isn't. And the opinion that he is is baseless, sorry. It kind of hurts the rest of your opinions from a credibility standpoint, sorry again. No NFL team insiders have mentioned it. No scouting service has mentioned it (that I know of). Young doesn't have WR potential even if a few talking heads have considered it. He is a QB prospect, and nothing else. That's what the scouts are saying. Not me. Sure a few college QBs are playing WR in the NFL, but that has nothing to do with Young's prospects. The college QBs playing WR were never graded as high as Young. He has moved into the #2 spot on most rankings, behind only Leinart.

Hey Captain,Cody Hodges is DEFINITELY a product of that system and NFL scouts aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt considering the numbers put up by Kinsbury and Symons before him. Remember Timmy Chang is the all-time leader in passing yards, and the top 10 is by and large a laundry list of guys who had minimal impact on the NFL.

As to Vince Young. While I respect your divergent opinion, to say that scouts aren't looking at Vince Young as an NFL passer is simply untrue.

From Mel Kiper's NFL Chat today:

Stan (Phoenix): Hey, Mel. Someone said that Brady Quinn is a better pro prospect than Matt Leinart. How would you rate Leinart, Quinn, V. Young, and the other premier upper classmen qbs?

Mel Kiper: I think the senior of this group is Leinart, with Quinn and Young as juniors...Leinart will be the No.1 pick this year. I think Quinn and Young are vying for the top spot from the junior class and the 2007 draft.

rich: Mel, if you could rate Marcus Vick on your board now, where we he fall if he was in this years draft

Mel Kiper: I would just rate him with the juniors...

Vince Young, then Brady Quinn are 1 and 1a. Next would be Drew Stanton from Michigan St., then Marcus Vick would be 4th, followed by Omar Jacobs and Jordan Palmer. Those are the ratings among juniors.

If I'm reading this right, then we are in agreement again. I am saying Young is not a "WR" prospect. Others have commented that they think he may go the way of Matt Jones. I don't think it's even a remote possibility (and Young himself has said as much, fwiw). I love the guy as a future NFL QB. If asked to wager on who from the current crop of Juniors and Seniors has the best shot to make it big in the NFL, I would choose Young-- from what I have seen to date. I could certainly be wrong, and his NFL situation will have as much to do with it as anything, but he's such a natural in the pocket, and so composed under pressure. Combine that with his athleticism, surprising accuracy this year, and I see someone with great potential, growing by leaps and bounds-- fixing his flaws and displaying great upside.I'm usually a little bit of a contrarian when someone is overhyped (Leinart/Maroney), but mostly I am a doubter because the next level usually requires top shelf physical ability. I think Young has IT, whereas Leinart better really be Brady-like or he may not make it.

Young won't talk about staying in school or declaring for the draft. It depends on how this season shakes out. I think he'd be wise to keep improving in college for a year, but if he wins a national title, beats Leinart in a bowl game... well, NFL here comes the next McNabb for some rowdy group of fans to boo on draft day.