Report: Colts OC Tom Moore close to retiring (1 Viewer)

[Hoss_Cartwright]

NFL Headlines

Executive director of the NFL Coaches Assn. Larry Kennan says Colts offensive coordinator Tom Moore is strongly considering retirement.

Indianapolis already lost OL coach Howard Mudd over dissatisfaction with the league's revised pension plan for coaches. Kennan says Moore, too, is fed up and "just about" to retire. NFL coaches probably got themselves into this situation, though. They never organized a union and lack protection. May. 6 - 7:40 pm et

Source: ESPN.com

hell, Manning is the OC anyway

 

[Adebisi]

Yeah, who cares? As long as the Colts have Manning, they don't need this guy anyway.

 

[Jason Wood]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

 

[Adebisi]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

I was being a little sarcastic when I said that. Only a little sarcastic though.Sure, there might be a slight decline in Manning's game if Moore leaves. But he's still one of the top two QBs in the league. If Brady can transition from Weis to McDaniels, then Manning can transition from Moore to whomever. And this comes from a Patriots fan.

They may take a slight step down as a result of losing Dungy and Moore so close together, but the Colts will be fine. Does anyone really think the Titans are going to win that division again this year?

 

[travdogg]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

Can't say I agree with that at all. Who's to say a little house cleaning in the coaching ranks isn't exactly what they needed? Maybe the Dungy etc. mantra had grown a bit tired.Even if they lose Dungy, Moore and Mudd, I think its very over reactionary to assume the Colts won't be a contender. Of course, many people have different ideas of a contender. I'm personally of the belief(and its kind of been backed up recently) that any team that makes the playoffs is a contender, and I have a very tough time seeing Indy missing the playoffs and could easily see them winning the AFC South.

I do believe from a fantasy perspective, it could hurt the development of younger players(like Brown and Collie) but I don't see Moore leaving as something that is going to effect Manning or Wayne or Clark who have been playing together for years. I think its possible it could increase the production of Wayne and Clark because of their familiarity with the system and with Manning.

Of course that all remains to be seen, as its no lock that Moore does choose to leave.

 

[travdogg]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

I was being a little sarcastic when I said that. Only a little sarcastic though.Sure, there might be a slight decline in Manning's game if Moore leaves. But he's still one of the top two QBs in the league. If Brady can transition from Weis to McDaniels, then Manning can transition from Moore to whomever. And this comes from a Patriots fan.

They may take a slight step down as a result of losing Dungy and Moore so close together, but the Colts will be fine. Does anyone really think the Titans are going to win that division again this year?

And Mudd.And Harrison.

Addition by subtraction. There's a good reason why Marvin hasn't found a home yet.

 

[Truman]

Moore retires, collects his payment, comes out of retirement 3 days later and is hired for the same money as a 'special consultant' for the Colts. Book it.

edit: Apparently the pension plan has made this illegal.

 

[bcr8f]

Coaches need to get together and fix this before even more bail.

 

[Bri]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

Can't say I agree with that at all. Who's to say a little house cleaning in the coaching ranks isn't exactly what they needed? Maybe the Dungy etc. mantra had grown a bit tired.Even if they lose Dungy, Moore and Mudd, I think its very over reactionary to assume the Colts won't be a contender. Of course, many people have different ideas of a contender. I'm personally of the belief(and its kind of been backed up recently) that any team that makes the playoffs is a contender, and I have a very tough time seeing Indy missing the playoffs and could easily see them winning the AFC South.

I do believe from a fantasy perspective, it could hurt the development of younger players(like Brown and Collie) but I don't see Moore leaving as something that is going to effect Manning or Wayne or Clark who have been playing together for years. I think its possible it could increase the production of Wayne and Clark because of their familiarity with the system and with Manning.

Of course that all remains to be seen, as its no lock that Moore does choose to leave.

