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RB Khalil Herbert, CHI (2 Viewers)

Brunell4MVP

Footballguy
If anything he was underutilized at VT.  There were halves where Coach Fuente would inexplicably sit him out.  Several games he had less than 3 carries in a half, yet he was by far their biggest weapon.  As a VT fan it was frustrating.  Maybe the coach felt the season was meaningless and didn't want to run him into the ground, but if not it was horrible coaching.

As far as how he translates to the NFL, he does a lot of good running by using vision and setting up blocks.  Basically sees the defense, then cuts and hits the hole hard.  He gets to speed quickly with a nice burst.  He does not have NFL level elite speed, but he's got a solid lower body and is tough to bring down on the initial tackle.  But he's good for a lot of solid runs.  He has better hands than his receiving stats will show.  The QBs could never throw a screen on target.

He reminds me a lot of a slightly less powerful Maurice Jones-Drew.

 
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JohnnyU

Footballguy
Interesting prospect that will go later in dynasty drafts.  He's one that I need to do more research on and plan to.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Why is it so difficult to find the age of some players?  I cannot find a birth date on Herbert.  He was a freshman in 2016 at Kansas, so I suspect he's either 23 or 24 now because he was a redshirt senior at VT.  Anyone know for sure?  My guess is that he may be 24.  That's old for a rookie RB now matter how you slice it.  I'll pass in dynasty for that reason alone.

 
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menobrown

Footballguy
Why is it so difficult to find the age of some players?  I cannot find a birth date on Herbert.  He was a freshman in 2016 at Kansas, so I suspect he's either 23 or 24 now because he was a redshirt senior at VT.  Anyone know for sure?  My guess is that he may be 24.  That's old for a rookie RB now matter how you slice it.  I'll pass in dynasty for that reason alone.
He'll turn 23 just before the draft.

 

menobrown

Footballguy
No, I can't access their site without subscribing.  I find it odd that some players have it so their birth date isn't listed and some players are listed everywhere.  I guess when you're a redshirt senior he probably doesn't want to broadcast that information.
Not trying to push that site but I'd sign up for a trial. If you don't like it I'd be surprised.

I don't think Herbert is trying to hide that info. Every single year there are a few players who it is hard to get that info on and some are young. Often the info is incorrect as well. This came up in a thread here last year or previous year were several FBG members pointed out players date of birth, players who had been in the league for years, was not showing correctly on the players main page. I recall finding out Trent Richardson was a year older then I saw him listed when he was in his second year. No idea why obtaining this info is so difficult.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Not trying to push that site but I'd sign up for a trial. If you don't like it I'd be surprised.

I don't think Herbert is trying to hide that info. Every single year there are a few players who it is hard to get that info on and some are young. Often the info is incorrect as well. This came up in a thread here last year or previous year were several FBG members pointed out players date of birth, players who had been in the league for years, was not showing correctly on the players main page. I recall finding out Trent Richardson was a year older then I saw him listed when he was in his second year. No idea why obtaining this info is so difficult.
Either way, by the time he is relevant, if he's ever relevant, he will be 25 or older most likely.  No thanks in dynasty.

 
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menobrown

Footballguy
Maybe if your team is already competitive, but if a team needs lots of pieces, Herbert won't be it by the time they are ready to compete. 


You are not wrong IMO to be lower on Najee and Herbert for being 23. I'm 100% in agreement, it's a negative factor and part of their equation.

But I don't see this the way you are seeing it for these 23 year old RB's. RB's don't have a long shelf life anyway but most of all they don't need to take a lot of time to be NFL ready. This idea that if Herbert was actually good he's not be helping your team until his third season when he's 25 is not one I can support. And honestly the age issue is far less of a factor for someone like Herbert then say Najee because of cost. If you think Herbert can play, for what you'll need to pay for him, if he gets you a year or two it's a win for most people.

I'm not stumping for Herbert here, just saying I'm not tossing him aside because he's 23. That link I attached he was ranked as RB7. I'm not that high on him even if he was 21.

 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
You are not wrong IMO to be lower on Najee and Herbert for being 23. I'm 100% in agreement, it's a negative factor and part of their equation.

But I don't see this the way you are seeing it for these 23 year old RB's. RB's don't have a long shelf life anyway but most of all they don't need to take a lot of time to be NFL ready. This idea that if Herbert was actually good he's not be helping your team until his third season when he's 25 is not one I can support. And honestly the age issue is far less of a factor for someone like Herbert then say Najee because of cost. If you think Herbert can play, for what you'll need to pay for him, if he gets you a year or two it's a win for most people.

