Oh I agree 100% that the numbers mean nothing come game time. It's not about being the better team, it's about being the better team that day. I know what Accuscore does, but you have to agree that there is just a little difference between plugging #'s into a computer and having that spit out who wins vs. actually having them on the field. I don't know much about Accuscore specifically, but I find most simulators are biased toward offensive teams. It all depends on how things are adjusted for defenses.
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Ravens @ Patriots - AFC Championship Game (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
Not fishing.
I do believe that NE needs to win the turnover battle to win the game. That's just the way I think their defense operates. You can disagree, that's fine. Saying the need to be +2 may be pushing it, but I just don't know if +1 is going to be enough. Most people think it's Baltimore that needs to win the Turnover battle, I just don't think they rely on the turnovers as much as New England does, so I think it's more important for NE to win.
The refs is fishing a little, I'll admit, in terms of late hits on Brady and ect. But what I'm really talking about is "inadvertant" whistles, or ruling a play one way and it can't be overturned because its not "conclusive". Not saying they'd do it on purpose, but there have been some real game-changing plays that have been affected by this. The disaster in Det/Nor game with the fumble, shouldn't have been a td. The fumble in the Giants/GB game. A couple of spots in the Det/Nor game. These plays even out during a season (at least I would hope they would) but in a single game, especially when I think they are so close in terms of ability, these calls can make a huge difference if one team get's the benefit of the doubt more often than the other. It could happen in favor of Baltimore, or in favor of New England.
You personally think that the Pats should win, and the Ravens could win.
I think the Ravens should win, and the Pats could win. Difference of opinion is all.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
it's called Accuscore for a reason.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Ravens 2011 opponents offensive scoring rankings: 21;21;32;13;10;28;24;21;23;18;11;30;28;5;30;18;
Ravens 2011 opponents offensive scoring average per game: 19.3
Denver Broncos ranked 25th in scoring offense averaged 19.3 PPG
Ravens 2011 opponents offensive scoring average per game: 19.3
Denver Broncos ranked 25th in scoring offense averaged 19.3 PPG
AmosMoses
Footballguy
#2 is def possible.I think the Ravens are going to need turnovers to beat the Pats though. Pats are going to score on the Ravens. Baltimore will need some Ed Reed style pick-6 action to even stuff up. I'm expecting what I originally said, that Ravens will get in trouble with borderline penalties on a few drives that will lead to TDs.
AmosMoses
Footballguy
Kraft couldn't dig up Walt Coleman??
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
lol I love how people are starting the ref excuses even before they play the game. 
I think it's already common knowledge that all calls against the ravens are bogus -- you don't need to remind us.
I think it's already common knowledge that all calls against the ravens are bogus -- you don't need to remind us.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
You're correct in that the turnover battle could be a huge factor.I was referring to the quoted post where AmosMoses really expects the refs to give Brady all these BS calls. There are bad calls in every game, granted, but contrary to popular belief, Brady does not get most of them.
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The_Man
Footballguy
PPG rankings of defenses BAL has played:
1, 1, 2, 4, 4*, 5, 5, 7, 8, 9, 9 | 11, 17, 20, 22 | 26, 28
Games vs. top 5 scoring defenses: 7 (7-0)
Games vs. top 10 scoring defenses: 11
Games vs. bottom 10 scoring defenses: 3
PPG rankings of defenses NE has played:
1, 6, 6, 10 | 12, 16, 20, 20, 21, 22 | 24, 24*, 25, 28, 29, 30, 30
Games vs. top 5 scoring defenses: 1 (0-1)
Games vs. top 10 scoring defenses: 4
Games vs. bottom 10 scoring defenses: 7
* playoff game
Of course some of the Pats' opponents are in the bottom 10 in part because the Pats scored heavily against them. But Baltimore's offense is a lot better than people give them credit for. I'm not sure where the idea that New England is going to hold them to 20 points comes from.
On the other hand, the only time all year that New England played one of the NFL's truly strong defenses, they were beaten in what is widely acknowledged as their worst offensive game of the year.
