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Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce....uh oh (1 Viewer)

Baltimore's offense is going to STRUGGLE this year if they can't find more options in the passing game. Losing Pitta and Boldin are far more worrisome to me than Pierce.
Exactly this. Folks, Pitta and Boldin had 261 targets last year combined. That's a huge number to replace. It was 18 more than the combo of Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. 35 more than Randall Cobb and James Jones! Was everyone expecting Jacoby Jones and Ed Dickson to suddenly turn into Miles Austin and Jason Witten this season?

I'd be more worried about what this means for Rice's production if (a) he wasn't such a great pass-catcher out of the backfield and (b) the Ravens' defense (last night notwithstanding) wasn't capable of keeping most games close. Rice will get his. Maybe Pierce will get his, too, but if so, it'll be out of a larger RB pie. Because what are the Ravens' other options at this point?
Wow, I'll admit I hadn't realized their targets were so high last year. Looks like Marlon Brown has some potential down the road, but considering what they needed to replace and Torrey Smith's general volatility, you really have to question Newsome on letting Boldin go over a couple million.
Yeah that was pretty dumb. Newsome didn't know he'd get Marlon Brown either. Brown could be the savior. Got out of position a couple times last night, but I think Jones injury might open the door for more PT and make the Ravens better because of it. I know this may sound ludicrous, but based on what I saw last night, Brown could challenge for the number 1 spot for rookie WR's this year. The targets might just be there. I only regret I didn't get him in any leagues.

 
I'm actually more concerned as a Bernard Pierce owner. Not sure how many games they'll need him to salt away a big lead. Other than giving Rice a breather and the occasional red zone look, not sure what value he will have going forward. He's not a receiving back, so I'd expect Rice to be on the field more out of necessity. If Ed Dickson is really that bad, the Ravens need to figure out how to play Rice more, not less. Stokely/Dickson/Clark looked awful.
I think this should concern Rice owners as well. The recieving corp looks like a huge step down in talent from last year. And Flacco does not look the part of a $20 million QB. Some of passes were well off target and he had one that was purely a foolish decision that should have been picked, as well as the pick 6 that went for naught. This Ravens offense is sputtering and the scoring chances for Rice may be affected, although I agree with others that his value in PPR leagues will remain stable, and his bedrock for his fantasy value.

 
Looked to me like Pierce was in there a lot last night. I think he got in there the second series so it wasn't to give Rice a break either. Looks to have the makings of an RBBC type situation here.
This is called "We only have one game to analyze so let's overanalyze the heck out of it."

 
Looked to me like Pierce was in there a lot last night. I think he got in there the second series so it wasn't to give Rice a break either. Looks to have the makings of an RBBC type situation here.
This is called "We only have one game to analyze so let's overanalyze the heck out of it."
We actually have 10 data points to analyze. Pierce carried the ball 78 times (38%) to Rices 126 over the course of 9 games (2nd half) last year. This isn't new.

 
--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.

 
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I own both of them and was a bit worried when it looked like they were switching series early in the game. However, i was comforted somewhat to see Rice come in for the GL carry. And he also got the vast majority of passing situation uses and passing targets. It looks to me like a 65/35 or 60/40 breakdown with most GL work and receiving work going to Rice. If this helps keep him healthy, it may be a good thing in the long run. It would be great to see Rice get 350 carries and 100 looks, but probably not the best way to keep a RB healthy. The final breakdown was about what you would expect and should allow Rice to remain a top 10 back in both formats.

 
--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.
Just doing quick math---Doesnt that still put Rice at 65% of the snaps?

 
--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.
Just doing quick math---Doesnt that still put Rice at 65% of the snaps?
Assuming neither of the 3rd string and beyond RBs saw the field, that would put Rice at about 62% of the snaps, Pierce at 38%. The reason some of the above percentages don't add up to 100% is because Allen would see a handful of snaps at times last year. But yes, 38% would be the most he's ever seen the field in comparison to Rice, aside from the Week 17 outlier.

IMO, Pierce could make for a very solid flex in plus match-ups, but may be too inconsistent to ever count on.

