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Red Sox - Hot Stove - 2008/2009 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Finless
- Start date
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
What is your ideal starting lineup opening day April 2009:SS Rafael Furcal2B Dustin PedroiaDH David Ortiz1B Mark Texiera3B Kevin YoukilisRF JD DrewLF Jason BayC Jason Varitek (I just dont see anything in free agency and not sure who they would trade for)CF Jacoby EllsburyJason Bay in the 7 spot makes for a much deeper lineup. Right now I like Ellsbury more at the bottom of the order because of his poor OBP. The Sox can afford both Furcal and Texeira if Furcal is healthy.Jed Lowrie would take over Alex Cora's utulity role. I'm not sure what they would do with Mike Lowell. They could still keep Crisp as the 4th outfielder. That would be a pretty good bench. Lowell is an expensive guy to have on the bench but they wouldnt be the first team to have a major expense riding the pine (see the Dodgers).SPBeckettDice KLesterWakefieldBuchholzWakefield cannot handle a lineup like the Rays but is still a valuable asset over a 162 game season. If not him then resign Paul Byrd. I am willing to go to bat with Lester, Dice K and Beckett in the playoffs again in '09. Pitching wasnt the problem this year.BPPapelbonMastersonOkajimaDelcarmanI dont think the Sox need to spend much money on the pitching staff. WHAT DO THE REST OF YOU SEE THE TEAM LOOKING LIKE?
Capella
Footballguy
Obviously if they get Teixiera they're the clear favorite in the AL...but the Angels and Yanks have deep pockets as well, and with the money they're giving Lowell (and the fact they would have no place to play him) I highly doubt that happens.
As I said in another thread, it all hinges on Ortiz, anyways. If he's done he's probably taking the team down with him. No way to replace that bat right now.
But to be honest, your biggest need is a 4 and a 5 in the rotation. Wake will be 43 and Clay isn't ready. You can't go into next year with that rotation. Not to mention DiceK's numbers are unsustainable if he keeps putting guys on base like that. And that whole Beckett oblique thing.
Yea, you guys need SP.
As I said in another thread, it all hinges on Ortiz, anyways. If he's done he's probably taking the team down with him. No way to replace that bat right now.
But to be honest, your biggest need is a 4 and a 5 in the rotation. Wake will be 43 and Clay isn't ready. You can't go into next year with that rotation. Not to mention DiceK's numbers are unsustainable if he keeps putting guys on base like that. And that whole Beckett oblique thing.
Yea, you guys need SP.
Finless
Footballguy
BeckettLesterDaisukeMastersonBuccholzBowdenWakefieldI don't think the glaring need is in starting pitching. We need some bullpen. Daisuke made some strides this year and I expect his BB/K ratio to be the focus in the offseason. He's already shown he can get the outs when they are needed. Walks without runs are just a waste of pitches and a bullpen waste. He'll load them up then strike out the next two at bats. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a run at one of the big pitcher FAs but the rotation is still one of the strongest in the AL.I expect a big bat like Teixeira to come aboard. They also expect big things from Lars Anderson. I don't see them making a move for Furcal. I think Lowrie is our future at short. I could possibly see a trade involving Lowrie for another SS but I wouldn't be surprised to see him stick around for a few years.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Cappella,I never said Texeira was anything close to a sure thing. He is what I would want for the big bat we are missing. There will be big competition for him and he basically will have his choice.If Beckett isnt healthy, yeah, obviously they need starting pitching. If they sign Texeira and nobody else for the offense, then they could go after a guy like Burnett. Furcal is a longshot anyway. I only put him in because he allows the rest of their lineup to fall into place. As I said, I like Ellsbury at the bottom of the order at this stage. My changes only contemplate free agency. The trade is also open to the Sox with some of the prospects that they have (and Crisp).What to do with Lowell would definitely be a quandry. I dont really think he is tradeable coming off an injury and with his contract. The Yankees have had Giambi as a $19 million insurance policy, I'm sure it isnt there preference but the Sox could afford Lowell as a swing man between 1st, 3rd and DH.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
What experience with Francona?
HellToupee
Footballguy
I don't think we'll see Masterson leaving the pen but I do think Bowden will be in the rotation
Didn't he play for Terry in Texas? I'm pretty sure that I have heard Francona mention how he enjoyed working with Tex.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I wasnt sure that Francona was a coach in Texas after getting fired in Philly. Thanks for setting me straight.
