Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ravens make offer for Boldin (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NorrisB
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
If Tony G is worth a second, wouldn't Heap be worth a third?
thecardiackid
Footballguy
Interesting.
So, the 1.25 (26?) and a TE who while talented, cannot stay on the field.
Decent offer I guess, but Quan is pushin' 30 and Pope isn't that bad
- AZ just doesn't really utilize the TE in their gameplan much. Maybe that changes w/ a better 'hands' guy, but I'd think Zona would prefer a player on D or starter quality elsewhere.
At least this (if true) sets 'market' value.
So, the 1.25 (26?) and a TE who while talented, cannot stay on the field.
Decent offer I guess, but Quan is pushin' 30 and Pope isn't that bad
- AZ just doesn't really utilize the TE in their gameplan much. Maybe that changes w/ a better 'hands' guy, but I'd think Zona would prefer a player on D or starter quality elsewhere.At least this (if true) sets 'market' value.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Baltimore sun reporter is speculating that the Ravens could offer McGahee as part of a deal.
Is McGahee and his contract really appealing at all?
Donnybrook
Footballguy
You tell me. I'm too lazy to look up McGahee's contract
Although I believe that the Cardinals are asking way to much for Boldin in general, this is a low ball offer. It's almost like the Ravens are trying to pawn off all their problems (a unhealthy Todd Heap as well as an overpriced McGahee). The TE position isn't really a problem for the Cardinals, they don't need to involve a TE in their passing game, they just had three 1,000 yard receivers. I'd rather have a 1st and 3rd then a 1st and those two players.
i don't know, that's why i was asking. also too lazy too look.
PranksterJD
Footballguy
3/8/2007: Signed a seven-year, $40.12 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and a $6.5 million roster bonus in the second year. 2009: $620,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus), 2010: $3.6 million, 2011: $6 million, 2012: $6.5 million, 2013: $7.2 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charges: $4.87 million (2009), $6.35 million (2010), $8.75 million (2011), $9.25 million (2012), $7.5 million (2013).
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Not a bad first offer. Let's see how firm both teams are. I do think it's a lowball offer but nothing so low it's insulting.
It looks like trading or cutting Heap puts over $10 M in dead money on the cap. Even if he does not play, it may be better to keep Heap on the roster to avoid the cap hit. Then again, if the Ravens need to spend to get to the salary floor, getting rid of Heap could help and they don't actually have to spend any extra money.
dongarisano
Footballguy
That is way too low of an offer for Boldin. The Ravens are going to need to up the ante.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Can't imagine this gets the deal done. Heap is undeniably talented when healthy, but given his age and inability to play at his peak level, I have to think Arizona would rather bring in a stud youngster at the position. If this deal clinches it, I'm going to be bummed. Interestingly, this means Harbaugh seemingly is ready to give L.J. Smith major run in BAL though.
waybackwhen
Footballguy
I thought I read the other day that McGahee's contract was virtually untradeable. Something like 11mil. goes against the cap number, whether he stays, gets traded, or is dropped. I believe there is some trouble in there with an escalated signing bonus that goes against the cap.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Can't imagine the cards wanting either Heap or McGahee. Both would be salary dumps for the Ravens and don't really add any extra value at their contracts. Ray Rice and the 1st would be a fair offer that might get it done imo.
the Ravens are in a situation where Suggs is tagged and has to have a deal in place prior to the season(doesn't have to, but for moral sake, it is imperative for the Ravens to get him taken care of)
they like Boldin...alot...but don't want to give up multiple pix AND need to adjust some cap space to be able to offer 'Quan and Suggs both long term deals
and NFL trading can mirror FF trades...seriously, for everyone poo-pooing the offer---do you guys really put the offer out there first that gets "accepted" right away...or do you put a "feeler" offer out there, to create a dialog, so that you and your trade partner negotiate to a middle ground?
they like Boldin...alot...but don't want to give up multiple pix AND need to adjust some cap space to be able to offer 'Quan and Suggs both long term deals
and NFL trading can mirror FF trades...seriously, for everyone poo-pooing the offer---do you guys really put the offer out there first that gets "accepted" right away...or do you put a "feeler" offer out there, to create a dialog, so that you and your trade partner negotiate to a middle ground?
