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"Real" fans and whether your opinion is valid... (1 Viewer)

Agree or disagree with this statement, "Agree or disagree with the statement ""Only p

  • EXTREME agreement - this is absolute truth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strongly agree

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Slightly agree

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Slightly disagree

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Strongly disagree

    Votes: 13 10.7%
  • EXTREME disagreement - this is laughable

    Votes: 103 85.1%

  • Total voters
    121

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This is in the gray area between Shark Pool and FFA but since it's April, I'll give it some leeway.

Here's the question: How do you feel about this statement?:

"Only people who have season tickets, have supported the team and were at every game should have an opinion on the University or team and this team's performance."
I heard a fan say this (who is a season ticket holder and a very nice and well meaning person) and thought it was pretty interesting.

What do you think?

J

 
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Im a Bills fan in Tampa. Have been for over 20 years. I dont have season tickets obviously. Pretty sure the above statement is complete crap. I dont think fans need to go to every game. Hell, as a football fan, I havent even been to a game in about 5 years (too expensive).

 
I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Some of us follow a team and have been uprooted by jobs and circumstances beyond our control. I know it must seem odd to be a Raider fan in Florida, but that doesn't erase a lifetime of rooting for them and memories of going to the games as a kid. If season ticket holder stubs are the proof of fandom, then I guess I can buy season tix to Bucs games and be a true fan. That's so cockamamie that I can't even begin....

 
Joe, are you looking to shut down FBG? Because that's the only outcome pending one of the two possible answers to that question.

There are what - thousands? - of sports writers who don't own season tickets that are better informed about teams than folks who pony up money to see games in person.

 
That comment from that guy is so ridiculous that's it isn't even a good fishing trip
Hi Ramblin

But it's interesting as I'm certain the person isn't fishing and I think they truly believe this. But I've asked them if they really believe it. We'll see what they say.

J

 
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That comment from that guy is so ridiculous that's it isn't even a good fishing trip
Hi Ramblin

But it's interesting as I'm certain the person isn't fishing and I think they truly believe this. But I've asked them if they really believe it. We'll see what they say.

J
Sounds like more of an entitlement issue. You see or hear stuff similar to this when a new'ish fan starts liking a team...some people look down on them since they've ONLY been a fan for 1-2-3 years.

I also don't have the season ticket #'s for every team but the # of people who should have an opinion seems like it would be small.

FWIW, I have a Dr friend who has 4 Redzone seats at the linc and he probably couldnt name 10 Eagles :shrug:

 
If they really were serious, I would have to question the person as to why it matters if they were at the game vs watching the game on television? Essentially, they are suggesting that the only way to have a valid opinion on a team is to 1. be able to afford season tickets (which a fair number of people either can not do or choose to spend their money elsewhere) and 2. live close enough or be able to afford for travel to every game.

And if you have to be at every home game, why not every away game to, since apparently "being" at the game is so important.

It just seems like there are a ton of glaring flaws in the argument. I suppose everyone's opinion is as valid as the opinion of anyone else, but logically the opinion of only those who were "at every game" really narrows the field of who have an opinion on their favorite teams performance.

 
That comment from that guy is so ridiculous that's it isn't even a good fishing trip
Right on. It's also one of the main reasons I detest going to most games. Far too many people think because they paid for a ticket they also got some sort of injection of knowledge at the turn style at the gate. More often than anything it sounds like parents at a pee wee game who all think their kid is a star and they are an expert.

 
Sitting in judgement of other fans....grading their fervor.......pass. What kind of hubris is that?

I could make a very strong argument that attending the games, and overpaying for everything from the second you leave your house till you get home, all while enjoying a lesser viewing experience, is a sign of a less intelligent fan. Now, I don't actually believe that, I love attending games, but it's pretty easy to make that argument.

 
Sitting in judgement of other fans....grading their fervor.......pass. What kind of hubris is that?

I could make a very strong argument that attending the games, and overpaying for everything from the second you leave your house till you get home, all while enjoying a lesser viewing experience, is a sign of a less intelligent fan. Now, I don't actually believe that, I love attending games, but it's pretty easy to make that argument.
Agreed. Obviously the biggest fan would prefer to go to the game then not go, but not going to a game has nothing to do with how big of a fan you are. Not a lot of people can afford season tickets to their favorite team and I'd argue that most people that can probably don't have the time (working hard) to follow the team as much as somebody with a normal 9-5 job that doesn't get paid as much.

