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Rick Gosselien's First mock (1 Viewer)

Do want to add that I'm not talking about Rice on fly routes. I know he has the speed to eat the cushion and go by the corner. I'm talking about the other routes. Maybe it's more of a lack of route running than acceleration?
:no: I think the WRs rock, Construx. I even think NFL scouting departments are suffering from paralysis by analysis if they let these WRs fall for these OLs or LBs, and even several of the DBs. We'll see how it shakes out, but you didn't have to have a gift for evaluating talent the last couple years to see that WRs were usually the best football players on the field every Saturday. It is a very strange imbalance of talent, imo, but that shouldn't be so hard to work with on draft day.
 
- 6 WRs in the first? Im sure CC is LOVING that.
You and I know Sidney Rice is an outstanding prospect. Explosive at the LoS, amazing hands, comes down with the ball in a crowd, is sneaky getting deep on very fast corners, runs underrated routes, but mostly just a dominating kind of athlete who can take over a game even when double covered. Possibly the best corner in the draft, Chris Houston, punked Jarrett at the LoS, proved it was no fluke by abusing the powerful Bowe the same way, then he had less press success but was still dominant against Meachem... yet, Rice had his way with Houston. It just one line of thinking that shouldn't determine final grades, and I really like Anthony Gonzalez, but I cannot possibly look at him and Rice and... and take Gonzo. Lately I am seeing this enormous slide for Rice. There's "whispers" hidden between the lines that he has really screwed up in interviews or with his schedule and willingness to work for teams. I don't know anything more than that, and I wonder if you have heard something more detailed... because... we're now talking Gosselin here and Rice is not a first rounder. I absolutely expected to see him in the mock. As you know I list Rice as one of the three most underrated prospects. I have no problem with Gonzo, or Smith, or Hill sneaking into the late 1st round. These WRs are the class of this draft. I just think Rice is better than them.
You know that I :confused: Rice too. Honestly, he's the #2 WR on MY board, but I just come to accept that he's unlikely to land in the first because... well, i can't really say. It just seems like the prevailing winds are blowing that direction. I have not heard anything specific about his fall.
FWIW, McShay has Rice as the 8th best WR saying that while first round height, athleticism and leaping ability, he has Day 2 burst and strength.
Well pardon the arrogant tone, but McShay isn't paying attention. How do they measure burst? They have two keys and the film to go by. The ten yard split. Rice was amazing. The best measure of burst? The vertical jump. Rice is a 40" freakazoid. Finally the film. Chris Houston jams the life out of Bowe and Jarrett but Rice runs right through him all day. Whatever. Rice may be making some mistakes causing him to fall, and he is raw, but McShay is way off on these particular points.
You're much better at seeing these things than I am, but I honestly have been wondering about his separation when watching some of his tape. I agree that 10 yd split and VJ are good indicators of that, but I just don't see him getting away from DBs as well as he should when I saw him play.
Well... :lmao: Calvin Johnson had some bad games. I've seen him drop a game winning pass. I've seen him with alligator arms looking for Weddle not the ball. What Rice games are you watching? His highlights are impressive, but he is often surrounded because those are impressive plays. No WRs were double covered more than Rice and Calvin over the past two seasons. Did you see Rice against Arkansas (Chris Houston), Bowe, Jarrett, Meachem? Ask Chris Houston who was the toughest. That was his only losing battle all year.How about Rice and Calvin against Tye Hill two years ago? Hill made his name against Johnson and was schooled by Rice. Johnson caught two balls for something like 22 yards. Someone can look it up. Tye Hill became a hot name in the draftnik community after that game. A few weeks later this hotshot freshman comes to town and Hill tries the same stuff. Rice smoked him for 7 and 120+. It was all man coverage in both games. Rice is a bad man. Also he is still 20 years old. The upside is awesome. He will get much bigger and stronger. Remember TO as a rookie? He looked a lot ALOT like Rice.also, I apologize to all worshipers at Calvin's altar for the blasphemy. Forgive me. But don't give me that Reggie Ball stuff in this context. Rice too had to be gumby for his QBs.
I love it when CC and I are on the same side.I've been steadfast about Rice as my #2 WR, and I could have never made a better case than the one CC makes above. He's just a freakin soph! What he did in college was just basically what came naturally to him. His body is going to fill out, and his technique will get better, all the time those natural instincts that allowed him to take over games at times will get be getting honed.Some team is going to get a steal when Rice falls to the 2nd round.
 