Just one more reason I think this game is a complete toss-up.
1, 1, 2, 4, 4*, 5, 5, 7, 8, 9, 9 | 11, 17, 20, 22 | 26, 28
Games vs. top 5 scoring defenses: 7 (7-0)
Games vs. top 10 scoring defenses: 11
Games vs. bottom 10 scoring defenses: 3
PPG rankings of defenses NE has played:
1, 6, 6, 10 | 12, 16, 20, 20, 21, 22 | 24, 24*, 25, 28, 29, 30, 30
Games vs. top 5 scoring defenses: 1 (0-1)
Games vs. top 10 scoring defenses: 4
Games vs. bottom 10 scoring defenses: 7
* playoff game
Of course some of the Pats' opponents are in the bottom 10 in part because the Pats scored heavily against them. But Baltimore's offense is a lot better than people give them credit for. I'm not sure where the idea that New England is going to hold them to 20 points comes from.
On the other hand, the only time all year that New England played one of the NFL's truly strong defenses, they were beaten in what is widely acknowledged as their worst offensive game of the year.
Just one more reason I think this game is a complete toss-up.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, you are listing the wrong rankings. You should have listed the rankings of the OFFENSES the Ravens faced, not the defenses. The best offense they faced (on the road BTW) was Sand Diego . . . and they got killed.
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Man I hate both of these teams. The Ravens are the lesser of two evils here though. So sick of Boston winning every friggin championship.
But what is there to get excited about with the Ravens? I am just burned out on them, they are the exact same team every year. Flacco is terrible and every year people argue whether or not he should get credit for winning yada yada yada. Cam Cameron runs one of the most predictable and stale offenses in the league as well. And the defense is good but not at a historically elite level like they once were. Finally, they are the kings of winning ugly unimpressive games. They win and leave you wanting more every time.
I will say though after awhile you can't say they are just getting lucky when they win these ugly games over and over. They play to the level of their competition, it may not be aesthetically pleasing but they get it done.
Go... Ravens. I guess.
But what is there to get excited about with the Ravens? I am just burned out on them, they are the exact same team every year. Flacco is terrible and every year people argue whether or not he should get credit for winning yada yada yada. Cam Cameron runs one of the most predictable and stale offenses in the league as well. And the defense is good but not at a historically elite level like they once were. Finally, they are the kings of winning ugly unimpressive games. They win and leave you wanting more every time.
I will say though after awhile you can't say they are just getting lucky when they win these ugly games over and over. They play to the level of their competition, it may not be aesthetically pleasing but they get it done.
Go... Ravens. I guess.
No he's not. He's trying to show how Baltimore's offense is better than the numbers indicate due to the schedule they had to play. They "only" averaged 23.4 ppg this season, but 7 of thier games were against the top 5 scoring defenses. Adn 11 against the top 10.On the other hand, he's saying NE's offense is inflated because they only faced 1 top 5 defense and 4 top 10. Re-reading it, I'm not sure if you aren't understanding what he's saying or you just think it's meaningless.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well, there is no doubt that the Patriots had an easy schedule this year, and it is no coincidence that their tough offensive stretch back in October was when they played good teams/defenses - Dallas, Pittsburgh and the Giants.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
As already stated, rankings really don't mean a whole heck of a lot. The difference between the #3 team in scoring (NE) and the #5 team in scoring (CAR and SD) was 107 points scored. The difference in #10 in scoring (HOU) and #27 (TB) was 106 points.The other thing to consider is that the AFC North fielded 4 Top 10 defenses. I would suggest that that may partly be due to the fact that the division as a whole did not have strong offenses. That alone would dilute the rankings for teams in the division since they play each other so much (6 games a year against the other teams).
