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Redskins WRs (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Portis 26
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
Kelly's been hurt all camp and (reportedly) is in danger of not making the team, I want to make a Miles Austin/Sid Rice/Sims Walker comparison here but the difference between this situation and other talented prospects with injury problems their first two seasons are that those guys had a lot of positive reports mixed in with the rash of health issues. Kelly hasn't.
Thomas is doing what he always does, he's not that good and it shows. A big play every now and again, but zero consistency. He's a backup.
The job is wide open for the #2 and it seems Anthony Armstrong is trying to take the job by the balls and not let one of the two highly drafted prospects get it by default.
Thomas is doing what he always does, he's not that good and it shows. A big play every now and again, but zero consistency. He's a backup.
The job is wide open for the #2 and it seems Anthony Armstrong is trying to take the job by the balls and not let one of the two highly drafted prospects get it by default.
Babu Bhatt2
Footballguy
Anthony Armstrong is going to be the #2 opposite Moss. He's a former arena league player and McNabb loves him. His skillset is similar to a young James Thrash: great hands, not so great athleticism, adequate speed.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Don't take this personally but that's not good. You did follow it up with less than desirable athleticism. Thrash had a WR coach once that said if we are down to Thrash on the depth chart we are in trouble.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Pretty sure that's the current state of Washington's WR corp.
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renesauz
IBL Representative
What I saw in the preseason games was more then this. Kid has excellant game speed (dunno about his timed speed, but he burned corners deep more then once), terrific hands, and adequate athleticsm. I was impressed enough that combined with his opportunity, I stashed him on severasl dynasty rosters.
Rotoworld) Devin Thomas was notably absent from Friday's preseason game against the Jets. Analysis: Coach Mike Shanahan said that keeping Thomas out was part of the gameplan, and that he'll get "a lot" of action next week when the team takes on the Cardinals. Thomas is currently listed as the team's WR3.
Was thinking yesterday's game was a chance for Galloway to show his stuff for the WR2 position and he looked average. One last shot to see if someone could supplant Devin. This is good and bad IMO. Devin should be able to show he can be better than Galloway next week, but its troubling that he still hasn't secured the WR2 position or could this be Shannigans? Or is it something else....
Was thinking yesterday's game was a chance for Galloway to show his stuff for the WR2 position and he looked average. One last shot to see if someone could supplant Devin. This is good and bad IMO. Devin should be able to show he can be better than Galloway next week, but its troubling that he still hasn't secured the WR2 position or could this be Shannigans? Or is it something else....
bulger2holt
Footballguy
This thread makes me even more confident that my decision to take Cooley as my flex was a great one, even though I reached one round. He is going to be a PPR monster.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I think his speed is more his primary attribute than anything. He looked good to me. I guess I'd question his route-running and discipline more than anything, but I think he can run and catch just fine.
I think the Skins WR's will play out with Moss leading in catches and yards, and I see Armstrong having a few D. Jackson-like long TD bombs. I really think that while clearly not on the DeSean Jackson level, he'll be closer to filling that role for the long passes than Moss. D. Thomas will have his plays here and there, but I really wouldn't rely on him. Kelly will be a non-factor, IF he makes the team. The guy just can't stay on the field.
So I'd say Moss will still have the most value, but Armstrong is a great late stash in deep leagues.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Here's some stuff that will maybe cast some light on a confusing situation...
