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RB Javonte Williams, DEN (1 Viewer)

I get the Williams hype. But anybody downplaying Gordon is really kidding themselves. He was running powerfully all night. Averaged about 6 a carry. He is going to play and play a lot. Forget age. Guy seems low miles and has plenty in the tank. Williams doesn’t look like a 25 touch workhouse back. Timeshare will remain barring injury and it’ll be closer to 55-45.
I realize Gordon is going to be involved this season but what about Williams makes you think he doesn’t look like a workhorse back? He’s 5’10, 220 pounds with elite burst and is a very capable receiving option out of the backfield.
Workhorse backs don’t get 7 carries. Ever. So the coaches don’t think he’s a workhorse back - that’s what matters
Do they get 18 touches? Does that not matter?
Less punishment on screens.
 
I get the Williams hype. But anybody downplaying Gordon is really kidding themselves. He was running powerfully all night. Averaged about 6 a carry. He is going to play and play a lot. Forget age. Guy seems low miles and has plenty in the tank. Williams doesn’t look like a 25 touch workhouse back. Timeshare will remain barring injury and it’ll be closer to 55-45.
I realize Gordon is going to be involved this season but what about Williams makes you think he doesn’t look like a workhorse back? He’s 5’10, 220 pounds with elite burst and is a very capable receiving option out of the backfield.
Workhorse backs don’t get 7 carries. Ever. So the coaches don’t think he’s a workhorse back - that’s what matters
You said he doesn't "look like one". That's much different than what you're saying now - but even looking at it from that angle based on last night my guess is as the season wears on Williams touches increase at the expense of Gordon.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
Williams played with Michael Carter for his entire tenure at UNC and he's pretty good too. I don't think Javonte hasn't been a true workhorse because coaches are worried he can't withstand the workload, it seems more like to be because they have other excellent options so why beat the heck out of one guy?
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
He just got 18 touches but some in here are more concerned with “he only got 7 carries.” IIRC, there were only 9 RB that averaged 18 touches and played in 10 games last year. The league has gotten away from the every down back like we saw 20 years ago.
 
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Great in PPR obviously. Less so In standard. We’ll see if that continues. 2 different coaching staffs feels this is a reasonable timeshare.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
Williams played with Michael Carter for his entire tenure at UNC and he's pretty good too. I don't think Javonte hasn't been a true workhorse because coaches are worried he can't withstand the workload, it seems more like to be because they have other excellent options so why beat the heck out of one guy?
Exactly right. And it's not like we're lacking the statistics that show us that there is a carry cliff.

Denver has the luxury of two good, similar backs. Makes complete sense to me to have them equally share the workload. Probably helps with play calling, too, assuming the coordinator can trust them equally/comparably in all situations.
 
Great in PPR obviously. Less so In standard. We’ll see if that continues. 2 different coaching staffs feels this is a reasonable timeshare.
I'm not entirely following here. He had over 100 yards and got looks in the red zone/goal-line (including a fumble at the goal-line).

Based on his ADP in redraft, I fail to see the issue.
 
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Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
He just got 18 touches but some in here are more concerned with “he only got 7 carries.” IIRC, there were only 9 RB that averaged 18 touches and played it n 10 games last year. The league has gotten away from the every down back like we saw 20 years ago.
Then why mention his college workload, and why talk about 400+ touches or a huge uptick in volume when no one is suggesting that? He's perfectly capable of being the 10th RB to average 18 touches per game.

I don't think anyone would complain if he got the same 18 touches every week, but it seems obvious that 11 catches isn't sustainable. It's just a bit odd why Gordon would have 5 more carries despite Williams being more effective, but there were plenty of coaching blunders in that game. It's only week 1.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
He just got 18 touches but some in here are more concerned with “he only got 7 carries.” IIRC, there were only 9 RB that averaged 18 touches and played it n 10 games last year. The league has gotten away from the every down back like we saw 20 years ago.
Then why mention his college workload, and why talk about 400+ touches or a huge uptick in volume when no one is suggesting that? He's perfectly capable of being the 10th RB to average 18 touches per game.

I don't think anyone would complain if he got the same 18 touches every week, but it seems obvious that 11 catches isn't sustainable. It's just a bit odd why Gordon would have 5 more carries despite Williams being more effective, but there were plenty of coaching blunders in that game. It's only week 1.
I honestly thought Gordon looked better in the first part of the game. :shrug:
 
Peyton and Eli had Shannon Sharpe on at the end of the game. He went on and on about how Williams should be the started and only come out when he needs a blow. He said its impossible for him to get in a rhythm and he is superior to Gordon. For what its worth. BTW, I love the ManningCast.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
He just got 18 touches but some in here are more concerned with “he only got 7 carries.” IIRC, there were only 9 RB that averaged 18 touches and played it n 10 games last year. The league has gotten away from the every down back like we saw 20 years ago.
Then why mention his college workload, and why talk about 400+ touches or a huge uptick in volume when no one is suggesting that? He's perfectly capable of being the 10th RB to average 18 touches per game.

