kittenmittens
Footballguy
Was it Barber sucking, or was it their terrible offensive line or terrible scheme?
Its always hard to separate those from each other.
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RB Peyton Barber, LV - 9.4.21 Signs with Las Vegas (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter boltsfan
- Start date
Its always hard to separate those from each other.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Barber has sucked all 3 years of his career.
If someone is convinced RJII sucks then Bruce Anderson is a great late round flyer.
We know what Barber is, we don't know for sure what RJII or Anderson is.
2016 - rookie season - 55/223 (4.1 YPC) - the rest of the TB RB's combine for 338/1196 (3.5 YPC) - all NFL RB's combine for 47515 yards and a 4.1 YPC - when you consider Peyton hit the league average while playing for a team that finished 29th with 3.6 YPC, he is actually an above average RB for 2016, right? If not, please tell me what's wrong with my logic.
TripItUp
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
He only had 55 carries in 2016.TheWinz said:
That said he did outperformed the other scrubs he’s competed with over past few years (a washed up Doug Martin/Jacquizz Rodgers/Charles Simms).
TB has had awful RBs. I guess he’s the best in a batch of rotten apples. That usually doesn’t cut it in the NfL.
2015 - TB RB's finished 2nd in the NFL - Doug Martin & Charles Sims both had 4.9 YPC - Martin finished RB4 and Sims finished RB16
2016 - TB RB's finished 29th in the NFL - Doug Martin & Charles Sims both had 2.9 YPC - Martin finished RB55 and Sims finished RB64
Is it more likely Martin & Sims both went from very good to washed up scrubs in one year, or that it simply wasn't a RB-friendly place in 2016?
Can we agree Barber's rookie season was actually good, even though it was a small sample? Please say yes, so I can continue on to 2017
That RB was Ray Rice, who totaled 981 yards on 272 touches. Barber had 963 on 254. Rice Finished RB22 and Barber finished RB31. Very convenient they left out who it was, considering he finished RB4, RB1, RB7, and RB3 the 4 years prior.
What does very convenient mean? I mean, I assume you aren't suggesting Barber is going to put up prime Rice numbers, because that is silly, as Barber has maybe 25% of Rice's talent.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
25% is way too generous. Ray Rice in his prime was elite. Barber is a scrub. i'd say 5% is more realistic.
I absolutely am not suggesting Barber is comparable to Rice, or will become a good fantasy RB. I think he is average, and his stats need to be taken with a grain of salt. As an example, let's say DeAndre Hopkins gets traded to BAL next week. How far would his ADP fall based only on changing teams? If you don't like that scenario, try this one: all TB RB's trade places with all KC RB's. You think Barber would put up "scrub" numbers in KC?
I don't know why I am defending the guy. He is an average talent on a crappy running team. He is a RB3 that can be had at RB4/5 prices.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Ronald Jones SUCKS - and he just added 20 pounds that he thinks is all muscle... Has a running back ever added significant weight in the offseason and been successful?
I'm buying Barber now in dynasty and plan to flip him after he gets volume in Arians' offense. He's not the kind of guy who is going to hold value long term, but a spike is coming.
I'm buying Barber now in dynasty and plan to flip him after he gets volume in Arians' offense. He's not the kind of guy who is going to hold value long term, but a spike is coming.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status/1158856015305150464?s=09
There's the play he's talking about
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
One of his rare big plays this camp...where the defense is barely trying and can’t tackle.
Barber a proven chump. That’s a fact
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I hate his guts.
also, there’s a lot of rumbling that Ronald Jones has made improvements. Shannon Sharpe said he was a player to watch this year. For whatever that ‘s worth.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I mean part of the reason barber had volume last year was because Ronald Jones spent a month running backwards. 3 games, 6 carries, negative one yards.
Wait is it negative one yard or negative one yards? It looks weird when i write it out. Probably because I've never had to write it out about anyone but Ronald Jones.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
It was better than Todd Gurley in 2016. The point being that it's hard to separate RB individual performance from team production.
Barber is going to get what is blocked and not F up his assignments. That makes him the best back on the team at this point.
When he gets volume in that offense, his value is going to spike enough to deal him for a 2nd or 3rd. He's going to be a starter in reasonably deep leagues (most of mine are starting 10 to 12 with SF) until he's not the starter in Tampa Bay anymore. That should have some trade value, especially if he's more efficient.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Enjoy the 60-70 yards with no receptions upside.
barber is negative value. I’d rather gamble on some random scrub who might be able to put up 10FF+ points a game.
rostering barber is a loser mentality.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Who is drafting Barber to be a starter in their weekly lineup? He is a bye week filler, who yes, managed to get 10+ six times last year. Isn't that exactly what you want from a bye wekk filler? I tell you what - I will keep rostering Barber near the end of my draft, and you can take a flier on a scrub who never sees the field. Need I remind you he finished as a mid-level RB3 last year?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
And if he gets the same volume (which isn’t a given but my guess is he will) it would seem logical that his numbers should improve in what should be a better and more efficient offense.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Same with everybody else saying Barber is a scrub. If Barber was a scrub last year, what does that make Ronald Jones?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Well, the refrain that "we know what barber is" and "he's not talented" has been said before yet here he is, still starting for an NFL team. And we can talk about whether Arians is going to be better with the run game or use barber better, and we can speculate whether Jones is going to improve on his horrific rookie year, but it's all guess work right now.
