Roethlisberger - Pro Bowl? (1 Viewer)

[babydemon90]

Do you think so? If not, who will make it in instead?Manning is a gimme, obviously.Other contendersrew Brees Trent GreenTom Brady??

 

[Slider]

Not a chance. He's doing well but it's quite apparent it's their OLine that should be going.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

As of right now I think he'd have to be strongly considered. Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger would by my 3 choices with Brees and Plummer close behind.

 

[babydemon90]

As of right now I think he'd have to be strongly considered. Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger would by my 3 choices with Brees and Plummer close behind.

You have Brees BEHIND Roethlisberger and Brady? I'd think a 19-3 TD-INT ratio would put him #2 behind Manning.

 

[swandown]

Manning is a lock.

Brees should be a lock (6-1 TD-INT ratio is better than Manning's)

After that, I'd rate the AFC QBs as follows:

- Trent Green

- Tom Brady

- Roethlisberger

- Jake Plummer

I wasn't going to put Green so high, but after comparing all the QBs in 5 major statistical categories, Green had the 2nd best score to Brees:

       QBRat. Comp.%  Y/G    TD/G   INT/G  AVG.Brees    1      3      4      2      1      2.2Green    3      2      1      4      4      2.8Big Ben  2      1      5      5      2      3.0Brady    4      4      3      3      3      3.4Plummer  5      5      2      1      5      3.6

Taking the entire AFC into account, their rankings are:

QBRat. Comp.%  Y/G    TD/G   INT/G  AVG.Brees    2      6      8      3      1      4.0Green    5      3      2      5      8      4.6Big Ben  3      1      12     6      4      5.2Brady    6      8      5      4      6      5.6Plummer  7      9      4      2      10     6.4

 

[Ghost Rider]

Roethlisberger should be the 5th choice AT BEST. Manning, Brady, Plummer and Brees are all much more deserving. Just because Roethlisberger is having a great rookie season doesn't mean he should get the nod over players who are clearly having better seasons.

 

[Evilgrin72]

He certainly should go. The guy hasn't lost a game yet.If you want to go strictly by stats, so be it, but I value wins and losses from a QB over just numbers.Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger should represent the AFC if the season ended today, IMO, with Brees a VERY close 4th and Plummer/Green not in the picture.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I wasn't going to put Green so high, but after comparing all the QBs in 5 major statistical categories, Green had the 2nd best score to Brees:

       QBRat. Comp.%  Y/G    TD/G   INT/G  AVG.Brees    1      3      4      2      1      2.2Green    3      2      1      4      4      2.8Big Ben  2      1      5      5      2      3.0Brady    4      4      3      3      3      3.4Plummer  5      5      2      1      5      3.6

That chart is misleading. Of course, Green is going to be first in yards per game because the Chiefs are always having to play catch-up because of their horrible defense. Meanwhile, Brady, Plummer and Roethlisberger's teams all have great defenses, so they don't have to throw for a ton of yards every week.And we all know that there is no such as a QB rating. It is a PASSER RATING and it is meaningless.

 

[Evilgrin72]

Roethlisberger should be the 5th choice AT BEST. Manning, Brady, Plummer and Brees are all much more deserving. Just because Roethlisberger is having a great rookie season doesn't mean he should get the nod over players who are clearly having better seasons.

Apparently, you take the opposite viewpoint and go solely based on yards and TDs per game. Otherwise, being in the top 3 in QB rating, completion percentage and INTs, along with an undefeated record, would get Roethlisberger in.

 

[Ghost Rider]

He certainly should go. The guy hasn't lost a game yet.If you want to go strictly by stats, so be it, but I value wins and losses from a QB over just numbers.Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger should represent the AFC if the season ended today, IMO, with Brees a VERY close 4th and Plummer/Green not in the picture.

That kind of logic is screwy. This is not for the MVP award. Plummer and Brees have been much better than Roethlisberger. Yes, Roethlisberher hasn't lost a game and has had a great ROOKIE season, but football is a team sport. Bottom line is there are at least 4 QB's who have been significantly better than him this season.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Roethlisberger should be the 5th choice AT BEST. Manning, Brady, Plummer and Brees are all much more deserving. Just because Roethlisberger is having a great rookie season doesn't mean he should get the nod over players who are clearly having better seasons.

