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RB Rashaad Penny, CAR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bojang0301
- Start date
That isn't saying much, he was worthless in 2022.
I offered someone Penny in a trade the night he signed with the Eagles. They responded they would not want to pay much for 5 games a year.
Later that night they did a trade where they acquired Gainwell.
Today they sent me a trade offer which involved them getting Penny. I rejected the trade and could not resist replying that I'd rather have the RB who gives me 5 good games a year then the RB who gives me 5 points a game all year.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What’s funny is if you go back enough pages in this topic you’ll get to 2022 preseason where every single one of these discussions has already happened.
And if you go all the way back to the 2021 preseason, yep - same thing.
It’s déjà vu all over again.
- Yogi
And if you go all the way back to the 2021 preseason, yep - same thing.
It’s déjà vu all over again.
- Yogi
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Add in that last year miles led the league in yards BEFORE contact Penny should average something like 10 ypc. Lol.
massraider
Footballguy
Far as I am concerned he is a committee back, and might improve efficiency playing with this QB, line, and team in general. He might have a few big games here and there, but it's not in the best interest of the Eagles to be like, hey let's give heavy workload to this injured guy because oh man, if he ever stayed healthy.....
I think there will be rotations, and I think he's not their first option as a pass-catching back, so I don't see any way you can count on him. i think he might be a flier as a flex, and maybe has a big game when you need him, but I'm not gonna plan on that.
--especially once they draft Bijan
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Ok but who isn’t a committee back these days?
TakiToki
Footballguy
Love the spot and and love the talent.
Maybe they even outlaw the rugby push and he picks up some goal line equity.
Certainly has the injury history, and the super-low salary is a bit concerning. A nothing-burger is definitely in play, but I feel like this is a solid "you play to win the game" upside gamble.
Maybe they even outlaw the rugby push and he picks up some goal line equity.
Certainly has the injury history, and the super-low salary is a bit concerning. A nothing-burger is definitely in play, but I feel like this is a solid "you play to win the game" upside gamble.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Personally I just hope it keeps the Eagles from drafting Bijan.
That push the pile play is gonna kneecap his scoring potential for the ~5 games he plays.
massraider
Footballguy
I agree!
I am not really down on Penny as a talent, simply I think there's a good chance he's damaged goods, and I think there's two guys there to take passing downs, and a QB who will vulture goalline. For whatever reason Penny is one of those guys that people like to imagine what he could do if none of the factors restricting him existed (see: Gordon, Josh), and IMO people like to shove injury concerns aside, cause that's no fun, and it all adds up to Penny being gone before he's on top of my list.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Yep, Agree with what you’re saying. All depends on the acquisition price but he’s one of the cheaper upside plays out there I would think. Although I have zero recon on where people are valuing him with Philly.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Redraft 10-12 team leagues?
Where are we thinking?
6th-7th-8th Rd?
Depends on the other RBs on the roster come August?
Where are we thinking?
6th-7th-8th Rd?
Depends on the other RBs on the roster come August?
Da Franchise
Footballguy
No idea about redraft, not even close to ready for that.
Where’s his value in dynasty 2023 picks? Late 2 sounds about right?
Where’s his value in dynasty 2023 picks? Late 2 sounds about right?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
( @Deamon posted this in another thread but it really should be here for best discussion)
Thanks. I'm very interested in this. Can you elaborate on why you think he'll be more durable?
Better, what's your prediction for how many games he'll play in this year?
Where do you think Penny will wind up ranked among RBs this year?
Obviously could vary a ton based on games played. I think he plays 12-15 games.
Ends up in the rb12-24 range (probably closer to 24) so an rb2 in fantasy with lots of upside and lots of risk.
Just a gut feeling that he stays healthy.
Boston
Footballguy
The ol' hometown gut feeling!
Agreed a bit of homerism baked in. But I also think the "injury prone" label is overused a lot. Everyone loves to make posts about a player being made of glass, but there are tons of examples where a 'can never stay healthy' player suddenly becomes very durable. Freak injuries happen to everyone equally.
There's obvious injury risk with Penny, but I have a feeling he will play a lot more games than the '3 games' that people love to joke/talk about. I think he plays over 10 games.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I don't have an opinion, at least not one that I can express based on facts. But this website thinks he'll be healthier than Miles Sanders in '23. Looking at Sanders' injury history, he hasn't exactly been the picture of health either.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
When he’s healthy he’s going to be appearing on top 10 rankings most weeks. Eagles offense and oline with his ypc? He’s a weekly RB1 when he’s out there.
*assuming they don’t draft a RB early which would be shocking from Roseman
*assuming they don’t draft a RB early which would be shocking from Roseman
massraider
Footballguy
We never hear about players with injury issues they cannot shake. We hear they are good to go, and assume they are 100%. We don’t know about what conditions they are not telling us about, what they are playing through, etc.
Penny might be best on a pitch count, but that isn’t great for fantasy.
Penny might be best on a pitch count, but that isn’t great for fantasy.
