Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
RB Damien Harris, BUF (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Fariq
- Start date
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Sigmund Bloom@SigmundBloom
"I think you should go get Damien Harris in your fantasy league and stash him. He's eligible to return Week 4. Whenever he hits the field, it'd make sense for the Patriots to see what they have."
"I think you should go get Damien Harris in your fantasy league and stash him. He's eligible to return Week 4. Whenever he hits the field, it'd make sense for the Patriots to see what they have."
Tanner9919
Footballguy
I don't see it. Cam is the person to own in that offense and very little otherwise. it's the worst rbbc in the league - with the smallest payout for any of the players.
I'd rather have a share in the Rams backfield, etc
I'd rather have a share in the Rams backfield, etc
Streetduck
Footballguy
If he's effective, he'll fill the Michel role. He'll be the lead guy in a heavy running offense, you could certainly do worse.
I'm sure there's someone around here who knows better than me, but it seems to me running QBs are good for running backs. The whole offense is built off of that option handoff.
I'm sure there's someone around here who knows better than me, but it seems to me running QBs are good for running backs. The whole offense is built off of that option handoff.
rockaction
Footballguy
TDs are huge in fantasy world and the read option with Cam keeping is devastating on the goal line. That spells doom for all those six point punched in from the one rushes that RBs might otherwise get with somebody like Matt Ryan at QB (IIRC, he's also notoriously bad at QB sneaks unlike Brady).
But if Harris fills the Michel role, he could be a RB3 or 4 in deep leagues, so it's not all lost. He's just likely not going to do much in any standard format, even at flex, because of the breakdown of touches that Anarchy99 has pointed out repeatedly and, in my opinion, correctly.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Cam has more carries than any NE running back and twice as many yards as any of their backs. In theory, running QB's should get backs more YPC due to the defense not being able to key on just the back. This generally holds true, but not when the QB is the one getting a ton of carries. Collectively, the NE running back group is averaging only 3.4 YPC. That alone might get Harris a shot to get added into the mix . . . assuming his hand has healed and NE takes him off IR soon. Through two games, NE backs only have 40 total carries. That ranks 27th among MFL teams in RB carries . . . but NE has used 4 guys and split up the 40 carries. (Things obviously can change a lot with 14 games still to play.)
I don't think the Harris love is based on some insane skill set that Harris has to offer. His best attribute is he's not Michel. He's an unproven option that might get some work moving forward after an offseason where teams could hardly practice. Who knows if he can pass protect, as he hasn't had to do it in the NFL and they didn't allow contact or blitzes on Newton in training camp. I doubt he will get a ton of carries, and I doubt he would send White to the bench and take the RB receptions. Harris is a fantasy dart throw, and I guess if fantasy owners want to add someone that they think is a better dart throw than dart throw options on other NFL teams, have at it.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Cam can't be expected to continue to carry the load for ne at rb the entire season. They're going to need someone to step up and take the hand offs and it hasn't been anyone healthy on the roster.
Why not Harris?
Teezee
Footballguy
I think with NE, I've noticed they take the first half of the season to create an identity for other teams to prepare for, only to switch up and be the opposite in the second half. It seemed with Brady, they would always throw more during the first half of the season to show other teams when they prepare for them down the road, "hey look, this is what we can do." They plant the seed in your head that they are explosive and can throw.
It's in the second half of the season, they tend to deviate from that pass identity towards a more conservative running philosophy down the stretch into winter. Also by then, teams are watching tape on how they have been scoring. And if your tape has a lot of passing influence, then thats the only thing you can prepare for as far as watching the tape.
So to Cam Newton, I believe they are trying to establish him as the focal point early on when really, they want to run the rock down the road. You can also tell by the personnel they have. They have no vertical receiving threat whatsoever right now that they can flex on tape, they have very little invested into the receivers and tes. So the next best thing is to flex Cam and his running prowess and have teams prepare for that when opposing teams are preparing for them down the stretch. In order for them to pivot away from Cam, they have to plan to establish another identity, and that is where Harris comes in bc he is somewhat of an unknown.