I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees with this and this thread is meant to prove a point to somebody though so there's no point in getting into too much detail.

 
From a blanket perspective it's a silly statement.

From my experiences, the majority of the Browns fans I have encountered that are season ticket holder's are usually blind homer's until September every single year. The standard exceptions to every rule, yadda yadda yadda, but that's the majority.

College? The opposite. Students withstanding, those that attend every game are a lot more critical, often times to a fault. The fans that don't at least regularly attend games usually don't seem as in touch.

I think this comes back in large part to media coverage. The media covers the mecca's of college football pretty thoroughly, but the vast majority fly under the radar. The media covers all things NFL, so those that absorb everything are usually more objective than those that eat, sleep, breathe their own team.

I usually make it to one Browns game per year and watch every game on tv. I grew up a Michigan fan, but being 3+ hours with a young family now making it to a game will be a chore. Used to go a minimum once per year, but I haven't been to one in a few years. It's easier to see my alma mater, Bowling Green, because there's at least one game per year in northeast Ohio. I make sure to get to one game per year, used to be 2 or 3, but again the young family has changed things. I rarely miss either team if they're on tv though.

 
Panthers fan and I usually make it to about one game a year. The only time I really enjoy the stadium experience is when I have seats that I can only afford once or twice a season. Not to mention, it usually takes me about two hours to get there and about 4-5 hours to get home because of traffic. In most cases, I prefer to watch the games at home with my friends.

A big part of that is because the stadium experience in Carolina is horrible. If you stand up on third down, you can almost guarantee that the guy behind you will yell at you to sit down. If you talk smack to fans of other teams, even if it's in fun, you can be kicked out if that person gets annoyed and reports you to the stadium security.

It's more fun to watch with my friends at home. I don't think that makes me a bad fan.

 
I'm a niners fan, have been since I can remember. My Dad was a huge Niners fan and growing up it's hard not to cheer for the same team your dad does. Some of my best memories were waiting on the schedule release each year to see which game we would get to go to. We always went to one away game as there was always a game within a 4 hour drive. So I've never actually been to a 49ers home game, but I will someday when I have the free time and money to fly out there, but for now, I'm content going to an away game a year and watching the rest on TV (this year was extremely convenient as they came to Nashville :D )

I wonder if my son will grow up a Niners fan or a Titans fan, we shall see. I'd love for him to be a Niners fan with me, but it's so much easier to be a fan of the hometeam, especially when they play 15 minutes away.

I don't view myself as any less of a fan then someone who can go to every game. I follow the beat writers during the offseason, and watch every game.

 
Voted strongly disagree. Appears to be a comment that someone who was raised with "a sense of entitlement over those less fortunate than themselves" would make. I'm not convinced it's a laughable comment as I believe there are people in the world who truly believe comments like this and don't find it incredulous to think that way. I strongly disagree with the comment, nonetheless.

 
College? The opposite. Students withstanding, those that attend every game are a lot more critical, often times to a fault. The fans that don't at least regularly attend games usually don't seem as in touch.
College fans are more complex. There are the real "we" whom are the students and employees of the university, and the fake "we" whom are the local fans that never went to the university. Often times the students are more in tune with the team and the locals are not.

 
A big part of that is because the stadium experience in Carolina is horrible. If you stand up on third down, you can almost guarantee that the guy behind you will yell at you to sit down. If you talk smack to fans of other teams, even if it's in fun, you can be kicked out if that person gets annoyed and reports you to the stadium security.
I've been going to Panther games since they became a franchise, and I have never had anyone tell me to sit down. A lot of people stand up during plays, and talking smack to other fans has never been a problem from my own personal experience.

 
Sounds like a season ticket holder "fan" that just hasn't realized it is much more beneficial financially and much more comfortable to watch it from his house.

