Robiskie Spin off.... Massaquoi big time sleeper (1 Viewer)

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.

Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.

Now it is tough for many to see Delhomme/Wallace combo as an upgrade, but in actuality it will be an upgrade for sure. The upgrade won't be enough to make Delhomme/Wallace startable in fantasy but it may allow for Massaquoi to enter WR 3 territory and perhaps with some luck maybe even WR 2 territory.

Massa has nice size at 6'2 and deceptive speed. He ran a 4.57 40 time at the combine which is not blazing but is adequate enough to run by defenders. He did have an 18.4 average which shows he has big play ability.

Massa's problem was inconsitency last year, but what rookie WR would not struggle wtih inconsistency in an offense that was being lead by QB's that were playing at such a low level. The Quinn/Anderson combo was dreadful yet still Massa showed flashes of a game changing ability and that he can be a good WR in the NFL.

Massa can solitify being a good player for a long time with a solid sophmore year. Holmgren/Mangini brought in 2 new QB's, a new RB and are making changes on the defensive side of the ball even saying Jackson can lose his job at LB. But what they did not do was make any changes at the WR position. No one was brought in and besides saying Cribbs will touch the ball more there is little standing in front of Massa having a nice year. The team is showing confidence in letting their young WR's develop and contribute to this team going forward.

Massa is in line to get 100 plus targets and although Cleveland won't morph into this amazing passing team he should be on fantasy radars as a late rough flier. Massa was not some 6th round come out of no where WR last year. He has talent (a 2nd round pick), beat our fellow rookie WR Robiskie also a 2nd round pick and showed glimpses of good play in an inept offense.

Massa's senior year was very good with the Bulldog's as he had 58 catches for 920 yards and 8 td's. It was over shadowed though by Stafford and Moreno being such good prospects and then A.J. Green having a very good rookie year with 58 catches for 963 yards and 8 td's.

Massa in dynasty can be had for cheap and in redraft he could be worth a late round flier.

 

[Moniker]

I posted this in a different thread a couple of months back, but it's worth repeating:

While Massaquoi may very well develop into a good WR, he has some fundamental problems that I see which will never allow him to become a truly great WR (fantasy or otherwise). First of all, he doesn't adjust well to the ball while it's in the air and he rarely catches the ball at it's highest point. I've noticed this on multiple occasions throughout last season. This can be corrected with coaching and practice, of course. More importantly, he doesn't have that "My Ball" attitude when going for the ball. This is a problem because it's not something that can be coached. You either want the ball or you do don't. This is what could really hold this kid back. Now, he was just a rookie last season and was just adjusting to the NFL, but these are some pretty important things that I noticed while watching him last season.

On top of this, inconsistent really isn't the word for his season last year. Mass got 33% of his entire year's production in 2 games. The first being a total surprise against Cinci and the other in a game against Detroit in which neither defense could stop the pass.

With that said, he may very well develop into a good WR, he just isn't there yet (and I don't see it happening any time soon). He's definitely worth a late round flier in a dynasty league if you can get him cheap, but I wouldn't expect much.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Good points and one of his faults is being inconsistent. But I think his faults are fixable.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

:goodthread:

I think Massaquoi is an absolute steal in redrafts with an ADP of WR56 currently. He gets an upgrade at quarterback and offensive system. I love him as a fantasy WR4

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Good points and one of his faults is being inconsistent. But I think his faults are fixable.

So you still believe in Braylon Edwards then?

 

[Weiner Dog]

Based on ADP, Mass is the lowest ranked unquestionable #1 WR for a team. Sure, there are battles in StL (Avery, Robinson, etc), CHI (Hester, Knox, etc), DEN (Gaffney, Royal, Thomas), OAK (DHB, Schillens, etc) and TB (Benn, Williams, Stroughter), but none of these players are the bona-fide crowned #1's for their respective teams. Mass will get his targets while the Brown play catch-up.

Delhomme has become a turnover machine, but he's not afraid to throw the ball. Delhomme is not a Trent Edwards where he won't throw deep...he's not a check-down machine like Matt Cassel...he's not a game manager like Alex Smith. Delhomme is a guy who will complete the pass, whether the WR or DB catches the ball.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

 

[twitch]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys? Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Im with ya here. Im pulling for the Browns to improve, but Ive never understood the Delhomme move. And I dont see the weather in Cleveland doing an old guy like him any favors. Id stay far, far away from the Cleveland passing game.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Does Massa not have any talent? He was drated in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and had a good rookie year. There has to be some talent there no? The guys I have bolded were once able to be had cheaply as well. I fail to see any harm in picking up decent talents in good situations if they can be had for cheap.

