RB Ronald Jones, Cowboys (1 Viewer)

[Grahamburn]

I think this is too optimistic of a take. Jones went from having every week upside in fantasy to not even being flexable just on the lost touches alone.

I don't think Jones owners (in that camp myself) can see this as anything but a lost pick.

Can’t argue that too much. Adding Fournette certainly isn’t better for Jones. However, I don’t think LF is going to be someone who relegates RJ to the bench. My guess is he takes the reps they penciled in for McCoy. 
 

Fournette is also one of the worst blocking backs in the league. He won’t last long if he’s getting Brady hit. Jones had issues with blocking too, but has been reported to have worked on it a great deal. 
 

And it’s going to take some time to get Fournette up to speed. If Jones looks great out of the gate it’s going to be tough for Arians to move away from him. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Weren’t they right so far? 
Guy couldn’t beat out Peyton Barber as a second year player.

He largely took over last year, and then appeared to be taking over this year. 

Still a lot of football to be played. Fournette is neither great, nor durable. Let’s see how far that gets him in TB before we completely bury RoJo. 

I’m expecting a split backfield. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Weren’t they right so far? 
Guy couldn’t beat out Peyton Barber as a second year player.

He pretty solidly beat out Barber last year IMO.

Unlike 2018 where RoJo was going through some rookie growing pains, Barber was the better back. 

But I disagree about your take on 2019. RoJo took a solid step forward, improving across multiple areas and just looked more explosive and effective than Barber. For anyone who owned either of these backs over the last year plus, what was interesting/baffingly frustrating was how Arians played them. It was completely inconsistent, with some games where they split carries, and some games where one back got the lion's share of carries. 

I would have argued that RoJo solidly won the job based on performance and "look" on the field, but Arians flip-flopped starters even if RoJo had a much more productive game or lookes more consistent.

Can’t argue that too much. Adding Fournette certainly isn’t better for Jones. However, I don’t think LF is going to be someone who relegates RJ to the bench. My guess is he takes the reps they penciled in for McCoy. 
 

Fournette is also one of the worst blocking backs in the league. He won’t last long if he’s getting Brady hit. Jones had issues with blocking too, but has been reported to have worked on it a great deal. 
 

And it’s going to take some time to get Fournette up to speed. If Jones looks great out of the gate it’s going to be tough for Arians to move away from him. 

I don't think it's wrong at all to think Jones holds value as Fournette gets up to speed. I don't think anyone looks to buy into a player's value for just two weeks. There are two ways this can go, IMO, neither good for Jones:

1) Full blown committee -- Fournette early down and short yard/red zone back, RoJo as passing down back (the point about LF's pass pro woes are very poignant -- his 37.3 pass-blocking grade was 6 worst in all of football last year). This takes both touches and TDs away from Jones, and the impact offsets any value he might retain in PPR.

2) Arians rides hot hands as he has shown to do, and Fournette (who may not be great in pass pro but does have a great set of hands) becomes the lion's share guy as a proven 3-down back, relegating Jones to CoP.

Both seem equally likely, both equally killing RoJo's opportunity -- and thus his fantasy value.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He pretty solidly beat out Barber last year IMO.

Unlike 2018 where RoJo was going through some rookie growing pains, Barber was the better back. 

But I disagree about your take on 2019. RoJo took a solid step forward, improving across multiple areas and just looked more explosive and effective than Barber. For anyone who owned either of these backs over the last year plus, what was interesting/baffingly frustrating was how Arians played them. It was completely inconsistent, with some games where they split carries, and some games where one back got the lion's share of carries. 

It seems like you actually agreed with me.

 

[Faust]

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians reiterated Ronald Jones is "our guy" 24 hours after the team signed Leonard Fournette.

"It's his job," Arians stated. "Nothing's changed for him." Arians also said the team added "a heck of an insurance piece" in signing Fournette and "they'll see what role he has" out of camp. This situation has certainly become a befuddling one since LeSean McCoy is also expected to be involved, but at the end of the day it's still Fournette who has the highest touchdown equity of the bunch. Jones and Fournette are viable as low-end RB3 options with the likelihood one separates from the other mid-season.

