RB Phillip Lindsay, IND (1 Viewer)

[Interseptopus]

I thought 4.12 was good value. 

Fortunately in the one league I have Freeman, I also drafted Gurley, Mike Evans, Tyreek Hill, Adam Thielen and Hogan within my first 6 picks, so somehow I’m surviving with 8-12 a week from Freeman.

But it still stings - I’m usually good at spotting value RBs. This one might be a swing & a miss. At least he was used at the stripe.

Lindsay is a hell of a grab for folks, but dont lose faith in Freeman just yet

 

[Interseptopus]

I will say this though, it feels good to be right about the Denver RB situation more times than Cecil Lammy

 

[Widbil83]

Lindsay is a hell of a grab for folks, but dont lose faith in Freeman just yet

I am in several FBG leagues and tried getting Lindsay at 20- 30% unsuccessfuly in every one, I have Freeman in a few and don't feel good about this at all moving forward.  Basically I'm jealous as hell of all you Lindsay owners because he looks like the real deal.   

 

[cockroach]

Elite balance.

 

[Insein]

My one league I had to choose between picking up Yeldon or Lindsay. Looking like I made the wrong choice long term. Got Lindsay in my other league though basically for free. Weird how it all works.

 

[Elevencents]

Missed him in all 3 of my FFPC leagues. Went for >30% in all 3. 

 

[sho nuff]

I thought 4.12 was good value. 

Fortunately in the one league I have Freeman, I also drafted Gurley, Mike Evans, Tyreek Hill, Adam Thielen and Hogan within my first 6 picks, so somehow I’m surviving with 8-12 a week from Freeman.

But it still stings - I’m usually good at spotting value RBs. This one might be a swing & a miss. At least he was used at the stripe.

Unfortunately in that league I have Baldwin, Collins, David Johnson and also believed in P Barber this year.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

In one league where we can start as many as 3 RB I have Freeman, Lindsay, Drake and David Johnson. At this rate I may play Lindsay in place of David Johnson. (Lindsay was my 18th round pick, purely as a handcuff for Freeman.)

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In one league where we can start as many as 3 RB I have Freeman, Lindsay, Drake and David Johnson. At this rate I may play Lindsay in place of David Johnson. (Lindsay was my 18th round pick, purely as a handcuff for Freeman.)

You, a genius, handcuffed a rookie RB.

Me, an idiot, handcuffed my 1st round RB. 

With last priority on waivers I had no shot at Lindsay. 

I’ve tried to go to FA blind bidding for years & neither league is interested.  

 

[Dismattle]

So you’re expecting him to break his long running streak with something that is actually accurate and knowledgeable?  

Believe its called making up for the past or something  Think most would really need to think long and hard about even suggesting a player after being ridiculed in a jokingly manner by his peers  So yeah I actually believe Cecil exceeded expectations  Possibly to some in comparison to how both NFL teams and gurus deemed most all this yrs rookie RB's  Now there may not be no correlation to a rookie QB thrown to the lions who winds up hearing footsteps  (But most of the rooks probably need some praise for their efforts from coach's)

Personally I believe Cecil smashed it!   I mean yeah I get that it's still wise to consider buyer beware...  What with only two games played. 

I also get that you might just be poking fun!  Hope you enjoy my response referencing the fact that its still early in the Season  We who play IDP know you should hope to notice one game, buy/sell on two, knowing it takes at least three games for the establishment of a known value    Playing the Ravens next probably can't be overestimated as to the value of evaluating the Broncos run game  https://youtu.be/bAXLCwJCugA

 

[rascal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vXbvGNFM9U

Every touch from week 2.  He will continue to get 10-15 touches a game.

 

[Faust]

Broncos RB Phillip Lindsay sets NFL rookie record

 

[tombonneau]

What's a very early value in ppr dynasty? I'm guessing owners aren't selling for less than a first?

 

[RushHour]

What's a very early value in ppr dynasty? I'm guessing owners aren't selling for less than a first?

I doubt anyone could get a first for him. It’s really tough to value him in rookie picks because it’s hard to know how sustainable the production is. 

I own him and wouldn’t sell him for a second but that’s because I build my teams around WRs and usually go zero RB and he is perfect for that. If I didn’t need him, I’d probably be tempted to sell for a second. It would feel risky though.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I doubt anyone could get a first for him. It’s really tough to value him in rookie picks because it’s hard to know how sustainable the production is. 

I own him and wouldn’t sell him for a second but that’s because I build my teams around WRs and usually go zero RB and he is perfect for that. If I didn’t need him, I’d probably be tempted to sell for a second. It would feel risky though.