Apparently, you take the opposite viewpoint and go solely based on yards and TDs per game. Otherwise, being in the top 3 in QB rating, completion percentage and INTs, along with an undefeated record, would get Roethlisberger in.

Again, THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A QB RATING. It is a passer rating and anyone who knows anything knows it is a meaningless number.How about sacks allowed? Plummer has only been sacked 7 times in 10 games?! A lot of that has to do with Denver's great O-Line, but a lot of also has to do with Plummer's great ability to avoid the rush and scramble and make plays. That has to count for something too.

 

[Evilgrin72]

He certainly should go. The guy hasn't lost a game yet.If you want to go strictly by stats, so be it, but I value wins and losses from a QB over just numbers.Manning, Brady, and Roethlisberger should represent the AFC if the season ended today, IMO, with Brees a VERY close 4th and Plummer/Green not in the picture.

That kind of logic is screwy. This is not for the MVP award. Plummer and Brees have been much better than Roethlisberger. Yes, Roethlisberher hasn't lost a game and has had a great ROOKIE season, but football is a team sport. Bottom line is there are at least 4 QB's who have been significantly better than him this season.

That all depends on what you see as better. I'll take a guy who manages the offense effectively, goes 16-0 with 3,000 yards, 20 TD and 5 INT over a guy who throws for 4,000 yards, 30 TD and 15 INT and goes 10-6. It's obvious that we simp,y value yards and TDs differently, thats all.I really don't think the logic is "screwy" however, and really, what is the difference between MVP and Pro Bowl consideration? The last I checked, the Pro Bowl voting is not mandated to be driven on glamour stats. Kordell Stewart made the Pro Bowl a few years ago for the Steelers because he went 13-3...he only had about 3,000 yards and 17 TDs. Obviously, it wasn't the stats that got him in.

 

[cracKer]

I think Manning, Plummer and Brady (with Brees replacing either Plummer or Brady depending on how the season rounds out)The Chiefs suck, taking Green and his borderline numbers out of the mix. Roethlisberger doesn't have the stats to match up with these other guys and their teams success.We're talking 9-1 v. 7-3 right now with six games still to play. If Pitt runs the table, Roeth will obviously receive more consideration because of his teams success, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Ghost Rider]

That all depends on what you see as better. I'll take a guy who manages the offense effectively, goes 16-0 with 3,000 yards, 20 TD and 5 INT over a guy who throws for 4,000 yards, 30 TD and 15 INT and goes 10-6. It's obvious that we simp,y value yards and TDs differently, thats all.I really don't think the logic is "screwy" however, and really, what is the difference between MVP and Pro Bowl consideration? The last I checked, the Pro Bowl voting is not mandated to be driven on glamour stats. Kordell Stewart made the Pro Bowl a few years ago for the Steelers because he went 13-3...he only had about 3,000 yards and 17 TDs. Obviously, it wasn't the stats that got him in.

So by your logic, Michael Vick should be in the Pro Bowl right now over Culpepper or Favre since Atlanta has a better record than Minnesota or Green Bay. Vick's numbers are pretty average across the board, but since his TEAM is better, he is more deserving than QB's on teams that not quite as good? Is that what you are saying?And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

 

[swandown]

I wasn't going to put Green so high, but after comparing all the QBs in 5 major statistical categories, Green had the 2nd best score to Brees:

       QBRat. Comp.%  Y/G    TD/G   INT/G  AVG.Brees    1      3      4      2      1      2.2Green    3      2      1      4      4      2.8Big Ben  2      1      5      5      2      3.0Brady    4      4      3      3      3      3.4Plummer  5      5      2      1      5      3.6

That chart is misleading. Of course, Green is going to be first in yards per game because the Chiefs are always having to play catch-up because of their horrible defense.

So?Green should be penalized for something he has little control over? Yet Roethlisberger and Brady should be rewarded for the same reason?

The Pro Bowl should be about what you DID, not what "you could have done if your team had let you throw more".

 

[Evilgrin72]

Again, THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A QB RATING. It is a passer rating and anyone who knows anything knows it is a meaningless number.