Last edited by a moderator:
3 posts up from yours
foxco
Footballguy
That's offering too much IMO.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Heap is one of the most brittle TEs in the NFL, although he has skill the odds are slim of Heap making it through the year unscathed.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
And fwiw, even if the offer is accepted, it doesn't mean the trade goes through. Remember TO a few years back? I assume that's why you put the popcorn.And yeah, it's interesting that once again the Eagles and Ravens are after the same WR. Will the Eagles get the WR again?...seriously, for everyone poo-pooing the offer---do you guys really put the offer out there first that gets "accepted" right away...or do you put a "feeler" offer out there, to create a dialog, so that you and your trade partner negotiate to a middle ground?
CommuterMan
Footballguy
2008 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 35 403 11.5 30 3 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 2007 Baltimore Ravens 6 6 23 239 10.4 37 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2006 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 73 765 10.5 30 6 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2005 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 75 855 11.4 48 7 -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 2004 Baltimore Ravens 6 5 27 303 11.2 37 3 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2003 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 57 693 12.2 33T 3 3 21 7.0 9 0 1 0 2002 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 68 836 12.3 43 6 4 38 9.5 15 0 -- -- 2001 Baltimore Ravens 12 6 16 206 12.9 24T 1 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 TOTAL 374 4,300 11.5 48 30 7 59 8.4 15 0 5 3 Heap has played in all 16 games for 5 of his 8 seasons in the league. Last year the Ravens chose to keep him on the line for added protection for Flacco so his numbers were down significantly over 2006 & 2005 when he had his best years. I do not think that his career indicates that he is 'brittle'. He has played through numerous injuries during seasons and only when a major injury happens does he miss time.He would be an upgrade to Pope in the Cardinals offense and running underneath patterns in the middle while Fitz and Breaston draw the DBs deep would lead to big plays as Heap is still faster than many of the LBs in the league who would be covering him.
Phurfur
Footballguy
You cannot even mention these two together. Todd Heap is trash and he starting his ninth season. There is no value here.
Gopher State
Footballguy
IMO sees fair, and I think it will take #1 and Rice to get er done
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think #1 and Rice is a fair deal. Hard for the Ravens to argue Rice is a franchise caliber back given the way they [didn't] use him last year, and if you're a Ravens fan you figure you can add another RB in the draft especially if you're set with using LeRon as your short yardage and goal line horse.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
He'll immediately regret that decision.Jason Wood said:
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Heap and McGahee are garbage
players that are past their prime.
Arizona would be foolish to do this.
I would counter with this years' 1st and a 2010 2nd.
players that are past their prime.
Arizona would be foolish to do this.
I would counter with this years' 1st and a 2010 2nd.
massraider
Footballguy
If the Ravens aren't willing to trade their 3rd back and a late 1st for Boldin, they don't deserve Boldin.Only on a fantasy football board would that trade seem like too much. God, Rice is overrated round here.I agree that it's fair, but I highly doubt the Ravens would trade Rice.Gopher State said:IMO sees fair, and I think it will take #1 and Rice to get er donefoxco said:
Phurfur
Footballguy
That is a good way to look at it, so would I.
foxco
Footballguy
Boldin will be 29 this year and rarely plays a full season. He's great but injury prone and hasn't had the greatest attitude the past year. So how many dominant years does Boldin have left and can you count on him for 16 games a season?If the Ravens aren't willing to trade their 3rd back and a late 1st for Boldin, they don't deserve Boldin.Only on a fantasy football board would that trade seem like too much. God, Rice is overrated round here.I agree that it's fair, but I highly doubt the Ravens would trade Rice.Gopher State said:IMO sees fair, and I think it will take #1 and Rice to get er donefoxco said:
massraider
Footballguy
If you are a team trading for Boldin, you are trying to win now. So age really doesn't mean too much to me. His attitude wasn't great, and yet he still played great, and came back from a tough injury. Boldin might have been unhappy, but unlike a Braylon Edwards, it didn't affect him on the field. I don't know how many dominant years he has left, but it's a safe bet that he'll have better years than any WR the Ravens could take with their late first. Take a look at draft history. See how many of those late 1st rounders you would take over 3 stud years from Boldin.