I'm not stumping for Herbert here, just saying I'm not tossing him aside because he's 23. That link I attached he was ranked as RB7. I'm not that high on him even if he was 21.
I suppose if it's in the 4th round of my rookie draft and he's there, I might pull the trigger.  At that cost who cares, right?

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
I suppose if it's in the 4th round of my rookie draft and he's there, I might pull the trigger.  At that cost who cares, right?
Maybe I'm on an island, but at this point in the season I've generally moved onto identifying 3rd and 4th rounders to target. If new information comes to light on the top 20-25 then I'll reconsider, but we are also quickly nearing the peak of noise season. Subjects like Herbert interest me more than ones like Najee. 

 

Faust

MVP
Michael Renner from PFF has Khalil Herbert as RB #6:

2021 NFL Draft running back rankings

Excerpt:

6. KHALIL HERBERT, VIRGINIA TECH

Herbert didn’t technically come out of nowhere, but Kansas might as well be the Power 5 equivalent. After leaving the Jayhawks midway through 2019, Herbert ended up at Virginia Tech this fall and was one of the country's most productive backs on a per-touch basis. He averaged 7.6 yards per carry — 4.7 of which came after contact — and he broke 42 tackles on 155 attempts.

At 5-foot-9, 212 pounds, Herbert is thickly built and low to the earth. That low center of gravity, well, it helps with leverage battles.

https://twitter.com/boomorbustdraft/status/1354493672704901120?s=21

It also makes you think that those YAC and broken tackle numbers are no fluke. Herbert has the kind of juice and skill set to step in and start right away at the next level. He’s likely the last one in these rankings I’d feel comfortable saying that about.

 

ZWK

Footballguy
Why is it so difficult to find the age of some players?  I cannot find a birth date on Herbert.  He was a freshman in 2016 at Kansas, so I suspect he's either 23 or 24 now because he was a redshirt senior at VT.  Anyone know for sure?  My guess is that he may be 24.  That's old for a rookie RB now matter how you slice it.  I'll pass in dynasty for that reason alone.
4/21/1998 in my Prospect Birthdates spreadsheet.

DLF has gotten good about tracking birthdates, but it might be paywalled.

 

barackdhouse

Footballguy
This was from a week ago but these look good to me:

Khalil Herbert
HT:5087
WT:210
Hand:8 1/2
Arm:31 1/4
Wing:73 7/8
40:4.46/4.48👀NFL Scout⏱
VJ:33.0
BJ:9'7"
SS:4.31
3C:6.96👀
BP:22x👀

 

Faust

MVP
Pro Football Network's Tony Pauline writes that he "knows for a fact" that the New York Jets are high on Virginia Tech RB Khalil Herbert.

Herbert (5'9/212) hasn't received a ton of draft interest to this point -- at least not publicly -- but Pauline believes that Gang Green will begin seriously considering a running back selection starting in Round 3, and that the former Kansas and Virginia Tech product is worth monitoring for the draft's middle rounds. In addition to Herbert, Pauline also hears that the Jets are potential players for UNC's Michael Carter, whom the team has Zoomed with on multiple occasions.

SOURCE: Pro Football Network

Apr 2, 2021, 12:20 PM ET

 

Faust

MVP
Bears selected Virginia Tech RB Khalil Herbert with the No. 217 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft.

Herbert (5’9/210) was a three-star recruit who spent 3.5 seasons at inept Kansas before breaking out as a redshirt senior at Virginia Tech. Because he was splitting time with Day 3 prospect Pooka Williams, Herbert never had a 175-touch season in college and only racked up 34 career receptions, but he showcased the ability to handle the load in a Hokies uniform (16.5 touches per game) and exited college with a 6.1 yards per carry average. He was fifth out of 203 qualifiers in PFF’s yards after contact per carry (4.74) last season and projects as a physical runner with a good feel for zone blocking schemes. Herbert, 23, has a steep climb to get carries in Chicago's offense, as David Montgomery and Damien Williams figure to dominate early-down action while Tarik Cohen takes most passing-down duty. 

May 1, 2021, 5:13 PM ET

 

tombonneau

Footballguy
Really like this kid, just buried right now on the depth chart. Maybe if Tarik isn’t able to stay healthy he will get a chance this year.


I grabbed him based on how horrific that Cohen injury was and how much his game is predicated on quickness and cutting. I don't think he'll be the same player this year at all. So the RB2 spot I feel is winnable and Montgomery, despite a nice run to end the season, just strikes me as an average back who could easily find himself in a timeshare. Which means by mid-season Herbert could be a flex type guy in PPR.