Whatever you want to call it, I don't find it meaningless. I don't think it's as important as some do, but it is a mathematical formula which quantifies a QBs efficiency in the passing game. As such, I feel it has some merit. I tend to value stats like passer rating, INTs, and completion percentage more than yards and TDs sometimes. In a case like Roethlisberger's, he's not going to post dazzling numbers in those categories because Pittsburgh runs the ball more than just about any other team. However, Ben is counted on to efficiently manage the offense, not turn the ball over, and sustain drives with critical 3rd down passes. He has done a stellar job of this. Because he doesn't post the stats some other QBs do does not mean he is less valuable.

 

[Evilgrin72]

That all depends on what you see as better.  I'll take a guy who manages the offense effectively, goes 16-0 with 3,000 yards, 20 TD and 5 INT over a guy who throws for 4,000 yards, 30 TD and 15 INT and goes 10-6.  It's obvious that we simp,y value yards and TDs differently, thats all.I really don't think the logic is "screwy" however, and really, what is the difference between MVP and Pro Bowl consideration?  The last I checked, the Pro Bowl voting is not mandated to be driven on glamour stats.  Kordell Stewart made the Pro Bowl a few years ago for the Steelers because he went 13-3...he only had about 3,000 yards and 17 TDs.  Obviously, it wasn't the stats that got him in.

So by your logic, Michael Vick should be in the Pro Bowl right now over Culpepper or Favre since Atlanta has a better record than Minnesota or Green Bay. Vick's numbers are pretty average across the board, but since his TEAM is better, he is more deserving than QB's on teams that not quite as good? Is that what you are saying?And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

Not necessarily. The Steelers have a better record than the Colts, but I am not advocating Roethlisberger beating out Manning. I'm saying a team's record should factor into the selection as much as stats do, while you seem to be saying it should be based almost solely on numbers.

 

[cracKer]

How about sacks allowed? Plummer has only been sacked 7 times in 10 games?! A lot of that has to do with Denver's great O-Line, but a lot of also has to do with Plummer's great ability to avoid the rush and scramble and make plays. That has to count for something too.

As a static number, it does not. Joey Harrington had been sacked less than 20 times combined over his first two seasons but was putting up numbers comparable to the worst QBs in the history of the game. This year, he's been sacked 26 times but is playing the best football of his young career.

 

[Ghost Rider]

So?

Green should be penalized for something he has little control over? Yet Roethlisberger and Brady should be rewarded for the same reason?

The Pro Bowl should be about what you DID, not what "you could have done if your team had let you throw more".

I am not saying Green should be penalized. I am saying his stats are somewhat inflated by the team he plays on. Manning, Brees, Plummer and Brady all have a TD to INT ratio of more than 2-1. Green's is 15-9, which is pretty good, but that is a pace for about 24 TD's and 15 INT's, which is not outstanding.

 

[Evilgrin72]

And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

Roethlisberger is on pace to have gone 16-0 with a 2-1 TD to INT ratio had he played a whole season, which would be good enough for me. Obviously, if his play drops precipitously in the next few weeks, I'd say he was no longer worthy, but at his current rate of play, I feel he belongs.

 

[jwvdcw]

I'd rank it like this right now:1.Manning(absolute lock even with an injury)2.Brees(lock barring injury)Then things get interesting. Its very close for the third spot, but right now I'd rank them like this:3.Big Ben4.Brady5.Plummer

 

[Ghost Rider]

Again, THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS A QB RATING. It is a passer rating and anyone who knows anything knows it is a meaningless number.

Whatever you want to call it, I don't find it meaningless. I don't think it's as important as some do, but it is a mathematical formula which quantifies a QBs efficiency in the passing game. As such, I feel it has some merit. I tend to value stats like passer rating, INTs, and completion percentage more than yards and TDs sometimes. In a case like Roethlisberger's, he's not going to post dazzling numbers in those categories because Pittsburgh runs the ball more than just about any other team. However, Ben is counted on to efficiently manage the offense, not turn the ball over, and sustain drives with critical 3rd down passes. He has done a stellar job of this. Because he doesn't post the stats some other QBs do does not mean he is less valuable.

Again, it is not about value. If you want to factor in the useless passer rating, that is your right, but I do not. I noticed you didn't address my comments on sacks allowed? Brees and Plummer are both much better at not being sacked than Roethlisberger.

 

[Ghost Rider]

How about sacks allowed? Plummer has only been sacked 7 times in 10 games?! A lot of that has to do with Denver's great O-Line, but a lot of also has to do with Plummer's great ability to avoid the rush and scramble and make plays. That has to count for something too.

