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Ravens Fan in ICU after fight (1 Viewer)

T

Tom Skerritt

Footballguy
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-ravens-fight-20161003-story.html

Report I read said that the 55yo Ravens fan threw a bottle at the two Raiders fans. And that is how the scuffle started. 

One of the Raiders fans then pushed the guy down, and then he hit his head on the pavement. 

Need a ruling here. If the injured guy starts the fight by throwing something, shouldn't he expect to get some retaliation?

Not saying he deserves to be brain dead, but #### happens if you're gonna start a fight. 

 
Very sad but it sounds like he started the fight.  Honestly who throws a bottle at other people.  Hope he is okay.

 
Scott Smith, 30, of Mount Vernon, N.Y., and Andrew Nappi, 31, of Eastchester, N.Y., were each charged with first- and second-degree assault.
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Seems overboard. I know they could have just walked away, but first degree assault after someone chucks a bottle at you? And the injury was caused by one of the guys shoving him. Not like they took a tire iron to his skull.

 
If he dies I nominate him for this year's Darwin Award.

Throwing a bottle...over a football game...at Raiders fans...

 
Tom Skerritt said:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-ravens-fight-20161003-story.html

Report I read said that the 55yo Ravens fan threw a bottle at the two Raiders fans. And that is how the scuffle started. 

One of the Raiders fans then pushed the guy down, and then he hit his head on the pavement. 

Need a ruling here. If the injured guy starts the fight by throwing something, shouldn't he expect to get some retaliation?

Not saying he deserves to be brain dead, but #### happens if you're gonna start a fight. 
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The second bolded answers the first, IMO. People who do dumb stuff often put themselves in position for bad things to happen :shrug:  

 
Before I clicked on the thread I thought to myself "I wonder if the Ravens were playing the Raiders?"

That aside, as an adult if you get physical with another adult you are accepting the risk of death.

 
Just the result of missing with the bottle.  If you are going to use a weapon, you better connect or you are asking to be beat to a pulp/death.  

 
"We're just left in shock that something this stupid could happen, and so senseless," Susan Bauer said. "I don't know who these people are. I don't know why this happened. I just hope they realize they have altered all of our lives beyond anything that we could have imagined."
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Umm, your husband started it... that's why this happened.  Extremely unfortunate outcome, but you have to realize the potential side effects of throwing a bottle at someone and hitting them in the head.

 
Spin said:
Umm, your husband started it... that's why this happened.  Extremely unfortunate outcome, but you have to realize the potential side effects of throwing a bottle at someone and hitting them in the head.
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i didn't think it sounded that clear according to the article.  Sounded like an argument was happening before the throw and that the bottle wasn't the glass kind. 

 
Spin said:
Umm, your husband started it... that's why this happened.  Extremely unfortunate outcome, but you have to realize the potential side effects of throwing a bottle at someone and hitting them in the head.
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Well yeah... but from the article " Only plastic and aluminum bottles are sold at the stadium. "

If it was a plastic bottle...

 
Spin said:
Umm, your husband started it... that's why this happened.  Extremely unfortunate outcome, but you have to realize the potential side effects of throwing a bottle at someone and hitting them in the head.
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I agree.  I know this is very traumatic for the family but sounds like the husband is 100% at fault here.  I am interested in what the guys are going to be charged with and whatbkind of fine/restitution payment will be due

.

 
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If they were in very close proximity and the attack was reactionary they may get off with simple assault.  If they actually had to traverse a fair amount of space/people to attack him they are going to be a lot more culpable.

Meh, the bottle comment is from the guy that attacked him.  I'm not going to put too much into that anyway.  I think these guys are ####ed.

 
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I thought it was ok to throw bottles at opposing fans as long as they are either aluminum or plastic?

 
coyote5 said:
Well yeah... but from the article " Only plastic and aluminum bottles are sold at the stadium. "

If it was a plastic bottle...
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Go to a NFL game and throw a plastic bottle at someone's head after arguing with them, and then try to explain to them that it's OK because it's only plastic, and report back here.

I get that it's not as potentially damaging as if it was glass or aluminum, but come on.  Throw anything at someone's head after a close NFL game, where alcohol was most definitely involved on both sides, and you're practically begging them for an escalated response.

 
jonessed said:
If they were in very close proximity and the attack was reactionary they may get off with simple assault.  If they actually had to traverse a fair amount of space/people to attack him they are going to be a lot more culpable.

Meh, the bottle comment is from the guy that attacked him.  I'm not going to put too much into that anyway.  I think these guys are ####ed.
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Nappi told police that the men argued, and Bauer threw a bottle that hit Smith in the head, police said in charging documents. Only plastic and aluminum bottles are sold at the stadium.

Nappi told police he punched Bauer in the face, police said. Bauer's wife, Sharon, told police Smith shoved Bauer to the ground and he hit his head.

Scott Smith of Mt. Vernon, NY., left, and Andrew Nappi of Eastchester, NY, are suspected in the fight at Ravens-Raiders game of Sunday Oct. 3.

Bauer was knocked unconscious.

A witness, Gary Greggs, confirmed the account to officers, police wrote in charging documents. Greggs could not be reached Monday.
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Seems a witness verified that's exactly what happened.  They were yelling at each other, one of them threw a bottle and hit the other one in the head, then got punched and shoved to the ground.  He escalated the situation when he threw the bottle.

 
Spin said:
Go to a NFL game and throw a plastic bottle at someone's head after arguing with them, and then try to explain to them that it's OK because it's only plastic, and report back here.

