Repeatedly bad moves by a franchise (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

What are some bad moves that a franchise has made at least twice?(please not just one bad pick or bad trade or bad cut)

For example, I think the Bengals releasing a franchise tackle last year and then again this year is a bad move.

I'll wait to see how Keith does in Dallas but, -to give another example for this thread- going from one old MLB to another old MLB doesn't seem like the solution to me.

ETA see if you can keep it a repeated position, like Tackle and then Tackle or RB and then RB etc. Thank you

 

[tjford]

Lots of teams have made multiple poor decisions.

The Falcons got rid of Brett Favre, let Deion Sanders go and traded, in effect, LaDainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees for Mike Vick. Do I think that makes them a poor team? Not really.

 

[RUSF18]

Denver.

 

[Bri]

Lots of teams have made multiple poor decisions.The Falcons got rid of Brett Favre, let Deion Sanders go and traded, in effect, LaDainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees for Mike Vick. Do I think that makes them a poor team? Not really.

Well a few things here if you don't mind.Reading this I thought there's a slew of poor QB decisions by teams, maybe we need to leave them out?The other, possibly I should have been more specific. Sorry about that. I'm looking for same positional mistake over and over like keep drafting RB yet they don't pan out.keep cutting Ts etc.thank you for the reply though. I think there's a number of them out there.In contrast, positive, the Giants rock drafting DEs don't they? Tuck(DE when drafted IIRC) Osi and Kiwi. I'm looking for similar as mistakes or poor decisions.

 

[Wadsworth]

A list of the WR the Jaguars have drafted:

Curtis Marsh

Chris Doering

Reggie Barlow

Alvis Whitted

Emanuel Smith

R. Jay Soward

Richmond Flowers

Kendal Newson

Ernest Wilford

Reggie Williams

Matt Jones

Chad Owens

Mike Walker

John Broussard

This year:

Mike Thomas

Jarett Dillard

Tiquan Underwood

I think that qualifies.

 

[Bri]

thanks wadsworth

 

[CalBear]

Fairly typical pattern, with recent examples in San Francisco and Detroit:

1) Extremely bad team hires new coach

2) New coach uses high draft pick on overrated "franchise QB"

3) Team still sucks

4) New coach uses more high draft picks on overrated receivers "to give franchise QB some weapons"

5) Team still sucks

6) Team backs QB, saying he's "the future of this franchise"

7) QB controversy ensues

8) Team still sucks

9) Coach gets fired

10) Go to 1

 

[Bri]

Fairly typical pattern, with recent examples in San Francisco and Detroit:1) Extremely bad team hires new coach2) New coach uses high draft pick on overrated "franchise QB"3) Team still sucks4) New coach uses more high draft picks on overrated receivers "to give franchise QB some weapons"5) Team still sucks6) Team backs QB, saying he's "the future of this franchise"7) QB controversy ensues8) Team still sucks9) Coach gets fired10) Go to 1

Interesting. I'd like to dig more into that.Cleveland could fit here too right? Maybe Flacco is OK but Baltimore seems to have both broken a similar pattern and done well despite the steps above. Redman? Boller? Eh well they didn't change head coaches.....there might be a blueprint to fail theory here.

 

[FUBAR]

Bengals and their character risks.

 

[FUBAR]

Fairly typical pattern, with recent examples in San Francisco and Detroit:

1) Extremely bad team hires new coach

2) New coach uses high draft pick on overrated "franchise QB"

3) Team still sucks

4) New coach uses more high draft picks on overrated receivers "to give franchise QB some weapons"

5) Team still sucks

6) Team backs QB, saying he's "the future of this franchise"

7) QB controversy ensues

8) Team still sucks

9) Coach gets fired

10) Go to 1

Interesting. I'd like to dig more into that.Cleveland could fit here too right?

Maybe Flacco is OK but Baltimore seems to have both broken a similar pattern and done well despite the steps above. Redman? Boller? Eh well they didn't change head coaches.....there might be a blueprint to fail theory here.

Baltimore has drafted one WR in the first round in the last 9 years. 2 in the history of their franchise. They've drafted a grand total of 13 O skill position in the first 3 rounds.

So no, they don't fit this pattern.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The Dolphins traded a 2nd round pick for AJ Feely...then another one for Daunte Culpepper (instead of signing Drew Brees as a free agent)...then spent a 2nd round pick on John Beck.

Those are all confirmed complete and total wastes of 2nd round picks - all on the same position.

Jury is still out on the 2nd rounders spent more recently on Chad Henne and Pat White. Any way you slice it though, that is 5 2nd round picks spent on QBs in 8 (?) years. So far, with not a single positive result.

 

[sho nuff]

Tennessee has not had a ton of luck with WRs other than Derrick Mason.