roadkill1292
Footballguy
In the Ravens thread, we all thought that Baltimore had an easy schedule this year, too. Turns out that they've beaten some good teams (7-0 now against teams that made the playoffs), lost to some bad teams and lost really bad to some not so bad teams. I watch 'em every week and I have no idea what's going to happen so kudos to anyone in this thread who does.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Well, it didn't take long for me to break my promise - and I ain't even tuned up yet. I get the "let's all throw twisted stats at it & see who will win" stuff - gives people things to talk about. But there are so many variables in this game that I wouldn't bet a nickle of either Bob Kraft's or Steve Bisciotti's on ANY outcome.I DO think that it's more on how the Ravens play than the Pats. Peaks and valleys, you know.Yeah I agreed with you that rankings don't mean a whole much. But you said he posted the wrong rankings. I was just saying that he didn't. 106 points is nearly a TD a game, or roughly 33% of what an average team scored, so I'm not sure why you don't think that's a big difference. And except for Cleveland, I would say the afc north was pretty average as an offense (ranked 12, 18, 21, and 30) so I don't think their defensive stats were too influenced by that. But anyway, I think we both can agree that discussing the rankings could go on all day and in the end we both can come up with arguments why one team is actually better/worse than they are ranked.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The average team scored 355 points this year. CIN 344. PIT 325. CLE 218.
And the average AFC North team excluding cleveland scored 349. Cleveland was exceptionally bad. So unless your arguments is that all 4 AFC North teams have inflated defensive rankings because Cleveland was bad, I don't think it holds any water.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Appearing on Sirius XM Radio Thursday morning, NFL Films guru Greg Cosell described the Ravens' offense as "incredibly predictable."
"Watching their tape is like watching the 1960s," he continued. "One receiver to each side. Isolation routes. No bunch sets or rub routes." Added Cosell, "I've never seen a group of receivers so unable to beat man coverage."
"Watching their tape is like watching the 1960s," he continued. "One receiver to each side. Isolation routes. No bunch sets or rub routes." Added Cosell, "I've never seen a group of receivers so unable to beat man coverage."
Yet they still averaged more points than nearly 2/3rd the league.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I'd be curious to see how much of that was due to the defense getting them short fields.
That would be interesting to know. I can't think of any way to measure that though other then finding every single scoring drive and seeing their average drive length. On the other hand, using yardage, they outgained half the league.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Since you asked . . .The Ravens had 5 return TDs this year = 35 points.In terms of scoring drives that started inside the opponents 40 yard line, they scored 6 TD (42 points) and 5 FG (15 points).So the defense had a big role in 92 points of the 378 points they scored on the season (there obviously were other times where they forced turnovers that resulted in points, but the distance was enough to give more credit to the offense). So roughly 25% of their points were attributable in large part to the defense.I have no idea how that compares to the rest of the league, but for comparison . . .The Pats scored on 4 returns = 28 points. Using the same benchmark (drives starting inside the 40), they scored 5 TD (35 points) and 2 FG (6 points). Total = 69 points out of 513 points (13%) with a big impact from the defense.
Great Info. So I calculate roughly a 10% difference between the two teams.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
From commenter Anonymous1 on the AFCCG Preview post at Football Outsiders:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous1
I dug into the play-by-plays of these two teams and this is what I found.
Baltimore's offense has scored a decent amount of points, but my eyes tell me that their defense might actually have been a big factor. On top of that, I've also had the impression that Baltimore's offense is reliant on deep passes. Ray, Ray, chuck it, so to speak. To test these theories, I went through the drive log of every Baltimore game checking for the following:
50+ yard, 7+ play TD drives
-50 yard TD drives and defensive TDs
50+ yard, -7 play TD drives
7 is somewhat arbitrary, but it felt right to me and ends up being very useful after crunching everything. On top of that, I checked for 40+/- FG drives, thinking that a FG drive of less than 40 yards is less a credit to the offense and more the defense and special teams. I included missed FGs into these numbers to get the most accurate picture of how the offense performed. This gave me 5 categories:
Long TD drives, Defense credited TDs, Big play TD drives and Long/Short FG drives. Here are the results for Baltimore:
Baltimore
Long TD: 17
Defensive: 11
Big Play: 11
Long FG: 21
Short FG: 13
Interesting, but not informative without anything to relate it to, so here is NE:
Patriots
Long TD: 38
Defensive: 7
Big Play: 15
Long FG: 23
Short FG: 7
Now, it really isn't fair to only compare offenses to NE (or GB/NO) so we need another one. I settled on Pitt since they are similar in efficiency to Baltimore, per DVOA, as well as having an offense geared around big plays.