I get that it's not as potentially damaging as if it was glass or aluminum, but come on.  Throw anything at someone's head after a close NFL game, where alcohol was most definitely involved on both sides, and you're practically begging them for an escalated response.
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I didn't say it was a smart idea for him to throw a bottle, plastic or otherwise.  Just because he apparently escalated the situation with a couple meatheads (where all parties possibly had unknown amounts to drink) doesn't make their response appropriate.  Too much unclear on how it all went down.  

 
Joe Summer said:
Do we know for sure that he threw the bottle?
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Don`t know all the facts but to me it is hard to believe a 55 year old guy who is a long time season ticket holder and was sitting with his wife would throw a beer bottle at two young guys in the stands.

 
Spin said:
Seems a witness verified that's exactly what happened.  They were yelling at each other, one of them threw a bottle and hit the other one in the head, then got punched and shoved to the ground.  He escalated the situation when he threw the bottle.
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Well, they saw fit to charge him with 1st degree assault so obviously we are missing some pieces with regard to what happened.  He'll likely end up with manslaughter if the victim dies

 
Da Guru said:
Don`t know all the facts but to me it is hard to believe a 55 year old guy who is a long time season ticket holder and was sitting with his wife would throw a beer bottle at two young guys in the stands.
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They're Raiders fans from New York.  Either one of those on their own might drive someone to throw a bottle.

 
Not sure a punch and shoving to the ground is an equal response to a plastic bottle being thrown. 

 
Bucky86 said:
Not sure a punch and shoving to the ground is an equal response to a plastic bottle being thrown. 
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[devil'sadvocate]

so getting hit in the head with a bottle, plastic or otherwise, is NOT a reason to "go" ?

[/devil'sadvocate]

 
Quint said:
[devil'sadvocate]

so getting hit in the head with a bottle, plastic or otherwise, is NOT a reason to "go" ?

[/devil'sadvocate]
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No. Unless he was cornered in some way he should have a duty to retreat before he and his buddy jump a guy. This was more about ego.

 
IANAL but isn't there something about responding with appropriate force.. or something. you can't say "well, the guy poked me in the chest with a finger so i lopped his head off with a circular saw" and claim self defense

 
Bucky86 said:
Not sure a punch and shoving to the ground is an equal response to a plastic bottle being thrown. 
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If you throw anything at anyone, you should be prepared for an ensuing fight :shrug:

Now, the two dudes that were arrested, that is their account - I'm sure there are a lot of witnesses, so the truth should prevail.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
Comatose Ravens Fan is also a former US Marine.
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Comatose Ravens Fan is the name of my band.

FYI - I liken attending a football game like riding the NY subway system.  Head down or forward, blank stare, headphones.  Nothing around you exists.  GB Directv meaning I never have to attend in person.

 
Quint said:
[devil'sadvocate]

so getting hit in the head with a bottle, plastic or otherwise, is NOT a reason to "go" ?

[/devil'sadvocate]
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Not once you're out of high school.  These guys are both in their 30s, the other guy in his mid 50s.  It seems unlikely that they were in fear for their own safety.

 
mr. furley said:
IANAL but isn't there something about responding with appropriate force.. or something. you can't say "well, the guy poked me in the chest with a finger so i lopped his head off with a circular saw" and claim self defense
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There is but a push seems to be appropriate force after being hit in the head with a thrown object.  What if the bottle had caused a cerebral hemorrhage in the person who was hit?

 
It appears some of you might not understand this, so I'll help those who don't out:

If you throw a bottle (plastic, glass, aluminum, etc.) or most other objects at another person, you may be in a situation that requires you to physically engage with that person. 

It really is that simple :shrug:

 
Can I give a hypothetical for those that don't think being hit with a bottle warrants a violent response:

Suppose instead of throwing a bottle at someone, you spit on them. Now, spitting obviously isn't going to cause much physical damage, so should you the individual who was spit on just walk away in this situation as well? 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Can I give a hypothetical for those that don't think being hit with a bottle warrants a violent response:

Suppose instead of throwing a bottle at someone, you spit on them. Now, spitting obviously isn't going to cause much physical damage, so should you the individual who was spit on just walk away in this situation as well? 
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Yes?

I mean, if you ask yourself "is this worth killing a man over?" and the answer is no, you probably shouldn't respond in such a fashion that you end up killing a man.

 
CBusAlex said:
Yes?

I mean, if you ask yourself "is this worth killing a man over?" and the answer is no, you probably shouldn't respond in such a fashion that you end up killing a man.
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There is always an unknown variable for each individual in these situations. Most actions have reactions, so if you are the initiator, you need to be prepared for that unknown variable.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Can I give a hypothetical for those that don't think being hit with a bottle warrants a violent response:

Suppose instead of throwing a bottle at someone, you spit on them. Now, spitting obviously isn't going to cause much physical damage, so should you the individual who was spit on just walk away in this situation as well? 
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Throwing a plastic bottle and spitting are worlds apart.  Spitting on someone is a much more personal, visceral, disrespectful, confrontational attack than throwing, hypothetically, an empty plastic bottle.

 
coyote5 said:
Throwing a plastic bottle and spitting are worlds apart.  Spitting on someone is a much more personal, visceral, disrespectful, confrontational attack than throwing, hypothetically, an empty plastic bottle.
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fantasycurse42 said:
There is always an unknown variable for each individual in these situations. Most actions have reactions, so if you are the initiator, you need to be prepared for that unknown variable.  
Click to expand...

 
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