 

King of the Jungle

Footballguy
I grabbed him based on how horrific that Cohen injury was and how much his game is predicated on quickness and cutting. I don't think he'll be the same player this year at all. So the RB2 spot I feel is winnable and Montgomery, despite a nice run to end the season, just strikes me as an average back who could easily find himself in a timeshare. Which means by mid-season Herbert could be a flex type guy in PPR.
Seems optimistic but would love that scenario. He has a solid vet in Damien to contend with as well.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
He's now their kick returner and possibly their punt returner, if you watched the broadcast of the game and believe the announcers.

I don't think he leapfrogs Damien Williams on the depth chart. Williams looked good out there. But Herbert should make the team, he'll just be buried.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Would be interesting to see how Herbert fares in the event those two miss time, or Williams needs a spell in-game. Montgomery, it seems, will miss some time leaving Herbert as at least the back up. 

 

sushinsky4tsar

Footballguy
If Monty is out, I think there's a chance for this to be closer to a split than a full blown Damien Williams Show, but DW probably has the clear edge in week 4 if healthy.    Regardless, I'm hoping for enough involvement from Herbert to make a determination on his roster spot in dynasty moving forward.

Spent a rookie 3.7 on him largely because of how bullish Waldman was on the talent, even though the situation was less than ideal.   Hopefully he can make some noise and join the ranks of fashionable backup RBs by the time Montgomery returns. 

 

Buck Bradcanon

Footballguy
Ian Rapoport

⁦‪@RapSheet⁩

#Bears RB Damien Williams suffered a thigh bruise on Sunday and should be OK, source said. He’d be the starter in the event David Montgomery misses a few weeks with his knee injury. Montgomery may miss some time, though the belief is the knee isn’t serious.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Ian Rapoport

⁦‪@RapSheet⁩

#Bears RB Damien Williams suffered a thigh bruise on Sunday and should be OK, source said. He’d be the starter in the event David Montgomery misses a few weeks with his knee injury. Montgomery may miss some time, though the belief is the knee isn’t serious.
Damien Williams was kept out of two games in 2019 (?) with bruising, so it's not out of the question. That said, if he should be OK, then he'll likely be OK. I just personally know how Damien Williams injury reports can change. 

 

tombonneau

Footballguy
If Monty is out, I think there's a chance for this to be closer to a split than a full blown Damien Williams Show, but DW probably has the clear edge in week 4 if healthy.    Regardless, I'm hoping for enough involvement from Herbert to make a determination on his roster spot in dynasty moving forward.

Spent a rookie 3.7 on him largely because of how bullish Waldman was on the talent, even though the situation was less than ideal.   Hopefully he can make some noise and join the ranks of fashionable backup RBs by the time Montgomery returns. 
This. I just want to see enough of him to determine if he is a bottom of roster stash or a cut. Being full blown starter for a week would be great, but even a 70/30 split for a few weeks would be interesting.

 

barackdhouse

Footballguy
Well I would think Herbert would get a bigger share in a direct backup role to DW than the share DW was getting in a direct backup role to Montgomery. Because DW probably can't lock down the starting role in as strong a way as Montgomery. But he would still be the obvious start and the waiver gem this week. Of course I just dropped him everywhere finally last week. ####### clockwork. 

Can Herbert protect the QB? If Fields starts do you go Herbert on early downs and DW on 3rd and or passing situations? 

 

tombonneau

Footballguy
Interesting take that the trade for Jakeem Grant could presage Herbert in more of a full-time role this week:

https://beargoggleson.com/2021/10/05/jakeem-grant-trade-chicago-bears-khalil-herbert/

Herbert was returning kicks (and maybe punts, not sure?) so if Bears see him as their RB for the next week or so, makes sense that they want to bring in someone to alleviate those duties. Keep you eye on the situation, but reading the tea leaves, with a ravaged RB room, I'm leaning to starting him over Mike Davis or Myles Gaskin. Strong praise, I know ...

 

barackdhouse

Footballguy
Interesting take that the trade for Jakeem Grant could presage Herbert in more of a full-time role this week:

https://beargoggleson.com/2021/10/05/jakeem-grant-trade-chicago-bears-khalil-herbert/

Herbert was returning kicks (and maybe punts, not sure?) so if Bears see him as their RB for the next week or so, makes sense that they want to bring in someone to alleviate those duties. Keep you eye on the situation, but reading the tea leaves, with a ravaged RB room, I'm leaning to starting him over Mike Davis or Myles Gaskin. Strong praise, I know ...
Yeah and Williams is almost certainly more qualified to fill a 3rd down and or passing down role. I was thinking I wouldn't be surprised if Herbert got more early down work than people think. Somewhat to ensure DW is fresh for those passing situations. 