I don't think anyone would complain if he got the same 18 touches every week, but it seems obvious that 11 catches isn't sustainable. It's just a bit odd why Gordon would have 5 more carries despite Williams being more effective, but there were plenty of coaching blunders in that game. It's only week 1.
I honestly thought Gordon looked better in the first part of the game. :shrug:
Pretty sure you'd be in the small minority there. Williams' 1st 3 carries went for 9, 10, and 13 yards and Gordon was 5, 8, and 5. Williams also more effective as a receiver.
 
I honestly thought Gordon looked better in the first part of the game. :shrug:
Gordon has been sold short in this thread since it started. He is a player and did look very good last night, but he didn't look better than Javonte in the first part of the game or really at any part of the game.

Javonte had five carries in the first half, all on first down:
-1st & 10 at DEN 36
(10:26 - 1st) J.Williams right end pushed ob at DEN 45 for 9 yards (C.Barton).
-1st & 10 at SEA 28
(9:04 - 1st) J.Williams right end pushed ob at SEA 18 for 10 yards (J.Adams).
-1st & 10 at DEN 7
(2:55 - 1st) J.Williams right tackle to DEN 20 for 13 yards (J.Adams).
-1st & 10 at DEN 25
(7:20 - 2nd) J.Williams right guard to DEN 24 for -1 yards (M.Jackson).
-1st & 10 at DEN 21
(2:19 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Williams right end to DEN 31 for 10 yards (M.Jackson).

Five carries 41 yards. Again, all on first down and he picked up 3 first downs and set up a 2nd & 1 on another.

Melvin had three first half carries:
-2nd & 15 at SEA 23
(8:25 - 1st) M.Gordon right guard to SEA 18 for 5 yards (S.Harris; J.Coleman).
-2nd & 3 at DEN 39
(0:54 - 1st) M.Gordon left guard to DEN 47 for 8 yards (J.Brooks, Q.Diggs).
-2nd & 17 at DEN 40
(14:14 - 2nd) M.Gordon left guard to DEN 45 for 5 yards (C.Barton; J.Brooks).

Three carries 18 yards all on 2nd and long or 2nd & short, which typically suggests the defense will be more pass oriented or neutral.


Same story in the passing game.
Javonte in the first half:
-1st & 10 at SEA 18
(8:34 - 1st) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to J.Williams (J.Adams).
-2nd & 11 at DEN 24
(6:34 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to J.Williams to DEN 33 for 9 yards (J.Brooks).
-1st & 10 at DEN 31
(2:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to J.Williams to DEN 44 for 13 yards (U.Nwosu; Q.Diggs).
-3rd & 18 at SEA 32
(0:26 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to J.Williams to SEA 22 for 10 yards (Q.Jefferson, Q.Diggs).

4 targets, 3-32-0

Gordon in the first half:
3rd & 10 at SEA 18
(7:41 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Gordon to SEA 12 for 6 yards (J.Coleman).
 
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How is a hundred yards and a shot at a TD not good in standard again?
I am baffled by the complaints about workload. Javonte got early work, got some goal-line run, and looks like he's going to get quite a bit more targets than Gordon. I was pretty pleased with that. A target is worth almost 2 carries in opportunity, even in standard.
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.
And Najee Harris only had 20+ carries 4 times in 38 games during his first 3 years (Williams left after 3).

No one projects to 400+ touches, and virtually no one is suggesting that he should have a huge uptick in volume. Instead of 15 per game, more like 18-19 is reasonable.
He just got 18 touches but some in here are more concerned with “he only got 7 carries.” IIRC, there were only 9 RB that averaged 18 touches and played it n 10 games last year. The league has gotten away from the every down back like we saw 20 years ago.
Then why mention his college workload, and why talk about 400+ touches or a huge uptick in volume when no one is suggesting that? He's perfectly capable of being the 10th RB to average 18 touches per game.

I don't think anyone would complain if he got the same 18 touches every week, but it seems obvious that 11 catches isn't sustainable. It's just a bit odd why Gordon would have 5 more carries despite Williams being more effective, but there were plenty of coaching blunders in that game. It's only week 1.
I honestly thought Gordon looked better in the first part of the game. :shrug:
Pretty sure you'd be in the small minority there. Williams' 1st 3 carries went for 9, 10, and 13 yards and Gordon was 5, 8, and 5. Williams also more effective as a receiver.
I may be. I didn't look at the stats. Just was may amateur impressions (I have shares of both backs so I think I was being objective).
 
Javonte has the potential be in Jonathan Taylor type company. The issue is that Melvin Gordon is one of the best back-up running backs in the league, and the Broncos play calling was also not great, and they got away from the run early on. Javonte looked so much better than Gordon. Gordon was good, but Javonte was one of those players that was exciting to watch every time he touched the ball. Outside of fantasy I just wanted to see him touch the ball more, and I am not a Broncos fan. He breaks tackles, looks explosive, and runs hard. I honestly thought that on several of Denver's drives they could have done better if they had kept Javonte in the game. They kept switching out of the backs every couple of series and honestly it felt like it was messing up the flow of the offense. Hopefully the coaching staff stops making poor choices, and realizes what they have with this elite back. He made something out of nothing on so many plays.