As a Rice Dynasty owner so would I.
foxco
Footballguy
But how many games will Boldin miss in those 3 stud years? He's had 2 full seasons and missed time in 4 others. I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, but if you're in win now, you'd probably want a guy you think will be on the field and doesn't come with baggage.
I don't pay too much attention to what the board "thinks is fair"---it's about the ducketts, fellas!the problem the Ravens are having in making a qualifying offer is that a long term deal for Suggs is 1-B to this move for Boldin that would have to be put together by SaturdayIf the Ravens aren't willing to trade their 3rd back and a late 1st for Boldin, they don't deserve Boldin.Only on a fantasy football board would that trade seem like too much. God, Rice is overrated round here.I agree that it's fair, but I highly doubt the Ravens would trade Rice.Gopher State said:IMO sees fair, and I think it will take #1 and Rice to get er donefoxco said:
moving Ray Rice does not come close to freeing up the money required to allow both to happen (sign Boldin and Suggs to $$$ long term contracts)
***edit***doesn't look like a McGahee deal could possibly be done before June 1, otherwise $11M cap hit...and I'm not sure taking the hit combined w/losing 3(albeit lower) draft picks that it cost to get McGahee is something the Ravens want to do at this point
Last edited by a moderator:
massraider
Footballguy
I agree the injury history is a concern. But last year his injury wasn't something that was chronic, like a knee, or hamstrings, it was a busted jaw. No big deal there. As to the baggage, I ain't seeing it. He'll get a new deal from his new team, and that's the only concern. Like I said, he had the baggae last year, and played great. Baggage to me is beating your baby momma, drugs, arrests, something like that. At any rate, I am kinda playing devil's advocate as well. I doubt a trade for him happens. The Cards were in the big game lst year, and re-signed Warner. A team in that position doesn't trade a Boldin. So I think thye are asking for the moon, so they can go to Boldin and say, "We tried!" Then gear up for one more run. If the Cards had their way, I think Boldin plays for them for one more year, then they move him. Not saying a trade won't happen, but I think the Cards really, really don't want to do it.
foxco
Footballguy
I think we kind of agree here more or less - The Cards are in as much of a win now mode as anyone with Warner being so old, so it's in their best interest to field the best team. Be interesting to see if anything does happen.As for injuries, the jaw wasn't a big deal but he also missed time in the playoffs with a hammy (and was screaming at the OC to get back in). That said, Boldin's awesome, a fiery competitor, but he's a physical WR who could break down early and has had many injuries in his six years.
massraider
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Seriously? I would say you over value draft picks based on that statement. Known talent > Unproven talent....in most cases.
First, not enough for Boldin.second, the cardinals under Haley did not use the TE Whisenhunt likes to use the TE based on his Pitt days, and he is now calling plays.FWIWthecardiackid said:Interesting.So, the 1.25 (26?) and a TE who while talented, cannot stay on the field.Decent offer I guess, but Quan is pushin' 30 and Pope isn't that bad
The_Man
Footballguy
Here's my insight from a homer point of view.
McGahee's contract makes him untradeable. Not from the Cards' perspective, as his yearly salaries aren't THAT huge. But from the Ravens' perspective, McGahee would cost about $8 million more vs. the cap this year if traded then he will cost to keep. McGahee is looking like one of Ozzie's worst deals, but he's not so bad that they'll eat an $8 million cap hit to get rid of him. And besides, the Ravens are only about $1.5M under the cap right now, with rookie signings to come.
The Ravens know they need to acquire a WR, but they are very leery of picking one in the first round. They've never been successful, and they've been talking over the last month about WRs having the highest bust percentage -- by far -- of any position in the first round. If it comes down to rolling the dice on a guy like Hakeem Nicks, or giving up the pick you would use on Nicks to grab Boldin, they would grab Boldin in a second. There are a couple of questions, though -- is a first rounder enough, or do they have to throw in a player? And, can they pay Boldin?
Heap doesn't see eye-to-eye with the Ravens' new coaches and vice-versa. I don't know why, but they just haven't clicked. Heap never compained, but he hated being used as a blocking TE almost exclusively last year. And he's not very good at it, either. Everyone thought Heap would turn into Antonio Gates under Cam Cameron's system but it never happened. That being said, Heap is a good soldier, an Arizona native, and still very talented -- look at the numbers he put up in Baltimore vs. the numbers that every other Ravens WR has put up since 2000. If he ever went to a team that had quality offensive personnel around him (like AZ), he could be outstanding. So I think it would make sense for both sides to include Heap in a deal.