 
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Significant lol. Not like we haven't seen this every year, and yet Rice still finishes top 10.

Rice was good for 22 pts last night in ppr. Nothing to see here folks.
He DID put up those points but I don't think it is as easy to brush off as you are saying. Honestly, Rice was one Wes Welker "gift fumble" away from being absolutely irrelevant last night in non-ppr.

In ppr, he's still getting his but for the first time, I see the chinks in the armor with Rice. I think he has the potential to lay a few duds this year, depending on the situations of the game and we usually don't see that from top 10 RBs (usually they find ways to get theres).
As weak an argument as take away [insert RB]'s big run and he only averaged 3.7 ypc.
I'm not one to play the what if game but in a forum like this, it is not always easy to say things in a "this is reality" way because people have wide arrays of perception about what their reality is.

But, simpler put; As I said, he DID get his points and he likely will continue to in PPR but if you are a non-ppr'er, you should consider what you just saw because when you draft a RB as a top 10 or so, you don't like what you saw last night. He wasn't the typical guy that gets run a lot and accumulates yards in chunks on long, sustained drives. THe team, as a whole, does not look like one that is playing to run three times inside the five. The team did not, over the course of the wentire game, demonstrate an ability to do the things you want to see out of a top 10 selection.

Yes, we can say if this and if that (if flies had machine guns, frogs wouldn't F#$@ with them) but in the most simplest way put, I highly doubt that any significant percent of people who drafted in the first round this year are going to wake up on Tuesday and say "I feel just as good about Rice as I do had I drafted Calvin, Shady, TRICH, Charles, Spiller, Morris, etc. It is just simply different because all these other players are going to get their points in the ways we expect but Rice doesn't appear that he will.

 
I'm with the not too worried crowd.

More concerned that Oher may be out and that the offense seems to be depending on Brandon Stokley and Dallas Clark to keep the chains moving. Their depth on offense is pretty bad which is going to limit TD's.

Rice is going to catch a crap load of passes if last night is any indication.

 
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.

 
Looked to me like Pierce was in there a lot last night. I think he got in there the second series so it wasn't to give Rice a break either. Looks to have the makings of an RBBC type situation here.
yes agreed, almost like a split it looked to me very sneaky and not good for RICE imo for top 5 stats. I did like the 8 catches... 12 carries 8 catches= 20 touches x16 is still 320 touches which is actually low for him but it wouldn't be something that would be Terrible although I do think we saw to much pierce. 16-17 carries a game for rice with 5-8 catches a game is perfect

 
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.
Huh? His ADP is consistently in the top 5.

 
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Rice's ceiling is capped no matter which way you look at it. I still have no doubt that he'll finish top 10 in PPR barring injury, but it's a timeshare. The only surprisingly thing here is that some Rice owners weren't aware that Pierce's increasing relevancy would carry over from the 2nd half of last year into this year.

I'm going to give it some time before drawing any solid conclusions, but the fact the Pierce saw close to 40% of the snaps in a game where BAL was playing catch-up for essentially an entire half is a good sign for his owners.

 
--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.
Just doing quick math---Doesnt that still put Rice at 65% of the snaps?
Assuming neither of the 3rd string and beyond RBs saw the field, that would put Rice at about 62% of the snaps, Pierce at 38%. The reason some of the above percentages don't add up to 100% is because Allen would see a handful of snaps at times last year. But yes, 38% would be the most he's ever seen the field in comparison to Rice, aside from the Week 17 outlier.

IMO, Pierce could make for a very solid flex in plus match-ups, but may be too inconsistent to ever count on.
He could also eat into Rice's numbers enough to hurt owners who paid a first round pick for him. That's the real issue I think.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.

 
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.

 
As a Pierce owner who doesn't own Rice, I still see Pierce as a RB4 with potential to be a RB3 if things go well. The only way Pierce would be startable, is if Rice went down, then he'd be borderline RB1. For now, he's still just a lottery ticket.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.

 
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
If Pierce actually did something I would be somewhat near what you want this to be.