The fact that he caught 11 out of 12 targets just shows even more how much potential he has in fantasy to be an elite back as well. Gordon should see less and less touches as the season goes on and the Broncos want to win
 
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It's interesting that you say he's the best back up RB in the league. Any thoughts on why no other team in the league had any interest in him for 2 mil?
 
It's interesting that you say he's the best back up RB in the league. Any thoughts on why no other team in the league had any interest in him for 2 mil?
He's not the best backup in the league but he's up there. There are lots of reasons: Maybe he didn't have interest in them? Maybe he was waiting on a an offer from a contender, or an injury in TC?
 
Williams averaged 13 carries and under 2 catches a game in his last 2 seasons at UNC. He wasn't used as a 20-25 carry back very often. In college, he had 20+ carries 4 times in 34 games (and only 1 game with 20+ carries so far in DEN). Whether Gordon is in DEN or not, Williams is not going to project to 400+ touches over a full season. He's better off with more catches than rushing attempts anyway . . . he'll take less of a pounding as a receiver. If the Broncos were winning, game script would have had him rushing more than receiving. He's averaged 15 touches a game for the Broncos. I don't think he suddenly is going to see a huge uptick in volume.

I'm not sure college usage necessarily matters that much.

Last year 3 of the top 5 in the NFL in touches (Mixon, Gibson, Kamara) were not even the lead RBs on their team in college, much less a workhorse.
 

The Athletic's Nick Kosmider believes Javonte Williams will continue serving as the Broncos' primary pass-catching back.​

Broncos coaches confirmed that Williams' 11 receptions on 12 targets in Week 1 were no fluke, and that the second-year running back would continue as a central part of Denver's passing offense. "The Week 1 loss in Seattle offered a glimpse of what the Broncos believe Williams can be in this offense, a versatile weapon who could be earmarked for a bigger role in the passing game while also putting together another tackle-breaking highlight reel as a rusher," Kosmider said. "Expect to see him get the ball in more creative ways in Week 2." Williams ran a route on a strong 63 percent of Russell Wilson's Week 1 drop backs, drawing a target on 42.8 percent of his routes. Wilson targeted running backs on a remarkable 41 percent of his throws against the Seahawks. Williams' pass-game usage should make him a high-end PPR option even if Melvin Gordon continues as the team's primary goal line back.
RELATED:
SOURCE: The Athletic
Sep 16, 2022, 9:01 AM ET
 

Javonte Williams rushed 15 times for 75 yards in Denver's Week 2 win over the Texans, adding one catch for 10 yards on four targets.​

Williams broke several tackles, as we have come to expect, and looked explosive despite good penetration from the Houston front seven against Denver's offensive line. The Texans rarely kept eight in the box against Williams outside of the clock-killing final drive where Williams lost a yard on three carries. The head of Denver's RBBC with Melvin Gordon, Williams will face a rough matchup against a 49ers team that allowed 36 rushing yards in Week 2 and 2.7 yards per carry in Week 1.
Sep 18, 2022, 8:14 PM ET
 

Javonte Williams rushed 15 times for 58 yards in Denver's Week 3 win over San Francisco, adding three catches for two yards on five targets.​

Denver built an 11-play, 58-yard drive off five Williams carries for 39 yards in the second quarter. While the targets look good in the box score, none of Williams' catches happen in a position for him to go anywhere without breaking tackles. Williams more-or-less alternated plays with Melvin Gordon despite looking more explosive, which will come as a surprise to nobody who has paid attention to Broncos football over the last year and three games. A juicy matchup against a Raiders team that allowed Derrick Henry to get his groove back is on tap for Week 4.
Sep 25, 2022, 11:45 PM ET
 
As someone who rosters him on 2 dynasty leagues, I guess I’m waiting til next year (or an injury to Gordon) for him to finally take off.
 
Idk. Think getting the Broncos to not have eight 3&outs last night had a lot to do with this. Would like to see them at least insert a wrinkle of the RPO with Wilson. Not a lot, but at least 5-6 plays per game just to keep defensive ends honest. They only made it in the red zone once the entire game. Not expecting him to finish as a top 5,but I still think he has a high probability of ending in the 10-12 range where he was drafted.
 
When Gordon stayed, I didn't have the highest hopes for him, but this is really some crazy stuff

Gordon has fumbled at least 3 times in 3 weeks (Javonte has one) and why is Mike Boone seeing the field semi regularly when you have these two?
 
They almost always know when it's an ACL immediately.

Sucks. But if you got a team in dynasty not off to a great start or a surplus of RB's I'd not hesitate to make a move for him at his obviously discounted costs. Unfortunately for me my least competitive dynasty team already has him on it.

As for the Bronco's I got to wonder if they have interest in Mattison considering Patton was on the staff that drafted him and it's been reported earlier he was available.
 
Awful news for the Broncos & Javonte.

Possibly good news for Russ Wilson/Sutton/Jeudy/Hamler/FF, as Gordon is proving to be unreliable with the fumbles, and the Broncos run/pass balance might shift towards the latter.

Hopefully JaWill makes a full recovery in time for next year - at least it happened early in the season. Silver lining for dynasty owners, and for the Broncos/JaWill.
 

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