...for those of you who frequent the Redskins Thread, you may or may not know that I'm fortunate to count among my close friends a former Redskins Coach under Spurrier, Gibbs and Zorn. Although he is no longer 'officially' with the Team, he works with them as a paid Consultant, and was one of the 'point men' retained from the Zorn Staff by Shanahan to help with the transition phase this Spring when Shanahan took over, before being ultimately displaced by Shanahan's guys. He still works with several of the Players on a daily basis, and as we work out at the same gym, we talk 'skins plenty when he brings it up, because I don't think it's appropriate to press him for info, out of respect...but once he starts the conversation, all bets are off. Over the last several Seasons, I've had the opportunity to hang out with several folks on both the Management and Team (Coaches and Players) sides of the Redskins both at formal and informal environments including homes, and restaurant dinners I've helped co-ordinate. I've posted some off-the-wall things at times, and most of the time, as strange as they might sound, they've been born out...just the other day we started discussing the WR, and this is what he told me, paraphrased:
1. This is the 1st time Santana Moss has been utilized properly since he joined the Redskins, it's working out very well, and we can see that in the preseason games - Moss' Short Zone quickness and agility are his two biggest assets, and his placement on the field and the patterns he's running are designed to allow him to create space right off the line of scrimmage so McNabb can him him right off his drop backs. While Moss is the closest thing the 'skins have to a legitimate NFL Caliber Starting WR, he's still not the complete package, due to his size, and the fact that his speed is 'short speed' - he's at his fastest right off the line, and doesn't get faster as he runs down the field, so he has to create space right off the line out of his breaks. SMoss will see a generous amount of targets as he'll likely be the WR who sees the highest percentage of Offensive snaps. Ultimately, though, they'd like to move him around, and play him in the slot out of a 3WR Base Offense, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Personally, I'm projecting 72 Receptions.
2. The thing is, with Moss having such a big role in the Offense, the WR playing across from him has to be complementary, and in this case, it means the most important quality that guy must possess is 'deep/long speed', and the best complimentary option on the Team for Moss, right now, is...Joey Galloway, who barring a HUGE change of plans, will be the opening day Starter across from SMoss. I know he's ancient (38), but it's not just because he's an established vet and the rest of the WR Corps leaves a lot to be desired that he's pretty much a lock for the other starting spot. Everyone at Redskins park has been overwhelmingly impressed with how much he's got left in the tank, and how prepared he is to excel every day in practice - maybe last year with the Patriots was an eye-opener for him, or maybe the Redskins' scheme just fits him better, or maybe he's just solid/better than anyone else at the things that the WR playing opposite Santana needs to be, in the eyes of Kyle Shanahan. Whatever it is, he Galloway IS the Redskins #2 WR now and going forward, unless there's a major change up, and will be on the field for the next highest percentage of offensive snaps. Galloway, not Moss will be on the other end of those DeSean Jackson 'esque' bombs.
SMoss and Galloway are probably best served being Drafted in Best Ball Formats, but Moss has the potential to put up WR2 #'s at a WR3 price, based on the results of recent pre-season games, and the current impression that the Redskins Offense might not be much to write home about.
3. The TE's both Cooley and Davis are going to receive a ton of work, and with everyone healthy, the Redskins are going to run a fairly high percentage of 2-TE Offense, almost enough to call it their base Offense. This gets Portis, SMoss, Galloway, Cooley and Davis on the field at the same time, which is the most unpredictable package the Redskins can throw at a Defense to prevent early diagnosis and jumping the snap, but McNabb and Cooley have really bonded right from the Spring, and Cooley is the Redskins pass catcher with the highest draft value - if what they have planned for him comes to fruition, Cooley will statistically finish well within the Top 12 TE's, I have him projected at #7. Where he's going in Drafts, that represents value, although probably not for long, as lately he appears to be moving up the board. Davis is a nice bench stash with long-term potential, and another good candidate for Best Ball Rosters, because he's going to have more than a few big plays, as Cooley has been running all the traditional TE routes while they've concentrated on having Davis attack the deep middle seam.
4. The next WR on the Redskins regular season depth chart is, hold on to your hats...Roydell Williams - he's the most 'developed' combination of size and speed on the Roster in the opinion of Mike and Kyle Shanahan, and he's earned their respect and trust throughout Training Camp, and they are very high on him. He's in line to see the most action behind Moss and Galloway, but considering how much action those two are going to get, along with Portis, Cooley and Davis in the passing game, he doesn't possess much value from a fantasy perspective unless an injury strikes, which it well might. Roydell is in line for this largely because of Kelly's health. In the absence of Kelly, when the 'skins go 3-wide, Williams will likely line up outside, with Moss going in motion.