As I recall(haven't checked at PFR) The Lions were a top offense when Moore was OC and they had Barry. They were not when he left.Moore is one of the best OC there is. Manning's ability to completely understand Moore's offense backward and forward is quite evident when he's at the LOS changing plays, pointing out adjustments or assignments to his teammates. I don't think that happens (to that degree) with a new OC that has a new playbook.

A bad coach can quickly end success. The turnover of the Colts coaching staff leaves there a strong possibility that at least one replacement won't be "top notch".

Many folks rrreally need to check out Moore's history to see just how good he is/was.

 

[djcolts]

The Colts have taken some hits in coaching experience (though, I think their change in Special Teams and D Coordinators are net positives), but there's no question in my mind that the 2009 Colts are more talented overall than the 2008 Colts. So, I think it is a wash overall. It is disappointing that the pension situation is causing this problem.

 

[Bri]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

I was being a little sarcastic when I said that. Only a little sarcastic though.Sure, there might be a slight decline in Manning's game if Moore leaves. But he's still one of the top two QBs in the league. If Brady can transition from Weis to McDaniels, then Manning can transition from Moore to whomever. And this comes from a Patriots fan.

They may take a slight step down as a result of losing Dungy and Moore so close together, but the Colts will be fine. Does anyone really think the Titans are going to win that division again this year?

I always felt like McDaniels had more help than most OC and firmly don't think he's HC material yet.

 

[djcolts]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

Can't say I agree with that at all. Who's to say a little house cleaning in the coaching ranks isn't exactly what they needed? Maybe the Dungy etc. mantra had grown a bit tired.Even if they lose Dungy, Moore and Mudd, I think its very over reactionary to assume the Colts won't be a contender. Of course, many people have different ideas of a contender. I'm personally of the belief(and its kind of been backed up recently) that any team that makes the playoffs is a contender, and I have a very tough time seeing Indy missing the playoffs and could easily see them winning the AFC South.

I do believe from a fantasy perspective, it could hurt the development of younger players(like Brown and Collie) but I don't see Moore leaving as something that is going to effect Manning or Wayne or Clark who have been playing together for years. I think its possible it could increase the production of Wayne and Clark because of their familiarity with the system and with Manning.

Of course that all remains to be seen, as its no lock that Moore does choose to leave.

As I recall(haven't checked at PFR) The Lions were a top offense when Moore was OC and they had Barry. They were not when he left.Moore is one of the best OC there is. Manning's ability to completely understand Moore's offense backward and forward is quite evident when he's at the LOS changing plays, pointing out adjustments or assignments to his teammates. I don't think that happens (to that degree) with a new OC that has a new playbook.

A bad coach can quickly end success. The turnover of the Colts coaching staff leaves there a strong possibility that at least one replacement won't be "top notch".

Many folks rrreally need to check out Moore's history to see just how good he is/was.

The new OC will not have a whole new playbook - he'll be current WR and Associate head coach Clyde Christensen.

 

[Bri]

It is disappointing that the pension situation is causing this problem.

I agree.These prominent coaches make plenty even if the retirement program is NG are they really not setup well for retirement?

 

[djcolts]

It is disappointing that the pension situation is causing this problem.

I agree.These prominent coaches make plenty even if the retirement program is NG are they really not setup well for retirement?

I don't really know, but it sounded like in Mudd's case that it really makes a big difference to have that pension, so it probably just made economic sense for him to retire.

 

[Bri]

The new OC will not have a whole new playbook - he'll be current WR and Associate head coach Clyde Christensen.

Giants new DC's first thing he did was to lessen the # of "plays" for the D in their book.Moore knowing when/how to push the buttons of the offense can't be underestimated either.

Look I don't think the Colts are going to stink. I do think people will notice Moore isn't around but it'll be moreso those watching on TV than in a stat column.

With a full offseason next year, we'll see what Clyde does I suppose.

 

[djcolts]

The new OC will not have a whole new playbook - he'll be current WR and Associate head coach Clyde Christensen.