Pittsburgh
Long TD: 21
Defensive: 6
Big Play: 12
Long FG: 29
Short FG: 4
Pitt's problems in generating turnovers really jumps off the page when you view it from this perspective. Only 10 short scoring drives all season.
Based on this exercise, it appears that my suspicions were correct. Despite trailing NE 26-34 in total takeaways, Baltimore had 4 more defense related TDs. The FG numbers are even more dramatic. 33% of Baltimore's scoring drives were less than half the length of the field, neither Pitt or NE was over 15%.
Big plays accounted for 40% of Baltimore's long TD scores, compared to 36% for Pitt and 28% for NE. The distribution further illuminates Baltimore's reliance on the big play. Here are the plays-per-short-drive for all three teams:
Baltimore
3, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 1, 3, 4, 3
Pitt
1, 6, 2, 5, 1, 6, 3, 1, 5, 2, 4, 3
Patriots
6, 1, 4, 5, 6, 5, 4, 6, 6, 1, 4, 5, 2, 6, 5
As I wrote before, the 7 play mark was arbitrary, but still illuminating. Baltimore didn't have a single 6 play 50+ yard TD drive all season, and only one lasting 5 plays. By contrast, Pitt and NE (especially NE) have more even distributions that would alter the numbers considerably had I chosen a different seperation point.
Even further, I randomly chose a couple 7 or 8 play "longer" TD drives to see if a big play still made an appearance, ignoring NE due to their obvious lack of reliance. Of the three chosen for Baltimore, two had plays of 35+ yards. By comparison, the only big plays in the Pitt selections were a fake punt and a 26 yarder that is specifically denoted "pass short" in the PBP.
So what does all this mean for Sunday?
The odds of Baltimore cracking the 20 point barrier without short fields or big plays is minimal. This is why this game ultimately comes down to pressure. NE is going to use their Marshall Faulk circa 2001 plan to take away Rice, while having a deep safety at all times to stop the long ball. Whether Flacco can make the intermediate plays is all a matter of time, because there will be receivers open.
On the flip side, NE isn't going to rely on the run too much to end up with 3 RB fumbles, so Baltimore going to need to get their turnovers via interceptions. Receiver fumbles are also possible, of course, though less likely to lead to short fields since the pass must have already been completed. This receiver corps is too good for Brady too have time and still feel the need to force the issue.
Pressure. The QB hit the least walks off victorious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous1
I dug into the play-by-plays of these two teams and this is what I found.
Baltimore's offense has scored a decent amount of points, but my eyes tell me that their defense might actually have been a big factor. On top of that, I've also had the impression that Baltimore's offense is reliant on deep passes. Ray, Ray, chuck it, so to speak. To test these theories, I went through the drive log of every Baltimore game checking for the following:
50+ yard, 7+ play TD drives
-50 yard TD drives and defensive TDs
50+ yard, -7 play TD drives
7 is somewhat arbitrary, but it felt right to me and ends up being very useful after crunching everything. On top of that, I checked for 40+/- FG drives, thinking that a FG drive of less than 40 yards is less a credit to the offense and more the defense and special teams. I included missed FGs into these numbers to get the most accurate picture of how the offense performed. This gave me 5 categories:
Long TD drives, Defense credited TDs, Big play TD drives and Long/Short FG drives. Here are the results for Baltimore:
Baltimore
Long TD: 17
Defensive: 11
Big Play: 11
Long FG: 21
Short FG: 13
Interesting, but not informative without anything to relate it to, so here is NE:
Patriots
Long TD: 38
Defensive: 7
Big Play: 15
Long FG: 23
Short FG: 7
Now, it really isn't fair to only compare offenses to NE (or GB/NO) so we need another one. I settled on Pitt since they are similar in efficiency to Baltimore, per DVOA, as well as having an offense geared around big plays.