Ya I'm curious where he will be ranked on fantasy sites. Could be a ton of variation for him.
Howie won't take a RB with our first pick
Thanks. What are some of the examples for a 'can never stay healthy' player that suddenly becomes very durable?
Keenan Allen is the one I remember most. Everyone blasted him for his injury history and how he'd never make it through a season, then suddenly he just started playing every game of the seasons.
I'd have to think on others, but I'm sure other people can chime in on it better.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What would the gut say if he signed with Cincinnati?
He'd be hurt before he even met with the team.
Just kidding. I'd think the same. I've always been a guy who thinks the "he's so injury prone" thing is overblown and have posted about that in the past.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I understand and have argued against the label before - and the “he’ll be great for the 5 games he plays” quips get tired quick - but the thing is compared to most other RBs he’s missed considerably more time than usual.
Whether that’s just bad luck, or if he’s “soft” or predisposed to certain injuries is all up for debate, but just saying “he’ll stay healthy because I think he will” comes across as hollow when it’s a homer saying it.
His injuries were mainly in college but Frank Gore for me is the poster child of what you are asking.
To be sure you can't find a lot of examples like Penny but it also gets a little tough because typically if someone misses that much time at some point they likely suffered an injury which saps them of their ability and I've seen no signs of that with Penny.
33% homer/wishing it happens
33% a gut feeling that I actually think he will
33% that I don't buy into the 'injury prone" label as much as most people do
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
These seem to be one and the same - so let’s apply 66% to homerism.
Interesting article here. Lots of his injuries like a torn acl and broken leg, can happen to anyone. I don't think his 'bones are more fragile than the average person" or "his ligaments have a different composition than most people". Or maybe that's true? I'm not a doc so don't really know what the actual physical attributes of an "injury prone player" are.
You could also say it's his style of play. How he runs, how he cuts, etc that maybe is more dangerous?
Or you could say it's a pain tolerance thing where maybe he is more of a wimp than most players?
You could also say it's his style of play. How he runs, how he cuts, etc that maybe is more dangerous?
Or you could say it's a pain tolerance thing where maybe he is more of a wimp than most players?
Rashaad Penny - Injury History
Fantasy football rankings, cheatsheets, advice, and news from Draft Sharks to help you dominate your league
www.draftsharks.com
massraider
Footballguy
Aug 13, 2018 NFL Hand Finger Fracture Penny broke the pointer finger on his left hand in practice on August 13th. He had surgery on the 15th but was ready for the start of the season.
Dec 10, 2018 NFL Knee Strain Grade 1 Penny missed 2 games with a knee injury.
Sep 20, 2019 NFL Thigh Hamstring Strain Grade 2 Penny injured his hamstring during practice ahead of Week 3 game vs the Saints. He missed two games. He was listed as inactive Week 6 against Cleveland with the same injury.
Dec 8, 2019 NFL Knee ACL Tear Grade 3 Penny tore his ACL during the game against the Rams. He was ruled out for the rest of the 2019 season
Jan 8, 2021 NFL Knee Strain Grade 1 Penny missed a wild card contest against the Rams due to a knee injury.
Sep 12, 2021 NFL Leg Calf Strain Penny injured his left calf during Week 1's game at Indianapolis. He missed five games
Nov 21, 2021 NFL Thigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Penny suffered a hamstring injury in Week 11's loss to the Cardinals. He missed one game
Oct 9, 2022 NFL Leg Tibia Fracture Penny went down in the 3rd quarter of Week 5 at New Orleans.
Dec 10, 2018 NFL Knee Strain Grade 1 Penny missed 2 games with a knee injury.
Sep 20, 2019 NFL Thigh Hamstring Strain Grade 2 Penny injured his hamstring during practice ahead of Week 3 game vs the Saints. He missed two games. He was listed as inactive Week 6 against Cleveland with the same injury.
Dec 8, 2019 NFL Knee ACL Tear Grade 3 Penny tore his ACL during the game against the Rams. He was ruled out for the rest of the 2019 season
Jan 8, 2021 NFL Knee Strain Grade 1 Penny missed a wild card contest against the Rams due to a knee injury.
Sep 12, 2021 NFL Leg Calf Strain Penny injured his left calf during Week 1's game at Indianapolis. He missed five games
Nov 21, 2021 NFL Thigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Penny suffered a hamstring injury in Week 11's loss to the Cardinals. He missed one game
Oct 9, 2022 NFL Leg Tibia Fracture Penny went down in the 3rd quarter of Week 5 at New Orleans.
Not at all. I'd have the same gut feeling as I would if he was on any other team. But I suppose you know my thoughts better than I.
I already baked in the 'hope/wish' into the other 3rd, and am admitting that.
Not sure what argument you're looking for here, I believe Penny will play double digit games. What are your thoughts on how many games he will play?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I dunno if Penny can stay healthy. It would be somewhat surprising but not impossible.