One guy did well for FFB and scored 20 point in PPR

The other had 2

This entire topic should have been saved for something other then a 9 carry 22 yard performance. You probably should have waited a week or two before starting this thread.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
And yet he took his on his biggest piece of the pie last night.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
And yet he took his on his biggest piece of the pie last night.
:confused: It's been a long day, please explain this in a little more detail.

 
ray had 20 touches 8 catches though which is nice for an rb in ppr leagues plus a td.

pierce 9 touches and didnt do squat with them. 9 for 22, not that rice was better. 12 for 36. but he had the score.

Oline didnt look good run blocking at all.

I dont think I'd be too concerned just yet about Rice though.

I would be concerned about the Oline a bit if they struggle run blocking again against the Browns.

Whats the status of Oher going forward?
This is all you need to be concerned about.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
You're acting as if Rice ran all over DEN. Neither of them looked very good running behind that line as DEN was getting penetration all night.

 
over re-action.

If was the first game of the year, the players havent played a full game yet, it was in Denver famous Altitude for making road players more tired.

IMO as long as Ray Rice us healthy you have nothing to fear.

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
You're acting as if Rice ran all over DEN. Neither of them looked very good running behind that line as DEN was getting penetration all night.
No I'm not.

Rice was able to have runs of 7, 9, 6 and 12.

Pierce had the run of 14 and was able to gain 8 yards on his next 8 carries. Since packing on the weight Pierce hasnt even looked the same starting in pre-season.

Had Pierce actually done something, anything, then there would be something to "Worry" about. Why in the hell should ANY Rice owner worry about some guy going for 2 points on a 9-22 in week one AFTER Rice just went for 20 points?

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
You're acting as if Rice ran all over DEN. Neither of them looked very good running behind that line as DEN was getting penetration all night.
No I'm not.

Rice was able to have runs of 7, 9, 6 and 12.

Pierce had the run of 14 and was able to gain 8 yards on his next 8 carries. Since packing on the weight Pierce hasnt even looked the same starting in pre-season.

Had Pierce actually done something, anything, then there would be something to "Worry" about. Why in the hell should ANY Rice owner worry about some guy going for 2 points on a 9-22 in week one AFTER Rice just went for 20 points?
so he had 4 carries for 34 yards

and 6 carries for 2 yards?

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
And Rice saw a snapcount last night that he only exceeded in five games last year. Last night's game featured an unusually large number of plays for both teams because of how little each team ran the ball. Absolute number of snaps don't have a lot of meaning when each team is passing almost every down.

 
Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
And Rice saw a snapcount last night that he only exceeded in five games last year. Last night's game featured an unusually large number of plays for both teams because of how little each team ran the ball. Absolute number of snaps don't have a lot of meaning when each team is passing almost every down.
Passing almost every down-- In the thin air--in week 1

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?

 
Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
FWIW....since week 9 of last season Ray has averaged 17+ppg in PPR

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
FWIW....since week 9 of last season Ray has averaged 17+ppg in PPR
Yup. For the record I'm not projecting the death of Ray Rice in PPR as I stated in an earlier post that I have no doubt he'll finish top 10 in PPR barring injury. I'm saying Pierce negatively effects his value and it shouldn't be disregarded.

IMO, pretending that last night was an outlier and blaming it on the altitude is weak. He saw slightly more time than the consensus expected but nothing to suggest it was abnormal.

 
Overreaction and rampant speculation in this thread. Rice is one of the safest RBs in FF. If you drafted him thinking he'd be the #1 RB, or even top 5 at the end of the season, you were misguided. But he has IMO, the highest probability of any RB in football of finishing in the top 10. And part of the reason for that is the presence of Bernard Pierce. This is for PPR and 0.5 PPR.

 
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
There's no "spin" to what Rice go...which is 71 yards and a TD.

Clearly Baltimore didn't run the ball very effectively. Baltimore had an O-line injury, that is a fact. Pierce barely topped 20 yards, that is a fact.

Not spin. Just straight-up what happened.

Rice had 71 yards and a TD in a game where Baltimore spent the majority of the second half behind and had a noteworthy O-line injury during the game. Pierce had all of about 20 yards all game.