I only have in one league and he’s a hold for me. No one is paying a first and why bail for a second?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I doubt anyone could get a first for him. It’s really tough to value him in rookie picks because it’s hard to know how sustainable the production is. 

I own him and wouldn’t sell him for a second but that’s because I build my teams around WRs and usually go zero RB and he is perfect for that. If I didn’t need him, I’d probably be tempted to sell for a second. It would feel risky though.

He has some risks but so do most second round picks. Seems unnecessary to move him just to take another shot - unless you need roster space.

 

[RushHour]

I only have in one league and he’s a hold for me. No one is paying a first and why bail for a second?

I think the reason you’d bail for a second is because he’s a UDFA scatback and the odds are he’s going to be useful in fantasy but maybe not impactful long term. You might say I got him for free, don’t really need him, and I’ll make a quick profit.

I personally don’t play dynasty with that mindset but some do. 

 

[lardonastick]

 

[Bronco Billy]

Well, here’s to hoping I’m 100% wrong on this guy and am going to happily eat crow, but now the vaunted HC has just made a public statement that he intends to continue to get others - including Booker - a lot of snaps along with Lindsay.  Normally I’d be willing to just ignore that as coachspeak, but with this guy...?

 

[DocHolliday]

Well, here’s to hoping I’m 100% wrong on this guy and am going to happily eat crow, but now the vaunted HC has just made a public statement that he intends to continue to get others - including Booker - a lot of snaps along with Lindsay.  Normally I’d be willing to just ignore that as coachspeak, but with this guy...?

Can we believe any HC?

 

[zeeshan2]

I will say this though, it feels good to be right about the Denver RB situation more times than Cecil Lammy

Cecil claimed Royce and Lindsay were the backfield of the future

 

[Bronco Billy]

Can we believe any HC?

This guy is way different.  I’m sure Elway has strong influence but Joseph makes some moves that are just serious headscratchers.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This guy is way different.  I’m sure Elway has strong influence but Joseph makes some moves that are just serious headscratchers.

In this case though I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that a team who spent a Ish draft pick on a super talented RB with size & power is going to incorporate him more into the game plan. 

Thats really not hard to divine regardless but I’m glad to hear the HC say it.

it’s certainly more logical than pounding an undersized dude into the pile 300 times a year. 

I expect a RBBC in Denver. I did not expect Freeman to be so under-used. It’s felt flukey. 

Full disclosute - I have Freeman in one league. I’ve alresdy eaten crow in here. But even if it didn’t have Freeman I would question the division of touches these first two games. 

Feels like it would ideally be more like 45-35-10% Freeman/Lindsay/Booker if they really have to use Booker (and I’m still baffled as to why they, or anyone, would have to use Booker).  

But situational football sometimes comes into play. We’ll see how it shakes out over the next few games. As good as Lindsay has looked, it seems foolish to not get Freeman more involved. He’s a “wear down the defense”, punishing type of runner.  

While a very good RB, I don’t see Lindsay as that type of player. 

 

[zoonation]

In this case though I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that a team who spent a Ish draft pick on a super talented RB with size & power is going to incorporate him more into the game plan. 

Thats really not hard to divine regardless but I’m glad to hear the HC say it.

it’s certainly more logical than pounding an undersized dude into the pile 300 times a year. 

I expect a RBBC in Denver. I did not expect Freeman to be so under-used. It’s felt flukey. 

Full disclosute - I have Freeman in one league. I’ve alresdy eaten crow in here. But even if it didn’t have Freeman I would question the division of touches these first two games. 

Feels like it would ideally be more like 45-35-10% Freeman/Lindsay/Booker if they really have to use Booker (and I’m still baffled as to why they, or anyone, would have to use Booker).  

But situational football sometimes comes into play. We’ll see how it shakes out over the next few games. As good as Lindsay has looked, it seems foolish to not get Freeman more involved. He’s a “wear down the defense”, punishing type of runner.  

While a very good RB, I don’t see Lindsay as that type of player. 

No way!

Freeman looks slow and plodding.  Lindsay looks quick and dynamic.  Just doing way more with his touches.  also, it is disingenuous to say that they are "pounding" him into the pile.  they get him the ball in space a lot.  The fact is that he just looks way better.  And the NFL is about winning games.  Lindsay has dominated touches and the Broncos are winning.  I don't see that changing unless he gets injured or is ineffective.