Their FA signings over the years have been Yancey Thigpen, Carl Pickens, and David Givens. Gage has worked out though and we will see what Nate Washington will bring.

But the draft? Dyson was ok as was Drew Bennett...and a bunch of yuck outside of that.

 

[runner06]

A list of the WR the Jaguars have drafted:Curtis MarshChris DoeringReggie BarlowAlvis WhittedEmanuel SmithR. Jay SowardRichmond FlowersKendal NewsonErnest WilfordReggie WilliamsMatt JonesChad OwensMike WalkerJohn BroussardThis year:Mike ThomasJarett DillardTiquan UnderwoodI think that qualifies.

They did hit on Jimmy Smith, who had 0 receptions in 3 seasons with the Dallas Cowboys before being signed by the Jaguars.

 

[ultimatefootballnetwork]

If you look at what Brad Childress has done to the QB position in Minnesota, you find a disaster...

Called Culpepper a franchise QB, then released him before playing 1 game

Went into his 1st season with Brad Johnson as the unquestioned starter even though it was obvious he was out of gas.

Gave Mike McMahon a 2 year, $2M contract w/ $400K signing bonus (after working with McMahon in Philly) and he was so bad he was cut in preseason

Traded CJ Moseley and a 6th round pick for Brooks Bollinger. Then gave Bollinger a 2 year, $2.2M contract extension even though Bollingers contract wasnt up.

Bollinger, 1 month after getting his contract extension, was so bad in preseason that the Vikings needed to trade a 6th round pick for Kelly Holcomb, right before the regular season

Carrying both Bollinger and Holcomb on the roster, Childress tried to sneak rookie Tyler Thigpen through waivers, he was claimed by KC

And Childress traded 2 3rd round picks to move up in the 2nd round to take Tarvaris Jackson

Traded a 4th round pick for Sage Rosenfels and gave him a 2 year, $9M contract extension

To sum up, in the 4 year Childress era, the Vikings have spent all kinds of picks and money on QBs....

1 2nd round pick (Tarvaris Jackson)

2 3rd round picks

1 4th round pick

2 6th round picks

A rotation quality, young DT

Lost Thigpen in a roster mistake

And $13.5M in contract extensions for McMahon, Bollinger and Childress who have combined for 1 TD pass for the Vikings (and if Favre plays that number wont change)

 

[Donnybrook]

If you look at what Brad Childress has done to the QB position in Minnesota, you find a disaster...

Called Culpepper a franchise QB, then released him before playing 1 game

Went into his 1st season with Brad Johnson as the unquestioned starter even though it was obvious he was out of gas.

Gave Mike McMahon a 2 year, $2M contract w/ $400K signing bonus (after working with McMahon in Philly) and he was so bad he was cut in preseason

Traded CJ Moseley and a 6th round pick for Brooks Bollinger. Then gave Bollinger a 2 year, $2.2M contract extension even though Bollingers contract wasnt up.

Bollinger, 1 month after getting his contract extension, was so bad in preseason that the Vikings needed to trade a 6th round pick for Kelly Holcomb, right before the regular season

Carrying both Bollinger and Holcomb on the roster, Childress tried to sneak rookie Tyler Thigpen through waivers, he was claimed by KC

And Childress traded 2 3rd round picks to move up in the 2nd round to take Tarvaris Jackson

Traded a 4th round pick for Sage Rosenfels and gave him a 2 year, $9M contract extension

To sum up, in the 4 year Childress era, the Vikings have spent all kinds of picks and money on QBs....

1 2nd round pick (Tarvaris Jackson)

2 3rd round picks

1 4th round pick

2 6th round picks

A rotation quality, young DT

Lost Thigpen in a roster mistake

And $13.5M in contract extensions for McMahon, Bollinger and Childress who have combined for 1 TD pass for the Vikings (and if Favre plays that number wont change)

As noted above, Culpepper fetched a 2nd round pick from the Dolphins. But I do agree that for a former QB coach his record in the QB scouting department is not good. He did not realize that Brad Johnson did not have anything left in the tank and now we are supposed to believe him when he says Favre does. I still think Favre will be his biggest mistake and hopefully it will be his undoing. His rent a veteran QB strategy has grown tiresome.  

 

[Sinrman]

Just follow my Lions over the years and you will see bad decision after bad decision, after bad decision. Unless things get turned around in the next few years, I could even see Calvin Johnson jumping ship.

 

[Donnybrook]

Mike Tannenbaum better hope Sanchez turns out to be the real deal because he has also used a lot of picks on QBs.  

