Rivers to the NYJ for the #4 pick? (1 Viewer)

[azcards33]

Sports Illustrated's Rumor Mill:

The Broncos have had at least two internal discussions about acquiring Dolphins running back Ricky Williams, but the teams have not talked about a deal. The Denver Post, citing two NFL sources, reported this week that coach Mike Shanahan might consider trading for Williams but likely only if the team does not trade for receiver Terrell Owens.

-- Miami Herald

Redskins vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato denied Internet and broadcast reports Wednesday linking the team to Terrell Owens. "Our head coach [Joe Gibbs] said it before," Cerrato said. "We think he's an outstanding player, but he just doesn't fit us."

-- Washington Post

For those who gasped when they found out the Chiefs were interested in talking to Terrell Owens, or wondered whether Kansas City was feigning interest to drive up the price on AFC rival Denver, the answer came Wednesday in Herm Edwards' eyes. Edwards said a meeting between Terrell Owens and the Chiefs may happen soon.

-- Kansas City Star

Shaun Alexander and the Seahawks might be together for the last time Sunday at Ford Field. Alexander said he would give the team first shot at re-signing him, but if there's no deal by March 3, the start of free agency, consider him gone.

-- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

How many teams will bid for Shaun Alexander if he hits the open market? It's hard to say. But the Vikings have a new owner and salary cap money to burn ($18 million under). So do the Cardinals ($25 million under), who will be moving into a new stadium next year. And the Browns ($24 million under) could be a player, too. It's conceivable that a team like the Eagles or Cowboys, possibly one impact player away from Super Bowl status, could enter the fray.

-- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

If anybody knows a scouting report on San Diego's quarterbacks, it's new Jets assistant Brian Schottenheimer. The Jets need a quarterback, and have the draft's fourth overall pick as ammunition -- the exact spot in which Philip Rivers was selected. San Diego would prefer not to trade either Rivers or Drew Brees, but if it had to part with one, the Chargers might prefer to deal Brees.

 

[Patoons]

If anybody knows a scouting report on San Diego's quarterbacks, it's new Jets assistant Brian Schottenheimer. The Jets need a quarterback, and have the draft's fourth overall pick as ammunition -- the exact spot in which Philip Rivers was selected. San Diego would prefer not to trade either Rivers or Drew Brees, but if it had to part with one, the Chargers might prefer to deal Brees.

I sure hope not- I think we could surely use D'Brick or Hawk. That is too much for Rivers IMO- you've lost two years with him sitting on a bench and we haven't seen any NFL playing time of him yet.

 

[Warhogs]

I don't know though....

I believe San Diego would pick up his bonus so he would be a young prospect that comes with a low contract. Hard to say but I would think the interest in Rivers would be high if they Jets think he is a good prospect.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I don't know though....

I believe San Diego would pick up his bonus so he would be a young prospect that comes with a low contract. Hard to say but I would think the interest in Rivers would be high if they Jets think he is a good prospect.

Seems fair value to me. You get a former #4 pick on the cheap and he's already had two years of practice under his belt. Jets may be able to get a second or third rounder back as well.

 

[David Yudkin]

There have been numerous threads discussing Rivers' trade value, and it is expected to be far more than the #4 pick. He's already had two years of experience in a pro system and his entire signing bonus has been paid. The Chargers would have to eat the cap hit to trade him.

Some concluded that it would take a package similar to what got him to SD in the first place . . . so an early first rounder this year, a first rounder next year, and either a lower level pick in either year or an established player.

 

[King of the Jungle]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

 

[gman8343]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

 

[David Yudkin]

To further clarify, Rivers would come to his new team without the need to payout his $14.25 million signing bonus. IMO, that clearly makes him worth substantially MORE than the #4 pick.

I also think the Chargers will try to keep both of their QBs given the injury to Brees.

 

[-OZ-]

There have been numerous threads discussing Rivers' trade value, and it is expected to be far more than the #4 pick. He's already had two years of experience in a pro system and his entire signing bonus has been paid. The Chargers would have to eat the cap hit to trade him.

Some concluded that it would take a package similar to what got him to SD in the first place . . . so an early first rounder this year, a first rounder next year, and either a lower level pick in either year or an established player.

While he may be worth it, who would give it?IMO, the Chargers are going to either take far less than this, or stick with the two QBs. Or trade Brees, which IMO would be a mistake.

With other QBs like Schaub, Kitna, Garrard, and a couple others sitting on the bench, teams aren't going to pay a king's ransom for Rivers. Even if we believe he's the best of the group.