Mostly, @ILUVBEER99 and i are in a league together where he drafted Jones last year and i picked barber up off waivers, and i was responding to him responding to me.
Ah, that explains why he hates Barber so much. The scrub held off his stud, and will do it again this year.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Who do you think will buy this guy mid-season? And at what price? Loser teams aren't buying and if I'm contending and need RB depth I'm shooting higher than Barber. Maybe a contender with injury issues you can pry a late second from? I don't know. Just doesn't seem worth it to be targeting this guy to flip him.
Pipes
Footballguy
Do you ever play in 16 team leagues? Tough to find 2 RB's that will put up Barber's stats. Damn near impossible to find 4.
Elevencents
Footballguy
I have him held over from last year as a keeper in round 16. But I think I’m gonna drop him because he has no real upside. I would rather draft someone like Darwin Thompson who could potentially be a #1 than have someone that will just clog up the bench all year.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
It only takes one owner.tombonneau said:
Last year I used him as part of a package to tip the scales on a deal for CMC from rejected to accepted because the owner liked what he saw from Barber in the preseason and he was on top of the depth chart.
Timing it right is probably the key.
Also, I play mostly in pretty deep leagues with the exception being the above example only starts 9 starters. Most of my leagues start between 10 and 12, so in those leagues I expect more of a market for him. A late 2nd would be plenty good for me.
tombonneau
Footballguy
I think the start of 2018 he had some upside you could sell which you skillfully did. But then 2018 happened.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I have a very modest bid on him now, but only because I bid to get Ronald Jones.
IMO the Bucs really want Jones to pan out, and Barber is their fallback if he doesn’t.
Thus that will also be my approach to that backfield. Tellingly, Jones went for $8/500, and Barber hasn’t moved from $2, and that’s after I outbid the $1 initial nomination.
I expect to see Jones go earlier in redraft as well.
IMO the Bucs really want Jones to pan out, and Barber is their fallback if he doesn’t.
Thus that will also be my approach to that backfield. Tellingly, Jones went for $8/500, and Barber hasn’t moved from $2, and that’s after I outbid the $1 initial nomination.
I expect to see Jones go earlier in redraft as well.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bruce Arians doesn’t give a crap about whether Jones pans out or not and right now he has more power than a GM on his last chance. Arians wants to win and will use whichever back gives him the better chance. That may turn out to be Jones, it’s not like Barber is Adrian Peterson, but I wouldn’t count on it. He had a historically bad rookie season and looked like total crap from his first preseason carry to his last regular season carry.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I figure as long as I grab both, one should work out.
You are likely correct though.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Haha yeah. I'm hoping that he gets the starting role and has a few decent games with good volume and then sell for whatever.
I really hope Arians uses him in the passing game. That would really be the thing that makes it look like he has upside again.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
This is probably the most likely scenario and Jameis just slings it all the time again.Unless neither are.
If I'm betting on one to be a home run it's Jones though.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Same - I picked up Jones in my dynasty start-up for $9
Barber went for $6.
pretty sure we know what Barber is. Jones still has potential. Last year was a mixture of a rookie who wasn’t ready, a terrible OL, a duo of QBs flip flopping in a pass-happy offense.
I feel like it’s hard to judge Jones given the reps & circumstances, but Barber had more than enough play to show us what he can (can’t) do. That volume & lack of efficiency - I mean, he should have busted a couple big runs on dumb luck alone!
I recall one time a gigantic hole opened up, Barber burst through it....and tripped over his own feet. Woulda been a 40+ TD.
barber is just not good at football. I’m hoping Ronald Jones is.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Jones has looked good in camp, and has broken several big plays. He'll likely remain cheap barring a preseason breakout though. As always, pay attention to his pass blocking and receiving reps during preseason games. If he does well with those reps he will carve out a much larger role in the offense. If he drops passes and misses blocks Barber is your guy.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Me too, but didn't buy into the Jones hype.
I still say that neither are going to be dependable fantasy options in the long run, but Barber clearly is cementing himself as the lead back yet again.
bostonfred
Footballguy
No contender wants to start Barber.
Nobody wants to rebuild their team around guys like Barber.
He's in no man's land right now when it comes to trading. A good game this week helps, but it's still not enough to give him good trade value. Another good game, though, might get him some rb2 cred because people like Arians almost as much as they hate Barber. And with the bye weeks coming and injuries starting to pile up, suddenly the rb snobs will be sniffing around looking for cheap rbs instead of you chasing them trying to sell. That's when you move him, not now.