5. Thomas and Kelly aren't Shanahan/Allen's 'guys', so he owes them nothing, and so far they haven't seen enough consistency out of Thomas to merit him seeing any move up the Depth Chart, and giving him the priviledge of any more snaps. Kyle's Offense requires cerebral WR, and Devin Thomas isn't really that guy. He never had the rep for being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and the 'inconsistent' label has really stuck, which is a shame, because he has tools. He might thrive elsewhere, where the scheme and his role might be simpler. Galloway was brought in to primarily compete with/replace Thomas, and he's pretty much done just that. I'm not going to go as far as to say that they've written Thomas off, but him not seeing snaps last night vs the Jets was by design. They really WANT to get something out of Malcolm Kelly, as he's easily the closest thing physically (barring his injury history) to a prototypical 'NFL #1 WR', the kind that Santana could play '1B' to, moving into the slot, with Galloway's deep speed on the opposite outside. This is the formation/personnel package they would most like to run the majority of plays out of, if everyone was healthy. They are absolutely babying him along in practices to try to get him to his healthiest for Opening Day, because when healthy, he really is special, and they know what they have in him. It's his absence that's forcing them to use so much 2TE. A healthy and productive Kelly would relegate Fred Davis to specific down and distance packages, not as a regular contributor like he'll be in Kelly's absence. If the Shanahan's were down on Kelly, the way they treat him in the media would be quite different, but they genuinely feel he's an asset they'd like to have, so they've adopted a very paternal, protective stance.
So, that's Moss, Galloway, Williams and Kelly. The reason every other WR is in camp, is due to Thomas' inconsistency, and Kelly's health. Devin Thomas is right on the cut line, and strong performances from the remaining WR's affect his chances daily. The Shanahans really like Anthony Armstrong, and he's the favorite to win the WR5 spot. Bobby Wade has experience value that the staff appreciates, especially in the absence of Kelly. Brandon Banks and Terrance Austin are competing against each other, not necessarily for a spot on the final 53, but for a spot on the practice squad, where both might wind up in the final #'s crunch. One of them might compete with Wade for that 6th spot, sans a healthy Kelly. Shay Hodge is just camp fluff.
Since Kelly's status/future is still up in the air, so is the decision to keep 5 vs 6 WR, but I gather the Top 5 are pretty much set in Shanahan's mind, despite the outward appearance that there's a competition going on.
SMoss, Galloway, RWilliams/Kelly, Kelly/RWilliams, Armstrong
Devin Thomas? We'll see. It's up to him, really, but so far he hasn't shown well.
Wade/Austin/Banks - 1 makes it, at most, with one or both of the youngsters winding up on the PS.
Do with it what you will, but that's the scoop as far as I know. I wouldn't (and I'm not going to) Draft anyone on the 'skins WR Corps except SMoss. Maybe a late Rounder on Kelly, in standard Leagues. Galloway and Davis in Best Ball. SMoss, along with Portis and Cooley represent value, IMO.
HTH
...for those of you who frequent the Redskins Thread, you may or may not know that I'm fortunate to count among my close friends a former Redskins Coach under Spurrier, Gibbs and Zorn. Although he is no longer 'officially' with the Team, he works with them as a paid Consultant, and was one of the 'point men' retained from the Zorn Staff by Shanahan to help with the transition phase this Spring when Shanahan took over, before being ultimately displaced by Shanahan's guys. He still works with several of the Players on a daily basis, and as we work out at the same gym, we talk 'skins plenty when he brings it up, because I don't think it's appropriate to press him for info, out of respect...but once he starts the conversation, all bets are off. Over the last several Seasons, I've had the opportunity to hang out with several folks on both the Management and Team (Coaches and Players) sides of the Redskins both at formal and informal environments including homes, and restaurant dinners I've helped co-ordinate. I've posted some off-the-wall things at times, and most of the time, as strange as they might sound, they've been born out...just the other day we started discussing the WR, and this is what he told me, paraphrased:
1. This is the 1st time Santana Moss has been utilized properly since he joined the Redskins, it's working out very well, and we can see that in the preseason games - Moss' Short Zone quickness and agility are his two biggest assets, and his placement on the field and the patterns he's running are designed to allow him to create space right off the line of scrimmage so McNabb can him him right off his drop backs. While Moss is the closest thing the 'skins have to a legitimate NFL Caliber Starting WR, he's still not the complete package, due to his size, and the fact that his speed is 'short speed' - he's at his fastest right off the line, and doesn't get faster as he runs down the field, so he has to create space right off the line out of his breaks. SMoss will see a generous amount of targets as he'll likely be the WR who sees the highest percentage of Offensive snaps. Ultimately, though, they'd like to move him around, and play him in the slot out of a 3WR Base Offense, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Personally, I'm projecting 72 Receptions.