Plus, a team has to consider how much better they're making the Chargers with a deal like that. I suppose an NFC team desperate for a QB might be willing to overpay, but again - who?

It would take a team far closer to winning than the Jets (besides, Penny isn't horrible) to pay this price, maybe Chicago, Dallas if they give up on the Drew's, or AZ, but I doubt it.

 

[Banger]

To further clarify, Rivers would come to his new team without the need to payout his $14.25 million signing bonus. IMO, that clearly makes him worth substantially MORE than the #4 pick.

I also think the Chargers will try to keep both of their QBs given the injury to Brees.

not only is their the salary advantage but also having two years of experience in practice and learning the pro game thru watching film as the #2 qb.

 

[King of the Jungle]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

IMO, unproven drafted players are similar to purchasing a new car. Once you drive that car of the lot, you should not be able to sell it back for the same price. Rivers had a great college career, unfortunately he is still as unproven in the NFL as Marcus Vick is. Even in preseason Rivers has not been impressive. This is not to say that he will not go on to have a great NFL career. I just find it hard to believe that SD would receive a top 10 pick for him at this point (more power to them if they can though).

 

[noneother]

i would think rivers could do well in New Orleans.. maybe for NOs second and third

 

[David Yudkin]

With other QBs like Schaub, Kitna, Garrard, and a couple others sitting on the bench, teams aren't going to pay a king's ransom for Rivers. Even if we believe he's the best of the group.

Here's the thing . . . the Schaubs, Kitnas, and Garrards of the world have been thought to be backups or emergency starters. I that there are still experts that view Rivers as a franchise type QB (although I didn't ever think he was in the truly elite class of QBs).Fantasy footballers many time forget the intense economics of real football. There's no way the Chargers would part with a former #4 pick even straight up for the same pick, effectively giving another team a "free" $14 million in cash to play with. If Rivers had been a starter by now and completely bombed (a la Harrington) that would be different.That's part of the reason why I think the Chargers will try to keep Brees and Rivers. They will have a tough time getting what they want for Rivers, as he has not played much and may be viewed as too costly. And with Brees hurt, they need insurance.Brees is also problematic, as he was franchised this year and would cost them $9.6 million to get him back (if they franchised him again). And if they did franchise him, I doubt another team would want a QB for that price for a single year unless they worked out a trade and a new contract at the same time. I could see the Chargers letting Brees walk, but I don't see that as a very likely outcome. I think they will wait and see how he revoers from his shoulder injury before doing much of anything.

 

[-OZ-]

With other QBs like Schaub, Kitna, Garrard, and a couple others sitting on the bench, teams aren't going to pay a king's ransom for Rivers. Even if we believe he's the best of the group.

Here's the thing . . . the Schaubs, Kitnas, and Garrards of the world have been thought to be backups or emergency starters. I that there are still experts that view Rivers as a franchise type QB (although I didn't ever think he was in the truly elite class of QBs).Fantasy footballers many time forget the intense economics of real football. There's no way the Chargers would part with a former #4 pick even straight up for the same pick, effectively giving another team a "free" $14 million in cash to play with. If Rivers had been a starter by now and completely bombed (a la Harrington) that would be different.

That's part of the reason why I think the Chargers will try to keep Brees and Rivers. They will have a tough time getting what they want for Rivers, as he has not played much and may be viewed as too costly. And with Brees hurt, they need insurance.

Brees is also problematic, as he was franchised this year and would cost them $9.6 million to get him back (if they franchised him again). And if they did franchise him, I doubt another team would want a QB for that price for a single year unless they worked out a trade and a new contract at the same time. I could see the Chargers letting Brees walk, but I don't see that as a very likely outcome. I think they will wait and see how he revoers from his shoulder injury before doing much of anything.

We're pretty much in agreement here, except that I don't see Schaub as a career backup. Maybe not a franchise QB, but a better value. Then again, Atlanta probably needs to keep him.So in the meantime, Marty has two "franchise" QBs on the roster, but could use help elsewhere.

Are there any LBs or DEs that might be dealt for Rivers?

Abraham - franchise and trade?

Ray Lewis for Rivers?

I have no idea of the cap ramifications for either, but both would help SD more than Rivers or the pick.

 

[Irish]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

He hasn't played for 2 years that is what has changed.

 

[-OZ-]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

He hasn't played for 2 years that is what has changed.

You're not the only one to think this way, but I disagree with it entirely and agree with Banger on this one. He's been through 2 years of NFL practice and learned from one of the better QBs in the league.I doubt anyone pays the required price, but Rivers is worth more today than he was 2 years ago. (Still not as much as Leinart or Young IMO)

 

[AB in DC]

It's funny how people on this board dismiss the rumors on ProFootballTalk but will discuss to death an item that is clearly 100% speculation.

