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Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce....uh oh (1 Viewer)

Im more worried about the BAL OL and offense as whole when it comes to Rice than anything that has to do with Pierce. Everyone knew Pierce was likely to get upwards of 150 carries this year, but if BAL cant consistently move the ball and people dont step up in the passing game, it might be hard for Rice to compile the yards. That said, they wont be playing DEN every week and certainly wont be getting blown out every week either. Seemed like BAL had a lot of drops as well.

If Pierce is as ineffective as he was last night I wouldnt expect him to start getting more carries either.

 
Sorry SameSongNDance, you don't get to just say the following as if an oracle told you how this was going to play out in Baltimore.

  • "You're making it seem as if I was the only one under the impression that Pierce's role in the offense would pick up where it left off when anyone who was even remotely paying attention to fantasy football this year already knew this. So in case you weren't aware, yes, BAL plans to use Pierce in this fashion all season long and yes, it's a timeshare. Again, I still think Rice is a beast in PPR but his ceiling is capped. LawFitz has a good point however, as you're essentially sacrificing upside for consistency."
Especially when you seemingly ignored the majority of my points. First, I never stated that it is not some type of timeshare. I stated that it would not be a 60/40 timeshare (meaning, this season). Second, if it is indeed a 60/40 split, then that's just horrible coaching since the scouting on Pierce clearly demonstrates he is a poor blocker and thus limits what defenses have to plan for when he is in the game. Perhaps that's why the Denver rookie safety, Ihenacho, had about a thousand tackles last night.

I think Baltimore has better coaching than that though, and I think we'll see that not equating to a 60/40 split when we look at the entire 2013 season. Pierce has a place as an elite burst runner in the offense for sure. But that's not a 40% place. Rice will get, and should get, more than 60% of the touches when we compare the two at the end of the year.

But then again, just my opinion. I guess I'll agree to disagree.

 
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.

 
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.
Safest first round RB in ppr, imo. On the nights he doesn't have 100 yards on the ground and a td or two, he will have 5+ receptions and 80+ total yards and like 50% of a touchdown.

 
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.
Huh? His ADP is consistently in the top 5.
it was actually 6 this year and people here were reluctantly taking him at 1.09.he was the #4 rb last year in ppr and people act like he finished out of the top 10.

 
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
21 points.i dont give a #### if flacco throws it to him 21 times at the line of scrimmage every game and he curls into a ball as soon as he catches it.

 
Uh Oh, really? I dun think you watched the game, too bad it was a mildly interesting one as football games go.

 
bagger said:
Sabertooth said:
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
21 points.i dont give a #### if flacco throws it to him 21 times at the line of scrimmage every game and he curls into a ball as soon as he catches it.
Until the Ravens take the ball out of Rice's hands, I'm not going to worry...

 
LawFitz said:
Chaka said:
LawFitz said:
Chaka said:
Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.

Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
So your theory is that the Ravens were trying to wear out the Broncos when they gave Pierce six touches in the first half?
No my theory is that the Ravens want to grind out the game in terms of the their general offensive philosophy and they see Pierce as a means to that end.
So what went wrong last night? Shouldn't we expect Pierce to dominate carries in the first half of a close game if your theory were correct?
No we should expect both to split carries on 1st and 2nd down to share the load, with Rice getting the vast majority of RB action in the passing game. As they have been since middle of last season. What went wrong last night is they fell way behind.
They were ahead in the first half last night and the touches were split 14 to 6.

This isn't a time share/RBBC situation Rice is the clear #1 RB he has and will continue to dominate touches and Pierce will spell Rice. I will concede that Rice may not be getting 360 or so touches like he did in '10 & '11 but he will still be a 320 touch guy and looks to be the goal line option too so he is money just like he has always been.

 
bagger said:
humpback said:
bagger said:
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.
Huh? His ADP is consistently in the top 5.
it was actually 6 this year and people here were reluctantly taking him at 1.09.he was the #4 rb last year in ppr and people act like he finished out of the top 10.
Okay, but obviously we don't know where he's going to finish the season. According to MFL, he was #2 last season, #3 in 2011, and #4 in 2010. How on earth is that "completely underrated year after year".