 

[Cenobite]

Feels like it would ideally be more like 45-35-10% Freeman/Lindsay/Booker if they really have to use Booker (and I’m still baffled as to why they, or anyone, would have to use Booker).  

But situational football sometimes comes into play. We’ll see how it shakes out over the next few games. As good as Lindsay has looked, it seems foolish to not get Freeman more involved. He’s a “wear down the defense”, punishing type of runner.  

While a very good RB, I don’t see Lindsay as that type of player. 

Who gets the other 10%? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Who gets the other 10%? 

*other

WR sweeps, QB runs, etc. 

theres always an “ofner”. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

No way!

Freeman looks slow and plodding.  Lindsay looks quick and dynamic.  Just doing way more with his touches.  also, it is disingenuous to say that they are "pounding" him into the pile.  they get him the ball in space a lot.  The fact is that he just looks way better.  And the NFL is about winning games.  Lindsay has dominated touches and the Broncos are winning.  I don't see that changing unless he gets injured or is ineffective.

Chances of his getting injured seem to be higher with more usage. 

And sure, next to Lindsay Freeman looks slower - he looked to have good burst in the preseason, and on the 22 yard catch & run last week he looked very quick.

i don’t see “plodder” at all. You must be watching a different RB. 

 

[moleculo]

I've been impressed with Lindsays work between the tackles.  Apparently the coaches too, as he isn't limited to work on the outside.  He is able to squirt thru small spaces as good as anyone I've seen.  Yes, his lack of size means he goes down on first contact a lot, but his wiggle means people don't get that many square shots at him.

 

[Boston]

As I posted somewhere a few days ago...check out his college usage...he was a workhorse who had more carries the past two years than all the other top rookies from this past draft...this is not a gadget guy who is doing it with smoke and mirrors...he is picking up where he left off  at Colorado...Freeman is not gonna go away but I am starting to feel more and more comfortable that 15 touches a game is very realistic for Lindsay...

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Really debating him in flex this week, potentially rolling him over Cohen as the upside and usage is too good to ignore. Lindsay may indeed lay an egg as it's hard to maintain consistent 15+ point games (as he has done in my PPR so far this year) but his floor seems secure for now.

The one hesitation I have is they face a tough BAL rush D. Lindsay will get catches and still be elusive, but this is clearly a different kind of rush D than the favorable match ups they saw against SEA and OAK the last two weeks.

Is this scaring anyone else from using Lindsay this week?

 

[spodog]

Really debating him in flex this week, potentially rolling him over Cohen as the upside and usage is too good to ignore. Lindsay may indeed lay an egg as it's hard to maintain consistent 15+ point games (as he has done in my PPR so far this year) but his floor seems secure for now.

The one hesitation I have is they face a tough BAL rush D. Lindsay will get catches and still be elusive, but this is clearly a different kind of rush D than the favorable match ups they saw against SEA and OAK the last two weeks.

Is this scaring anyone else from using Lindsay this week?

No

 

[sho nuff]

Really debating him in flex this week, potentially rolling him over Cohen as the upside and usage is too good to ignore. Lindsay may indeed lay an egg as it's hard to maintain consistent 15+ point games (as he has done in my PPR so far this year) but his floor seems secure for now.

The one hesitation I have is they face a tough BAL rush D. Lindsay will get catches and still be elusive, but this is clearly a different kind of rush D than the favorable match ups they saw against SEA and OAK the last two weeks.

Is this scaring anyone else from using Lindsay this week?

Yes and no...its him or Barber at my flex spot.  Freeman to the pine.  Leaning heavily Lindsay at this point because of the reception potential and bigger play potential.

 

[hamsterdam]

They haven’t even really started to target their RBs in the passing game yet. 

Didn’t Lindsay make a name for himself catching passes in camp? I think there’s going to be an uptick in targets as the season goes on. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Yes and no...its him or Barber at my flex spot.  Freeman to the pine.  Leaning heavily Lindsay at this point because of the reception potential and bigger play potential.

Tough choice. I'd lean Barber despite a tough-on-paper matchup against the Steelers, as while the Steelers can play tough against the run, they have also fallen apart at times. Barber should continue getting the volume, IMHO, with a more reliable floor.

 

[humpback]

I'm still far from sold on his FF prospects, but I'd start him this week over Cohen and Barber pretty easily.

 

[Hilts]

Chances of his getting injured seem to be higher with more usage. 

Isn't this true with all running backs? Are there guys who are less likely to get hurt the more they play? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Isn't this true with all running backs? Are there guys who are less likely to get hurt the more they play? 

Smaller frame RBs get hurt more often.

see: Tarick Cohen on MNF. 