1st , 2nd and 3 players for Mark Sanchez 

2nd for Kellen Clemons 

3rd for Favre and a 7th from GB

Cut Chad Pennington

 

[Bri]

A rotation quality, young DTLost Thigpen in a roster mistake

can you clarify these please

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

Oakland taking physical specimens over football players every damn draft.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

If the Bengals are dumb for spending an average amount of money of guys with character issues, what does this say about the Cowboys?

Honorable mention, unrelated: Detroit, Cleveland.

Up and coming train wreck: Buffalo (keeping Jauron, grabbing TO, etc.) -> I'll be rooting for them to get better, but would be panicking as a Bills fan...

 

[KenM746003]

The Bears selecting offensive players in the first round of the draft (this is for all of the people who think the bears gave up too much for Cutler):

2009

No first round pick.

2008

1 - Chris Williams, T Vanderbilt

2007

1 - Greg Olsen, TE Miami (FL)

2006

No first round pick

2005

1 - Cedric Benson RB Texas

2004

No offensive player taken in first.

2003

1 - Rex Grossman QB Florida

2002

1- Marc Colombo T Boston College

2001

1 - David Terrell WR Michigan

2000

No offensive player taken in first.

1999

1 - Cade McNown QB UCLA

1998

1 - Curtis Enis RB Penn State

1997

No first round pick.

1996

No offensive player taken in first.

1995

1 - Rashaan Salaam RB Colorado

1994

No offensive player taken in first.

1993

1 - Curtis Conway WR USC (decent)

1992

No offensive player taken in first.

1991

1 - Stan Thomas T Texas

1990

No offensive player taken in first.

1989

No offensive player taken in first.

1988

1 - Brad Muster RB Stanford

1 - Wendell Davis WR Louisiana State

This is over TWENTY years!!

Maybe Olsen and Williams will pan out, but this list is pretty pathetic. Who even had a decent career from these guys? Conway? Colombo is playing with Dallas now, so maybe him as well. But a huge number of busts on this list.

 

[runner06]

If you look at what Brad Childress has done to the QB position in Minnesota, you find a disaster...

Called Culpepper a franchise QB, then released him before playing 1 game

Went into his 1st season with Brad Johnson as the unquestioned starter even though it was obvious he was out of gas.

Gave Mike McMahon a 2 year, $2M contract w/ $400K signing bonus (after working with McMahon in Philly) and he was so bad he was cut in preseason

Traded CJ Moseley and a 6th round pick for Brooks Bollinger. Then gave Bollinger a 2 year, $2.2M contract extension even though Bollingers contract wasnt up.

Bollinger, 1 month after getting his contract extension, was so bad in preseason that the Vikings needed to trade a 6th round pick for Kelly Holcomb, right before the regular season

Carrying both Bollinger and Holcomb on the roster, Childress tried to sneak rookie Tyler Thigpen through waivers, he was claimed by KC

And Childress traded 2 3rd round picks to move up in the 2nd round to take Tarvaris Jackson

Traded a 4th round pick for Sage Rosenfels and gave him a 2 year, $9M contract extension

To sum up, in the 4 year Childress era, the Vikings have spent all kinds of picks and money on QBs....

1 2nd round pick (Tarvaris Jackson)

2 3rd round picks

1 4th round pick

2 6th round picks

A rotation quality, young DT

Lost Thigpen in a roster mistake

And $13.5M in contract extensions for McMahon, Bollinger and Childress who have combined for 1 TD pass for the Vikings (and if Favre plays that number wont change)

They didn't really lose him in a roster "mistake". The Vikings decided he wasn't good enough to make their 53 man roster so they cut him. They were planning on resigning him to the practice squad if he wasn't picked up by another team but that doesn't make it a roster "mistake". Josh Childress being upset that he was picked up doesn't make it a "mistake" either. They took a calculated risk and got burned. That kind of things happens quite a bit in the NFL.

 

[Sweet Love]

My Jets have just been plain awful when it comes to drafting TEs.

2002 - 3rd round - Chris Baker - 1300 yards and 12 TDs - literally, best of the bunch considering he was a 3rd rounder

2000 - 1st round - Anthony Becht - 5 years on team, 1100 yards and 12 TDs

1995 - 1st round - Kyle Brady - 4 years on team - 900+ yards and 10 TDs

1992 - 1st round - Johnny Mitchell - 4 years on team - 2100 yards and 16 TDs

What is amazing is that you can see the progression throughout the 90s...draft Mitchell, decide he is a bust and spend another 1st rounder on Brady...wait, he isn't working out either, lets spend another 1st rounder on Becht. 3 1st round picks spent over 9 drafts on bust TEs...amazing.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

The Raiders have averaged like 4 wins a season since 2003 and they don't have one good player to show for it. There's still hope for McFadden and less for Russell but it looks like they'll be busts too.

 

[ultimatefootballnetwork]

If you look at what Brad Childress has done to the QB position in Minnesota, you find a disaster...