 
SameSongNDance said:
Papa John said:
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
Well for one thing, resting the starter in week 17 might lead one to an incorrect conclusion with such a selective sample.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Papa John said:
The overreaction regarding Pierce is nonsense IMHO. Admittedly, Pierce made the most of his touches last year and he has a role in Baltimore, but there is no way he makes this backfield a RBBC or 60/40 split. He is explosive, but a HORRIBLE blocker. Not the guy you want in on a majority (or even 40-35%) of the snaps when you just paid your franchise QB $120.6 million dollars. In addition, he will now be scouted by NFL teams and prepared for (unlike last year), and given his blocking deficiencies it will be clear what plays are happening (and are not) when he is in. In short, the defenses will make the adjustment to him, and I just don't see elite "Ray Rice" talent there. But, on the plus side, he'll keep Rice fresh all year long, and with all the defensive losses in Baltimore, they will be running a ton and/or dumping the ball off to Ray Ray in order to control the clock. If you are one who is of the opinion that Pierce is going to take Rice's job and/or that this backfield is becoming a 60/40 split, then I couldn't disagree more.

Now, if we are talking that O-Line in Baltimore, there's reason for concern regarding Rice. But still, he has always been able to produce because he can create on his own and can do everything as a RB ... that = stud to me, and IMHO that hasn't changed.
It's been a timeshare (60/40 split on carries) since Week 9 of the 2012 season. How hard is this to understand?
Well for one thing, resting the starter in week 17 might lead one to an incorrect conclusion with such a selective sample.
Sure, that skews the data slightly but doesn't change the fact that BAL made a concentrated effort to increase his workload over the second half of the 2012 season. Even if you ignore that 12 carry, week 17 game, he still saw a 200%+ increase in carries (from 30 to 66 even when you discount week 17)

It also doesn't change the fact that he saw the largest snap count and snap count percentage (in comparison to Rice) of his career last night. It's not like I'm making those numbers up (provided BigBoy was accurate with his numbers). Sure, the total snaps may have been slightly inflated due to the game state, but the percentage (38%) is notable and just so happens to fall in line with Weeks 9-17 (38.2%) even when you include the Week 17 outlier.

Like I said though, we definitely need more data points to draw any concrete conclusions. I just believe this situation is worth monitoring.

 
--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.
Ok so the Ravens ran 87 total plays yesterday. If Pierce was in for 33 of those plays that is 38% of them.

Still, that is a lot of plays.

I would think in a normal game in terms of number of plays run this will be more 30-35% of them going to pierce. Which is a pretty normal distribution for a COP/timeshare RB on a team who has a feature RB.

I think you are pushing it a bit suggesting the split is closer to 60/40 than 65/35.

I didn't think Pierce looked that good either, but I also didn't expect the Bronco's to play defense as well as they did.

I think there is something to folks saying that when Pierce comes in the defense reads run probability higher, and will continue to until be becomes a better option in pass protection/as a receiver.

I thought Rice looked much better running the ball than Pierce. :shrug:

Just by the percentages here Pierce did not ever command more than 30% from week 9 on except for in week 17.

 
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--- Ray Rice played 53 snaps, 20 more than Bernard Pierce.
Thanks, I was looking for snap count %s as footballoutsiders hasn't updated yet.

So Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps? That would actually be a lot in comparison to last years totals.

Week 1 - Pierce 12 (20%) - Rice 42 (69%)

Week 2 - Pierce 7 (10%) - Rice 62 (90%)

Week 3 - Pierce 15 (21%) - Rice 58 (78%)

Week 4 - Pierce 10 (12%) - Rice 71 (87%)

Week 5 - Pierce 6 (11%) - Rice 48 (86%)

Week 6 - Pierce 5 (10%) - Rice 45 (88%)

Week 7 - Pierce 4 (7%) - Rice 53 (87%)

Week 9 - Pierce 12 (18%) - Rice 53 (80%)

Week 10 - Pierce 19 (30%) - Rice 40 (62%)

Week 11 - Pierce 10 (17%) - Rice 50 (83%)

Week 12 - Pierce 14 (15%) - Rice 79 (85%)

Week 13 - Pierce 14 (23%) - Rice 47 (77%)

Week 14 - Pierce 17 (28%) - Rice 43 (72%)

Week 15 - Pierce 6 (9%) - Rice 55 (85%)

Week 16 - Pierce 22 (26%) - Rice 58 (68%)

Week 17 - Pierce 45 (53%) - Rice 0 (0%)

If Pierce saw 33 offensive snaps, that would be more than he saw at any point last year excluding Week 17 where Rice didn't play. I'm also going to assume it's one of the closer Rice to Pierce offensive snap ratios.
Ok so the Ravens ran 87 total plays yesterday. If Pierce was in for 33 of those plays that is 38% of them.

Still, that is a lot of plays.