Your Mother
Footballguy
Barring some sudden breakthrough, I don't think either Bowden, Masterson or Anderson could be effective next year. Maybe serviceable, or maybe good in 2+ years, but they all have a ways to go. Buccholz, maybe.Peavy's contract is pretty reasonable, I would not be surprised to see Boston try to lure him over.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Not a bad idea but the Sox have chips for one big trade. If they dont sign Texeira, they will need those trade chips for a BAT. I really dont see anyone else in FA as a positional player that I like so if not Texeira, it needs to be a trade.Your Mother said:
Your Mother
Footballguy
Too many walks. His K/BB threshold for being effective is a little lower because he's a GB pitcher, but he had a difficult time preventing free passes in his 9 starts this year. His ERA/WHIP look good because he had a lucky BABIP, but that's likely to normalize. He looked far more effective in the pen this year, translating that into being an effective starter isn't always possible.Why Me? said:What makes you think Masterson couldn't be effective next year?Your Mother said:I hope they move him to the rotation and find a set up guy elsewhere.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
On sports talk this morning people were wondering if the Sox should move Ortiz and bring in Teixeira. THey went over the numbers and a healthy Ortiz was actually slightly better than Teixeira based on 162 game averages . . .
Tex
612 AB
101 R
177 H
40 2B
2 3B
36 HR
121 RBI
79 BB
124 K
.290 AVG
.378 OBP
.541 SLG
.919 OPS
Papi
604 AB
114 R
179 H
45 2B
2 3B
44 HR
140 RBI
102 BB
121 K
.297 AVG
.401 OBP
.598 SLG
.999 OPS
I personally feel Youk's best position is first base, so he should go back there. THe Sox need to see about the health of Lowell and Papi, as they are probably the best options they have or could get at their positions. Not sure breaking the bank for Teixeira makes much sense.
Tex
612 AB
101 R
177 H
40 2B
2 3B
36 HR
121 RBI
79 BB
124 K
.290 AVG
.378 OBP
.541 SLG
.919 OPS
Papi
604 AB
114 R
179 H
45 2B
2 3B
44 HR
140 RBI
102 BB
121 K
.297 AVG
.401 OBP
.598 SLG
.999 OPS
I personally feel Youk's best position is first base, so he should go back there. THe Sox need to see about the health of Lowell and Papi, as they are probably the best options they have or could get at their positions. Not sure breaking the bank for Teixeira makes much sense.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
How about breaking the prospect bank for Hanley Ramirez...or is he considered untouchable by the Marlins? I would figure that some combo of top prospects would get it done. The Sox seem to have a black hole at SS .
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I heard the Sox will at least talk to the Padres about Peavy. Basically a CF, a solid pitching prospect, and something else was what would get talks going. Peavy has said he wants to stay in the NL. Not sure if that's a major area for concern or not.
Part of the problem for the Sox is that they are overpaying for guys in their weaker positions. Drew, while occasionally a clutch hitter and decent player, the majority of the time is not worth $14 million a year. Crisp and Ellsbury are both good fielders with speed but not great hitters or tablesetters.
Lugo was an unmitigated disaster and Lowrie (while decent in the field) hit about .190 in August and September. Lowell probably wasn't worth the contract he signed (although that one is more debatable) and has been banged up and geting older. And as we all know, Varitek can't hit anymore. Add in Ortiz with his wrist injury and all these guys are ok options but not great.
The good news is they don't have to pay Manny ($+20M), they won't have to pay Schilling (+$8M), and they are done paying their part of Renteria (+$7M). That's $35 million they can spent elsewhere (although I'm afraid they will have to pay other teams again to take their deadwood).
Part of the problem for the Sox is that they are overpaying for guys in their weaker positions. Drew, while occasionally a clutch hitter and decent player, the majority of the time is not worth $14 million a year. Crisp and Ellsbury are both good fielders with speed but not great hitters or tablesetters.
Lugo was an unmitigated disaster and Lowrie (while decent in the field) hit about .190 in August and September. Lowell probably wasn't worth the contract he signed (although that one is more debatable) and has been banged up and geting older. And as we all know, Varitek can't hit anymore. Add in Ortiz with his wrist injury and all these guys are ok options but not great.
The good news is they don't have to pay Manny ($+20M), they won't have to pay Schilling (+$8M), and they are done paying their part of Renteria (+$7M). That's $35 million they can spent elsewhere (although I'm afraid they will have to pay other teams again to take their deadwood).
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Well, the last deadwood we took on was Lowell in the Beckett/Ramirez deal and he worked out pretty well.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
You have any takers for Lugo or Drew?