Called Culpepper a franchise QB, then released him before playing 1 game

Went into his 1st season with Brad Johnson as the unquestioned starter even though it was obvious he was out of gas.

Gave Mike McMahon a 2 year, $2M contract w/ $400K signing bonus (after working with McMahon in Philly) and he was so bad he was cut in preseason

Traded CJ Moseley and a 6th round pick for Brooks Bollinger. Then gave Bollinger a 2 year, $2.2M contract extension even though Bollingers contract wasnt up.

Bollinger, 1 month after getting his contract extension, was so bad in preseason that the Vikings needed to trade a 6th round pick for Kelly Holcomb, right before the regular season

Carrying both Bollinger and Holcomb on the roster, Childress tried to sneak rookie Tyler Thigpen through waivers, he was claimed by KC

And Childress traded 2 3rd round picks to move up in the 2nd round to take Tarvaris Jackson

Traded a 4th round pick for Sage Rosenfels and gave him a 2 year, $9M contract extension

To sum up, in the 4 year Childress era, the Vikings have spent all kinds of picks and money on QBs....

1 2nd round pick (Tarvaris Jackson)

2 3rd round picks

1 4th round pick

2 6th round picks

A rotation quality, young DT

Lost Thigpen in a roster mistake

And $13.5M in contract extensions for McMahon, Bollinger and Childress who have combined for 1 TD pass for the Vikings (and if Favre plays that number wont change)

They didn't really lose him in a roster "mistake". The Vikings decided he wasn't good enough to make their 53 man roster so they cut him. They were planning on resigning him to the practice squad if he wasn't picked up by another team but that doesn't make it a roster "mistake". Josh Childress being upset that he was picked up doesn't make it a "mistake" either. They took a calculated risk and got burned. That kind of things happens quite a bit in the NFL.

Perhaps mistake was the wrong word. However, Childress telegraphed that he was putting Thigpen on waivers and wanted to resign him. Childress went so far as to say he would be *sick* if Thigpen was claimed before doing it....Exposing a promising QB prospect to waivers for the sake of keeping Brooks Bollinger as the 3rd stringer on the roster is a mistake, or a bad move, or however you want to call it.

 

[sgtrobo]

The Raiders have averaged like 4 wins a season since 2003 and they don't have one good player to show for it. There's still hope for McFadden and less for Russell but it looks like they'll be busts too.

Nnamdi and Schilens. Howard and Morrison are solid as well.

 

[Northbound Train]

The Lions and their drafts this decade, most notably the WR debacle for 4 years.

Thread ovahhhhhhhhh ...what do I win

 

[Da Guru]

The Lions and their drafts this decade, most notably the WR debacle for 4 years.Thread ovahhhhhhhhh ...what do I win

The LionsWay too many to mention. A comedy of errors.

 

[Couch Potato]

I've always thought that if a franchise underachieved using certain minimum standards of competency for long enough, a sale to new ownership should be required. If I ran a McDonald's or Subway franchise into the ground and hurt the parent company year after year, there are provisions for them to yank it from me. Why not in pro sports?

We know the Raiders will never be consistently competitive again until Al Davis dies. We know Cincy and Detroit's good years will be few and far between as long as ownership remains in place. It's not fair to the fans of the cities to have ownership who continues to be horrible. Mike Brown a GM? Pathetic. Fire yourself Mike. And how long was Millen in charge before the Ford son finally had enough and told daddy to wake up?

There should be some minimum standard over 10 years, something very reachable with any reasonable degree of competency, and if it isn't met, sorry pal, sell your team to someone who cares enough about the fans to do the right things. A rule like this might just cause these idiot owners like Al Davis and Mike Brown to get out of the way and let competent people do their jobs before they lose their franchises.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

A list of the WR the Jaguars have drafted:Curtis MarshChris DoeringReggie BarlowAlvis WhittedEmanuel SmithR. Jay SowardRichmond FlowersKendal NewsonErnest WilfordReggie WilliamsMatt JonesChad OwensMike WalkerJohn BroussardThis year:Mike ThomasJarett DillardTiquan UnderwoodI think that qualifies.

I knew it was bad, but didn't want to look into it. OUCH.

 

[Bri]

A list of the WR the Jaguars have drafted:Curtis MarshChris DoeringReggie BarlowAlvis WhittedEmanuel SmithR. Jay SowardRichmond FlowersKendal NewsonErnest WilfordReggie WilliamsMatt JonesChad OwensMike WalkerJohn Broussard

wasn't doering in the mid 90s? barlow seems like a long time ago.Probably need to think about guys like Broussard. Expectations were low, he made the team(is that positive?) but didn't do too much(Is that negative?). So is it a bad pick or a "wash" with him?