I would think in a normal game in terms of number of plays run this will be more 30-35% of them going to pierce. Which is a pretty normal distribution for a COP/timeshare RB on a team who has a feature RB.

I think you are pushing it a bit suggesting the split is closer to 60/40 than 65/35.

I didn't think Pierce looked that good either, but I also didn't expect the Bronco's to play defense as well as they did.

I think there is something to folks saying that when Pierce comes in the defense reads run probability higher, and will continue to until be becomes a better option in pass protection/as a receiver.

I thought Rice looked much better running the ball than Pierce. :shrug:

Just by the percentages here Pierce did not ever command more than 30% from week 9 on except for in week 17.
So you're saying less plays equals less snaps because Rice won't need as much of a rest? Just trying to follow your logic.

Also, I don't have a means/source to break down the snap count by quarter, but don't you find it interesting that Pierce saw his highest snap percentage in a game where BAL had to take to the air 62 times? For someone who's not exactly adept at pass blocking/receiving, that's quite a lot.

In terms of production, to be fair, Pierce isn't very far reserved from a left knee sprain. I have a feeling he's still being hampered by it as it hasn't looked the same to me since coming back for game 3 of the preseason. I think the talent is real and was actually surprised to learn he had the 5th best broken tackle rate amongst all RBs last year. The sample size is a bit small but I don't think it's a fluke.

 
I was thinking it may be due in part to giving Rice more of a breather because of the high number of plays run yes.

I really don't know how good or not Pierce is as a blocking RB however. I have not much looked into this situation before now.

Thinking about the up tempo offense. Perhaps this is an example of the Raven's version of this philosophy. With the goal being to increase the number of rushing plays they run to supplement their offense.

The problem being that they may not have the offensive line to run it effectively enough.

 
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Also, I don't have a means/source to break down the snap count by quarter, but don't you find it interesting that Pierce saw his highest snap percentage in a game where BAL had to take to the air 62 times? For someone who's not exactly adept at pass blocking/receiving, that's quite a lot.
I dont know this breakdown either, but maybe Pierce got more late snaps when the game was clearly out of hand? Certainly the touches favored Rice.

 
Also, I don't have a means/source to break down the snap count by quarter, but don't you find it interesting that Pierce saw his highest snap percentage in a game where BAL had to take to the air 62 times? For someone who's not exactly adept at pass blocking/receiving, that's quite a lot.
I dont know this breakdown either, but maybe Pierce got more late snaps when the game was clearly out of hand? Certainly the touches favored Rice.
I don't remember exactly, but from memory Pierce started like the 2nd or 3rd drive and played all the snaps until they got into the red zone and then Rice went back in. After that Pierce periodically appeared in the huddle but didn't stay in on drives

 
Also, I don't have a means/source to break down the snap count by quarter, but don't you find it interesting that Pierce saw his highest snap percentage in a game where BAL had to take to the air 62 times? For someone who's not exactly adept at pass blocking/receiving, that's quite a lot.
I dont know this breakdown either, but maybe Pierce got more late snaps when the game was clearly out of hand? Certainly the touches favored Rice.
Yeah, also to be clear I'm always referring to rushing attempts (not sure if I mistakenly used "touches" instead in this thread) here as the latter will always favor Rice for obvious reasons. As to whether or not it was because the game was out of hand, I'm not sure. I do know however, that BAL did not use Pierce in that fashion last year. Rice actually saw slightly more rushing attempts than Pierce in the 4th quarter as it relates to their year end rushing attempt totals.

 
This strikes me as a legitimate concern. Pierce ran hard last year in playoffs, earned raves, and was prime to get some more touches. I'm not sure about 60/40, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 65/35 the rest of the way. I have no investment in either guy right now, and it's just how it looks to me, but Pierce earned more touches with the way he ran at the end of the year.

 
Run It Up said:
ebsteelers said:
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.
Safest first round RB in ppr, imo. On the nights he doesn't have 100 yards on the ground and a td or two, he will have 5+ receptions and 80+ total yards and like 50% of a touchdown.
highest floor, but also lowest ceiling some would say.

 
Run It Up said:
ebsteelers said:
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.
Safest first round RB in ppr, imo. On the nights he doesn't have 100 yards on the ground and a td or two, he will have 5+ receptions and 80+ total yards and like 50% of a touchdown.
highest floor, but also lowest ceiling some would say.
I definitely don't disagree however there is value in safety, especially in the first round.