 
College? The opposite. Students withstanding, those that attend every game are a lot more critical, often times to a fault. The fans that don't at least regularly attend games usually don't seem as in touch.
College fans are more complex. There are the real "we" whom are the students and employees of the university, and the fake "we" whom are the local fans that never went to the university. Often times the students are more in tune with the team and the locals are not.
Granted most of my exposure is limited to the midwest, but I think it really varies school to school. Analyze the students, employees, locals, and alumni of Michigan vs. Ohio vs. Penn St vs. Michigan St vs. Wisconsin etc. and you will have different answers across the board. On a smaller scale, similar story with Miami (OH) vs. Bowling Green vs. Ohio U vs Kent etc.

 
College? The opposite. Students withstanding, those that attend every game are a lot more critical, often times to a fault. The fans that don't at least regularly attend games usually don't seem as in touch.
College fans are more complex. There are the real "we" whom are the students and employees of the university, and the fake "we" whom are the local fans that never went to the university. Often times the students are more in tune with the team and the locals are not.
My experience is pretty different from yours it seems. More often than not, the students just go to the games because it's a fun social event for them to attend and party. Most of them don't know squat about football but may hang out with a player or 2 because of classes,ect. Even the ones who do know something about football are usually too intoxicated to articulate anything worth while. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this. It's part of the fun of going to college. The local fans usually support the team because they have genuine passion for the game. They're not at the game because it's the best party going on Sat.

 
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For what it's worth, I asked the person if they really meant it. I asked, "Do you really believe, 'Only people who have season tickets, have supported the team and were at every game should have an opinion on the University or team and this team's performance.'. If so, can you help me unpack that some about who is allowed to have an opinion? Thanks."

The answer was:

"of course I do, we are they only ones who invested monies into the program"
:unsure:

J

 
Sounds like a season ticket holder "fan" that just hasn't realized it is much more beneficial financially and much more comfortable to watch it from his house.
Yup. Trying to convince himself that the 100k he's spent over the past 10 years has made him better than everyone else.

 
For what it's worth, I asked the person if they really meant it. I asked, "Do you really believe, 'Only people who have season tickets, have supported the team and were at every game should have an opinion on the University or team and this team's performance.'. If so, can you help me unpack that some about who is allowed to have an opinion? Thanks."

The answer was:

"of course I do, we are they only ones who invested monies into the program"
:unsure:

J
There's so much wrong with that statement, I don't know where to begin.

But I see the underlying context he/she is driving towards, especially in the context of having an opinion that is factored into actual decisions by said team / management. (Yet I still don't buy the argument that monetary involvement is the only prerequisite to drive policy change.)

That context is different than an opinion being equated with "expert", which I think is what most of us took from the original question.

 
NFL only:

The game has been corrupted and infused with corporate ties and monies.."The Fan" as we know it is dead at the stadium....Joe average cannot take his family to A game without taking a loan out first. Want a beer? OK fork over $10 per...Parking? $22 ...Hot dog? $8 ...It's just sad really. "The Fan" can be found at home on his couch with friends he loves to be around and enjoying a sumptuous meal and all the beer he wants for the price of just a ticket. All the while enjoying better views, the safety in knowing that security will not have to be called, awesome food and free parking for all. Mothers who love football and want to see their team play can relax and enjoy the game at home knowing little Suzy will not be harassed by a total stranger that cannot cope with his team losing...Add in your random knife fight and you can see Home is where "The Fan " is. Also, that stadium your team is enjoying to the tune of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Millions of dollars? Built (usually) with the help of the taxpayer who is being squeezed out.

 
Before everyone starts focusing on the financial impact of going to the games, can we simplify the statement a little? This is kind of akin to saying the only people who should criticize a President should be the ones who financially contribute to their campaign--some people can't afford it but it doesn't make their opinion less (or more) valid. Besides, there are varying degrees of financial contribution. People have hats, jerseys, etc. and those all are contributions to a team's bottom line as well. Just because someone can afford (or even just enjoys) attending the games doesn't mean anything.

Hell, I sit next to a bunch of people who are basically morons regarding the team and the game.

Additionally to the folks who ridicule going to the games: everyone has their own version of entertainment and it takes a very ridiculous point of view to say watching from home is "better". It is just as far off the mark as the original statement from the OP.

