Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Tanner9919
Footballguy
disappears in big games.
oft-injured.
avg'd less than 4 ypc since week 7.no 100 yards games since week 7. there's a saying, 'it's like putting lipstick on a pig", meaning you can talk Cook up all you want, but what you have in him is a lesser RB who is to skinny for the every day rigors of the NFL. he's entering that danger zone known as 'fool's gold' as the 2020 fantasy season approaches in july. he'll be overpriced, overvalued, and you should never trust him to make it through a season unscathed. oh, and then there's this Kirk Cousins thingy. he got exposed by SF as a TOTAL fraud. teams will use this game to plan ways to crush the Vikings next season.means 8-in-the-box for Cook.
no thanks.
oft-injured.
avg'd less than 4 ypc since week 7.no 100 yards games since week 7. there's a saying, 'it's like putting lipstick on a pig", meaning you can talk Cook up all you want, but what you have in him is a lesser RB who is to skinny for the every day rigors of the NFL. he's entering that danger zone known as 'fool's gold' as the 2020 fantasy season approaches in july. he'll be overpriced, overvalued, and you should never trust him to make it through a season unscathed. oh, and then there's this Kirk Cousins thingy. he got exposed by SF as a TOTAL fraud. teams will use this game to plan ways to crush the Vikings next season.means 8-in-the-box for Cook.
no thanks.
I’ll have my pick of Cook or Kamara at #3 in a keeper league. Super torn bc both have some question marks as well as huge upsides. Love Kamara’s 2018 season as a template for what he CAN do. Saints future QB situation will play into this off season decision as well.
I also like how Cook is utilized and am not worried about his injuries over a three year contract as others might be. The bigger unknown is how will Mattison be used going forward.
Both Kamara and Cook are great assets but also not sure if I’m better off taking a deal and moving back for Mixon and DJ Moore type combo.
Either way I think Tanner’s ‘Chicken Little the sky is falling’ outlook for cook is overblown.
I also like how Cook is utilized and am not worried about his injuries over a three year contract as others might be. The bigger unknown is how will Mattison be used going forward.
Both Kamara and Cook are great assets but also not sure if I’m better off taking a deal and moving back for Mixon and DJ Moore type combo.
Either way I think Tanner’s ‘Chicken Little the sky is falling’ outlook for cook is overblown.
Last edited by a moderator:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Terpman22
Footballguy
Feel like this guy will have a nice year, but nothing major major. Feel is value right now is at an all time high. Don't own him in a single league, but I feel owners that have waited 3 years for a guy to produce at the level and are trying to sell at his highest value. I see 1600 total yards, 10 TDs or so this year.
I mean, from last years scoring that is about RB 5 where he ended up, even missing the last 2.5 games. I would be happy with spending a first rounder on 1600 yards and 10 TD.
Foosball God
Foos
Agreed - Obviously Mattison is a must-have handcuff if you draft Cook. IF Cook stays healthy I think he remains around the 4-6 RB overall due to his explosiveness and having a year under his belt in Kubiak's system.
The Frankman
Footballguy
The shelf life for RBs is so short and Cook has played with various injuries, not including the major knee surgery he had back in the day. When he's on the field he's a Top 6 RB in the league; Vikings O was noticeably gimped w/o Cook. They do have Mattison but he has issues pass blocking so Minny's O would probably have to be tweaked a bit.
EDIT: In 14-team non-PPR, Mattison was going around 8.1 to 8.10. That's going to skyrocket.
EDIT: In 14-team non-PPR, Mattison was going around 8.1 to 8.10. That's going to skyrocket.
Last edited by a moderator:
sports_fan
Footballguy
I love the guy, but I’d rather not have him than overpay for a rb with an injury history no matter how good. This sucks.
Yeah I just really don't trust this guy. Beast when healthy obviously, but the injuries scare me off. I dont have him anywhere and am not really interested in paying what he costs to acquire either. Will be interesting to see how the contract situation plays out but the injuries worry me more.