Giants new DC's first thing he did was to lessen the # of "plays" for the D in their book.Moore knowing when/how to push the buttons of the offense can't be underestimated either.

Look I don't think the Colts are going to stink. I do think people will notice Moore isn't around but it'll be moreso those watching on TV than in a stat column.

With a full offseason next year, we'll see what Clyde does I suppose.

He's been with the Colts for 8 years - I think he'd know the playbook inside and out. There will be differences, and I'm not saying there won't be a dropoff - but I think Mudd's loss will be more of a problem than Moore's. Mudd takes lower and undrafted players and generally puts them in positions to succeed. That is why I started the Mudd topic yesterday - I think he's a loss to keep a major eye on.Clearly, losing both in the same offseason, with a new head coach, causes concern. The only good thing is that this happens before mini camp, so there is time to adjust (and it is clear the Colts had plans to replace both sooner - but they were hoping it would be in 2010, not 2009).

 

[Adebisi]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

I was being a little sarcastic when I said that. Only a little sarcastic though.Sure, there might be a slight decline in Manning's game if Moore leaves. But he's still one of the top two QBs in the league. If Brady can transition from Weis to McDaniels, then Manning can transition from Moore to whomever. And this comes from a Patriots fan.

They may take a slight step down as a result of losing Dungy and Moore so close together, but the Colts will be fine. Does anyone really think the Titans are going to win that division again this year?

I always felt like McDaniels had more help than most OC and firmly don't think he's HC material yet.

May I ask what you're basing this on?I don't think he's HC material yet either - I said as much before Denver even hired him - but I'm wondering why you feel that he had more help than most OC. Is it simply because he was working with Belichick and Brady? If that's the case, can't we assume the same about Weis and Moore?

 

[T Bell]

While I understand the view that Manning is such a student of the game, and so established now that he can succeed without Moore, I think the early responses here don't give Moore enough credit. Let's remember that Moore was there BEFORE Dungy and is the only OC Manning has ever known. You can't underestimate the value of that relationship; having that person there who you implicitly trust and can give you guidance about the finer points of the game plan. If Moore really does follow through and retire, I think it's perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Colts being a true contender in 2009.

I was thinking along the same lines, JW. While it's certainly true that Manning is a rare case that operates with incredible autonomy in running that offense, I don't believe that that's the same thing as Moore not having any value to him or the Colts. As I understand it, Moore calls in three plays, usually two passing and one rushing play, and Manning then selects the play in the huddle (and can of course audible away from it too). That speaks not only to Manning's independence however, but it also suggests that Moore and Manning work closely together during the week to prepare a game plan for the offense and to ensure that they're on the same page. Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

 

[Adebisi]

Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

I'm not suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body (I think he's one of the best OCs in the league), but I am suggesting that Manning will be just fine without him.

 

[T Bell]

Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

I'm not suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body (I think he's one of the best OCs in the league), but I am suggesting that Manning will be just fine without him.

Ignoring for the moment the ambiguity in the "just fine" comment, why?

 

[Adebisi]

Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

I'm not suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body (I think he's one of the best OCs in the league), but I am suggesting that Manning will be just fine without him.

Ignoring for the moment the ambiguity in the "just fine" comment, why?

Because Peyton Manning is one of the top 2 QBs in the league and one of the best and most intelligent QBs of all time. If the Colts replace Moore with even just a "capable" OC, I am confident that Manning knows NFL offenses & defenses well enough at this point in his career that he will be able to put together effective game plans with his new OC on a week-to-week basis. Manning, for the most part, knows what works and what doesn't. And Polian is still going to get him effective teammates to work with.And as an aside, any available OC would kill for the chance to work with Manning, so the Colts would probably more or less have their pick of anyone who is available.

 

[T Bell]

Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

I'm not suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body (I think he's one of the best OCs in the league), but I am suggesting that Manning will be just fine without him.