 
The first half was the "real game" imo. It became a Madden game in the 2nd half, so I wouldn't put too much stock in those numbers going forward. I think in a close game Rice was doing okay for a road game against a decent D.

The team wants Pierce to become a viable rushing option, and they'll give him every chance to do that. But Rice is still top dog there. Not a RBBC. The bigger concern (for the team and owners) is how pedestrian Pierce looked.

 
the Ravens want Pierce to be in the game a lot. in a game that was about as it could be for a supposed back who can't block or catch (shootout where they got way behind) him getting 38% of the snaps is great news for Pierce owners. him playing the 2nd series was great news for Pierce owners. him looking strong on that long burst was great news for Pierce owners. the lack of run blocking without Oher was bad news. I think the Ravens think Pierce is a stronger runner than Rice but obviously not the complete package yet.

 
Rbbc is kind of an ambiguous word. Adrian Peterson is not an Rbbc with Toby. Rice isn't in a thunder and lightning situation but the fact remains that It appeared the plan was to rotate series when the game was close. I think Rice is in danger of losing a lot of snaps. That can't be good for his numbers.

 
Rbbc is kind of an ambiguous word. Adrian Peterson is not an Rbbc with Toby. Rice isn't in a thunder and lightning situation but the fact remains that It appeared the plan was to rotate series when the game was close. I think Rice is in danger of losing a lot of snaps. That can't be good for his numbers.
Based on what?

Seriously, other than your opinion, what is this based on? Also, define "a lot of snaps".

 
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Well, what do we have to go on? One game? I suggest you watch that game.
How about Rice's entire career... hes shared the backfield for every season. Pierces workload really has no effect on Rice, unless you think Pierce is somehow gonna sniff 170+ attempts, which won't happen and even if it did Rice still has a pretty good shot at finishing top 10.

2009:

Rice had 254 attempts and 78 receptions - 2041 total yards 8 TDs

Other backs accounted for 214 attempts (Mcgahee 109)

2010:

Rice had 307 attempts and 63 receptions - 1776 total yards 6 TDs

Others backs accounted for 180 attempts (Mcgahee 100)

2011:

Rice had 291 attempts and 76 receptions - 2068 total yards 15 TDs

Other backs accounted for 168 attempts (R. Williams 108)

2012:

Rice had 257 attempts and 61 receptions - 1621 total yards 10 TDs

Other backs accounted for 187 attempts (Pierce 108)

 
Given that most of Pierce's snaps were between the 20s while Rice was in for the vast majority of red zone snaps and was the clear dump-off option... not a concern, especially in PPR.

 
bagger said:
Sabertooth said:
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
21 points.i dont give a #### if flacco throws it to him 21 times at the line of scrimmage every game and he curls into a ball as soon as he catches it.
Exhibit A for why real men don't play ppr

 
bagger said:
humpback said:
bagger said:
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.
Huh? His ADP is consistently in the top 5.
it was actually 6 this year and people here were reluctantly taking him at 1.09.he was the #4 rb last year in ppr and people act like he finished out of the top 10.
Okay, but obviously we don't know where he's going to finish the season. According to MFL, he was #2 last season, #3 in 2011, and #4 in 2010. How on earth is that "completely underrated year after year".
you are proving my point.Where was his adp every year....lower than his finish.

Not sure if English is your second language so ill keep my snarky comments to myself.

 
bagger said:
Sabertooth said:
Ok. Well you can spin it any way you want because he did pop in that TD and got a bunch of catches, but the fact remains that he appears to be headed towards a committee. 75 combined yards is crap for a Top 10 fantasy back. Lots of rationalization going on in here.
21 points.i dont give a #### if flacco throws it to him 21 times at the line of scrimmage every game and he curls into a ball as soon as he catches it.
Exhibit A for why real men don't play ppr
:rofl:
 
Well, what do we have to go on? One game? I suggest you watch that game.
How about Rice's entire career... hes shared the backfield for every season. Pierces workload really has no effect on Rice, unless you think Pierce is somehow gonna sniff 170+ attempts, which won't happen and even if it did Rice still has a pretty good shot at finishing top 10.