2. The thing is, with Moss having such a big role in the Offense, the WR playing across from him has to be complementary, and in this case, it means the most important quality that guy must possess is 'deep/long speed', and the best complimentary option on the Team for Moss, right now, is...Joey Galloway, who barring a HUGE change of plans, will be the opening day Starter across from SMoss. I know he's ancient (38), but it's not just because he's an established vet and the rest of the WR Corps leaves a lot to be desired that he's pretty much a lock for the other starting spot. Everyone at Redskins park has been overwhelmingly impressed with how much he's got left in the tank, and how prepared he is to excel every day in practice - maybe last year with the Patriots was an eye-opener for him, or maybe the Redskins' scheme just fits him better, or maybe he's just solid/better than anyone else at the things that the WR playing opposite Santana needs to be, in the eyes of Kyle Shanahan. Whatever it is, he Galloway IS the Redskins #2 WR now and going forward, unless there's a major change up, and will be on the field for the next highest percentage of offensive snaps. Galloway, not Moss will be on the other end of those DeSean Jackson 'esque' bombs.
SMoss and Galloway are probably best served being Drafted in Best Ball Formats, but Moss has the potential to put up WR2 #'s at a WR3 price, based on the results of recent pre-season games, and the current impression that the Redskins Offense might not be much to write home about.
3. The TE's both Cooley and Davis are going to receive a ton of work, and with everyone healthy, the Redskins are going to run a fairly high percentage of 2-TE Offense, almost enough to call it their base Offense. This gets Portis, SMoss, Galloway, Cooley and Davis on the field at the same time, which is the most unpredictable package the Redskins can throw at a Defense to prevent early diagnosis and jumping the snap, but McNabb and Cooley have really bonded right from the Spring, and Cooley is the Redskins pass catcher with the highest draft value - if what they have planned for him comes to fruition, Cooley will statistically finish well within the Top 12 TE's, I have him projected at #7. Where he's going in Drafts, that represents value, although probably not for long, as lately he appears to be moving up the board. Davis is a nice bench stash with long-term potential, and another good candidate for Best Ball Rosters, because he's going to have more than a few big plays, as Cooley has been running all the traditional TE routes while they've concentrated on having Davis attack the deep middle seam.
4. The next WR on the Redskins regular season depth chart is, hold on to your hats...Roydell Williams - he's the most 'developed' combination of size and speed on the Roster in the opinion of Mike and Kyle Shanahan, and he's earned their respect and trust throughout Training Camp, and they are very high on him. He's in line to see the most action behind Moss and Galloway, but considering how much action those two are going to get, along with Portis, Cooley and Davis in the passing game, he doesn't possess much value from a fantasy perspective unless an injury strikes, which it well might. Roydell is in line for this largely because of Kelly's health. In the absence of Kelly, when the 'skins go 3-wide, Williams will likely line up outside, with Moss going in motion.
5. Thomas and Kelly aren't Shanahan/Allen's 'guys', so he owes them nothing, and so far they haven't seen enough consistency out of Thomas to merit him seeing any move up the Depth Chart, and giving him the priviledge of any more snaps. Kyle's Offense requires cerebral WR, and Devin Thomas isn't really that guy. He never had the rep for being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and the 'inconsistent' label has really stuck, which is a shame, because he has tools. He might thrive elsewhere, where the scheme and his role might be simpler. Galloway was brought in to primarily compete with/replace Thomas, and he's pretty much done just that. I'm not going to go as far as to say that they've written Thomas off, but him not seeing snaps last night vs the Jets was by design. They really WANT to get something out of Malcolm Kelly, as he's easily the closest thing physically (barring his injury history) to a prototypical 'NFL #1 WR', the kind that Santana could play '1B' to, moving into the slot, with Galloway's deep speed on the opposite outside. This is the formation/personnel package they would most like to run the majority of plays out of, if everyone was healthy. They are absolutely babying him along in practices to try to get him to his healthiest for Opening Day, because when healthy, he really is special, and they know what they have in him. It's his absence that's forcing them to use so much 2TE. A healthy and productive Kelly would relegate Fred Davis to specific down and distance packages, not as a regular contributor like he'll be in Kelly's absence. If the Shanahan's were down on Kelly, the way they treat him in the media would be quite different, but they genuinely feel he's an asset they'd like to have, so they've adopted a very paternal, protective stance.