Ignoring for the moment the ambiguity in the "just fine" comment, why?

Because Peyton Manning is one of the top 2 QBs in the league and one of the best and most intelligent QBs of all time. If the Colts replace Moore with even just a "capable" OC, I am confident that Manning knows NFL offenses & defenses well enough at this point in his career that he will be able to put together effective game plans with his new OC on a week-to-week basis. Manning, for the most part, knows what works and what doesn't. And Polian is still going to get him effective teammates to work with.And as an aside, any available OC would kill for the chance to work with Manning, so the Colts would probably more or less have their pick of anyone who is available.

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May. Regardless, why would such an OC have to even be "capable" given what you're saying about Manning? Do they do nothing more with that offense than stand there and try to look pretty with a clipboard and headset? You didn't really answer my question other than to generally compliment Manning's intelligence (fine so far), but then talk about how a competent OC could replace Moore, which only begs my question.

 

[Adebisi]

Suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body riding on Manning's coattails is absurd given the respect around the league for Moore and his talents.

I'm not suggesting that Moore is nothing more than a warm body (I think he's one of the best OCs in the league), but I am suggesting that Manning will be just fine without him.

Ignoring for the moment the ambiguity in the "just fine" comment, why?

Because Peyton Manning is one of the top 2 QBs in the league and one of the best and most intelligent QBs of all time. If the Colts replace Moore with even just a "capable" OC, I am confident that Manning knows NFL offenses & defenses well enough at this point in his career that he will be able to put together effective game plans with his new OC on a week-to-week basis. Manning, for the most part, knows what works and what doesn't. And Polian is still going to get him effective teammates to work with.And as an aside, any available OC would kill for the chance to work with Manning, so the Colts would probably more or less have their pick of anyone who is available.

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May. Regardless, why would such an OC have to even be "capable" given what you're saying about Manning? Do they do nothing more with that offense than stand there and try to look pretty with a clipboard and headset? You didn't really answer my question other than to generally compliment Manning's intelligence (fine so far), but then talk about how a competent OC could replace Moore, which only begs my question.

I guess I find it hard to believe that Moore is seriously considering retirement right now, despite what he might be saying, so my comment about having their pick of OCs was directed more towards whenever the guy finally does decide to call it quits (which I believe will be during a more appropriate time of an offseason at some point in the future).OCs are important, obviously. If you or I tried to step in as the Colts OC, there would be a significant drop in production. But if they bring in Joe NFL OC (basically someone who may not be a top OC, but is at least qualified for the job), they will continue to have a very effective offense.They've got one of the best QBs of all time, a very good supporting cast around him, and a GM who knows how to build a roster (and seemingly knows how to assemble a competent coaching staff). If you don't believe that they'd still have an effective offense with a new OC in town, then I guess the bottom line is that you probably just value Moore (who I've already said is one of the best OCs in the league) way, way, way, way more than I do.I'm not really sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp.

 

[djcolts]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

 

[T Bell]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

Good on them to have groomed a successor, but that's not the same thing as "having their pick", now is it.

 

[djcolts]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

Good on them to have groomed a successor, but that's not the same thing as "having their pick", now is it.

I don't understand your point.

 

[Adebisi]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

Good on them to have groomed a successor, but that's not the same thing as "having their pick", now is it.

Give it up, T Bell.

 

[Adebisi]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

Good on them to have groomed a successor, but that's not the same thing as "having their pick", now is it.

I don't understand your point.

He doesn't really have one - he just likes to run around looking for people to correct. I think he's upset with my point of view that being the offensive coordinator for the Colts would be a dream job for pretty much any OC. Why would he be upset about that or try to convince us otherwise? I haven't got a clue.

 

[T Bell]

In May. They're going to "have their pick" of OC's. In May.

I already said who the replacement would be - there's just no question it would be receiver coach Clyde Christensen. The Colts have been grooming him for the job knowing that Moore would retire soon (just not expecting it to be this year) - just like they groomed Caldwell to be HC - and Pete Metzelaars to be the OL coach.