I know there are those who dispute this. But it sure seems like the big bruising backs have better longevity. 

 

[Hilts]

Smaller frame RBs get hurt more often.

see: Tarick Cohen on MNF. 

I know there are those who dispute this. But it sure seems like the big bruising backs have better longevity. 

Smaller guys don't normally carry a heavy load to the extent Lindsay did in college. It seems unfair and unreasonable to remove that from the equation. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Smaller frame RBs get hurt more often.

I don't believe this to be true. It seems logical but I think it's a fallacy. All RBs get hurt basically.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Smaller guys don't normally carry a heavy load to the extent Lindsay did in college. It seems unfair and unreasonable to remove that from the equation. 

College players < NFL players.

totally fair & reasonable to believe he’d stay healthier against future latte makers & insurance salesmen than NFL linebackers & safeties.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't believe this to be true. It seems logical but I think it's a fallacy. All RBs get hurt basically.

Maybe.

Perhaps it needs to be studied on a case by case basis with every RB who’s ever played placed into categories by weight, frequency of injury & injury type to rally figure it out. 

But that would take so much time & effort...

...or I could keep going by my adorably simplistic folk wisdom and be content with my Dunning-Kruger Syndrome state of being. 

Which one takes longer......Hmmm...I’ll go with the latter. 

lol

 

[Hilts]

College players < NFL players.

totally fair & reasonable to believe he’d stay healthier against future latte makers & insurance salesmen than NFL linebackers & safeties.  

You're missing the point. You're comparing him to other guys who are the same size, but you're refusing to compare him to other college workhorses. I think you need to do both. Sure, ideally he'd be a college workhorse who was a lot bigger. But we shouldn't simply dismiss him as being unable to carry a heavy load just because he's not 220 pounds. 

The fact he carried a huge load in college should make you pause before dismissing him as yet another small back who can't carry the load. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Maybe.

Perhaps it needs to be studied on a case by case basis with everY RB who’s ever played places into categories by weight, frequency of injury & injury type to rally figure it out. 

But that would take so much time & effort...

...or I could keep going by my adorably simplistic folk wisdom and be content with my Dunning-Kruger Syndrome state of being. 

Which one takes longer......Hmmm...I’ll go with the latter. 

lol

A lot of "small" backs don't take the pounding that "big" backs do - manly because they are used differently - but even the ones that are featured don't, because they generally are better at evading the big hits and don't give up as much of their body to take hits. I actually think a tall RB (upright runner) takes more hits because they expose more surface.

I would bet a pretty decent sum that no study would show that a < 205 pound back generally misses anymore time than a 210+ pound back to injury. It's a violent position in a violent sport and injuries come down to genetics and luck (good and bad).

Now if you were to say a smaller back would wear down faster over the course of a game with a heavy workload/pounding - I may be more inclined to believe that but I'm not even sure that's a accurate.

Size gives many advantages at the RB position but I do not think staying healthy is one of them. 

 

[humpback]

Yeah, I think you're missing the mark on the size/injury thing- plenty of larger RBs get injured a lot (see Fournette).

Where the size does make a big difference IMO is on punishment (both taking and dishing out), which is why you don't see many smaller RBs "carry the load" for a long period of time. Guys like MJD and Rice were rare exceptions, but they were built differently than most "small" RBs (including Lindsay).

 

[ty247]

Smaller guys don't normally carry a heavy load to the extent Lindsay did in college. It seems unfair and unreasonable to remove that from the equation. 

I think the other thing that people aren't taking into consideration;

Lindsay is just over 5'7" (5'7 2/8) at 190 which is significantly different than a guy that is 5'11 and 190-200.

On top of already being a 'short' back he runs with his body and his pad level low which helps negate taking a lot of harder hits where a LB or DE has been able to square up on the runner.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You're missing the point. You're comparing him to other guys who are the same size, but you're refusing to compare him to other college workhorses. I think you need to do both. Sure, ideally he'd be a college workhorse who was a lot bigger. But we shouldn't simply dismiss him as being unable to carry a heavy load just because he's not 220 pounds. 

The fact he carried a huge load in college should make you pause before dismissing him as yet another small back who can't carry the load. 

I haven’t dismissed him. I’ve complimented him. He’s a terrific player. 

i just don’t think he’s built for 15 carries a week. 

His huge load in college is irrelevant to me because the college defenders don’t hit as hard or run as fast. 