SOURCE: Jon Ledyard on Twitter

Sep 3, 2020, 10:55 AM ET

 

[Judge Smails]

There are times where Jones showed great burst last year. But no doubt Fournette hurts his TD upside, and neither will be on the field on 3rd down.  May be a hard avoid for me

 

[Endowed]

However, I don’t think LF is going to be someone who relegates RJ to the bench. 

LF is going to force him to the bench. At least as the base set RB. 

 

[JFS171]

Is it plausible that all these moves are sort of Russian nesting dolls of one another? 

There was a pewter report article about takeaways from training camp that said the team really didn’t want to use Ogunbowale on third down. That tells me they wanted to upgrade their third down situation, which with statuesque Brady makes a whole lot of sense. It was a point of focus in the offseason for Jones as well, presumably at the behest of the team. 

So is it then plausible (if not likely) that they drafted Vaughn not to push Jones, but to upgrade Ogunbowale’s passing down role?  And then upon seeing him and how far behind he was, they signed McCoy, again with an eye on upgrading 3rd down and providing insurance?  And then after seeing McCoy (who looked washed to me in KC - remember Reid deactivated McCoy for the Super Bowl), as Arians just said himself, they had an opportunity to bring in a helluva insurance piece in Fournette?

It takes serious guts to buy when the night is the darkest, but we might all look back on this and think the buying opportunity for Jones was never better than right now. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There are times where Jones showed great burst last year. But no doubt Fournette hurts his TD upside, and neither will be on the field on 3rd down.  May be a hard avoid for me

This seems to be the consensus of sensible folks, and non-Fournette owners (and even a couple sensible Fournette owners)

Put me in this camp. Avoid both if you're drafting this weekend. If Fournette is going mid-4th, there are a lot more reliable/predictable guys at that ADP for me to take. Maybe I miss on a value, maybe I don't. I feel better not taking them. 

 

[Endowed]

 of sensible folks.. 

Why post that?

No need to take a personal shot at a  group of people who just see football things different.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Why post that garbage?

No need to take a personal shot at a  group of people who just see football things different.

It wasn't a personal shot at all. I didn't single out a single person. You're reading waaaaaay into that. 

There are always more and less sensible positions. You have extremes on both ends. Someone saying Fournette takes over before game 1, gets 300 touches and relegates Jones to the bench isn't being sensible. 

Someone saying he's of no threat to Jones carries because Arians said "blah blah" is also being less sensible about their evaluation. 

I meant "middle of the road" "conservative".  There was no personal shot at anyone. 

 

[Endowed]

Oof.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

It seems like you actually agreed with me.

No, I didn't.

There is a difference in RoJo passing my eye test and looking to me to be clearly improved and much better than Barber last year, and the way Arians chose to play them. Those are two separate and mutually inclusive things.

Arians may not have agreed with my assessment, but it seemed strange to me not to lean on RoJo when he was clearly more productive on similar carries (Rojo's 172/724/4.2 YPC vs Barber's 154/470/3.1 YPC).

I also find myself wishing more and more that this board had more balanced discourse than people just looking to prove their opinion "right" all the time. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

No, I didn't.

There is a difference in RoJo passing my eye test and looking to me to be clearly improved and much better than Barber last year, and the way Arians chose to play them. Those are two separate and mutually inclusive things.

I recall several times last year on in-game topics where members would observe a good series by Jones, followed by an absence and ineffective play,. There was a lot of frustration from not just Jones owners, but Bucs fans. 

I mean, sometimes it’s just football - your RB has been averaging 5+ yards a carry, so good football would be “keep doing that!”

but the next series you come out with Winston chucking it deep twice then running for his life on 3rd and 10, punt. 

That happened so often I started to wonder what the deal with Arians refusing to run the ball was. 

by the time Winston threw a couple pick-6s the game script pretty much erased RoJo.

he definitely looked like a decisive runner when given the opportunity, but the opportunities were totally inconsistent. 

Now I wonder if he was “showcasing” Winston to try to Convince management to get rid of him.

 

[Capella]

RoJo very thoroughly beat out Barber last year. They didn’t even entertain bringing Barber back. 

 

[JFS171]

Is it plausible that all these moves are sort of Russian nesting dolls of one another? 