As a static number, it does not. Joey Harrington had been sacked less than 20 times combined over his first two seasons but was putting up numbers comparable to the worst QBs in the history of the game. This year, he's been sacked 26 times but is playing the best football of his young career.

Bad example. Guys like Brees and Plummer are playing great and putting up nice numbers, while also not getting sacked a lot. Brees has only been sacked 11 times this season. Plummer has 7 times.

 

[jwvdcw]

That all depends on what you see as better.  I'll take a guy who manages the offense effectively, goes 16-0 with 3,000 yards, 20 TD and 5 INT over a guy who throws for 4,000 yards, 30 TD and 15 INT and goes 10-6.  It's obvious that we simp,y value yards and TDs differently, thats all.I really don't think the logic is "screwy" however, and really, what is the difference between MVP and Pro Bowl consideration?  The last I checked, the Pro Bowl voting is not mandated to be driven on glamour stats.  Kordell Stewart made the Pro Bowl a few years ago for the Steelers because he went 13-3...he only had about 3,000 yards and 17 TDs.  Obviously, it wasn't the stats that got him in.

So by your logic, Michael Vick should be in the Pro Bowl right now over Culpepper or Favre since Atlanta has a better record than Minnesota or Green Bay. Vick's numbers are pretty average across the board, but since his TEAM is better, he is more deserving than QB's on teams that not quite as good? Is that what you are saying?And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

Vick's team is not better.Atlanta was 2-10 I think last year without Vick(then they went 3-1 once he returned to the lineup)...they were a bad team.Minnesota has great talent on offense and would be at least a 7 win team even without Culpepper(Frerotte has proven that he can come in and throw for 300 and 2 TDs in that awesome offense).Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=116454

 

[Ghost Rider]

And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

Roethlisberger is on pace to have gone 16-0 with a 2-1 TD to INT ratio had he played a whole season, which would be good enough for me. Obviously, if his play drops precipitously in the next few weeks, I'd say he was no longer worthy, but at his current rate of play, I feel he belongs.

His play has already started tailing off. He didn't play very well against the Bengals last week. They won because of their running game and their defense. Like I said before, Roethlisberger is good and is going to be a great QB in the future, but I just don't feel he deserves to go over QB's like Brady, Plummer or Brees, who have all posted better numbers(which are not everything, I know that) and are having great team success this season.

 

[Evilgrin72]

I noticed you didn't address my comments on sacks allowed? Brees and Plummer are both much better at not being sacked than Roethlisberger.

Sorry, I didn't know I was required to address every single point made. Yes, it should count for something, and I agree those guys have been better at avoiding sacks than Roethlisberger. It also isn't all on the QB. Pass blocking has something to do with it. The ability of your WRs to get open has something to do with it. The defensive schemes being employed against you has something to do with it. The quality of the pass rush of the team a guy is playing against has something to do with it. There are a lot of "x" factors involved.That said, yes, I would say it's one more factor to consider. However, I don't feel it should override everything else.

 

[cracKer]

Bad example. Guys like Brees and Plummer are playing great and putting up nice numbers, while also not getting sacked a lot. Brees has only been sacked 11 times this season. Plummer has 7 times.

Bad example? Plummer has 10 interceptions on the year. How many of those resulted from the same problem that plagued Harrington during his first two years? It's only a bad example because it doesn't fit exactly what you wanted to hear.

 

[Evilgrin72]

And let me know when a QB goes 16-0 with a 4-1 TD to INT ratio.

Roethlisberger is on pace to have gone 16-0 with a 2-1 TD to INT ratio had he played a whole season, which would be good enough for me. Obviously, if his play drops precipitously in the next few weeks, I'd say he was no longer worthy, but at his current rate of play, I feel he belongs.

His play has already started tailing off. He didn't play very well against the Bengals last week. They won because of their running game and their defense. Like I said before, Roethlisberger is good and is going to be a great QB in the future, but I just don't feel he deserves to go over QB's like Brady, Plummer or Brees, who have all posted better numbers(which are not everything, I know that) and are having great team success this season.