2009:

Rice had 254 attempts and 78 receptions - 2041 total yards 8 TDs

Other backs accounted for 214 attempts (Mcgahee 109)

2010:

Rice had 307 attempts and 63 receptions - 1776 total yards 6 TDs

Others backs accounted for 180 attempts (Mcgahee 100)

2011:

Rice had 291 attempts and 76 receptions - 2068 total yards 15 TDs

Other backs accounted for 168 attempts (R. Williams 108)

2012:

Rice had 257 attempts and 61 receptions - 1621 total yards 10 TDs

Other backs accounted for 187 attempts (Pierce 108)
I think Pierce is going to total around 150 carries by years end but it's not totally inconceivable for him to receive 170+. Of course, he'd have to start looking and playing like the tackle breaking, 5+ ypc Pierce of last year and not this guy I've been watching since the 3rd preseason game. He's either still recovering from the knee sprain or adding those 10 lbs. in the offseason affected his burst. :shrug:

Either way, you're correct. There's always been someone in the backfield siphoning off touches. The only difference this year IMO is that Pierce is an up and coming RB with clear potentional and BAL's attention.

 
Lol, this is looking a lot like 2010. The year that I swooped in and traded some poor owner for Rice. He started 2010 looking like crap

1st game 21 for 43 for 2ypc - Caught 2 balls for 19 yards

2nd game 16 for 87 for 5.4 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 30 yards

3rd game 15 for 80 for 5.3 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 16 yards

4th game 8 for 20 for 2.3 ypc - Caught 1 ball for 9 yards

So, in the first 4 games he averaged 15 for 57 for 3.83 for 0 TD. After this 4 game stretch to start 2010, most owners were panicking. One of them was in my keeper league. I traded for Rice and he went on to post these stats over the next 12 games

247 for 990 + 5 Rushing Tds and Caught 52 Balls for 482 yds and 1 receiving Td - 5 yards per touch and .5 Td every game after was not bad

The point is, do not panic over 1 game, or even a stretch of games. There were games last year when Rice was taken out because Balt got down, or got up so big that they did not need him. Manning almost broke an NFL record Thursday night. So, I do not know that we can be too down on Rice in that sort of game. 20 total touches is more than enough for me as an owner, and most weeks, he will do much more with them.

 
Lol, this is looking a lot like 2010. The year that I swooped in and traded some poor owner for Rice. He started 2010 looking like crap

1st game 21 for 43 for 2ypc - Caught 2 balls for 19 yards

2nd game 16 for 87 for 5.4 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 30 yards

3rd game 15 for 80 for 5.3 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 16 yards

4th game 8 for 20 for 2.3 ypc - Caught 1 ball for 9 yards

So, in the first 4 games he averaged 15 for 57 for 3.83 for 0 TD. After this 4 game stretch to start 2010, most owners were panicking. One of them was in my keeper league. I traded for Rice and he went on to post these stats over the next 12 games

247 for 990 + 5 Rushing Tds and Caught 52 Balls for 482 yds and 1 receiving Td - 5 yards per touch and .5 Td every game after was not bad

The point is, do not panic over 1 game, or even a stretch of games. There were games last year when Rice was taken out because Balt got down, or got up so big that they did not need him. Manning almost broke an NFL record Thursday night. So, I do not know that we can be too down on Rice in that sort of game. 20 total touches is more than enough for me as an owner, and most weeks, he will do much more with them.
:goodposting:

 
Significant lol. Not like we haven't seen this every year, and yet Rice still finishes top 10.

Rice was good for 22 pts last night in ppr. Nothing to see here folks.
He DID put up those points but I don't think it is as easy to brush off as you are saying. Honestly, Rice was one Wes Welker "gift fumble" away from being absolutely irrelevant last night in non-ppr.

In ppr, he's still getting his but for the first time, I see the chinks in the armor with Rice. I think he has the potential to lay a few duds this year, depending on the situations of the game and we usually don't see that from top 10 RBs (usually they find ways to get theres).
After his TD he was at 15 pts, that was with 2 QTRs left in the game. Hardly irrelevant - and as I said this is nothing new at all.
Fantasy owners getting excited from a garbage 1 yard TD.

Rice was basically useless. Got a bunch of trash catches because the game got out of hand.

Fantasy owners have to be the most pathetic human beings out there. Seriously.