 

[twitch]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Does Massa not have any talent? He was drated in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and had a good rookie year. There has to be some talent there no? The guys I have bolded were once able to be had cheaply as well. I fail to see any harm in picking up decent talents in good situations if they can be had for cheap.

I just think there are too many options around the league to choose from, for me personally to wanna risk taking any receiver the Delhomme is gonna be forcing the ball to in a brand new O in bad weather during the latter part of the season. Not a knock on those receivers. More of an indictment on Delhomme, imo.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Does Massa not have any talent? He was drated in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and had a good rookie year. There has to be some talent there no? The guys I have bolded were once able to be had cheaply as well. I fail to see any harm in picking up decent talents in good situations if they can be had for cheap.

I've never thought he was a 2nd round talent anyway, I think he's a good complimentary WR but won't ever be a lead guy. He disappears for long periods of times and lacks toughness. He can make some big plays but consistency's been an issue his entire career (meaning, college and pro).

 

[treat88]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Does Massa not have any talent? He was drated in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and had a good rookie year. There has to be some talent there no? The guys I have bolded were once able to be had cheaply as well. I fail to see any harm in picking up decent talents in good situations if they can be had for cheap.

I've never thought he was a 2nd round talent anyway, I think he's a good complimentary WR but won't ever be a lead guy. He disappears for long periods of times and lacks toughness. He can make some big plays but consistency's been an issue his entire career (meaning, college and pro).

Good analysis.

Was severely overdrafted when he was taken in the second.

 

[SoopaCee]

i see what ppl are sayin and everything but i agree

as a wr#4 your really not losing much.....and since he is a #1 wr.....#1 as your #4 sounds pretty good in my book

on another site they have him listed as #54 wr....i would take him over any of these guys ahead of him

Holmes

avery

cribbs

jacoby jones

braylon

nate wash

nate burl

Demaryius thomas

and delhomme is an upgrade over most qbs on ####ty teams.....especially when MANG gets fired after like week 4 and they air it out all season

 

[GreatLakesMike]

I'm beginning to think the pool may be thinking too much. The Browns passing game was a joke last year, how has it improved? What sort of ceiling are you looking at here with these guys?

Yea, they're cheap, but there's a reason for that. Just because a guy is a #1 or a #2 WR doesn't mean they're going to provide meaningful value. You didn't win last season by plucking up guys like Donnie Avery, Justin Gage, Ted Ginn, etc. You won with guys like Miles Austin, Mike Sims Walker, and Sidney Rice.

Talent creates opportunity, draft those guys, not the lead dud on a bad team.

Does Massa not have any talent? He was drated in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and had a good rookie year. There has to be some talent there no? The guys I have bolded were once able to be had cheaply as well. I fail to see any harm in picking up decent talents in good situations if they can be had for cheap.

I've never thought he was a 2nd round talent anyway, I think he's a good complimentary WR but won't ever be a lead guy. He disappears for long periods of times and lacks toughness. He can make some big plays but consistency's been an issue his entire career (meaning, college and pro).

Horrible hands as well. He might not be at Braylon's level, but it's close.

 

[Timmay]

i see what ppl are sayin and everything but i agreeas a wr#4 your really not losing much.....and since he is a #1 wr.....#1 as your #4 sounds pretty good in my bookon another site they have him listed as #54 wr....i would take him over any of these guys ahead of himHolmesaverycribbsjacoby jonesbraylonnate washnate burlDemaryius thomasand delhomme is an upgrade over most qbs on ####ty teams.....especially when MANG gets fired after like week 4 and they air it out all season

I would certainly take Mass over all of those guys, however Steve Smith used to get so frustrated with Delhomme last year, he was terrible, and Steve Smith a lot of times would run those crossing, come-back and dump-off routes where it was easy for Delhomme to get rid of the ball early and let Smith do his work after the catch, but Delhomme struggled even doing that. I dont think the problem will be Mass it is going to be Delhomme.