Getting rid of Heap frees up some cap room for Boldin. So would cutting CB Frank Walker. They could probably do enough cutting/restructuring to get Boldin under the cap. But then the question becomes, can the Ravens sign him long-term? And, as noted above, if they give a new guy a long-term deal before they take care of Suggs -- who after 5 years of being a standout and great team guy has been rewarded by getting the franchise tag twice in a row -- it is going to cause huge turmoil within the locker room.
I think this situation will come down to the Ravens being on the clock on Saturday. If a non-WR that they really like (especially Pettigrew, but also maybe Malagua) is still on the board, they will draft that player. If those guys are gone, and they're looking at Britt or Nicks, then I think they trade the #1 and Heap to Arizona. But that worries me what's going to happen long-term with both Suggs and Boldin. They absolutely have to sign Suggs to a long-term deal (which would also open up a lot of cap room) before doing a long-term deal with Boldin.
McGahee's contract makes him untradeable. Not from the Cards' perspective, as his yearly salaries aren't THAT huge. But from the Ravens' perspective, McGahee would cost about $8 million more vs. the cap this year if traded then he will cost to keep. McGahee is looking like one of Ozzie's worst deals, but he's not so bad that they'll eat an $8 million cap hit to get rid of him. And besides, the Ravens are only about $1.5M under the cap right now, with rookie signings to come.
The Ravens know they need to acquire a WR, but they are very leery of picking one in the first round. They've never been successful, and they've been talking over the last month about WRs having the highest bust percentage -- by far -- of any position in the first round. If it comes down to rolling the dice on a guy like Hakeem Nicks, or giving up the pick you would use on Nicks to grab Boldin, they would grab Boldin in a second. There are a couple of questions, though -- is a first rounder enough, or do they have to throw in a player? And, can they pay Boldin?
Heap doesn't see eye-to-eye with the Ravens' new coaches and vice-versa. I don't know why, but they just haven't clicked. Heap never compained, but he hated being used as a blocking TE almost exclusively last year. And he's not very good at it, either. Everyone thought Heap would turn into Antonio Gates under Cam Cameron's system but it never happened. That being said, Heap is a good soldier, an Arizona native, and still very talented -- look at the numbers he put up in Baltimore vs. the numbers that every other Ravens WR has put up since 2000. If he ever went to a team that had quality offensive personnel around him (like AZ), he could be outstanding. So I think it would make sense for both sides to include Heap in a deal.
Getting rid of Heap frees up some cap room for Boldin. So would cutting CB Frank Walker. They could probably do enough cutting/restructuring to get Boldin under the cap. But then the question becomes, can the Ravens sign him long-term? And, as noted above, if they give a new guy a long-term deal before they take care of Suggs -- who after 5 years of being a standout and great team guy has been rewarded by getting the franchise tag twice in a row -- it is going to cause huge turmoil within the locker room.
I think this situation will come down to the Ravens being on the clock on Saturday. If a non-WR that they really like (especially Pettigrew, but also maybe Malagua) is still on the board, they will draft that player. If those guys are gone, and they're looking at Britt or Nicks, then I think they trade the #1 and Heap to Arizona. But that worries me what's going to happen long-term with both Suggs and Boldin. They absolutely have to sign Suggs to a long-term deal (which would also open up a lot of cap room) before doing a long-term deal with Boldin.
Day Drinker
Footballguy
As a Cardinal homer, I don't want any less than a 1 and a 3 for Boldin, and preferably, I want a 1st round pick higher than what Baltimore can offer so the Cardinals have a shot at Moreno, who I am pretty sure the Eagles are targetting at #21. The Cards are holding all the cards...hehehe. Lame I know, but true. If they don't get the type of offer they want on draft day when the trades and picks start flying off the board, then keep Boldin and just take what the draft gives you at pick #31, where there always seems to be value that falls. No need to get crazy when you have the talent to win it all and can just sit back and add depth for the future.
That being said, why wouldn't the JETS give up their 1st + for Boldin? Seems like a good trade partner to me.
That being said, why wouldn't the JETS give up their 1st + for Boldin? Seems like a good trade partner to me.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
:sehorn:
