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RB Ezekiel Elliott, LAC (7 Viewers)

Bayhawks said:
If he did nothing wrong, he should fight it.  If he did something wrong, but thinks he can beat the rap, legally he should fight it.  He shouldn't put the greater good of the team ahead of himself.  If he wasn't a stud (or when he stops being one), the team would cut him without hesitation.  Look at what happened to his teamate this summer (WR-can't remember his name).  He was accused of something, cut immediately (because he wasn't a stud), then shown to have been innocent of whatever he had been accused of.  If the team isn't going to put the players first, why should the players put the team first?
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Because his whole life seems to be putting himself first. Might be a good leaping point to show some maturity. As for him doing nothing wrong, he's also beat up some club DJ and pulled a woman's shirt up at a sporting event. He seems like a real winner. 

 
JuniorNB said:
Because his whole life seems to be putting himself first. Might be a good leaping point to show some maturity. As for him doing nothing wrong, he's also beat up some club DJ and pulled a woman's shirt up at a sporting event. He seems like a real winner. 
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Let’s just say he was “dating” the women with the top. They spent time together after that incident.

Not sure about the fight.

I don’t know anything about this guy outside of this case and he’s a stud football player. Not a great guy? Maybe. But defending yourself in court doesn’t mean you are automatically a bad guy or you won’t grow as a person or whatever you are wanting from him here.

 
JuniorNB said:
Hopefully this idiot mans up and just accepts his fate. If he had done that from the beginning, the suspension will be over and he'd be helping his team win by now. Instead, he's been a distraction all season and he still has six games to serve. When are these guys going to understand that it's okay to say I screwed up
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Your idea of "manning up" is a joke. When a man is treated unfairly he fights against it

 
Short Corner said:
we already knew this after the Brady debacle.
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Yes, the 2nd Circuit said as much.  Their decision said that Goodell could make factual or legal errors in his ruling, but as long as he is acting within the CBA, the courts can't undo what he does.  Since the 2nd is going to be the one to decide any appeals the NFLPA makes on Zeke's behalf, winning an appeal looks like a long shot.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
It's an honest question.  I'm not saying he IS innocent.......I'm saying IF he was, should he "man up?"

Would you?   Why are you afraid to answer?
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Ha.  I'm afraid. of nothing. If I was a young punk with a history of trouble and bad decisions, I would stop this charade and just admit my mistakes and show my team that I've matured and become less selfish. The guy beat up a woman. Ray Rice never played again. Elliott should take his six games, stop putting the Cowboys in limbo, and grow up and move forward with his life.  He's no different than every other athlete who gets caught doing something they shouldn't. Deny deny deny. It all ends up the same. The PED guys who fail tests all end up serving a suspension for it. Brady served a suspension for deflategate. Greg Hardy served a suspension. They all appeal and deny because they are embarrassed and think it will tarnish their legacy. Dallas was a better team last year. And they should be better this year, as their stud players are not rookies anymore. But Elliott's season-long distraction is preventing them from doing so. Serve your six games and let Dallas start having Morris or McFadden run with the first team in practice. Then be back for the playoffs. The growing up can start right now.

 
JuniorNB said:
Ha.  I'm afraid. of nothing. If I was a young punk with a history of trouble and bad decisions, I would stop this charade and just admit my mistakes and show my team that I've matured and become less selfish. The guy beat up a woman. Ray Rice never played again. Elliott should take his six games, stop putting the Cowboys in limbo, and grow up and move forward with his life.  He's no different than every other athlete who gets caught doing something they shouldn't. Deny deny deny. It all ends up the same. The PED guys who fail tests all end up serving a suspension for it. Brady served a suspension for deflategate. Greg Hardy served a suspension. They all appeal and deny because they are embarrassed and think it will tarnish their legacy. Dallas was a better team last year. And they should be better this year, as their stud players are not rookies anymore. But Elliott's season-long distraction is preventing them from doing so. Serve your six games and let Dallas start having Morris or McFadden run with the first team in practice. Then be back for the playoffs. The growing up can start right now.
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Not going to get into what kind of man he is or whatever.

He will be back for the playoffs, nothing is stopping the Cowboys from playing Morris and McFadden now and preparing for it. The team I think was caught off guard by the timing of the suspension and length.

If you asked his teammates I’m guessing they’d be in favor of him running through the entire appeals process.

 
The General said:
Not going to get into what kind of man he is or whatever.

He will be back for the playoffs, nothing is stopping the Cowboys from playing Morris and McFadden now and preparing for it. The team I think was caught off guard by the timing of the suspension and length.

If you asked his teammates I’m guessing they’d be in favor of him running through the entire appeals process.
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I'm sure his teammates would show support for him. That's what teammates do. I also bet his teammates are hopping he grows up and takes anger management counseling and this is the last time they have to go through this.

 
JuniorNB said:
I'm sure his teammates would show support for him. That's what teammates do. I also bet his teammates are hopping he grows up and takes anger management counseling and this is the last time they have to go through this.
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That has nothing to do with him appealing his suspension.

 
The General said:
That has nothing to do with him appealing his suspension.
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Well I disagree with your premise that his teammates want him to keep going with this. As of now, he'll return in week 15. He keeps putting this off with appeals, he's going to get to a point where he can't serve all six games this season. If he still has even one more game to serve, he will be ineligible for the playoffs. The NFC is wide open this year. Dallas has as good of a chance as anyone. Not having Elliott for the playoffs would lessen their chances a great deal.

 
JuniorNB said:
Ha.  I'm afraid. of nothing. If I was a young punk with a history of trouble and bad decisions, I would stop this charade and just admit my mistakes and show my team that I've matured and become less selfish. The guy beat up a woman. Ray Rice never played again. Elliott should take his six games, stop putting the Cowboys in limbo, and grow up and move forward with his life.  He's no different than every other athlete who gets caught doing something they shouldn't. Deny deny deny. It all ends up the same. The PED guys who fail tests all end up serving a suspension for it. Brady served a suspension for deflategate. Greg Hardy served a suspension. They all appeal and deny because they are embarrassed and think it will tarnish their legacy. Dallas was a better team last year. And they should be better this year, as their stud players are not rookies anymore. But Elliott's season-long distraction is preventing them from doing so. Serve your six games and let Dallas start having Morris or McFadden run with the first team in practice. Then be back for the playoffs. The growing up can start right now.
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That didn't answer the question.

Here it is again.  If Elliott is innocent (meaning, he never hit this woman), should he "man up" and do all of the things you just described?  Admit a mistake that he didn't actually make?

 
JuniorNB said:
Well I disagree with your premise that his teammates want him to keep going with this. As of now, he'll return in week 15. He keeps putting this off with appeals, he's going to get to a point where he can't serve all six games this season. If he still has even one more game to serve, he will be ineligible for the playoffs. The NFC is wide open this year. Dallas has as good of a chance as anyone. Not having Elliott for the playoffs would lessen their chances a great deal.
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Missing the playoffs would be a deal breaker I think for him and the team but we will see. Every time they get to a new step of this we find out more.

Bottom line for me is the NFL needs to get out of this current system of suspending players for their conduct off the field. They suck at it. They aren’t equipped to do this.

 
theplayer11 said:
so zeke's lawyers screwed up by filing too early..or this would not have been heard in NY..correct?
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No, they took their best shot.  Legally, they can't file a suit until there's a reason to do so (the final decision has been made), but the NFL filed a suit in SDNY IMMEDIATELY after they issued their decision, (to have it upheld by the courts).  The NFLPA would not have been able to file their suit elsewhere until they knew the decision, and by the time they knew the decision, the NFL suit would have already been filed & they would have still ended up in SDNY. 

 
It's funny... but I said it before that the NFLPA should've went all in  supporting Colin Kaepernick's lawsuit against the owners. One of the interesting side effects is that if they proved some form of owner collusion in his case, it would result in an immediate dissolution of the current CBA. Goddell would finally lose full discretionary power and would never get it back.

 
The Frankman said:
It's funny... but I said it before that the NFLPA should've went all in  supporting Colin Kaepernick's lawsuit against the owners. One of the interesting side effects is that if they proved some form of owner collusion in his case, it would result in an immediate dissolution of the current CBA. Goddell would finally lose full discretionary power and would never get it back.
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I had heard that early and that how that could have come out of the Kaep situation. That would have been a mess.

I would guess that Goodell wouldn’t mind negotiating this power away in the next deal. He’ll get something for the owners and league out of it in return and also doesn’t have to deal with this crap.

 
davearm said:
That didn't answer the question.