I'm not worried about him at all.
This is exactly what's noteworthy. Pierce clearly isn't a natural pass catcher yet saw a larger snap count last night than he did in any game last year (excluding week 17). What happens when BAL chooses to exploit Pierces ability to run out the clock/pick on tired defenses when they have the lead? Will we see this come dangerously close to 50/50 split in both offensive snaps and touches?

You can point to production (although Rice only managed a measly 3ypc himself) and say "meh, no biggie" but that's only a surface argument. The fact the Pierce is going to likely cap the ceiling of your first round pick cannot be disregarded and needed to be taken into account on draft day.
You and the rest of this thread are putting the carriage in front of the horse.

If Pierce continues to look like he has in the pre-season and like last night his time will only decrease.
Yes, of course. I thought that was already understood, or at least implied

 
Denver's run defense was really good last year, looks like it will be good this year. Limited both backs (as did the oher injury as mentioned).

I'd see what happens next week before starting to drink in the morning-after time period.

 
Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
FWIW....since week 9 of last season Ray has averaged 17+ppg in PPR
Yep, Pierce's workload went up when Caldwell came on board but it was not at the expense of Rice.

 
Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.
So what went wrong last night? Shouldn't we expect Pierce to dominate carries in the first half of a close game if your theory were correct?

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
About as hard as taking 1/2 of a season and attempting to extrapolate it out as gospel moving forward in order to easily set aside a stud RB. Other than that, it makes perfect sense.

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
FWIW....since week 9 of last season Ray has averaged 17+ppg in PPR
Yep, Pierce's workload went up when Caldwell came on board but it was not at the expense of Rice.
Agree 100% regarding this not being at Rice's expense, at least FF wise - touches will be there for Rice no matter what Pierce does.

 
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Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.
So what went wrong last night? Shouldn't we expect Pierce to dominate carries in the first half of a close game if your theory were correct?
No we should expect both to split carries on 1st and 2nd down to share the load, with Rice getting the vast majority of RB action in the passing game. As they have been since middle of last season. What went wrong last night is they fell way behind.

 
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
About as hard as taking 1/2 of a season and attempting to extrapolate it out as gospel moving forward in order to easily set aside a stud RB. Other than that, it makes perfect sense.
You're making it seem as if I was the only one under the impression that Pierce's role in the offense would pick up where it left off when anyone who was even remotely paying attention to fantasy football this year already knew this. So in case you weren't aware, yes, BAL plans to use Pierce in this fashion all season long and yes, it's a timeshare. Again, I still think Rice is a beast in PPR but his ceiling is capped. LawFitz has a good point however, as you're essentially sacrificing upside for consistency.

Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.
So what went wrong last night? Shouldn't we expect Pierce to dominate carries in the first half of a close game if your theory were correct?
Last year, both Rice (56) and Pierce's (23) 4th quarter carry totals fell in line with their seasons end carry percentages (70% and 30% respectively). I don't believe either was blatantly used over the other in the 4th quarter.

 
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The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
About as hard as taking 1/2 of a season and attempting to extrapolate it out as gospel moving forward in order to easily set aside a stud RB. Other than that, it makes perfect sense.
You're making it seem as if I was the only one under the impression that Pierce's role in the offense would pick up where it left off when anyone who was even remotely paying attention to fantasy football this year already knew this. So in case you weren't aware, yes, BAL plans to use Pierce in this fashion all season long and yes, it's a timeshare. Again, I still think Rice is a beast in PPR but his ceiling is capped. LawFitz has a good point however, as you're essentially sacrificing upside for consistency.

Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.
So what went wrong last night? Shouldn't we expect Pierce to dominate carries in the first half of a close game if your theory were correct?
Last year, both Rice (56) and Pierce's (23) 4th quarter carry totals fell in line with their seasons end carry percentages (70% and 30% respectively). I don't believe either was blatantly used over the other in the 4th quarter.
At no point did I say Rice would be used more in the 4th. Just that he'd be more effective late in games because of this time share approach.

 

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