There was a pewter report article about takeaways from training camp that said the team really didn’t want to use Ogunbowale on third down. That tells me they wanted to upgrade their third down situation, which with statuesque Brady makes a whole lot of sense. It was a point of focus in the offseason for Jones as well, presumably at the behest of the team. 

So is it then plausible (if not likely) that they drafted Vaughn not to push Jones, but to upgrade Ogunbowale’s passing down role?  And then upon seeing him and how far behind he was, they signed McCoy, again with an eye on upgrading 3rd down and providing insurance?  And then after seeing McCoy (who looked washed to me in KC - remember Reid deactivated McCoy for the Super Bowl), as Arians just said himself, they had an opportunity to bring in a helluva insurance piece in Fournette?

It takes serious guts to buy when the night is the darkest, but we might all look back on this and think the buying opportunity for Jones was never better than right now. 

Ogunbowale cut, despite being their special teams captain a year ago. 

 

[JetMaxx]

I still think RoJo is the RB to own here. Hunch tells me they want to surround Brady with as much “perceived” talent as possible. I mean they signed Shady, the guy is shot but has a name. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I still think RoJo is the RB to own here. Hunch tells me they want to surround Brady with as much “perceived” talent as possible. I mean they signed Shady, the guy is shot but has a name. 

Every good team knows the value of "perceived" talent. I doubt they really want to win games, as long as they have big names on the roster. 

 

[barackdhouse]

Every good team knows the value of "perceived" talent. I doubt they really want to win games, as long as they have big names on the roster. 

Yeah Brady isn't really the "winning games" type.

 

[Avery]

I'm looking to avoid this backfield - expect for the leagues where I already drafted Jones  - but there is a point where the value is just too good to pass up?

Not asking for advice on my draft but for reference - in a league I'm currently drafting in Fournette went in the mid 4th and that seems somewhat on par with what I'm hearing in other leagues and that seems way over-drafted considering the unknowns here.  Meanwhile Jones is still on the board in the mid 8th.  For reference Howard and White were the last two RBs drafted.

At what point in the draft is he too good a value to take swing at?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm looking to avoid this backfield - expect for the leagues where I already drafted Jones  - but there is a point where the value is just too good to pass up?

Not asking for advice on my draft but for reference - in a league I'm currently drafting in Fournette went in the mid 4th and that seems somewhat on par with what I'm hearing in other leagues and that seems way over-drafted considering the unknowns here.  Meanwhile Jones is still on the board in the mid 8th.  For reference Howard and White were the last two RBs drafted.

At what point in the draft is he too good a value to take swing at?

Here's the thing - if you're a TB and TB believer this year, taking a late round flier on RoJo isn't a terrible prospect. He's like the other back of the bench stashes - if Fournette goes down, you have a feature back in what should be a very stout offense. On paper, one of the best in the NFL. 

No different than drafting Mattison or L.Murray. You'll get some carries, catches & TDs. Unknown if it's enough to be flex-worthy. You draft for the injury-upside.  If you draft Fournette, you probably have to draft Jones. He's not the cheapest handcuff, but he's not the most expensive either. 

When's the point that you should take him? Woof....high end of ADP? A lot of folks won't touch him, but there's always that one owner who hasn't read the news since  June & picks him way too early. So long as you're  not that dude, you should get him pretty late. 

 

[Avery]

Here's the thing - if you're a TB and TB believer this year, taking a late round flier on RoJo isn't a terrible prospect. He's like the other back of the bench stashes - if Fournette goes down, you have a feature back in what should be a very stout offense. On paper, one of the best in the NFL. 

No different than drafting Mattison or L.Murray. You'll get some carries, catches & TDs. Unknown if it's enough to be flex-worthy. You draft for the injury-upside.  If you draft Fournette, you probably have to draft Jones. He's not the cheapest handcuff, but he's not the most expensive either. 

When's the point that you should take him? Woof....high end of ADP? A lot of folks won't touch him, but there's always that one owner who hasn't read the news since  June & picks him way too early. So long as you're  not that dude, you should get him pretty late. 