I strongly believe their intention with the way the roster currently looks, is to establish Harris once Cam has established himself as a threat.
It's in the second half of the season, they tend to deviate from that pass identity towards a more conservative running philosophy down the stretch into winter. Also by then, teams are watching tape on how they have been scoring. And if your tape has a lot of passing influence, then thats the only thing you can prepare for as far as watching the tape.
So to Cam Newton, I believe they are trying to establish him as the focal point early on when really, they want to run the rock down the road. You can also tell by the personnel they have. They have no vertical receiving threat whatsoever right now that they can flex on tape, they have very little invested into the receivers and tes. So the next best thing is to flex Cam and his running prowess and have teams prepare for that when opposing teams are preparing for them down the stretch. In order for them to pivot away from Cam, they have to plan to establish another identity, and that is where Harris comes in bc he is somewhat of an unknown.
I strongly believe their intention with the way the roster currently looks, is to establish Harris once Cam has established himself as a threat.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't think New England is hiding their intentions at all. I think they only threw the ball against Seattle because it was getting away from them. Seattle got them involved in a track meet they couldn't get out of and NE miraculously almost won but for that last play.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
So the master plan in NE is to make Harris the focal point of the offense? The guy that was the fifth RB last year that say action on one series in garbage time? The guy that was a healthy scratch almost the entire season last year? NE couldn’t do much on the ground last year and Harris couldn’t even make the game day roster.
He was said to look good in a week or two of practice in camp that were either limited contact or non-contact. By the end of training camp, Harris was back practicing with the second unit offense. Then he broke a bone in his hand and can’t practice. Can he catch? Can he block? Can he hold onto the football?
What about all the other RBs? What about Cam? I don’t see any reason why Newton can’t average 10 carries a game. He has not been taking hard tackles and has been sliding or running out of bounds. No big hits.
I don’t see Harris getting enough work, enough receptions, or enough goal line carries to be fantasy relevant. One fumble or one missed blocking assignment and he could get so far in the doghouse he might not even get out again this year.
Teezee
Footballguy
I don't think I said "master plan" moreso to establish another threat. You can't sustain for a very long time with your qb constantly getting hit over the course of the season. I think you're severely underestimating Harris' talent and ability. He has the size and the most important thing, good feet. Runs hard, can get it between the tackles and has enough juice to bounce it to the outside, has a little wiggle too. Feet and running hard, these are two traits you have to have in order to get my attention in the first place. He has those. Add in that he was a 3rd round pedigree coming out of Alabama, I don't think he should be completely discounted bc he hasn't been able to get on the field much. Some guys it takes a minute for them to get going. Not all guys come out of the gate balling.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
My bigger concern for NE is post-Gronk they can’t run block. They were horrible last year and haven’t done very well so far. They have been trying to use Izzo as a blocker but he isn’t very good at it. Without Develin they haven’t gotten much from whatever FBs they have tried instead. And now David Andrews has been put on IR. None of that is a recipe for success for Harris or any other RB. Sure Michel hasn’t looked good but on a lot of plays he gets hit in the backfield. Very few backs are going to get plus yardage when they get hit half a second after getting the handoff.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Stop the O line stinks talk. Sony Michel stinks. Yes, the line had problems last year but is grading out well this one.
Teezee
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. Having no fb is a new look. But the fact that Cam will command so much attention, any rb is going to face one less defender in most instances. Running qbs enhance the run game tremendously and I'm betting that will be the equalizer to them not blocking well atm.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We will see how good the OL is without Andrews. They certainly fared better running the ball with Gronk and Develin (and Cannon). Michel only has a 3.3 ypc this year, which looks majestic compared to Burkhead’s 2.6 ypc. We can all agree Michel is not a positive, but certainly can debate if he is the only negative.
rockaction
Footballguy
Fair enough. I'm just on the lookout for Sony apologists. In retrospect, he was a pretty bad waste of a first unless you consider a goal line back in the playoffs first worthy.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, unless someone projects as a HOFer, drafting a RB in the first round is not a productive use of a pick. Teams can find decent RBs that weren’t first round picks and smart teams don’t pay them like a starting WR. Many backs struggle to stay healthy, which just adds more risk to the equation.