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- 6 WRs in the first? Im sure CC is LOVING that.
You and I know Sidney Rice is an outstanding prospect. Explosive at the LoS, amazing hands, comes down with the ball in a crowd, is sneaky getting deep on very fast corners, runs underrated routes, but mostly just a dominating kind of athlete who can take over a game even when double covered. Possibly the best corner in the draft, Chris Houston, punked Jarrett at the LoS, proved it was no fluke by abusing the powerful Bowe the same way, then he had less press success but was still dominant against Meachem... yet, Rice had his way with Houston. It just one line of thinking that shouldn't determine final grades, and I really like Anthony Gonzalez, but I cannot possibly look at him and Rice and... and take Gonzo. Lately I am seeing this enormous slide for Rice. There's "whispers" hidden between the lines that he has really screwed up in interviews or with his schedule and willingness to work for teams. I don't know anything more than that, and I wonder if you have heard something more detailed... because... we're now talking Gosselin here and Rice is not a first rounder. I absolutely expected to see him in the mock. As you know I list Rice as one of the three most underrated prospects. I have no problem with Gonzo, or Smith, or Hill sneaking into the late 1st round. These WRs are the class of this draft. I just think Rice is better than them.
You know that I :P Rice too. Honestly, he's the #2 WR on MY board, but I just come to accept that he's unlikely to land in the first because... well, i can't really say. It just seems like the prevailing winds are blowing that direction. I have not heard anything specific about his fall.
FWIW, McShay has Rice as the 8th best WR saying that while first round height, athleticism and leaping ability, he has Day 2 burst and strength.
Well pardon the arrogant tone, but McShay isn't paying attention. How do they measure burst? They have two keys and the film to go by. The ten yard split. Rice was amazing. The best measure of burst? The vertical jump. Rice is a 40" freakazoid. Finally the film. Chris Houston jams the life out of Bowe and Jarrett but Rice runs right through him all day. Whatever. Rice may be making some mistakes causing him to fall, and he is raw, but McShay is way off on these particular points.
You're much better at seeing these things than I am, but I honestly have been wondering about his separation when watching some of his tape. I agree that 10 yd split and VJ are good indicators of that, but I just don't see him getting away from DBs as well as he should when I saw him play.
Well... :D Calvin Johnson had some bad games. I've seen him drop a game winning pass. I've seen him with alligator arms looking for Weddle not the ball. What Rice games are you watching? His highlights are impressive, but he is often surrounded because those are impressive plays. No WRs were double covered more than Rice and Calvin over the past two seasons. Did you see Rice against Arkansas (Chris Houston), Bowe, Jarrett, Meachem? Ask Chris Houston who was the toughest. That was his only losing battle all year.How about Rice and Calvin against Tye Hill two years ago? Hill made his name against Johnson and was schooled by Rice. Johnson caught two balls for something like 22 yards. Someone can look it up. Tye Hill became a hot name in the draftnik community after that game. A few weeks later this hotshot freshman comes to town and Hill tries the same stuff. Rice smoked him for 7 and 120+. It was all man coverage in both games. Rice is a bad man. Also he is still 20 years old. The upside is awesome. He will get much bigger and stronger. Remember TO as a rookie? He looked a lot ALOT like Rice.also, I apologize to all worshipers at Calvin's altar for the blasphemy. Forgive me. But don't give me that Reggie Ball stuff in this context. Rice too had to be gumby for his QBs.
I love it when CC and I are on the same side.I've been steadfast about Rice as my #2 WR, and I could have never made a better case than the one CC makes above. He's just a freakin soph! What he did in college was just basically what came naturally to him. His body is going to fill out, and his technique will get better, all the time those natural instincts that allowed him to take over games at times will get be getting honed.Some team is going to get a steal when Rice falls to the 2nd round.
There is a tremendous bust factor with Rice. He does not work hard, has attitude problems, is immature and has no mental toughness. There are hundreds if not thousands of talented players that never make it because of these qualities.
 
CC...FWIW, McShay basically mirrors your thoughts on the makeup of the positions that should go in the first two rounds. He has 10 WR in the first 64 "ranked" players and to be fair Rice is rated just outside the first round.