Pittsburgh
Long TD: 21
Defensive: 6
Big Play: 12
Long FG: 29
Short FG: 4
Pitt's problems in generating turnovers really jumps off the page when you view it from this perspective. Only 10 short scoring drives all season.
Based on this exercise, it appears that my suspicions were correct. Despite trailing NE 26-34 in total takeaways, Baltimore had 4 more defense related TDs. The FG numbers are even more dramatic. 33% of Baltimore's scoring drives were less than half the length of the field, neither Pitt or NE was over 15%.
Big plays accounted for 40% of Baltimore's long TD scores, compared to 36% for Pitt and 28% for NE. The distribution further illuminates Baltimore's reliance on the big play. Here are the plays-per-short-drive for all three teams:
Baltimore
3, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 1, 3, 4, 3
Pitt
1, 6, 2, 5, 1, 6, 3, 1, 5, 2, 4, 3
Patriots
6, 1, 4, 5, 6, 5, 4, 6, 6, 1, 4, 5, 2, 6, 5
As I wrote before, the 7 play mark was arbitrary, but still illuminating. Baltimore didn't have a single 6 play 50+ yard TD drive all season, and only one lasting 5 plays. By contrast, Pitt and NE (especially NE) have more even distributions that would alter the numbers considerably had I chosen a different seperation point.
Even further, I randomly chose a couple 7 or 8 play "longer" TD drives to see if a big play still made an appearance, ignoring NE due to their obvious lack of reliance. Of the three chosen for Baltimore, two had plays of 35+ yards. By comparison, the only big plays in the Pitt selections were a fake punt and a 26 yarder that is specifically denoted "pass short" in the PBP.
So what does all this mean for Sunday?
The odds of Baltimore cracking the 20 point barrier without short fields or big plays is minimal. This is why this game ultimately comes down to pressure. NE is going to use their Marshall Faulk circa 2001 plan to take away Rice, while having a deep safety at all times to stop the long ball. Whether Flacco can make the intermediate plays is all a matter of time, because there will be receivers open.
On the flip side, NE isn't going to rely on the run too much to end up with 3 RB fumbles, so Baltimore going to need to get their turnovers via interceptions. Receiver fumbles are also possible, of course, though less likely to lead to short fields since the pass must have already been completed. This receiver corps is too good for Brady too have time and still feel the need to force the issue.
Pressure. The QB hit the least walks off victorious.
Dr. Gobbler
Footballguy
Does anyone really think that the Ravens defense doesn't come out and completely destroy the Patriots? I mean come on, the only mismatch is Gronk and Brady is not going to have enough time to let Gronk build up a head of steam and the Ravens will gameplan for that. Ngata and Suggs are going to eat Brady alive. You want to do quick slants to Welker? Welker is going to get his bell rung.
Cmon guys!! How do you watch so much football and not know the troof!
Cmon guys!! How do you watch so much football and not know the troof!
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
possibly a couple people.
munchkin
Footballguy
Old and over the hill. CBS catches Ray, Ray snoozing on the sidelines, Reed changing his Depends and Suggs wheeling around his oxygen tanks. That ship has sailed.....Pats light up Flacco; he is taken from the field in the fetal position...No chance...Pats big in this one....38---9
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
programming alert :
America's Game - 2001 Patriots on nfl network right now.
they just did the tuck game.
America's Game - 2001 Patriots on nfl network right now.
they just did the tuck game.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is exactly why the Ravens should be the favorite. The team that hits home runs is almost always more successful in playoffs than the team that strings together hits.Almost always.