The only thing I can think of with Michel is he was way more banged up coming out of college than NE realized. Sometimes it happens. Even if they drafted Chubb instead, I would not have been a huge fan going RB there in the draft.
But Michel did average 112 yards and 2 TD per game in their SB playoff run, so they at least got something out of it. I have said along Sony is a liability, but I think he would have been slightly more effective with different personnel in the lineup. He is not a creator . . . he will only get what is schemed and blocked for him. Which recently hasn’t been much.
sandlotshrink
Footballguy
This is a tough call for sure. So many variables or scenarios in NE that I'm staying away. Whoever rolls the dice and wins, aside from Cam, deserves a trophy.
1)Cam is leading the backfield in attempts and taking the goal line work.
2) White could return from personal leve.
3) Burkhead has a role.
4) Michel is available and has been in the mix.
5) Now we introduce Harris into the mix after being on IR for 4 weeks.
6) let's not forget the most unpredictable combo of all - Belichick and McDaniels.
1)Cam is leading the backfield in attempts and taking the goal line work.
2) White could return from personal leve.
3) Burkhead has a role.
4) Michel is available and has been in the mix.
5) Now we introduce Harris into the mix after being on IR for 4 weeks.
6) let's not forget the most unpredictable combo of all - Belichick and McDaniels.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Neither one is sustainable but is definitely still a factor. The Pats aren’t going to stop running Cam cold turkey and they certainly will keep using him a ton at the goal line. Game script will be a big determining factor on how much they run the football. If they can control games like the Dolphins game, they will run a lot. If they fall behind like the Seahawks game, they will have to air it out. I guess it depends how much people buy in on the NE defense. If they do end up running a lot, BB has shown that he will use all the backs on the roster and not roll with a feature back.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
How about now?
Burkhead balls and he'll get picked up for big bids. Burkhead may have some relevance. White sits on someone else's bench, and Sony nobody wants him.
I may have to take a flyer on Harris while dropping Swift. All he has to do is start wowing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
NE leads the league in rushing WITHOUT Harris. Yet, he is going to step in and kick everyone else to the curb? That would be extremely anti-BB. He's been using multiple backs for years, they all have defined roles, and we still haven't seen Harris do anything other than average 3.0 ypc on 4 carries in garbage time last year. Before people point to the one big year Blount had, NE had Dion Lewis and DJ Foster go down with injuries that year, leaving only Blount and White as healthy running backs.
For those that are anti-Sony Michel, he displayed several times against the Raiders why they stick with him. His blitz pick up was superb, locking down both D-linemen, blitzing linebackers, and saving Newton's bacon multiple times. He took on guys all by himself and stood them up and locked them down. Maybe Harris can do that, but I have my doubts. And Michel also caught a couple of passes.
After two big runs against Las Vegas, Michel is up to a 6.7 ypc, and their three other backs are at 4.4. Plus White is coming back. And Burkhead just had roughly 100 YFS and 3 TD this past year. Maybe Harris gets added to the mix, but I don't see NE rushing to give him a heavy workload. Harris might be worth a redraft stash for owners with extra roster spots, but I don't think he will provide much in the early going. He would be more of a late in the year lottery ticket should other NE backs get hurt (which is always possible).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are so many creative liberties contained within this article that it almost isn't worth sorting them all out.
- Over the years, BB has gone easy on his starters in training camp. Guys that have seen a lot of action are usually guys that WON'T have big roles. Harris got a lot of work in camp because Michel and Miller were hurt and there was no real need to push Burkhead or White. Taylor got a lot of work, too.