Here it is again.  If Elliott is innocent (meaning, he never hit this woman), should he "man up" and do all of the things you just described?  Admit a mistake that he didn't actually make?
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If the Earth was flat, would you dare try to sail around it?   If you've bought into some fantasy that this assault never happened at all, then of course you think he should appeal. And he never lifted the girl's shirt. And he never beat up some club DJ.  He's actually a great guy.

I understand that this is a fantasy football board and for the most part, anyone interested in this thread is a Cowboy fan or an Elliott owner. So most want to believe this never happened. 25 points a week is hard to replace. But we all know this is a case of a punk who keeps making bad choices. The fact that there's no video gives him hope that someone might believe that he's a great guy and is totally innocent. We all know better than that. 

 
The General said:
I had heard that early and that how that could have come out of the Kaep situation. That would have been a mess.

I would guess that Goodell wouldn’t mind negotiating this power away in the next deal. He’ll get something for the owners and league out of it in return and also doesn’t have to deal with this crap.
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What? Heck no he won't, dude is loving this... 

 
The General said:
Missing the playoffs would be a deal breaker I think for him and the team but we will see. Every time they get to a new step of this we find out more.

Bottom line for me is the NFL needs to get out of this current system of suspending players for their conduct off the field. They suck at it. They aren’t equipped to do this.
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I don't necessarily think that they suck at it. It's just that fans have a vested interest and hate to see their players missing games. 

 
JuniorNB said:
If the Earth was flat, would you dare try to sail around it?   If you've bought into some fantasy that this assault never happened at all, then of course you think he should appeal. And he never lifted the girl's shirt. And he never beat up some club DJ.  He's actually a great guy.

I understand that this is a fantasy football board and for the most part, anyone interested in this thread is a Cowboy fan or an Elliott owner. So most want to believe this never happened. 25 points a week is hard to replace. But we all know this is a case of a punk who keeps making bad choices. The fact that there's no video gives him hope that someone might believe that he's a great guy and is totally innocent. We all know better than that. 
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Continuing to refuse to answer the question.

 
JuniorNB said:
Ha.  I'm afraid. of nothing. If I was a young punk with a history of trouble and bad decisions, I would stop this charade and just admit my mistakes and show my team that I've matured and become less selfish. The guy beat up a woman. Ray Rice never played again. Elliott should take his six games, stop putting the Cowboys in limbo, and grow up and move forward with his life.  He's no different than every other athlete who gets caught doing something they shouldn't. Deny deny deny. It all ends up the same. The PED guys who fail tests all end up serving a suspension for it. Brady served a suspension for deflategate. Greg Hardy served a suspension. They all appeal and deny because they are embarrassed and think it will tarnish their legacy. Dallas was a better team last year. And they should be better this year, as their stud players are not rookies anymore. But Elliott's season-long distraction is preventing them from doing so. Serve your six games and let Dallas start having Morris or McFadden run with the first team in practice. Then be back for the playoffs. The growing up can start right now.
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whole whack of conjecture in this rant.  wouldn't even know where to start.

 
JuniorNB said:
If the Earth was flat, would you dare try to sail around it?   If you've bought into some fantasy that this assault never happened at all, then of course you think he should appeal. And he never lifted the girl's shirt. And he never beat up some club DJ.  He's actually a great guy.

I understand that this is a fantasy football board and for the most part, anyone interested in this thread is a Cowboy fan or an Elliott owner. So most want to believe this never happened. 25 points a week is hard to replace. But we all know this is a case of a punk who keeps making bad choices. The fact that there's no video gives him hope that someone might believe that he's a great guy and is totally innocent. We all know better than that. 
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The police didn’t press charges and the NFL’s own investigator found the accuser unreliable. I don’t know what happened there and I’ll guess you don’t either. Ugly situation certainly but I’ll defer to the police.

He was with the shirt girl after the flashing thing. I wouldn’t get too carried away with what happened there.

Not sure about a DJ fight. What details are there with that?

 
The General said:
Ray Rice, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy, this case were all handled really badly. They suck at this.
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They eventually got the majority of them right. Ray Rice was eventually turned into a good decision because of the video coming out. Unfortunately, there is rarely video. Which is why lying and denying becomes the go-to defense. This makes decision making difficult. 

 
The General said:
The police didn’t press charges and the NFL’s own investigator found the accuser unreliable. I don’t know what happened there and I’ll guess you don’t either. Ugly situation certainly but I’ll defer to the police.

He was with the shirt girl after the flashing thing. I wouldn’t get too carried away with what happened there.

Not sure about a DJ fight. What details are there with that?
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This whole thing is another black eye for the NFL. 