He has a total of 5 LBs in the first 64 (if my count is right, 9 were taken last year), which mirrors your belief that this is a weak LB class. He also has 10 OL (again if my count is right 10 were taken in the first 2 rounds last year, 7 of which were labelled as tackles though I'm sure some of those guys were moved inside) in the top 64, though to be fair only 5 of those are labelled OT which is a little odd.

So it looks like Rice may be one of the few areas where you two disagree.

 
There is a tremendous bust factor with Rice. He does not work hard, has attitude problems, is immature and has no mental toughness. There are hundreds if not thousands of talented players that never make it because of these qualities.
:goodposting: Seriously. Spurrier has nothing but praise for him. His teammates thought he was crazy not to turn pro early because he's ready. His HS coaches describe him as the most competitive kid they have ever seen. BUT, I am not arguing. Something seems to be devaluing him. If it is the things you say, so be it, and he will not succeed. I just haven't been able to find those criticism. Where did you find them?
 
So it looks like Rice may be one of the few areas where you two disagree.
:goodposting: I always try to say "probably, maybe, I think, and possibly" and I'm pretty wishy washy and willing to change my mind, and I always admit I could have things wrong. I just don't see Rice's possible fatal flaw as something physical. He really can dominate a football game from double coverage. Now, the stuff our friend from Ga Tech says, which might have something to do with me blaspheming he who rules the universe, actually makes sense to me. I just have never seen it validated. Wide receivers can sure be mental squirrels and throw away amazing talent. Rice sure could be one of those types. I have no way to be sure on that issue.
 
So it looks like Rice may be one of the few areas where you two disagree.
:wub: I always try to say "probably, maybe, I think, and possibly" and I'm pretty wishy washy and willing to change my mind, and I always admit I could have things wrong. I just don't see Rice's possible fatal flaw as something physical. He really can dominate a football game from double coverage. Now, the stuff our friend from Ga Tech says, which might have something to do with me blaspheming he who rules the universe, actually makes sense to me. I just have never seen it validated. Wide receivers can sure be mental squirrels and throw away amazing talent. Rice sure could be one of those types. I have no way to be sure on that issue.
I :mellow: rice too.
 
So it looks like Rice may be one of the few areas where you two disagree.
:wub: I always try to say "probably, maybe, I think, and possibly" and I'm pretty wishy washy and willing to change my mind, and I always admit I could have things wrong. I just don't see Rice's possible fatal flaw as something physical. He really can dominate a football game from double coverage. Now, the stuff our friend from Ga Tech says, which might have something to do with me blaspheming he who rules the universe, actually makes sense to me. I just have never seen it validated. Wide receivers can sure be mental squirrels and throw away amazing talent. Rice sure could be one of those types. I have no way to be sure on that issue.
maybe my impressions are wrong though. Need to look over some video of him. But I sure don't feel comfortable going against you and Bloom on an issue. That's like being the US Hockey Team taking on Russia.Wait...how did that one turn out? :mellow:
 
There is a tremendous bust factor with Rice. He does not work hard, has attitude problems, is immature and has no mental toughness. There are hundreds if not thousands of talented players that never make it because of these qualities.
:no: Seriously. Spurrier has nothing but praise for him. His teammates thought he was crazy not to turn pro early because he's ready. His HS coaches describe him as the most competitive kid they have ever seen. BUT, I am not arguing. Something seems to be devaluing him. If it is the things you say, so be it, and he will not succeed. I just haven't been able to find those criticism. Where did you find them?
I have no idea if this is accurate, but nfldraftscout says his draft stock fell some after he balked at running his 40 on his Pro Day. They also echo the feeling that he may have trouble getting separation against quality corners...Link....On the nfl site they make reference to his inability to use his physical gifts in crowds to catch the ball citing 17 pass deflections against him and generally doesn't believe he has the strength to go over the middlenfldraftscout is also saying that Houston is falling as scouts question his run support, instincts, and big-play ability saying some teams are giving him second and third round grades. Both that site and the NFL writeup make reference to Ahmad Carroll in a less than flattering way.

Fairly or unfairly, I also think there's the perception that Spurrier's recievers aren't good pro bets.

 
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