I don’t discriminate against small RBs - I just think the Broncos would be smart to use him more in space, and let the big guy carry the mail up the gut. 

i’m allowed to have that opinion. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

A lot of "small" backs don't take the pounding that "big" backs do - manly because they are used differently - but even the ones that are featured don't, because they generally are better at evading the big hits and don't give up as much of their body to take hits. I actually think a tall RB (upright runner) takes more hits because they expose more surface.

I would bet a pretty decent sum that no study would show that a < 205 pound back generally misses anymore time than a 210+ pound back to injury. It's a violent position in a violent sport and injuries come down to genetics and luck (good and bad).

Now if you were to say a smaller back would wear down faster over the course of a game with a heavy workload/pounding - I may be more inclined to believe that but I'm not even sure that's a accurate.

Size gives many advantages at the RB position but I do not think staying healthy is one of them. 

I concede this is possible. But I prefer the folksy wisdom of my great grandpappy’s day. When a bushel of squirrels would get you a nickel, and you could pay a linebacker’s salary for a year with that nickel. 

You know I’m just have fun with this now, right? I mean, no one knows if Lindsay is going to stay healthy or not. 

But it sure does seem like the smaller the back, the less they’re built for the bruising of the NFL. 

Sproles was a bowling ball - dude was short but really muscular. Warrick Dunn is probably the best comparison, and to his credit, aside from two injury-plagued years he stayed healthy most of his career.

Despite your claim that it’s all equal, it sure seems like there have been a lot less Warrick Dunn types in the NFL than what’s considered the prototypical 200+ lb RB. 

I agree about taller/more upright runners. I’m not sure why that’s being tossed in for comparison - there’s always been a knock on dudes like that. Height isn’t the comparison, it’s weight. 

And for all his talent, Lindsay isn’t a guy who’s going to “wear down a defense”. He’s not a “punishing runner” who defenders will be afraid to tackle. He’s not likely going to grind out the tough yards between the tackles on the final drive to kill the clock. 

Injury or not, he’s just not that type of back. Can we agree on that? 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Despite your claim that it’s all equal, it sure seems like there have been a lot less Warrick Dunn types in the NFL than what’s considered the prototypical 200+ lb RB. 

I've laid out one theory why in this thread already - coaches GMs don't like to break the mold. It's why Brees and Wilson were grossly under-drafted. There's other factors as well which would be in favor of your points/concerns.

II agree about taller/more upright runners. I’m not sure why that’s being tossed in for comparison - there’s always been a knock on dudes like that. Height isn’t the comparison, it’s weight. 

Taller backs are also heavier? But it was brought up to show differing body type that could be more "injury-prone".

And for all his talent, Lindsay isn’t a guy who’s going to “wear down a defense”. He’s not a “punishing runner” who defenders will be afraid to tackle. He’s not likely going to grind out the tough yards between the tackles on the final drive to kill the clock. 

Injury or not, he’s just not that type of back. Can we agree on that? 

Yeah, this I said a few pages ago as one of the reasons there are more bigger than smaller RBs.

However, Lindsay has shown an ability to grind out yards running between the tackles. In all honesty that isn't really Freeman's game either though. If you watch his college tape he's more of a finesse guy than a power back. Despite being "big" he runs kind of "small", He's not a pile pusher or tackle-breaker and generally didn't put his head down and plow guys over - he looked to run around them. That's not a bad thing. He actually has a nice size/speed combo.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I've laid out one theory why in this thread already - coaches GMs don't like to break the mold. It's why Brees and Wilson were grossly under-drafted. There's other factors as well which would be in favor of your points/concerns.

Taller backs are also heavier? But it was brought up to show differing body type that could be more "injury-prone".

Yeah, this I said a few pages ago as one of the reasons there are more bigger than smaller RBs.

However, Lindsay has shown an ability to grind out yards running between the tackles. In all honesty that isn't really Freeman's game either though. If you watch his college tape he's more of a finesse guy than a power back. Despite being "big" he runs kind of "small", He's not a pile pusher or tackle-breaker and generally didn't put his head down and plow guys over - he looked to run around them. That's not a bad thing. He actually has a nice size/speed combo.

Sigh - I suppose I’ll just have to wait & see if Lindsay gets hurt, and then in true FBG fashion, declare my precience & tell y’all “see! I told you he’d get hurt!”

 

(Kidding, of course) 

 

[spodog]

Smaller frame RBs get hurt more often.

Don't think there is much data to support this.   Injury is more a function of running style (and bad luck).

Go back and look at Marcus Allen.  He had the frame of an NBA shooting guard,   But he knew how to position his body to avoid big hits and was rarely injured.