 

Chaka

Footballguy
Interesting take that the trade for Jakeem Grant could presage Herbert in more of a full-time role this week:

https://beargoggleson.com/2021/10/05/jakeem-grant-trade-chicago-bears-khalil-herbert/

Herbert was returning kicks (and maybe punts, not sure?) so if Bears see him as their RB for the next week or so, makes sense that they want to bring in someone to alleviate those duties. Keep you eye on the situation, but reading the tea leaves, with a ravaged RB room, I'm leaning to starting him over Mike Davis or Myles Gaskin. Strong praise, I know ...
I don't think it suggests anything other than Herbert is the #2 RB this week.

Realistically I think they acquired a return specialist because ideally you don't want your top 2 RBs playing ST.

I wouldn't bench Davis for him, but can see the argument for Gaskin. What happened last week? Did he get hurt?

 

Chaka

Footballguy
Yeah and Williams is almost certainly more qualified to fill a 3rd down and or passing down role. I was thinking I wouldn't be surprised if Herbert got more early down work than people think. Somewhat to ensure DW is fresh for those passing situations. 
Williams is more qualified for a 3 down role. I imagine they will want a veteran RB out there with Fields more often than not.

I don't know the numbers but I wonder how often coaches pair rookie RBs with rookie QBs for significant stretches of game action.

 

tombonneau

Footballguy
Williams is more qualified for a 3 down role. I imagine they will want a veteran RB out there with Fields more often than not.

I don't know the numbers but I wonder how often coaches pair rookie RBs with rookie QBs for significant stretches of game action.
This is a good point about rookie pairings. 

I don't think it suggests anything other than Herbert is the #2 RB this week.

Realistically I think they acquired a return specialist because ideally you don't want your top 2 RBs playing ST.

I wouldn't bench Davis for him, but can see the argument for Gaskin. What happened last week? Did he get hurt?
I'd only be considering Herbert if he's the de facto starter and DW is out. I have Davis in currently. Gaskin wasn't hurt last week, terrible game script. He looks great with the ball and stats back it up. But somehow Miami coaching staff wants to sprinkle in a little of everyone. Real shame as he really looks like one of their best offensive players.

 

yoman

Footballguy
Williams is more qualified for a 3 down role. I imagine they will want a veteran RB out there with Fields more often than not.

I don't know the numbers but I wonder how often coaches pair rookie RBs with rookie QBs for significant stretches of game action.
1) While Williams is more qualified he also has a minor injury so they will probably want to keep him fresh.

2) As crazy as it sounds Nagy might start Dalton this week
 

 

Chaka

Footballguy
This is a good point about rookie pairings. 

I'd only be considering Herbert if he's the de facto starter and DW is out. I have Davis in currently. Gaskin wasn't hurt last week, terrible game script. He looks great with the ball and stats back it up. But somehow Miami coaching staff wants to sprinkle in a little of everyone. Real shame as he really looks like one of their best offensive players.
Obviously everything changes if Williams is out or doubtful.

 

Chaka

Footballguy
1) While Williams is more qualified he also has a minor injury so they will probably want to keep him fresh.

2) As crazy as it sounds Nagy might start Dalton this week
 
1) Injury can change everything of course, but if Williams can play everything points to him being the featured 3 down back and Herbert spelling him.  Herbert will probably see more action than Williams did as Montgomery's backup but it should still be Williams show.

2) Nagy said Fields is the starter going forward.

 

yoman

Footballguy
1) Injury can change everything of course, but if Williams can play everything points to him being the featured 3 down back and Herbert spelling him.  Herbert will probably see more action than Williams did as Montgomery's backup but it should still be Williams show.

2) Nagy said Fields is the starter going forward.
Agree with everything and you wrote and heard the Fields news about 20 minutes after I wrote this post.  I think they will give Williams at least 75% of Monty's workload. I think he would get 100% of his workload if he was fully healthy going into this week.  Williams is a 3 down back when healthy. 

 

barackdhouse

Footballguy
Williams is more qualified for a 3 down role. I imagine they will want a veteran RB out there with Fields more often than not.

I don't know the numbers but I wonder how often coaches pair rookie RBs with rookie QBs for significant stretches of game action.
Oh yeah it will be the DW show for sure. I was just thinking that Herbert is likely to get a fair amount of work. Not startable or anything but I think a nice speculative add.

 

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