Good on them to have groomed a successor, but that's not the same thing as "having their pick", now is it.

I don't understand your point.

He doesn't really have one - he just likes to run around looking for people to correct. I think he's upset with my point of view that being the offensive coordinator for the Colts would be a dream job for pretty much any OC. Why would he be upset about that or try to convince us otherwise? I haven't got a clue.

Poor thing, you said something stupid and got called on it, and now you blame the messenger. You couldn't explain your reasoning even when asked. I'll let that speak for itself. As for being upset, no, I'm not upset. I'm not a Colts and I don't even have Manning on any roster. I just find it amusing how many people use such simplistic reasoning as to think that Manning is good and smart, so therefore it doesn't matter who his offensive coordinator is or what he does.

 

[Bri]

May I ask what you're basing this on?I don't think he's HC material yet either - I said as much before Denver even hired him - but I'm wondering why you feel that he had more help than most OC. Is it simply because he was working with Belichick and Brady? If that's the case, can't we assume the same about Weis and Moore?

Yeah absolutely something along those lines. Plus McDaniels took an entry level job with the Pats in 2001 after Saban recommended him and as I understand it, his father is the well respected coach not Josh. Granted it's just high school but apparently the guy has won a ton of games and turned down college offers etc over the years.Anyhow, back in 01 McDaniels was hired as a personnel assistant. Then a "defensive assistant" and how much did he really do then?In 04 he was QB coach for two years then OC for 2 years.4 years as a coach(of some form) in the NFL doesn't make you ready to be a HC IMO. If this was one of those where some old codger like Arnsparger or Reeves was going to be working with the HC(holding his hand some) then it would make more sense to me.Also, FWIW I still think Mangini is learning essentials and not ready to be a HC-more like on the job training. They were asking Romeo to stay when they hired Mangini. Now that Romeo's decided not to, I don't like the hire. But one example-they have 7? 8? 9? WRs and have been landing them at a good pace. Well after all those signings and picks they finally actually hired a WR coach. Little late, don't ya think? And I don't think Mangini(or new GM) will do that again, it's just learning on the job IMO.

 

[PrimUomo]

They should just let Peyton to be the OC/QB.

 

[Adebisi]

Poor thing, you said something stupid and got called on it, and now you blame the messenger. You couldn't explain your reasoning even when asked. I'll let that speak for itself. As for being upset, no, I'm not upset. I'm not a Colts and I don't even have Manning on any roster. I just find it amusing how many people use such simplistic reasoning as to think that Manning is good and smart, so therefore it doesn't matter who his offensive coordinator is or what he does.

...and I find it amusing that you seem to think that Manning wouldn't continue to excel with a lesser OC, as long as he was reasonably competent. Moore is good at what he does, but I believe that Peyton Manning will continue to light it up even after Moore retires.I'll tell you what: when Moore eventually does retire and Manning either continues to play like the Hall of Fame QB that he is or we see his play substantially decline in Moore's absence, maybe we can pick this debate back up at that point. My money is on Manning continuing to excel. Apparently, you feel differently.Until that time comes, please continue to attempt to correct people at every turn, regardless of whether or not there is any real relevancy or point to what you're trying to say.

 

[pizzatyme]

When Moore retires the Colts WILL have their pick of replacements. His name is Christensen.

Why would Manning's production decline with a new OC? Isn't there as much chance for it to remain flay or improve with the new OC? It's not like Manning and Moore lock themselves in seclusion on a weekly basis to gameplan.

Honestly, I'm ready for a change at OC. I think the offense was stagnant the last couple of years in the gameplan. I saw the Colts having to switch gears at halftime on many occasions. Maybe a fresh perspective, coupled with 8 years of seasoning for a new OC would bring positive results?!

And, as djcolts correctly stated, the bigger concern is with Mudd's possible departure.