I used to work for Bisciotti back in the mid 90s, good dude who smoked mad amounts of weed'Uruk-Hai said:'roadkill1292 said:
AmosMoses
Footballguy
Not excuses from me. I have no rooting interest here. That's just what I'm expecting.lol I love how people are starting the ref excuses even before they play the game.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Met him at the ACC tourney in Atlanta a few years ago and he seemed like a good guy. He lit a cigar in a non-smoking hotel bar and the hotel folks fell all over themselves bringing ashtrays to his table, where his buddies also lit up. Not one person complained, though we unwashed masses still went outside to smoke. I'm sure he dropped a penny or two to cover the "damage". Dude must've had some serious acne problems when he was a teen, as his face is crazy-pockmarked.In any case, as a Ravens fan, I couldn't ask for a better owner.I used to work for Bisciotti back in the mid 90s, good dude who smoked mad amounts of weed'Uruk-Hai said:'roadkill1292 said:
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/20/10-things-to-know-for-friday-night-from-nbc-sportstalk/
florio expects baltimore to play dirty and accept penalties to try and knock brady out of the game.
wouldn't surprise me.
florio expects baltimore to play dirty and accept penalties to try and knock brady out of the game.
wouldn't surprise me.
Only way they can keep it close, Hoyer is still better than Flacco though and if they knock him out Mallet is at worst on par with Flacco.
Run It Up
Footballguy
As many others have said before, Pats played one of the toughest schedules in 2010-11 and finished with the best record, their team has gotten better since then. Gonna be a great game.
If the Pats can keep the turnover ratio in their favor this will be a blow out. Love Ray Rice and the Ravens D, but I wouldnt trust flacco with a preseason game, were gonna be seeing 50 yd PA passes to Boldin and Torrey Smith in the 2nd half or the 1st QTR.
If the Pats can keep the turnover ratio in their favor this will be a blow out. Love Ray Rice and the Ravens D, but I wouldnt trust flacco with a preseason game, were gonna be seeing 50 yd PA passes to Boldin and Torrey Smith in the 2nd half or the 1st QTR.
Fensalk
Footballguy
Record of past 12 Super Bowl champions against playoff teams in the regular season:45: Packers 3-344: Saints 3-143: Steelers 4-442: Giants 1-541: Colts 3-140: Steelers 2-439: Patriots 5-138: Patriots 5-037: Buccaneers 4-236: Patriots 2-335: Ravens 1-234: Rams 0-2Notes:1. 5/12 had losing records versus playoff teams.2. 5/12 had winning records versus playoff teams.3. Only 1 of the past 4 Super Bowl champions had a winning record versus playoff teams.Conclusion:Looking at how playoff teams fared against other playoff teams in the regular season seems to tell us nothing.'Ghost Rider said:
Fensalk
Footballguy
I still think it comes down to this. The Patriots excel at the game of field position. They will pin you back behind your own 20 all day. They will stick you at your own 5 yards line, give up a 50 yard drive, and watch you punt. Teams that match up well against the Patriots are those that can sustain long 80+ yard drives. The Ravens are noticeably poor at sustaining long drives. This is a poor matchup for the Ravens. They will need to create turnovers in Patriots' territory, something the Patriots' offense doesn't typically do.
Patriots win.
Patriots win.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I just want to say that there was a lot of smack talk and speculation in this thread, but this game turned out to be about exactly as expected by many.
I hope balt fans don't lose faith as this was basically a coin flip, and balt is pretty clearly top 2 in the conference.
there have been times when the pats haven't gotten it done in the past few years, but I've never lost faith, and I hope balt fans don't lose faith in what's obviously a pretty good team.
kind of reminds me of when jordan was dominating the nba, and so may good teams/players were just second best.
GG baltimore, and I really mean that!!
I hope balt fans don't lose faith as this was basically a coin flip, and balt is pretty clearly top 2 in the conference.
there have been times when the pats haven't gotten it done in the past few years, but I've never lost faith, and I hope balt fans don't lose faith in what's obviously a pretty good team.
kind of reminds me of when jordan was dominating the nba, and so may good teams/players were just second best.
GG baltimore, and I really mean that!!