 

[saintfool]

i'm not inclined to critique massaquoi or robiskie for their combined performances last year. they were in a wretched offense with some equally wretched QB play. massaquoi could have played better but quinn/anderson weren't doing him any favors. i'll wait to see what having different QBs means to their play on the field. i somehow doubt it could get worse for either of them.

as it stands, massaquoi and robiskie are not likely diamonds in the rough for re-draft leagues. dynasty leagues may show more patience with either of them and be rewarded.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

i see what ppl are sayin and everything but i agreeas a wr#4 your really not losing much.....and since he is a #1 wr.....#1 as your #4 sounds pretty good in my bookon another site they have him listed as #54 wr....i would take him over any of these guys ahead of himHolmesaverycribbsjacoby jonesbraylonnate washnate burlDemaryius thomasand delhomme is an upgrade over most qbs on ####ty teams.....especially when MANG gets fired after like week 4 and they air it out all season

I would certainly take Mass over all of those guys, however Steve Smith used to get so frustrated with Delhomme last year, he was terrible, and Steve Smith a lot of times would run those crossing, come-back and dump-off routes where it was easy for Delhomme to get rid of the ball early and let Smith do his work after the catch, but Delhomme struggled even doing that. I dont think the problem will be Mass it is going to be Delhomme.

You don't think Delhomme will be better at completing passes than Quinn/Anderson of a year ago?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Great chemistry between Massaquoi and Delhomme this evening going for 3 catches for 36 yards in the early part of this game. I still think to many people are really sleeping on his potential going forward especially in dynasty leagues.

 

[cheatsheetwarroom]

I can see Massaquoi putting up some nice numbers this year. Consider:

1. Over his career, Delhomme has made a habit out of targeting one particular receiver highly over others (see Steve Smith)

2. Cleveland will be playing from behind very, very often this year.

I previously had Massaquoi listed at #52 overall, but he has worked his way up to #40 in my rankings.

 

[Football Jones]

Massaquoi has a good chance to develop. Nice tools with nice upside. Robiskie's skill set isn't tailored to a WR1, but could make a decent 2.

The Browns actually have some nice upside on offense. When McCoy gets his chance in the next year or two, he could find himself in a very good situation.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

I can see Massaquoi putting up some nice numbers this year. Consider:1. Over his career, Delhomme has made a habit out of targeting one particular receiver highly over others (see Steve Smith)2. Cleveland will be playing from behind very, very often this year.I previously had Massaquoi listed at #52 overall, but he has worked his way up to #40 in my rankings.

Delhomme was all over him. A depth WR who could step in and produce on your team if needed. A very low 3/ high 4th WR with a great upside. He's on my radar for the rest of the preseason. It sure seemed like he was the first look on every down.I have had a lot to drink tonight as well.

 

[Bri]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.Massa is in line to get 100 plus targets and although Cleveland won't morph into this amazing passing team he should be on fantasy radars as a late rough flier. Massa was not some 6th round come out of no where WR last year. He has talent (a 2nd round pick), beat our fellow rookie WR Robiskie also a 2nd round pick and showed glimpses of good play in an inept offense.

I snipped the post.Didn't he start more games than any other Browns WR last year? How is he a "big time sleeper" if he had 95 targets? Why was his rookie year surprising if he was a second rounder? Why are you raving and only giving him 5 plus more targets? I like Massaquoi and enjoyed the thread, which is a great idea to start, but cmon with some of these extreme points.

 

[cvnpoka]

contrary to the overwhelming opinions itt, i think massaquoi has a lot of talent fwiw. not sayin i would be itchin to draft him or anything.

 

[cvnpoka]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.Massa is in line to get 100 plus targets and although Cleveland won't morph into this amazing passing team he should be on fantasy radars as a late rough flier. Massa was not some 6th round come out of no where WR last year. He has talent (a 2nd round pick), beat our fellow rookie WR Robiskie also a 2nd round pick and showed glimpses of good play in an inept offense.

I snipped the post.Didn't he start more games than any other Browns WR last year? How is he a "big time sleeper" if he had 95 targets? Why was his rookie year surprising if he was a second rounder? Why are you raving and only giving him 5 plus more targets? I like Massaquoi and enjoyed the thread, which is a great idea to start, but cmon with some of these extreme points.

he is a big time sleeper bc he is getting drafted super late if at all.afaict, op is not raving about his 5+ targets but saying that he is very likely to get a lot of looks. to be clear, getting 95 or 100 targets is a good thing in terms of fantasy football production. yes his rookie yr was surprising. how many 2nd round picks get that many targets? its good experience at least. its usually an indication of ability too.my interpretation of the post you decided to attack, was that mass is a good gamble bc he will get a lot of looks and his offense and qb situation has improved, possibly even improved immensely. further, mass has demonstrated ability by beating out the other guy.