 
Before everyone starts focusing on the financial impact of going to the games, can we simplify the statement a little? This is kind of akin to saying the only people who should criticize a President should be the ones who financially contribute to their campaign--some people can't afford it but it doesn't make their opinion less (or more) valid. Besides, there are varying degrees of financial contribution. People have hats, jerseys, etc. and those all are contributions to a team's bottom line as well. Just because someone can afford (or even just enjoys) attending the games doesn't mean anything.

Hell, I sit next to a bunch of people who are basically morons regarding the team and the game.

Additionally to the folks who ridicule going to the games: everyone has their own version of entertainment and it takes a very ridiculous point of view to say watching from home is "better". It is just as far off the mark as the original statement from the OP.
This is a valid point. For most fans and the NFL though, finance is everything. Truly.

btw's- not ridiculing if you can toss that cash around without pause do so... you should. Life is short. lol

 
Thanks Gordon,

I keep hearing about you saying people "attack". You can help me a ton in please just click the Report button in the lower right of the post. I'll take a look. It's often a blurry line between adults disagreeing and attacking. Please let me know specifically when you see this by using the report button. Thanks a lot.

J

 
In 2003 I had season tickets to the Colts on the 50 yard line and in the first 10 rows. These tickets were about $150 a piece IIRC and the people there were nice, well-meaning folks but hardly what I'd call hard-core fans. I'm sure there are million Colts fans (not to mentioned non-fans) outside of the state of Indiana more knowledgeable about the team than these people.

 
The voting is obviously insanely one-sided. I am intrigued to hear from the 2 votes that strongly agree. If there is another side to this that I am not seeing, I would love to hear it.

 
GordonGekko said:
Joe Bryant said:
"Only people who have season tickets, have supported the team and were at every game should have an opinion on the University or team and this team's performance."
What do you think?
IMHO, the statement should not be taken at face value.

Here's the problem with that kind of statement, it usually derives from a person who is too possessive of their local sports team, often to a point of fanaticism and usually someone with limited critical thinking skills/ability.

The person reads all the articles, reads all the blogs, gets all the games or goes to them and needs to be the "Guy" Hey look it's the "Niners Guy" or the "Seahawks Guy"

And if you contradict anything they say, or have a different opinion, you will just carpetbombed by them over and over again.

This can happen in real life or it can happen on the Internet.

Look at all the dedicated team threads here in the Shark Pool. Not hard to find the "Team Guy" in each thread. The guy who believes he has read everything, talked to everyone, has all the team history, and is the exact right armchair GM to run the team. Anyone else is wrong, any other opinion not valid and God Forbid you commit the crime to not think like them.

All it does it drives away subscribers, potential subscribers and general participation. Lots of people would like to talk football without being personally attacked again and again and again. Honestly, try talking some Patriots football here and dare to have a different opinion than the homer crowd. You will be attacked. It's not if, it's when. It's my long standing criticism of Yudkin, whom I like on a personal level, but that he let too many of the Patriots homers get away with it for far too long. Same with the Steelers. Same with the Browns. Same with the Eagles. There are just some specific teams on this board where some of the long time established homers will go on the offensive when they don't like you or don't like your opinion.

The quote you quoted isn't a football issue, it's ad hominem, it's derailing from a football matter to a personal matter because for a person with low critical thinking ability and poor logical reasoning, to attack the person means to invalidate their viewpoints.

A month ago, the same poster and I went back and forth about Jimmy Graham and his contract status and why a team would or would not give up two first round picks in a trade. And like clockwork, the other guy simply ran out of steam because he had nothing left but his own viewpoint against NFL trends and then started to go on the attack.

One of the great things about sports is that two people who have nothing else in common can find common ground. Rich guy and poor guy. Educated guy and blue collar guy. White collar job or ditch digger. If you love football, you can have common ground. It CAN be a great thing, how sports fits into the culture and socialization between people.

However the reality is that a lot of people out there are jack offs. They feel entitled to not just their opinions but also everyone elses.