What I learned/observed from the Balt/NE game:1) NE's defense played fantastic. I still wouldn't call them good, but they definitely rose to the occassion when needed (break up of Evans pass in end zone and holding the Ravens to a FG after the woodhead kickoff fumble). And I was totally wrong about them needing to win the Turnover battle. 2) These 2 teams are pretty damn even, and perhaps I was wrong when I said I though Baltimore should have been the favorite (not vegas but the more likely to win favorite), but those who thought the Pats would just roll in this game were dead wrong. 3) Accuscore may have gotten the winner right, but they were dead wrong in their 69.9% prediction. No way does New England win 70 out of 100 games against Baltimore. 4) Unfortunately Cundiff is going to take a lot of heat for missing that kick (and deservedly so) and Evans too for "relaxing" in the end zone and letting that ball get stripped away. But what's going to get lost was the absolutely horrid play calling by Cam Cameron. 3rd and 3 from the fringe of FG range and you call a draw from the shotgun? Come on, I get the run call, they were having success with it, but if you're going to run, do what's been working and do it from under center. The chances of you losing yards on that play greatly diminish and you at least have a shot at a game tying fg. 5) Say what you want about Flacco, but he deserved to win that game. Sure he had that one int, but that was a great one handed pick by Spikes and I'll bet more often than not that's just a incomplete and not an interception. And I know this may be heresy in a Pats thread, but he looked more like Brady than Brady did.6) I get the strange feeling that this was the last we see of Reed and Lewis. I hope I'm wrong because they are both great players still capable of playing at pro-bowl levels but I felt like they left everything out there knowing this would be there last hurrah.7) I hope Gronkowksi is healthy for the superbowl, and I know he came back to play and initial word is that he's fine, but I just get a feeling that he'll be limited at best. I don't want to use the dreaded "H" word but that was my initial thought when I saw that replay. Hope I'm wrong because he's one hell of a player.All in all, I still think Baltimore was and is the better team. But I can't and won't argue if someone claims the reverse. It's pretty damn close between these teams. And I hope the superbowl proves to be as great a game as this one was. Congratulations to all the Pats fans out there (but being from NY I'm rooting against you).
John Bender
Footballguy
I believe Lewis said without equivocation that he would be back next year, after the game.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Confirmed (radio interview I heard this morning here in Baltimore). Some of us Ravens observers think that this isn't necessarily a great thing.
parrot
Footballguy
I wasn't being serious either.
Can never be sure on these things.
I'd like to point out that my projection was pretty damn close though/ 
Reasoning? You think its just time they move on? Or do you believe they have a capable player waiting in the wings that needs the snaps to get better?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
There are no other LBs currently on the roster who can play the position better, IMO, but Ray appears to have lost more than a step in pass coverage. I'm a little worried about him resisting a diminished role in a disruptive manner. That's not easy for me to say because of how great he's been for 16 years.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I haven't heard anyone criticize Harbaugh's horrendous decision to kick the field goal at fourth and 1 for the three yard line early in the second quarter.
Just an indefensible decision. There is no argument whatsoever in that situation, when a conversion gives you a first and goal within the five against a relatively weak defense. You go for it without hesitation. There's a pretty good chance that the call cost his team four points and a place in the Super Bowl.
Just an indefensible decision. There is no argument whatsoever in that situation, when a conversion gives you a first and goal within the five against a relatively weak defense. You go for it without hesitation. There's a pretty good chance that the call cost his team four points and a place in the Super Bowl.
The_Man
Footballguy
I had no problem with it. The Ravens have been very poor in short yardage all year - last week they were stuffed at the goal line by the Texans, and this week Wilfork and the Pats shoved the Ravens around up front.
Harbaugh's coaching had them in position to win, or at worst tie, the game in the final seconds. What about Bellichick's decision to kick the FG on the opening drive of the second half on 4th-and-1 from the Ravens 6?
Harbaugh's coaching had them in position to win, or at worst tie, the game in the final seconds. What about Bellichick's decision to kick the FG on the opening drive of the second half on 4th-and-1 from the Ravens 6?
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