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Teams like the Red Sox TAKE ON deadwood. Rarely are they able to dish off their deadwood (to be fair, JD Drew is not in that category). I do have a buddy in Boston that is convinced the Sox will be able to trade Lugo if they pay most of his salary.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Spike
Footballguy
I'd be surprised if he goes for that "little". I don't see him signing for less than 6 years.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
I don't see any big moves coming. The Teixeira stuff has really died down. I think they'll grab a mid-level IF and maybe a back of the rotation pitcher.
And I think the Yankees go into 2009 with a better squad because of it.
And I think the Yankees go into 2009 with a better squad because of it.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not so sure the Sox just sit idly by and let other teams improve themselves. Sox are saving boatloads of money from Manny ($20M), Schilling ($8M), no longer having to pay their share of Renteria (their share was $7M), Kotsay (his contract was at $7M a year), Tavarez ($4M), Crisp ($5M), Timlin ($3M), Colon ($2M), Casey ($1M) etc. That's saving them like $50 million. Can't see why they would just sit on that money.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Where do you think they're going then?I think they need to make a strong push for Teixeira. Ortiz is done in another 2 seasons. Teix could be the heir. FA's like Tex come around very rarely.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
You don't consider signing Japanese phenom pitcher Junichi Tazawa a major move?
Word on the street here in the Boston area is they will put on a full court press to woo Tex and try to trade Lowell (while eating some of his salary).It was reported the other day that the Sox had $40-$60M to spent in the offseason.I laughed when I heard this morning that they would be talking to Sabathia in the next few days, as I can't see them going after him at the money he wants.Youk will likely get an extension soon. There was talk of them pursuing Raffy Furcal.
thehornet
Footballguy
i say this not solely as a Red Sox fan. I would be very surprised if the Red Sox didnt end up with Teixeira. It is their only pressing need and they have money to spend.You don't consider signing Japanese phenom pitcher Junichi Tazawa a major move?Word on the street here in the Boston area is they will put on a full court press to woo Tex and try to trade Lowell (while eating some of his salary).It was reported the other day that the Sox had $40-$60M to spent in the offseason.I laughed when I heard this morning that they would be talking to Sabathia in the next few days, as I can't see them going after him at the money he wants.Youk will likely get an extension soon. There was talk of them pursuing Raffy Furcal.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I agree.I think they get Texeira, and go with Jed Lowrey at SS.I would like to get rid of Lugo, but no one will take him, imo.Sox are also talking to pitchers Brad Penny, CC Sabathia, Carl Pavano, and AJ Burnett.i say this not solely as a Red Sox fan. I would be very surprised if the Red Sox didnt end up with Teixeira. It is their only pressing need and they have money to spend.You don't consider signing Japanese phenom pitcher Junichi Tazawa a major move?Word on the street here in the Boston area is they will put on a full court press to woo Tex and try to trade Lowell (while eating some of his salary).It was reported the other day that the Sox had $40-$60M to spent in the offseason.I laughed when I heard this morning that they would be talking to Sabathia in the next few days, as I can't see them going after him at the money he wants.Youk will likely get an extension soon. There was talk of them pursuing Raffy Furcal.
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Insoxicated
11:54 p.m. — BoSox getting close with Teixeira?
The Red Sox are making progress in their quest to sign free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira, according to a major-league source.
"Headway was being made earlier today," one source said.
A rival general manager whose plans could be effected by the Red Sox addition of Teixeira also indicated that a deal was getting closer.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020...r-meetings-blog
The Red Sox are making progress in their quest to sign free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira, according to a major-league source.
"Headway was being made earlier today," one source said.
A rival general manager whose plans could be effected by the Red Sox addition of Teixeira also indicated that a deal was getting closer.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020...r-meetings-blog
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I saw an interview with Theo last night where he indicated the Sox have made at least 50 trade offers at the winter meetings and obviously none have been consumated. And that obviously does not count the free agent talks. He sounded a little frustrated with the lack of closing any deals but did say that there would be movement before Christmas.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Sox going with New Retro Uniforms and "Hanging Sox" logo.
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article....sp&c_id=bos
Sox looking seriously at John Smoltz.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp
Sox select Miguel Gonzalez, and Miguel Marquez in the Rule 5 draft
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article....sp&c_id=bos
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article....sp&c_id=bos
Sox looking seriously at John Smoltz.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp
Sox select Miguel Gonzalez, and Miguel Marquez in the Rule 5 draft
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article....sp&c_id=bos
cobalt_27
Footballguy
These really suck.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
As a bitter and jealous Yankee fan, I will now light myself on fire. How this never became a serious priority for them...it's absolutely infuriating.Oh, but I guess we're going to be just fine with Nick ####### Swisher.