So, that's Moss, Galloway, Williams and Kelly. The reason every other WR is in camp, is due to Thomas' inconsistency, and Kelly's health. Devin Thomas is right on the cut line, and strong performances from the remaining WR's affect his chances daily. The Shanahans really like Anthony Armstrong, and he's the favorite to win the WR5 spot. Bobby Wade has experience value that the staff appreciates, especially in the absence of Kelly. Brandon Banks and Terrance Austin are competing against each other, not necessarily for a spot on the final 53, but for a spot on the practice squad, where both might wind up in the final #'s crunch. One of them might compete with Wade for that 6th spot, sans a healthy Kelly. Shay Hodge is just camp fluff.
Since Kelly's status/future is still up in the air, so is the decision to keep 5 vs 6 WR, but I gather the Top 5 are pretty much set in Shanahan's mind, despite the outward appearance that there's a competition going on.
SMoss, Galloway, RWilliams/Kelly, Kelly/RWilliams, Armstrong
Devin Thomas? We'll see. It's up to him, really, but so far he hasn't shown well.
Wade/Austin/Banks - 1 makes it, at most, with one or both of the youngsters winding up on the PS.
Do with it what you will, but that's the scoop as far as I know. I wouldn't (and I'm not going to) Draft anyone on the 'skins WR Corps except SMoss. Maybe a late Rounder on Kelly, in standard Leagues. Galloway and Davis in Best Ball. SMoss, along with Portis and Cooley represent value, IMO.
HTH
Babu Bhatt2
Footballguy
very cool, thanks
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Thanks for taking the time Nittany to type that up, great stuff!
shader
Footballguy
Still can't believe Vincent Jackson isn't a Redskin. Jackson with Shanahan is a match made in heaven. The owner will trade draft picks and spend money in a heartbeat...
Every day I wake up and expect to see it in the headlines.
I don't think Santana Moss and Joey Galloway are going to put fear in anyone's hearts, and the Skins are destined for a fight for 3rd with Philly in the East.
Every day I wake up and expect to see it in the headlines.
I don't think Santana Moss and Joey Galloway are going to put fear in anyone's hearts, and the Skins are destined for a fight for 3rd with Philly in the East.
dgreen
Footballguy
Thanks for the info, but I'm
by this part. In 2005, he had 84-1483-9. They used him a lot on WR screens that year and was utilized properly, IMO.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
That's what I was thinking as well. If that stat-line wasn't proper use I don't know what is. I do think Moss has been used poorly in recent years though. He could be a much better receiver than the Redskins have allowed him to be. He's not as one-dimensional as a lot of folks imply.Also, while I'm not inclined to disagree that much, because this is just a "feel" I have, being local to DC and hearing a lot of press/interviews with Shanny, I haven't really heard much in the way of a paternal approach to Kelly. Most of what I've heard seems to be pretty down on him. Like I said though, that's just trying to read between the lines, which is very difficult to do.If they haven't written him off yet, I have. Even when "healthy" he doesn't really seem to do all that much that is awe-inspiring.Thanks for the info, but I'mby this part. In 2005, he had 84-1483-9. They used him a lot on WR screens that year and was utilized properly, IMO.
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Das Boot
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Does this mean that Portis will get more receptions?
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
This seems to corroborate what Nittany Lion was saying. Why not work out an injury settlement and part with Kelly if he was so disappointing to Shanny?fatness said:
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dgreen
Footballguy
What is "this"? Kelly going to the IR?
So, they have Moss, who may have a suspension looming for HGH, Galloway, who couldn't thrive with Tom Brady throwing him the ball, Kelly, on IR, and Thomas, who may not make the team? Anyone else? Roydell Williams (who's been out of football?), Bobby Wade 
I guess I'd put my money on Armstrong to emerge by about mid-season...
Nice receiving core there...
I guess I'd put my money on Armstrong to emerge by about mid-season...Nice receiving core there...
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