 
Lol, this is looking a lot like 2010. The year that I swooped in and traded some poor owner for Rice. He started 2010 looking like crap

1st game 21 for 43 for 2ypc - Caught 2 balls for 19 yards

2nd game 16 for 87 for 5.4 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 30 yards

3rd game 15 for 80 for 5.3 ypc (decent, but no TD) - Caught 4 balls for 16 yards

4th game 8 for 20 for 2.3 ypc - Caught 1 ball for 9 yards

So, in the first 4 games he averaged 15 for 57 for 3.83 for 0 TD. After this 4 game stretch to start 2010, most owners were panicking. One of them was in my keeper league. I traded for Rice and he went on to post these stats over the next 12 games

247 for 990 + 5 Rushing Tds and Caught 52 Balls for 482 yds and 1 receiving Td - 5 yards per touch and .5 Td every game after was not bad

The point is, do not panic over 1 game, or even a stretch of games. There were games last year when Rice was taken out because Balt got down, or got up so big that they did not need him. Manning almost broke an NFL record Thursday night. So, I do not know that we can be too down on Rice in that sort of game. 20 total touches is more than enough for me as an owner, and most weeks, he will do much more with them.
:goodposting:
Definitely would have been a good post if the start of this season at all mirrored that of 2010, which it didn't since Rice actually produced. The premise of that post was to boast about fleecing someone three years ago, nothing more.

 
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You guys are probably right. Nothing to worry about. Rice was churning out tons of yards on the ground. No way they bench him.

 
ebsteelers said:
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.
That is all true, but you can't expect Rice to catch 8 balls every week, and he isn't gonna get a gimme TD following a fumbled punt at the 1 or 2 every week either.

 
ebsteelers said:
After thinking about it a little more.

If you a Ray Rice owner.. you should be perfectly fine after last night.

In a game were he did nothing exciting. He got you 21 points. Even if you take away the td. still 15+ points in a bad effort by the ravens oline.
That is all true, but you can't expect Rice to catch 8 balls every week, and he isn't gonna get a gimme TD following a fumbled punt at the 1 or 2 every week either.
The Ravens probably won't be calling many playaction screens to the FB at the goal line either. In terms of flukiness, Vonta Leach's TD and the muffed punt probably cancel each other out. Rice will get his fair share of goal line carries. The fact that he was consistently on the field, let alone targeted during a blowout is reason enough for Rice owners to feel more comfortable about this whole situation.

 
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bagger said:
humpback said:
bagger said:
Rice is like a better Tili barber. Somehow completely underrated year after year and then puts up top 5 numbers.

If you don't own rice now would be a good time to see if you can't steal him.
Huh? His ADP is consistently in the top 5.
it was actually 6 this year and people here were reluctantly taking him at 1.09.he was the #4 rb last year in ppr and people act like he finished out of the top 10.
Okay, but obviously we don't know where he's going to finish the season. According to MFL, he was #2 last season, #3 in 2011, and #4 in 2010. How on earth is that "completely underrated year after year".
you are proving my point.Where was his adp every year....lower than his finish.

Not sure if English is your second language so ill keep my snarky comments to myself.
:lmao:

Clearly numbers aren't your strong suit because he finished lower than his adp 2 out of the last 3 years, clown.

 
Significant lol. Not like we haven't seen this every year, and yet Rice still finishes top 10.

Rice was good for 22 pts last night in ppr. Nothing to see here folks.
He DID put up those points but I don't think it is as easy to brush off as you are saying. Honestly, Rice was one Wes Welker "gift fumble" away from being absolutely irrelevant last night in non-ppr.

In ppr, he's still getting his but for the first time, I see the chinks in the armor with Rice. I think he has the potential to lay a few duds this year, depending on the situations of the game and we usually don't see that from top 10 RBs (usually they find ways to get theres).
After his TD he was at 15 pts, that was with 2 QTRs left in the game. Hardly irrelevant - and as I said this is nothing new at all.
Fantasy owners getting excited from a garbage 1 yard TD.

Rice was basically useless. Got a bunch of trash catches because the game got out of hand.

Fantasy owners have to be the most pathetic human beings out there. Seriously.
Why are you here if you aren't excited for touchdowns and garbage time catches? Go back to your real football forum..... lol

 
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I would like to hope/believe most Rice owners in non-PPR leagues are like me: very concerned about the possibility of a full blown RBBC but also cautiously optimistic. I remember seeing Pierce out there a LOT, but I also remember the two times the Ravens had the ball inside the 5 that Ray Rice was in the game which was comforting. I also agree that Pierce didn't look very good running the ball and while Rice didn't either he looked more decisive and powerful. I will give it a week or two to see how things shake out, but if it is a full blown RBBC and Rice is still scoring near double digits, I will be a seller trying to get a top 10 RB who doesn't share the load.

 
The more I think about it Rice could be a TD horse this year with Pitta and Boldin gone, and Torrey not being able to catch a TD for less than 20 yards. Rice should get a ton of touches inside the 5 this year. Maybe his yardage takes a dip, but he has a good chance at returning to that 15 TD type of season.

 

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