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Insoxicated
9:58pm: Red Sox owner John Henry said:
"We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor."
Wow. From favorites to out of the bidding.
9:16pm: Gordon Edes says Boston's eight-year offer is more than $160MM but less than the $184MM figure Lynch mentioned. In a newer article, Edes talked to a Red Sox exec who called the idea of a $25MM salary for Tex "ridiculous." This info gels with the Gammons/Olney suggestion of $22MM per year. Edes adds that it won't be a "take it or leave it" type of meeting.
Edes says the Angels haven't budged off their original offer, which is north of $160MM. The Nationals have been told by Boras that they'd have to pay extra.
8:38pm: The Red Sox "aren't close to getting a deal done" with Teixeira according to an updated report by Dan Roche of WBZTV.
8:34pm: When asked whether the Angels might improve their offer to Teixeira, Tony Reagins simply repeated that he had already made him a "fair offer."
"We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor."
Wow. From favorites to out of the bidding.
9:16pm: Gordon Edes says Boston's eight-year offer is more than $160MM but less than the $184MM figure Lynch mentioned. In a newer article, Edes talked to a Red Sox exec who called the idea of a $25MM salary for Tex "ridiculous." This info gels with the Gammons/Olney suggestion of $22MM per year. Edes adds that it won't be a "take it or leave it" type of meeting.
Edes says the Angels haven't budged off their original offer, which is north of $160MM. The Nationals have been told by Boras that they'd have to pay extra.
8:38pm: The Red Sox "aren't close to getting a deal done" with Teixeira according to an updated report by Dan Roche of WBZTV.
8:34pm: When asked whether the Angels might improve their offer to Teixeira, Tony Reagins simply repeated that he had already made him a "fair offer."
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Updated 10:01 PM EST, Thu, Dec 18, 2008
Scott Boras, the agent who represents the switch-hitter, traveled to Teixeira's Texas home today and is scheduled to meet tonight with Red Sox Owner John Henry, CEO Larry Lucchino and General Manager Theo Epstein, who have offered Teixeira an eight-year deal believed to be worth about $184 million.
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Scott Boras, the agent who represents the switch-hitter, traveled to Teixeira's Texas home today and is scheduled to meet tonight with Red Sox Owner John Henry, CEO Larry Lucchino and General Manager Theo Epstein, who have offered Teixeira an eight-year deal believed to be worth about $184 million.
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Confirmed, Sox are out.Looks like Lowell is the man this season.
I was really liking the fit of Teixeira in Boston.
Posted: December 18, 2008
Sporting News staff reports
There has been a surprising twist in the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes: The Boston Red Sox are bowing out.
The team's principal owner, John Henry, said in an e-mail to Boston media late Thursday night that the Sox won't be the top suitors, citing other, apparently better, offers on the table.
"We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor," Henry wrote in the e-mail, which was posted on The Boston Globe's website.
Henry, team president Larry Lucchino and general manager Theo Epstein met with Teixeira's agent, Scott Boras, in Texas earlier Thursday. Reports by Boston television stations and ESPN.com suggested a deal could be completed within hours. One station reported that the Red Sox were offering Teixeira an eight-year, $184 million deal. Yahoo! Sports reported that the contract offer was not that lucrative.
Teixeira has received offers from the Los Angeles Angels, Baltimore Orioles and Washington Nationals. The New York Yankees have been rumored to be interested, but they reportedly have yet to make an offer.
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Finless
Footballguy
Sickening but honestly I don't think the guy is worth $200 over 8...no way. Funny thing is, when you're up over $150M what's the difference? When baseball is your passion don't you want to play your career with a winner? When all is said and done you can always look back on a winning career and still have a heap of money. If he goes to Baltimore or the Nationals he'll regret it when he's 50 looking back.
He's good. He's not $200M good.
He's good. He's not $200M good.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Sean McAdam was on the Big Show yesterday, and he said that from he knows about Teixiera, he is thought of as the "ultimate Boras client" and "if he was offered 50 cents more to play in Baghdad, he would."
cobalt_27
Footballguy
If Tex doesn't sign with either the Sox or the Angels, he's an absolute fool.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
JZilla
Footballguy
You guys really are the Yankees now, you know that right?Confirmed, Sox are out.Looks like Lowell is the man this season.I was really liking the fit of Teixeira in Boston.
Capella
Footballguy
That's the humor of it all. "How DARE he doesn't sign with us!"You guys really are the Yankees now, you know that right?Confirmed, Sox are out.Looks like Lowell is the man this season.I was really liking the fit of Teixeira in Boston.
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