- Harris looked good in training camp in mostly non-contact situations. Reports that he had length of the field scores in practice were a bit exaggerated. A lot of plays were used to clarify blocking assignments for the offense and keying assignments for the defense. Once Harris got to the second level, the play was called dead, even if Harris scampered past the secondary. Defenders did not make much attempt to tackle him or chase him down, yet in the press it went down as a 60 yard TD.
- Once Michel came back and they had real offense vs. defense scrimmages, Michel was the go to RB playing with the regular starting offense and Harris was relegated to the B team with Stidham and the second unit offense.
- Their math is suspect. They looked at the TOTAL number of team carries but not the carries by the RB's. The running backs are averaging 22 carries a game. Using their designated 40% number, that would equate to 8.8 carries a game . . . NOT the 15 that they want to give to Harris (they went with 40% of the team's carries). Cam is not going to stop running the ball.
- As I already covered earlier today, the RB's are doing a good job without Harris and White is also coming back. Michel plays because he is excellent at blitz pickup and pass blocking. Who knows if that is a strength of Harris?
- Also already covered, it seems hard to imagine that Harris would go from last in line for touches and a healthy game day scratch last year to head of the RB corps the next with essentially no offseason and hardly any practice. Now he's missed a month of practice, which certainly cannot work in his favor.
- The article seems ready to give Harris all the early down and goal line carries (which I don't think will happen) . . . forgetting that the goal line carries on NE are going to go to Cam.
Here is what Patriots RB Coach Ivan Fears had to say about Michel today . . .
And what he had to say about Harris . . .
And the situation once White comes back . . .
LINK
Fantasy wise, Harris is worth adding as a preemptive stash, but I wouldn't use a top waiver claim or a lot of blind bidding money to pick him up. There has already been talk of both potentially letting Harris spend another week or two on IR with their other backs healthy and performing . . . and easing Harris into the rotation once he comes back. I don't see him getting a ton of work over the next few weeks, so his fantasy value would have to come over the latter part of the season. IMO, it would take injuries to other NE backs for Harris to be a startable fantasy option. Maybe he will get 8-10 carries with hardly any receptions or scoring opportunities. That sounds like 3-5 fantasy points in any given week. And one missed blocking assignment or fumble and that could be the last we see of Harris for awhile.
I still think there are too many mouths to feed in the NE backfield, Cam takes too much away from the RB's, and none of the Patriots will be worth much fantasy wise as they will all be inconsistent and so much will pivot based on each week's game script.
After being allowed to stash Harris in my IR spot since the fantasy draft, I'll probably end up cutting him this week once Yahoo removes his IR tag.
The Pats backfield is as muddy as it is every year, and there have been plenty of other RB's to pick up through the first quarter of this season (J. Robinson, Gaskin, Kelley, Freeman, etc), making Harris droppable.
The Pats backfield is as muddy as it is every year, and there have been plenty of other RB's to pick up through the first quarter of this season (J. Robinson, Gaskin, Kelley, Freeman, etc), making Harris droppable.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Hold off on that. Michel is out for tonight and there is talk of Harris taking his spot against the Chiefs.
-jb-
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Well, if you listen to what people think NE will do against the Chiefs, Taylor could get 15 carries and Harris could still take Michel's spot. A lot of beat guys here are suggesting that the Pats will run and run and run some more tonight to keep the ball away from Mahomes. Of course, what they haven't stopped to consider is that they have been successful running the ball because of Newton. Unless there are folks that think soon-to-be-35-years-old (next week) Brian Hoyer will scare people running the RPO.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Added to my RB poor redraft crew.
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Dropped an IDP for him. Worth a stash in a big bench redraft.
Last edited by a moderator:
Boston
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Was offered Cam Akers in a Dynasty trade
What are you getting asking for for Harris?
What are you getting asking for for Harris?
tombonneau
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Seems like Burkhead is getting the love from FBG's this week, yet Harris a fav for ROS.
It's the Patriots backfield we are scouring once again for the best play.
It's the Patriots backfield we are scouring once again for the best play.