I'm not sure if I'd equate him with the likes of Murray and other "high end" backups.  I mean, many are ready to anoint Fournette the starter, and demote Jones to the backup.  But one guy who, at least publicly, isn't is their head coach.  I think that gives Jones a better path the fantasy relevance and value than a backup waiting for an injury to produce significant value.

Question is, at what point in the draft should he be taken.  I'm thinking he should go before those high end backups like Murray or Mattison as Jones has more path to relevance than those guys.  

Right?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

 But one guy who, at least publicly, isn't is their head coach.  

Would you expect a HC to publicly name a guy that’s been on the team for a day the starter over a guy that’s been there throughout camp?

Seems meaningless at this point.

 

[Avery]

Would you expect a HC to publicly name a guy that’s been on the team for a day the starter over a guy that’s been there throughout camp?

Seems meaningless at this point.

Yeah.  I'm not putting stock in it to the point that I'm taking that as gospel that Jones will start through the season.  However, Ariens could have also said, "We love Leonard as well as Ronald and we'll see how this all shakes out."  He didn't say that although many are discounting Ariens statements when they don't fit into their narrative of Fournette being the clear starter and Jones being the clear backup.

The information we currently have is: 
- Ariens tends to say what he means and thinks, although what he means and thinks may well change over time.
- No team wanted to trade for Fournette at his current relatively low cost of his contract
- Fournette signed an even lower money one year deal

I'm not saying that Jones will surely remain the starter and I'm by no means a "Ronald Jones truther", but it seems on the other hand people are too quick to say Jones is the clear backup and I don't see much evidence of that today other than a lot of wishful thinking.

 

[I-ROK]

So much for this guy being better than Fournette... I think we can tie a bow on this guy now, yes?

 

[Grahamburn]

So much for this guy being better than Fournette... I think we can tie a bow on this guy now, yes?

Not a good day for Ronald other than the TD run.  He didn't see many snaps after the mishandled exchange with Brady. 

 

[Banger]

it looks like this situation will be a game to game audition.  They have 2 competent backs and if one guy steps up and plays well Ariens will roll with him...if he falters or fumbles the other guy will get the ball.  I don't see how you can confidently start either guy at this point until we get more information.

 

[shadrap]

it looks like this situation will be a game to game audition.  They have 2 competent backs and if one guy steps up and plays well Ariens will roll with him...if he falters or fumbles the other guy will get the ball.  I don't see how you can confidently start either guy at this point until we get more information.

sadly this is the situation for now.

 

[Dizzy]

it looks like this situation will be a game to game audition.  They have 2 competent backs and if one guy steps up and plays well Ariens will roll with him...if he falters or fumbles the other guy will get the ball.  I don't see how you can confidently start either guy at this point until we get more information.

If you believe the Bucc's will be playing with the lead in the 4th QTR then expect to see a lot of Fournette. Need a guy that can move the pile with the lead and he's got about 25 lbs on RoJo and better instincts IMO.

Jones has had plenty of opportunities to seize this job. I would give the edge to Fournette going forward.

 

[I-ROK]

it looks like this situation will be a game to game audition.  They have 2 competent backs and if one guy steps up and plays well Ariens will roll with him...if he falters or fumbles the other guy will get the ball.  I don't see how you can confidently start either guy at this point until we get more information.

Kind of a glass half full approach here.

Arians said himself- this is Jones’ job to lose. And it looks like he lost it. Sure, the pendulum could swing back the other way, but consider this- Fournette showed in his second week on the team more than Jones has showed in 2.125 seasons. I see this as it was Jones’ job to lose, but now that Fournette has shown a considerable amount of digestion of the playbook, Fournette has leap frogged Jones. We know what Fournette can do. Jones’ potential is still a pipe dream and probably where it stops now that there is a competent back to push him for the job

 

[DocHolliday]

it looks like this situation will be a game to game audition.  They have 2 competent backs and if one guy steps up and plays well Ariens will roll with him...if he falters or fumbles the other guy will get the ball.  I don't see how you can confidently start either guy at this point until we get more information.

Agree with this.   It is now Fournettes job to lose in TB but I do expect to see Jones on the field.   