I'm not sure that is true. The offense certainly laid an egg against the Packers, but I doubt Cook would have made much difference there. The Vikings o-line(and really entire team other than Anthony Harris) played pretty poorly, and it was through 100% luck that they kept it as close as they did. They didn't miss Cook at all against the Chargers or Bears.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Proper overinflated opinion of himself.
They missed out on the playoffs last year because they finished the season with two divisional losses, and he was injured in those two games.
I'd be waving him goodbye without a seconds thought if I were in the Viking head office. Good player or not, you can't rely on him at all when it really comes down to it.
They missed out on the playoffs last year because they finished the season with two divisional losses, and he was injured in those two games.
I'd be waving him goodbye without a seconds thought if I were in the Viking head office. Good player or not, you can't rely on him at all when it really comes down to it.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why did they draft Mattison in the third?
So they wouldn't have to pay Cook, that's why. (Well, I hope that's why.)
So they wouldn't have to pay Cook, that's why. (Well, I hope that's why.)
They actually made the playoffs and beat the Saints in the Wildcard Round. Then lost to the 49ers in a game that had nothing to do with Cook's performance at all. They could have had Jim Brown back there and they would have lost.
Tau837
Footballguy
It seems this is true. According to the CBA:
Article 8, Section 1(b):
Article 23, Section 5(a):
Article 42, Section 1(b):
So he could skip mini-camp and the entire preseason and be fined $93085 + $40K x 47 days = $1,973,085.
Then he would start missing game checks for each regular season game he misses.
But his current base salary for 2020 is $1,331,361. So he literally cannot afford to do this, even aside from the fact that he would not accrue a season. He truly has zero leverage.
ETA: Corrected based on @Hankmoody comment.
Last edited by a moderator:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings could not block the Packers defense in either game worth a damn. It seemed like the Packers knew the Vikings play book too well and they focused on stopping the play action pass over stopping the run.
In the first game Cook had almost 200 combined yards. The Vikings lost 21-16
In the second game Cook did not play. Mike Boone 11 carries for 28 yards. Vikings lose 23-10
While the final result is the same I think Cook makes a significant difference.
To be fair Mattison did not play in that 2nd game vs the Packers either. Maybe he could have done better than Boone, but I don't think it would be as a good as Cook would do.
Last edited by a moderator:
If you just take her on tweet sure that's what she said but she also added later you start high in negotiations and this is normal and she also believes they will reach an agreement before the season.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
From what I am reading it doesn't seem like Cook have any leverage in this situation.
If he holds out all year he would become a restricted free agent and the Vikings can give him a 2nd round tender and be compensated when another team gives him a new contract.
I do think the Vikings want to keep him. They have a very challenging cap situation right now however and if he wants more than say 7-8 million a year (I think he does) the Vikings shouldn't do more than that.
Melvin Gordon tried to do this last year and ended up coming back to the team after a missing a few games of the regular season. He got a 2 year deal from the Broncos worth about $8 million per season.
The Vikings currently have about $12 million in cap space so they would have a little money left for emergency signing if someone is injured or something.
I was reading that the NFL is expecting their revenue from 2020 to drop significantly and that may affect the salary cap in 2021. I was reading the salary cap might be reduced by as much as 20% next season and if that happens, then most NFL teams will be over the cap in 2021 and have to make some major changes. It could mean a lot of high priced players hitting the market in 2021.
If he holds out all year he would become a restricted free agent and the Vikings can give him a 2nd round tender and be compensated when another team gives him a new contract.
I do think the Vikings want to keep him. They have a very challenging cap situation right now however and if he wants more than say 7-8 million a year (I think he does) the Vikings shouldn't do more than that.
Melvin Gordon tried to do this last year and ended up coming back to the team after a missing a few games of the regular season. He got a 2 year deal from the Broncos worth about $8 million per season.