 

[Sinrman]

To further clarify, Rivers would come to his new team without the need to payout his $14.25 million signing bonus. IMO, that clearly makes him worth substantially MORE than the #4 pick.

I also think the Chargers will try to keep both of their QBs given the injury to Brees.

You beat me to it. It's not just the fact that he's considered one of the best young QBs to come out of college in years (I said ONE, not THE), and commands a high draft pick. It's the fact that his signing bonus is paid, and his salary isn't insane, which would be a huge bonus to a team that trades for him. Also, as mentioned, he has two years to see how the NFL works. Granted he has little PT at all, but I think overall a team that trades for him could get a steal.SD would be absolutely stupid to do it for just the #4 overall, and I doubt they would. I would also expect them to get a player (Abraham?) or a first next year or maybe a second or third this year and a second and third next year...?

 

[Bri]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

I have a similar opinion toward him plus he's "rusty" having not played much for 3 years(if this rumor is true, by the time he does).Whatever the Jets did with Pennington was perfect. He came in after similarly sittin' and learnin' and was one of the more accurate QBs I can ever recall. Brady went from "nothing" to star real quick, but two examples.

It's not unheard of but I have a hard time believing all the Rivers love around here. When he's played he's looked average if not worse, I mean there were preseason games Lemon looked better than him last year. When young Vick played in preseason and ran past the Giants secondary lightning fast, when he threw a long bomb while running "on the money" OK I saw what made you guys go crazy for his talent. I don't get that feeling from Rivers.

I would call Pennington and Brady especially smart QBs in the same mold as Kosar mentally. You can just see such a great thought process that their accuracy is not surprising at all. That is one of the main reasons I believe they didn't struggle like JP Losman last year and zillions of young QBs before him. If this rumor is true, I hope Rivers is similarly smart for Jets fans' sake.

If you can't tell me with some confidence he'll come in and do well right away and won't have that young QB learning and struggling type year well then I say just skip the trade and take a QB at #4. I just don't see what ya gain. Is Rivers that much better than Vince Young or whomever you think will fall to the Jets at #4?

 

[ericttspikes]

I'm cannot believe the Chargers would have any interest in getting rid of Rivers until they see what Brees looks like after rehab. That was a nasty looking injury.

 

[Texasmouth]

I'm cannot believe the Chargers would have any interest in getting rid of Rivers until they see what Brees looks like after rehab. That was a nasty looking injury.

Not to mention he isn't costing them much money. Why give away Rivers for another #4 pick they are going to have to give more money to? They can keep Rivers for insurance which is what they need a lot more than the #4 pick in my opinion.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

AJ Smith has said on numerous occasions that he is not going to trade Rivers. The Cap hit alone is something close to $11 Million. The Chargers are reported to be close to $25 Mill under. If they resign Brees, they still have plenty of money under their cap to sign draft picks, re do existing contracts, and make a big splash in free agency. Combined with the fact that Brees is hurt and they need insurnace, I can't see the Chargers dealing Rivers at all Barring a crazy trade, one that is not likely to be offered due to reasons stated above (car lot analogy, rusty, who knows).

 

[Capella]

i would think rivers could do well in New Orleans.. maybe for NOs second and third

 

[noneother]

i would think rivers could do well in New Orleans.. maybe for NOs second and third

wha, he worth a first, and NO needs soemthing....

 

[Capella]

i would think rivers could do well in New Orleans..  maybe for NOs second and third

wha, he worth a first, and NO needs soemthing....

I took that as you saying NO's 2nd and 3rd-rounder.

 

[noneother]

sorry, I would think NOs could push that high second, to get him to be honest, I think the high picks are more risky than the further back rounds... but the 34th overall for rivers, in my opinion should be considered maybe the 3rd and a WR? maybe stallworth straight up

 

[Tau837]

Previous post that might be useful here:

In comparison to Leinart:1. It is clear that many posting here don't know how good Rivers was in college. Look it up. He was one of the few best QBs in NCAA history. Most here will choose to believe that Leinart is better, though that is debatable from a statistical standpoint. Then consider that Leinart was surrounded by NFL caliber talent in college and Rivers wasn't. I think Rivers was a better prospect than Leinart is. But just as few gave him sufficient respect two years ago in comparison to Eli & Ben, both of whom he outperformed in college, they continue to downplay his accomplishments now.2. Rivers is cheaper, in both real dollars and cap dollars.3. Rivers has two years on Leinart in practicing with and against NFL players, watching film, learning an offense, etc. Rivers has done all of this with another Pro Bowl QB in a very successful offense.There is no doubt that Rivers' value should be higher than Leinart's. That means Rivers is worth more than the #2 pick, given the general assumption that the draft will go Bush-Leinart.