 

[Bri]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.Massa is in line to get 100 plus targets and although Cleveland won't morph into this amazing passing team he should be on fantasy radars as a late rough flier. Massa was not some 6th round come out of no where WR last year. He has talent (a 2nd round pick), beat our fellow rookie WR Robiskie also a 2nd round pick and showed glimpses of good play in an inept offense.

I snipped the post.Didn't he start more games than any other Browns WR last year? How is he a "big time sleeper" if he had 95 targets? Why was his rookie year surprising if he was a second rounder? Why are you raving and only giving him 5 plus more targets? I like Massaquoi and enjoyed the thread, which is a great idea to start, but cmon with some of these extreme points.

he is a big time sleeper bc he is getting drafted super late if at all.afaict, op is not raving about his 5+ targets but saying that he is very likely to get a lot of looks. to be clear, getting 95 or 100 targets is a good thing in terms of fantasy football production. yes his rookie yr was surprising. how many 2nd round picks get that many targets? its good experience at least. its usually an indication of ability too.my interpretation of the post you decided to attack, was that mass is a good gamble bc he will get a lot of looks and his offense and qb situation has improved, possibly even improved immensely. further, mass has demonstrated ability by beating out the other guy.

attack, really? Did you read my last sentence?Nonetheless, Massaquoi had 34 for 624 yards. What do you expect he'll have in 2010?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.Massa is in line to get 100 plus targets and although Cleveland won't morph into this amazing passing team he should be on fantasy radars as a late rough flier. Massa was not some 6th round come out of no where WR last year. He has talent (a 2nd round pick), beat our fellow rookie WR Robiskie also a 2nd round pick and showed glimpses of good play in an inept offense.

I snipped the post.Didn't he start more games than any other Browns WR last year? How is he a "big time sleeper" if he had 95 targets? Why was his rookie year surprising if he was a second rounder? Why are you raving and only giving him 5 plus more targets? I like Massaquoi and enjoyed the thread, which is a great idea to start, but cmon with some of these extreme points.

Cvnpoka did a good job of answering this but I will add to it....You are correct Massaquoi played more than any other guy on their team. In fact, he started all 16 games which is something that is a luxury for rookie wr's. There are very few WR's that will start the season as rookies for their respective teams and in addition even less that have fantasy relevance by seasons end (mass himself was not fantasy relevant last year).Any WR that is in store for 100 plus targets that can be drafted as a WR 4 or later would classify as being a sleeper. I think there are many people that are/were failing to realize that Massa was targeted so often last year. This year he should eclipse the 100 target mark which allows opportunity for any WR with this many targets to be fantasy relevant. Massa had more targets then all these fellow rookies from a year ago: Percy Harvin, Jermey Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Johnny Knox, Pierre Garcon, Mike Wallace, Austin Collie, a shortetend season Crabtree. Now I am not saying draft Massa over these guys, but the fact that many of these guys are in store for big seasons and fantasy relevance then why not snag Massa where you can get him and as started in the original post get WR 3 production with a chance at WR 2 with some breaks going his way.Also, if you read the thread, you would see that many people thought that Massaquoi was a reach in the second round and many don't see him as being overly talented. I cited that he was pretty good in college and the Browns are appearing to get pretty good return so far on Massa.

 

[nysportsfan]

I've heard nothing about him lately..or all summer. Just took him at 13.04 and feel like he could be a great wr4. 100+ targets that late in the draft? Seems like a sleeper to me.

 

[rascal]

Massaquoi was a second round selection by the Browns at 2.18 last year and ended up having a suprising roookie season with 34 catches, for 624 yards and 3 tds.Massaquoi was targetted 95 times last year as a rookie in an offense that at times looked like one of the worst passing offenses in league history. The QB play was attrocious and has left a bad taste in the minds of fantasy owners everywhere.

So he had 95 targets and only caught 34 passes?!?!?!?

 

[MAC_32]

I've heard nothing about him lately..or all summer. Just took him at 13.04 and feel like he could be a great wr4. 100+ targets that late in the draft? Seems like a sleeper to me.

Bum hamstring, hasn't been on the field in a week and a half before tonight.