The Vikings currently have about $12 million in cap space so they would have a little money left for emergency signing if someone is injured or something.
I was reading that the NFL is expecting their revenue from 2020 to drop significantly and that may affect the salary cap in 2021. I was reading the salary cap might be reduced by as much as 20% next season and if that happens, then most NFL teams will be over the cap in 2021 and have to make some major changes. It could mean a lot of high priced players hitting the market in 2021.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I also suspect that they will reach an agreement. I believe he should be paid somewhere between Ekeler and CMC.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Yep. This isn't new (maybe the mandatory fine is, I haven't seen a legitimate source on this claim yet) so anyone with under 4 years has zero leverage.
Boone22
Footballguy
ESPN's Courtney Cronin reports holdout Dalvin Cook would "gladly" take an offer in the $13 million-per-year range.
The initial figure reportedly proposed by Cook's camp was close to $16 million annually (similar to Christian McCaffrey's recent extension), but that side has recently dropped their number to just under $15 million. It's still far removed from the Vikings' initial offer of $10 million per year. As Cronin points out, Minnesota signed Stefon Diggs, Xavier Rhodes, Everson Griffen and Linval Joseph to extensions on the eve of camp in recent years, so all hope is not lost. But Cook remains prepared to sit out the season and avoid playing during the final year of his rookie deal — a transgression that would cause the 24-year-old to become a restricted free agent (rather than unrestricted) after the 2020 season. Buckle up.
The initial figure reportedly proposed by Cook's camp was close to $16 million annually (similar to Christian McCaffrey's recent extension), but that side has recently dropped their number to just under $15 million. It's still far removed from the Vikings' initial offer of $10 million per year. As Cronin points out, Minnesota signed Stefon Diggs, Xavier Rhodes, Everson Griffen and Linval Joseph to extensions on the eve of camp in recent years, so all hope is not lost. But Cook remains prepared to sit out the season and avoid playing during the final year of his rookie deal — a transgression that would cause the 24-year-old to become a restricted free agent (rather than unrestricted) after the 2020 season. Buckle up.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
I posted a link above to the CBA and the relevant language from it that shows the fines are mandatory.
Reading conflicting reports on if the new CBA rules on holdouts apply to players on their first contract. If anyone can get firm details on that it would be appreciated.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Cool, thanks, that's the first definitive part I have seen. However, your interpretation is slightly off. As a player under contract signed as a Drafted Rookie, he's only subjected to a fine of $40,00 per day per clause vii.
But again, thanks, first I could find this definitively.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
They are different, but still very stiff penalties. See above post. $40k per day instead of $50k.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tau837
Footballguy
@Hankmoody just helped to illustrate one of the differences - $40K fine per day on a first contract, $50K per day for others. Either way, Cook can't afford it for long.
Don't believe there is any difference for season accrual.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes not much difference and only drives home the point he really has no leverage.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Thank you Hankmoody and JWB for answering that question of the difference between 1st and subsequent contracts.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
The money isn't even the big thing. The moment he doesn't report he loses the opportunity for an Accrued Season. Boom, he's now an RFA and totally hosed next year.
There isn't a difference on the accrual part, but the accrual is not nearly as important for players with 4 or more already in their pocket (which most player on their second contract would be). Once they hit the 4 they are no longer subject to Restricted Free Agency and that's the huge leverage point teams have.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I’ll never begrudge a guy wanting to get paid, especially a RB since they have shorter careers, but Cook has been unable to stay healthy. Any team would have to be crazy to pay top money to a RB who has never made it through a whole season and missed 19 of 48 possible regular season games thus far.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm glad if the other posts I've read are accurate that Cook has no leverage. Even though I'm a Vikes fan, a guy who has never made it through a 16 game season still under a rookie contract should not be able to hold out without it costing them. Play out your contract, prove you can stay healthy. Even if he does stay healthy in 2020, I let someone else invest the $16M/per he's seeking. RBs are not worth anywhere near that money.