As a business person, all I can say is each time it's allowed to happen on FBG, it costs you money. It's food off your plate, off the plates of your Staff, their kids and devalues the brand and the site. The "You Need A Thick Skin" to participate here mantra that I see some of your members push, ones with tens of thousands of posts and feel like they have ownership to some small section of FBG as a personal fiefdom, is just a soft weak cover for a lack of excellence to their fellow fan and a general lack of civility.

My suggestion Joe Bryant? Go register a regular guy account sometime and just post about football like a regular guy in here, without the weight of your Site Admin/Owner label, and go in as an "unknown" and see how often you are attacked for things like liking one QB over another or daring to see some football issue one way when the thread "Team Guy" needs to exert to you who is the biggest stick in his little Net fiefdom. Then ask yourself if you were just a regular guy, would you want to subscribe? Would you want to participate regularly? Would you want to talk football everyday here under those conditions?

I've always said here in the Shark Pool and in the FAA, never look for the better answer, look for the better questions, because the better answers reveal themselves on their own that way. IMHO, start asking a different kind of question on why someone would make a quote like that and even moreso, act that way on your board, and I think you'll find the answers to be patently disturbing.
Losing lots of revenue from Shark Pool memberships?

 
You go to any homer message board, or even here in a homer thread, the term "we" is bandied about. I always found those who use that term although rabid fans, also are very myopic. I think everybody here knows where I am as a fan of the 49ers. But I stay in the away from any team hype. I watch this team on my own. I don't have any team swag. I haven't been to a game since Steve Young and Jerry Rice, and I'm not at all excited about the new stadium, even though it should be a nice state of the art one.

I guess it's all about community and I get that. But it doesn't translate well in the internet. I don't spend any money towards the 49ers. Absolutely zero dollars. I'm sure those fellow 49er fans here do. There is nothing wrong with that.

Either of us who spend or don't has one certain reality amongst almost all of us: "we" ultimately have nothing to do with the actual day to day of the team. It doesn't matter how many posts I have over the years about them. It doesn't matter. So those on a message board who say "you're not a true fan like 'we' or 'us'" - which happens even here - all I can say to them is:

"Then you go babysit Aldon Smith tonight"

 
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This is laughable. Sounds like another typical case of rich man's syndrome. Not that you have to be rich to own season tickets, but a regular Joe with season tickets, I can't see saying this as much. Sounds a lot like the rich business owners who think either poor people's votes shouldn't count, or that their's should count for more.

 
This is laughable. Sounds like another typical case of rich man's syndrome. Not that you have to be rich to own season tickets, but a regular Joe with season tickets, I can't see saying this as much. Sounds a lot like the rich business owners who think either poor people's votes shouldn't count, or that their's should count for more.
This isn't directed just at you, you were the last person to say this though...

I don't exactly understand the immediate desire of some folks to label this person "rich" or that this is some indication of "what rich people do". I believe I'm classified as rich (although I don't see it that way) and have season tickets. There is no way I would ever think this entitles me in some way over another fan (or for anything else in life).

If you want my opinion, this actually sounds more like what a "poor" person would say because the amount of money they are spending is at greater cost and has more meaning to them. But then again, there is no way I can make that call because there isn't enough info to go on. In other words, all demographics disagree so much with this statement everyone is mentally distancing themselves from it as much as possible.

 
This is laughable. Sounds like another typical case of rich man's syndrome. Not that you have to be rich to own season tickets, but a regular Joe with season tickets, I can't see saying this as much. Sounds a lot like the rich business owners who think either poor people's votes shouldn't count, or that their's should count for more.
This isn't directed just at you, you were the last person to say this though...

I don't exactly understand the immediate desire of some folks to label this person "rich" or that this is some indication of "what rich people do". I believe I'm classified as rich (although I don't see it that way) and have season tickets. There is no way I would ever think this entitles me in some way over another fan (or for anything else in life).

If you want my opinion, this actually sounds more like what a "poor" person would say because the amount of money they are spending is at greater cost and has more meaning to them. But then again, there is no way I can make that call because there isn't enough info to go on. In other words, all demographics disagree so much with this statement everyone is mentally distancing themselves from it as much as possible.
Word up. I'm not sure what would cause a poor person to think this way though, since in all likelihood, they are not in charge of most of anything in their life.

 
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