 

[Bears_Man2]

I don't understand those of you saying Rivers isn't worth a very high 1st round pick and better yet, what incentive does SD have to pay big $$ to another high first round pick? Rivers is owed very little in 2006.

Possible franchise QB's.....for as cheap as Rivers would be....is worth a king's ransom. Since when are those QB's drafted high guaranteed to be great??

Jets have a lot of needs beyond the QB position. Rivers isn't going to change that they'll be at most a 5-win team in 2006. I'd get Ferguson & suck in 2006 and hope you end up with Adrian Peterson (or Brady Quinn if Pennington isn't going to be the guy) n the draft.

 

[Patoons]

Jets have a lot of needs beyond the QB position. Rivers isn't going to change that they'll be at most a 5-win team in 2006. I'd get Ferguson & suck in 2006 and hope you end up with Adrian Peterson (or Brady Quinn if Pennington isn't going to be the guy) n the draft.

I completely agree with this. Despite the fact that Rivers would help with the salary cap situation (with SD paying the bonus)- the Jets need too many other positions to be filled.

 

[Banger]

It's funny how people on this board dismiss the rumors on ProFootballTalk but will discuss to death an item that is clearly 100% speculation.

that's why we come to this board, or at least I do, to hear what if's/hear other viewpoint, etc. What makes it great IMO.

 

[diesel7982]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

He hasn't played for 2 years that is what has changed.

You're not the only one to think this way, but I disagree with it entirely and agree with Banger on this one. He's been through 2 years of NFL practice and learned from one of the better QBs in the league.I doubt anyone pays the required price, but Rivers is worth more today than he was 2 years ago. (Still not as much as Leinart or Young IMO)

I cant understand Irish's logic.

Rivers is cheap salary wise, and has spent 2 years being taught by NFL coaches. He at the very least has the talent of a #4 pick.

This is a BAD thing?

 

[-OZ-]

maybe stallworth straight up

Now you may be on to something. I doubt they'd go for it (either side) but at least for NO, it makes a lot of sense.Keep the #2 or trade down, take D'Brick or even possibly get Bush.

Or maybe trade Deuce for Rivers.

 

[noneother]

maybe stallworth straight up

Now you may be on to something. I doubt they'd go for it (either side) but at least for NO, it makes a lot of sense.Keep the #2 or trade down, take D'Brick or even possibly get Bush.

Or maybe trade Deuce for Rivers.

deuce and LT?? naw... not happening there.... horn then??

 

[cstu]

If anybody knows a scouting report on San Diego's quarterbacks, it's new Jets assistant Brian Schottenheimer. The Jets need a quarterback, and have the draft's fourth overall pick as ammunition -- the exact spot in which Philip Rivers was selected. San Diego would prefer not to trade either Rivers or Drew Brees, but if it had to part with one, the Chargers might prefer to deal Brees.

I sure hope not- I think we could surely use D'Brick or Hawk. That is too much for Rivers IMO- you've lost two years with him sitting on a bench and we haven't seen any NFL playing time of him yet.

Seahawks fans were saying the same thing about Hasselbeck when the trade rumors were swirling and people thought he would cost a 1st round pick straight up. I see the situations are eerily similar, the main difference being one was a 6th round pick and the other a #4 overall pick.

 

[Kiddnets]

#4 to SD for Rivers and SD's first rd pick -

Seriously doubt any other type of deal goes down - Jets have too many needs to deal off the #4 for Rivers alone

 

[cstu]

Here's how I see the Philip Rivers situation:

1. The Chargers drafted him because they thought he was an elite prospect.

2. The Chargers still think he's an elite prospect.

3. Two years on the bench does not hurt a QB and is actually the best thing for a young QB in most cases.

4. The Chargers would take a $11.5M cap hit if they trade Rivers (this was explained on the Chargers board why it's still so high).

5. The Chargers are not going to take a big cap hit and trade him straight up for a high draft pick and give another rookie a huge bonus unless they get more than just that one pick.

6. The team getting Rivers would owe him no guaranteed money and have a very cheap 4 year/20M contract and could cut him with no penalty if he doesn't work out.

7. No one is going give up multiple high picks for Rivers, despite his cheap contract, and the Chargers aren't going to budge with their starter coming off shoulder surgery.

8. The Chargers keep Rivers, franchise Brees again and wait for a decent offer for Brees.

 

[Reaper]

I'll just repeat what I said in the OFFICIAL BREES-RIVERS Thread...