 
Well, well, well...

I understand how she was able to render a 20 or so page explanation in 3 hours.

ProFootballTalk‏Verified account @ProFootballTalk 1m1 minute ago

The judge who resurrected Ezekiel Elliott's suspension is married to a partner at the NFL's lockout/CBA firm https://wp.me/p14QSB-armB

 
JuniorNB said:
They eventually got the majority of them right. Ray Rice was eventually turned into a good decision because of the video coming out. Unfortunately, there is rarely video. Which is why lying and denying becomes the go-to defense. This makes decision making difficult. 
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Okay. We’ll agree to disagree on that.

 
JuniorNB said:
They eventually got the majority of them right. Ray Rice was eventually turned into a good decision because of the video coming out. Unfortunately, there is rarely video. Which is why lying and denying becomes the go-to defense. This makes decision making difficult. 
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They got Ray Rice "right" after the video was released to the public and there was an outcry. Josh Brown was botched as well, until there was public outcry. Greg Hardy's case was a slam dunk. But this Zeke thing... where is the information on what he allegedly did? 

 
Tommy Collins said:
They got Ray Rice "right" after the video was released to the public and there was an outcry. Josh Brown was botched as well, until there was public outcry. Greg Hardy's case was a slam dunk. But this Zeke thing... where is the information on what he allegedly did? 
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Goodell heard the information. He didn't just flip a coin to make a decision. We didn't have the advantage of hearing what Goodell has heard. So our tendency is to believe what we want to believe. Goodell doesn't gain any advantage for his league/product by keeping it's stars on the sideline. Not sure what people think his agenda is other than to clean up the league.

 
Tommy Collins said:
They got Ray Rice "right" after the video was released to the public and there was an outcry. Josh Brown was botched as well, until there was public outcry. Greg Hardy's case was a slam dunk. But this Zeke thing... where is the information on what he allegedly did? 
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Greg Hardy got reduced to 2 games for all the crazy #### he did. That was handled really, really badly.

They suck at this.

 
JuniorNB said:
Goodell heard the information. He didn't just flip a coin to make a decision. We didn't have the advantage of hearing what Goodell has heard. So our tendency is to believe what we want to believe. Goodell doesn't gain any advantage for his league/product by keeping it's stars on the sideline. Not sure what people think his agenda is other than to clean up the league.
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No he sucks at this, he gets these conclusions that have been off base then is forced to fight for it.

They are constantly over their skis in these situations.

 
The General said:
No he sucks at this, he gets these conclusions that have been off base then is forced to fight for it.

They are constantly over their skis in these situations.
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I think there's definitely a trend to get tougher on the domestic violence stuff. And I applaud that. I agree with you on the fact that Hardy's penalty was too light. Hardy's case got thrown out because the victim failed to show up to the hearing. Many reports out there that she was bullied/threatened out of testifying.  I think from that point on, Goodell stopped using the legal system as a basis for his penalties.

 
JuniorNB said:
Goodell heard the information. He didn't just flip a coin to make a decision. We didn't have the advantage of hearing what Goodell has heard. So our tendency is to believe what we want to believe. Goodell doesn't gain any advantage for his league/product by keeping it's stars on the sideline. Not sure what people think his agenda is other than to clean up the league.
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Personally, I'm in favor of a suspension but think they went a couple games too far. But this part of the story is crazy to me. I can understand that there are times you don't want to speak directly to the victim (too traumatic for victim/victim already bought out) but to not speak to your own investigator?

Article 46 makes clear that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell issues punishments for conduct detrimental to the NFL. Further, Article 46 stipulates that should a player appeal a suspension for conduct detrimental, Goodell or a designate of his choosing serves as the presiding officer (arbitrator). Importantly, Article 46 does not obligate the punisher (Goodell) or arbitrator (Goodell in Brady; Henderson in Elliott) to hear directly from an accuser or from any particular witness. Likewise, Article 46 does not obligate them to accord more weight to one witness than to another. These were meaningful points in Brady as they are in Elliott.

In Brady, the NFLPA sought to cross-examine co-lead “independent” investigator (and NFL general counsel) Jeffrey Pash. Goodell denied that request. Pash would seemingly have been a critical witness in explaining and defending factual and scientific conclusions made by the NFL against Brady. Judge Parker, however, reasoned that for Brady to enjoy a right to cross-examine Pash, such a right must be expressed in the CBA. It isn’t.