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

 

[Faust]

Ronald Jones rushed 13 times for 53 yards and caught 2-of-4 targets for 20 yards in Week 3 against the Broncos.

Jones out-touched Leonard Fournette this week, who had nine touches. The Bucs continued to rotate all three of their backs, with LeSean McCoy getting a few snaps on third downs. Jones is the touch-favorite moving forward but he's not getting a ton of goal-line of pass game work. He's an RB3 play against the Chargers in Week 4.

Sep 27, 2020, 7:38 PM ET

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Anyone who watched the game, can you chime in?

Was Fournette struggling? Or is this -- I am assuming -- what we've been seeing in TB all along : Arians being completely and utterly baffling on who he gives touches to week in and week out.

Didn't even see McCoy register in the box score.

 

[Grahamburn]

Weird game script honestly. 1 yard TD throws to Evans after Jones was stopped just short. The Bucs has multiple 1st and 20 or 2nd and 20 series in the second half. A nice run by Jones called back on a hold. Everyone knew Denver couldn’t move the ball. They were just kind of grinding the clock the whole second half. 

 

[The Frankman]

Anyone who watched the game, can you chime in?

Was Fournette struggling? Or is this -- I am assuming -- what we've been seeing in TB all along : Arians being completely and utterly baffling on who he gives touches to week in and week out.

Didn't even see McCoy register in the box score.

This.

I mean they didn't even use Fournette as the clock killing back, they kept Jones III in. I don't think after 3 games we know who has a guaranteed role in any facet.

 

[Grahamburn]

Fournette also had a missed exchange/fumble early in the game. 

 

[Dizzy]

Fournette also had a missed exchange/fumble early in the game. 

This seemed like the trigger yesterday. Didn't this exact thing happen last week, only with the Jones/Fournette roles reversed?

 

[Grahamburn]

This seemed like the trigger yesterday. Didn't this exact thing happen last week, only with the Jones/Fournette roles reversed?

Yes.

 

[sho nuff]

Fournette again no practice today...where do you put Jones if Fournette is unable to go?

Currently thinking he will be my flex ahead of Kelley and Jeff Wilson Jr now that McKinnon was practicing again. (though, depending on Saturday's waivers...one of those 2 RBs may be dropped for my for Zack Moss who was dropped this week)

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Fournette again no practice today...where do you put Jones if Fournette is unable to go?

Currently thinking he will be my flex ahead of Kelley and Jeff Wilson Jr now that McKinnon was practicing again. (though, depending on Saturday's waivers...one of those 2 RBs may be dropped for my for Zack Moss who was dropped this week)

Rock solid flex with upside. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I see RJ reasserting himself into the mix after he shows up this weekend. Fournette will likely be out and this is a pretty winnable game for the Bucs, should be a lot of 2nd half carries. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hey remember right after the Fournette trade when Fournette owners flooded this topic, with many of them (figuratively) throwing a shovel full of dirt on RoJo’s grave? 

Week 4. Life comes at ya fast.  
 

Hope he takes the job & never looks back.  

 

[sho nuff]

Rock solid flex with upside. 

He is my flex as of now...Wilson could if McKinnon were to have a set back and not play.

Kelley may be the odd man out on my team for an emergency wr.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

He is my flex as of now...Wilson could if McKinnon were to have a set back and not play.

Kelley may be the odd man out on my team for an emergency wr.

He’s my RB2 right now.  Tough season. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Rock solid flex with upside. 

Upside? Sure.

Rock solid? No.

I'm left with very little choice so I'm trotting him out but expecting the ol' 5-6 points.

ETA sounds like a lot of us have the same stable from RB2 on -- Rojo, Kelley, Wilson.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Upside? Sure.

Rock solid? No.

I'm left with very little choice so I'm trotting him out but expecting the ol' 5-6 points.

Bucs are a good team that seems to be gelling. With no Godwin I think they run a lot.  

 

[IHEARTFF]

Bucs are a good team that seems to be gelling. With no Godwin I think they run a lot.  

yeah they are improving each week. will be a legit good team in nfc playoffs.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

yeah they are improving each week. will be a legit good team in nfc playoffs.

I’m not ready to crown em yet. 

(Paging, Mr Green....Mr Green, line 1)