OFFCIAL BREES RIVERS THREAD

I just can't even fathom SD thinking about this for more than a second when Brees is a quearion mark....

I'm a Jets fan and I'd like to see a deal with Rivers to the Jets But, I think SD would be out of their minds to deal Rivers with Brees rehabbing....

Learn from the Jets - Prepare Rivers to be the Starter and be extra cautious with Brees and allow him more than enough time to get to 100%.

Maybe they can sign Brees to a deal where he can be easily or more easily traded - Play Rivers to start and get Brees enough playing time to show he's healthy...

If you're satisfied with Rivers after seeing him in actual games with some time to develop - you trade Brees next offseason or later in the season.

At this point you can make a logical decision based on 1) Brees Health / more value and 2) Rivers game experience.

 

[Sinrman]

I'll just repeat what I said in the OFFICIAL BREES-RIVERS Thread...

Hasn't there been like 102393089 Brees-Rivers threads already?

 

[Big Score]

(besides, Penny isn't horrible)

Hey Oz,I thought I'd read where the Jets were very concerned that Penny's shoulder is so torn up, that they think his career might be over? Are they now confident in a 100% recovery for Penny?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rivers is not going to be traded, but we're going to have this same thread about twelve more times before the start of the 2006 season.

Also, Rivers' market value is higher than just the #4 pick.

 

[Z-Dog]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

One thing that's changed is that he's been unable to win the starting job from a QB selected in the 2nd round. The other thing is that he's under contract for two fewer years, and the third thing is that he hasn't played any games in two years. Sorry, but he's not worth a 4th overall pick anymore.

 

[Texasmouth]

maybe stallworth straight up

Now you may be on to something. I doubt they'd go for it (either side) but at least for NO, it makes a lot of sense.Keep the #2 or trade down, take D'Brick or even possibly get Bush.

Or maybe trade Deuce for Rivers.

deuce and LT?? naw... not happening there.... horn then??

No way. Horn is 40.

 

[trader jake]

i guess TO speculation/discussion has ***officially*** jumped the shark

rivers for the #4 pick doesn't make sense for either NY or SD IMO

 

[Texasmouth]

rivers for the #4 pick doesn't make sense for either NY or SD IMO

I agree. Totally agree.

 

[BoltBacker]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

One thing that's changed is that he's been unable to win the starting job from a QB selected in the 2nd round.

What round was Joe Montana selected? When Steve Young couldn't even beat out that stiff I knew for sure they were both awful.

 

[Warhogs]

Agreed that what round Brees was selected in is just a poor argument. That guy Tom Brady was selected with a late draft pick. He must be no good.

 

[Reaper]

I'll just repeat what I said in the OFFICIAL BREES-RIVERS Thread...

Hasn't there been like 102393089 Brees-Rivers threads already?

Just sayin'.Not meant in an evil way - Just that maybe people could find good info in that thread as well if they're hot on the topic....

Personally, I agree that it doesn't make sense - Mostly for SD unless they somehow know Brees is and will be 100%.

 

[On The Rocks]

For those who gasped when they found out the Chiefs were interested in talking to Terrell Owens, or wondered whether Kansas City was feigning interest to drive up the price on AFC rival Denver, the answer came Wednesday in Herm Edwards' eyes. Edwards said a meeting between Terrell Owens and the Chiefs may happen soon.

-- Kansas City Star

the answer came because Edwards said a meeting "may happen soon?"sounds like more feigning interest until TO holds his first PC as a Chief.

 

[PMENFAN]

What has Rivers done to command a #4 pick? I don't get it.

what has anyone in college done in the NFL to command a high pick? Rivers went #4 because he was an incredible college QB. What's changed?

With those 2 years he was unable to beat out Drew Brees, whose play was the reason he was drafted #4. His value has fallen, IMHO. If the 2 #1's, plus a player/low pick, is their asking price, that explains why he's still there. He sure didn't look like he had 2 years of practice under his belt in his game 16 duty this year when Brees got hurt.

 

[Bri]

For those who gasped when they found out the Chiefs were interested in talking to Terrell Owens, or wondered whether Kansas City was feigning interest to drive up the price on AFC rival Denver, the answer came Wednesday in Herm Edwards' eyes. Edwards said a meeting between Terrell Owens and the Chiefs may happen soon.

-- Kansas City Star

the answer came because Edwards said a meeting "may happen soon?"sounds like more feigning interest until TO holds his first PC as a Chief.

they did meet, it's another thread here from a week or so agoWhat does this have to do with Rivers?