I don't consider one mediocre game to be an indicator that his play is tailing off. If it proves to be so, so be it. Like I said, if he tails off big-time, I'll admit he no longer deserves consideration. As of now, I think he should be in the mix with Manning, Brady, and Brees. We'll just agree to disagree and see how the rest of the season shakes out. I don't think Plummer and Green should be ranked above any of those four guys I mentioned at this point, though.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I noticed you didn't address my comments on sacks allowed? Brees and Plummer are both much better at not being sacked than Roethlisberger.

Sorry, I didn't know I was required to address every single point made. Yes, it should count for something, and I agree those guys have been better at avoiding sacks than Roethlisberger. It also isn't all on the QB. Pass blocking has something to do with it. The ability of your WRs to get open has something to do with it. The defensive schemes being employed against you has something to do with it. The quality of the pass rush of the team a guy is playing against has something to do with it. There are a lot of "x" factors involved.That said, yes, I would say it's one more factor to consider. However, I don't feel it should override everything else.

Yeah, and Pittsburgh has better receivers at this point than Denver does, so Roethlisberger should be better in that area as far as finding open receivers, right?

 

[bueno]

There is no doubt that players with winning teams have an edge, but I don't think the edge is big enough for Rothlisberger.Manning - obviously.Brady - I don't think he has the best physical skills, but given his achievements, how do you leave him out?The third QB will be eitherlummer - playing well and has the Broncos headed toward the playoffs.Brees - gets the nod mainly because of his elevated level of play. Who thought the Chargers would be contenders this year?Roethlisberger is averaging under 150 yds/game passing. That's not pro bowl calibre play.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bad example? Plummer has 10 interceptions on the year. How many of those resulted from the same problem that plagued Harrington during his first two years? It's only a bad example because it doesn't fit exactly what you wanted to hear.

Comparing Plummer to a scrub like Harrington is not helping your cause. Please come up with a better argument than that. Plummer has gotten better as the season has gone on and while he does have the tendency to make mistakes more than the average QB. he more than makes up for them with his positive plays, many of which are with his feet.

 

[Ghost Rider]

His play has already started tailing off. He didn't play very well against the Bengals last week. They won because of their running game and their defense. Like I said before, Roethlisberger is good and is going to be a great QB in the future, but I just don't feel he deserves to go over QB's like Brady, Plummer or Brees, who have all posted better numbers(which are not everything, I know that) and are having great team success this season.

I don't consider one mediocre game to be an indicator that his play is tailing off. If it proves to be so, so be it. Like I said, if he tails off big-time, I'll admit he no longer deserves consideration. As of now, I think he should be in the mix with Manning, Brady, and Brees. We'll just agree to disagree and see how the rest of the season shakes out. I don't think Plummer and Green should be ranked above any of those four guys I mentioned at this point, though.

I think Roethlisberger should be in the discussion, but ultimately, left out. I have already stated the reasons why.

 

[Evilgrin72]

There is no doubt that players with winning teams have an edge, but I don't think the edge is big enough for Rothlisberger.Manning - obviously.Brady - I don't think he has the best physical skills, but given his achievements, how do you leave him out?The third QB will be eitherlummer - playing well and has the Broncos headed toward the playoffs.Brees - gets the nod mainly because of his elevated level of play. Who thought the Chargers would be contenders this year?Roethlisberger is averaging under 150 yds/game passing. That's not pro bowl calibre play.

Ben doesn't average a lot of yards because the Steelers have been getting up on people early and then relying on the run to ice wins. They wouldn't be getting those early leads without Roethlisberger's accuracy and ability to avoid turnovers. Teams would also be able to stack hard against the run if they didn't respect his ability to win games with his arm.I'm going by the simple fact that the guy is 8-0 as a starter, and not only that, but has yet to be outplayed by the opposing QB in any game this season. That includes Brady and McNabb, both of whom are MVP candidates. He has been the better QB in all 8 games in which he has played, and that, to me, warrants serious Pro Bowl consideration. Again, just my opinion. If Kordell was a Pro Bowler in '01, Roethlisberger should be this year. If he doesn't make it, it's only either because the voters will be biased against a rookie, or because there is a glut of qualified candidates in the AFC this year, or both.

 

[Wingnut]

Anyone know where we can see the current vote count for the pro bowl???

 

[Evilgrin72]

His play has already started tailing off. He didn't play very well against the Bengals last week. They won because of their running game and their defense. Like I said before, Roethlisberger is good and is going to be a great QB in the future, but I just don't feel he deserves to go over QB's like Brady, Plummer or Brees, who have all posted better numbers(which are not everything, I know that) and are having great team success this season.