I do know that I’ll be drafting Gainwell in my redraft a round before I think everyone else will. He’s likely going to see a lot of touches.
And if Penny does go down again, it’s a jackpot.
I do know that I’ll be drafting Gainwell in my redraft a round before I think everyone else will. He’s likely going to see a lot of touches.
And if Penny does go down again, it’s a jackpot.
Sure, and Keenan Allen has become one of the most consistent players over his career, and look at his injuries:
Keenan Allen - Injury History
Fantasy football rankings, cheatsheets, advice, and news from Draft Sharks to help you dominate your league
www.draftsharks.com
I'm not at all arguing that he hasn't been injured a lot. I have the opinion that he will play double digit games.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t really account for injuries into my projections but I do knock some players down for injury risk - Penny will be one of those players - but it’s possible I discount him less than the rest of my league and end up with him.
In dynasty leagues, I see no reason to trade for him. I doubt his owners would give him away after he signed in Philly, and any offer I made would likely be insulting to them.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed. The time to deal for Penny was when he was a hurt soon to be FA.
Now it’ll cost more than I want to risk to get him.
So you think you'll knock him down because of injury risk but not as much as others do.
I think he's an injury risk but not as much as others do.
Yet you're really pushing the homer angle when we both have similar views on him. I never even came close to guaranteeing (or even thinking) that he would play an entire season. I think he will stay healthier than those saying he's going to play 3-4 games max. I just have a feeling he plays double digit games.
Almost ironic some of these comments by Schnieder and Carroll in their post-draft press conference after picking Penny:
Schneider: He had some really interesting analytics and stats about him with durability, run after contact, run after first contact. He actually, of this group (of runningbacks), was number one in both categories.”
(On if running back durability from the past few years played a role with drafting Penny…)
Carroll: “Absolutely. It was an important element in his makeup and background.”
Schneider: He had some really interesting analytics and stats about him with durability, run after contact, run after first contact. He actually, of this group (of runningbacks), was number one in both categories.”
(On if running back durability from the past few years played a role with drafting Penny…)
Carroll: “Absolutely. It was an important element in his makeup and background.”
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
And for the sake of showing that I don’t always buy into the injury prone label - I drafted CMc at 1.04 last season after at least one person passed due to injury concerns assumedly.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You’re starting to twist words around looking for gotcha moments. I’m done with this conversation.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, someone pulls a hammy, and breaks a finger, that's not injury-prone.
I was reading some article about some former Denver WR, I cannot remember who, some mid-tier guy you would remember. Anyway, his story was basically getting injured, coming back, re-injuring same leg in a different place, kicking around a few years, and never being right. Coming back too soon, over-compensating , whatever. And you know what, we never heard about that, when it was happening. It's always positive spin.
Not specific to Penny, just in general, players that have injuries to the same area repeatedly, I always wonder if that leg/shoulder/ankle is just never going to be right, and is always going to be a problem eventually. Because WE will never be told that.
Betting against recurring injuries is like betting the under, fans don't wanna do it. It's just more fun to imagine them healthy. Are the Eagles and Giants getting crap for picking up Penny and Waller? Definitely not. Both moves are have pretty much been applauded.
These are some interesting articles
www.fantasypoints.com
www.theatlantic.com
hub.geneplanet.com
Some good points on both sides of things. Like most things, I think the truth usually lies in the middle.
- He's not a non-risk, I don't think he'll play 17 games, I do think there's a chance he's hurt in preseason and plays no games.
- I also think he plays more than 3-4 games. I also don't think he 'gets hurt putting on his jersey". I also don't think he 'can't be trusted".
Injury Prone is a Lie: Part I | Fantasy Points
By now, you all know Dr. Edwin's stance on the term
www.fantasypoints.com
The Genetics of Being Injury-Prone
Researchers are beginning to understand how DNA makes some athletes more likely to get hurt.
» Being injury-prone: What does it mean, and what can you do about it?
hub.geneplanet.com
Some good points on both sides of things. Like most things, I think the truth usually lies in the middle.
- He's not a non-risk, I don't think he'll play 17 games, I do think there's a chance he's hurt in preseason and plays no games.
- I also think he plays more than 3-4 games. I also don't think he 'gets hurt putting on his jersey". I also don't think he 'can't be trusted".
lol I'm not at all looking for gotcha moments. I have an opinion that he will play double digit games, that's all I've said. You seem to have an issue with me having that opinion and are looking for an argument. When you realized we are both saying the same thing (he's an injury risk but not as much as most people think) you seem bothered by it.
This is a good point. Penny's injuries do seem to be all on that same leg. Perhaps there's a difference between a general "he always gets hurt, he's made of glass" (which I rarely ever have that opinion), and "he keeps getting hurt on that one spot, maybe it's not healing properly" which might be more accurate in Pennys case.
I'm hopeful that those issues are dealt with and he's not rushed back too soon, but I guess only he and doctors really know how that tissue has healed.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Fred Taylor shook the label for the most part(?)