A similar issue has emerged in Elliott: Goodell neither spoke with Elliott’s accuser, Tiffany Thompson, nor with Kia Roberts, the lone NFL investigator who actually spoke with Thompson—and who doubted Thompson’s allegations. Like Judge Parker before her, Judge Failla did not find such unfairness to be legally actionable. This is because nowhere in the CBA does it say that Goodell had to speak with an accuser or investigator—or anyone else, for that matter.
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https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/31/why-ezekiel-elliotts-suspension-was-reinstated

 
JaxBill said:
Personally, I'm in favor of a suspension but think they went a couple games too far. But this part of the story is crazy to me. I can understand that there are times you don't want to speak directly to the victim (too traumatic for victim/victim already bought out) but to not speak to your own investigator?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/31/why-ezekiel-elliotts-suspension-was-reinstated
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I have brought that up a few times. More examples of how the NFL/Goodell sucks at this.

I’m not looking to defend Zeke but the cops didn’t press charges. His behavior put the league in a bad light so they are going to come after him. There’s an argument there but how they got 6 games is anyone’s guess. There has to be a better way to do this.

 
The General said:
I have brought that up a few times. More examples of how the NFL/Goodell sucks at this.

I’m not looking to defend Zeke but the cops didn’t press charges. His behavior put the league in a bad light so they are going to come after him. There’s an argument there but how they got 6 games is anyone’s guess. There has to be a better way to do this.
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i thought the number 6 was what they have written is as the penalty for domestic violence.  which they seem to think hes guilty of.

 
WheelsUp said:
Roto put out this blurb, but be careful, because that is not what jones said.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said Alfred Morris will be the No. 1 running back while Ezekiel Elliott is suspended.
It makes sense considering Morris has been active ahead of Darren McFadden to this point in the season, but Jones did say both McFadden and Rod Smith will have roles. Morris is the best bet of the bunch, but McFadden is worth a speculative add in all leagues as well while Smith is worth a look in deep formats.
Related: Darren McFadden
Source: Jon Machota on Twitter Oct 31 - 10:00 AM

Here is the sourced tweet--
Jon Machota‏Verified account @jonmachota
Follow Follow @jonmachota

Jerry Jones on @1053thefan said Alfred Morris will get more carries but Darren McFadden and Rod Smith will get more work too
9:45 AM - 31 Oct 2017
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:goodposting: Always a good idea to verify rotoworld blurbs.  They sometimes spin things in very weird ways.

 
Payne said:
Might this news about the judge bring a change in the ruling?
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I'd say probably not.  Her husband didn't work on the CBA for the NFL, which is how it's being presented.  He is an insurance lawyer for the firm who worked on the CBA for the NFL.  There's (AFAIK) no real connection between he and the NFL.  Furthermore, even if he had been directly involved with the NFL, it is still questionable as to whether that would/should have required Failla to recuse herself.  The NFLPA would have to prove some sort of "foul play," which based on what we know as or right now, seems impossible.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Elliott or NFLPA will have to seek to have her recused or it won't matter.
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Right, but even if they do so, they'd likely be unsuccessful.  Then the judge who is hearing your case is the same person that you essentially called dishonest when you tried to force her to recuse herself.  Not necessarily the smartest move.

 
Bayhawks said:
Right, but even if they do so, they'd likely be unsuccessful.  Then the judge who is hearing your case is the same person that you essentially called dishonest when you tried to force her to recuse herself.  Not necessarily the smartest move.
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Hey I agree after reading the linked article. 

 
FWIW, this was the "worst case scenario" that had me really stay away from Elliott (did try to deal for him once, but that was at beginning of the season).

At this point, the BEST case for competitive fantasy teams is that he sits out and you get to week 15 (either first week or your playoffs)... even that's risky, as you likely don't have him week 14 when most playoffs start, and he won't be there to help get you a bye if one is available.

To the real football at hand, it seems also that this has been tough on the cowboys... would it have been better for them to just focus on football, suck up the punishment and have Elliott sit the 6 games so they could then bring him back into the fold and build a coherent run for the playoffs?

Even had they gotten through the first couple weeks, then said ok, now it's time to sit, he would be back in the fold by now.  Instead, until these past two weeks the guy looked very unfocused and was not especially productive, he finally gets things into gear, and now will be out of football until week 15.

Seems to be a worst case both fantasy wise and from the boys' perspective as well. 

 
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