I don't consider one mediocre game to be an indicator that his play is tailing off. If it proves to be so, so be it. Like I said, if he tails off big-time, I'll admit he no longer deserves consideration. As of now, I think he should be in the mix with Manning, Brady, and Brees. We'll just agree to disagree and see how the rest of the season shakes out. I don't think Plummer and Green should be ranked above any of those four guys I mentioned at this point, though.

I think Roethlisberger should be in the discussion, but ultimately, left out. I have already stated the reasons why.

Fair enough. I think he should be in the discussion and ultimately be squeezed in, and have stated the reasons why. We'll just have to see how the rest of the season goes.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If Kordell was a Pro Bowler in '01, Roethlisberger should be this year.

Kordell making it in 01 means nothing in this discussion.

Teams would also be able to stack hard against the run if they didn't respect his ability to win games with his arm.

Teams stack the line against Baltimore and Jamal Lewis usually does pretty well, despite having an inept passing game. I am not comparing Boller to Roethlisberger, merely saying that a dominant offensive line can open holes for a running game no matter how good the passing game is.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Fair enough. I think he should be in the discussion and ultimately be squeezed in, and have stated the reasons why. We'll just have to see how the rest of the season goes.

Indeed. I will say I will think it will be difficult for Plummer to make it. His reputation is still a tad shaky because of his time with Arizona and surprise stories like Brees and Roethlisberger make better copy. Plummer will have to have much better numbers than Brees or Roethlisberger to make it.

 

[Evilgrin72]

Kordell making it in 01 means nothing in this discussion.

Teams stack the line against Baltimore and Jamal Lewis usually does pretty well, despite having an inept passing game. I am not comparing Boller to Roethlisberger, merely saying that a dominant offensive line can open holes for a running game no matter how good the passing game is.

Kordell making it in '01 simply illustrates that winning can carry you in over statistical excellence, that's all. Otherwise, it does not pertain.

You're exactly right about Baltimore. That's the point I am making. Teams DON'T stack against the run against Pittsburgh like they do against Baltimore, because unlike Boller, Roethlisberger LHUCKS (commands respect) from opposing defenses due to his ability to throw. That, along with the ability to avoid turnovers, is what makes him valuable in a run-first offense. That's something stats do not quantify, which is why I am more apt to lean towards W-L than numbers.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I love watching Roethlisberger do everything the Steelers have asked him to do. Whether his numbers show it or not, he's performing as well as any QB in the league, although I think the loss of Burress is going to have a significant effect on his production for this week. His absense is a big part of why he struggled last week in my opinion.

While there's very little doubt in my mind that he's capable of leading a spread offense throwing to Burress, Ward, and Randle El, he just hasn't been asked to do it because of their dominant running game and defense. If he'd be the QB on a team with the Colts' defense, his passing numbers would be far better. If you want to penalize Ben for that, so be it.

Yards per attempt -

Manning 9.14

Green 8.41

Roethlisberger 8.27

Brady 7.95

Plummer 7.55

Brees 7.54

 

[Hendo]

Minnesota has great talent on offense and would be at least a 7 win team even without Culpepper(Frerotte has proven that he can come in and throw for 300 and 2 TDs in that awesome offense).

um... maybe with Moss but Culpepper can put up 300 4+ without him and leads that team with or without Moss. remember what u say hes just average

 

[Evilgrin72]

Fair enough. I think he should be in the discussion and ultimately be squeezed in, and have stated the reasons why. We'll just have to see how the rest of the season goes.

Indeed. I will say I will think it will be difficult for Plummer to make it. His reputation is still a tad shaky because of his time with Arizona and surprise stories like Brees and Roethlisberger make better copy. Plummer will have to have much better numbers than Brees or Roethlisberger to make it.

Good observation, and VERY true.

 

[babydemon90]

Personally, I think Brees should be the #2 selection, no question.The question is for #3 - Brady/Roeth/Plummer

 

[cracKer]

2001 Pro Bowl QBsKordell Stewart: 13-3 Steelers, 60.2% passing, 14/11-3109 (7.0 YPA), 537-5 rushingTom Brady: 11-5 Patriots, 63.9% passing, 18/12-2843 (6.9 YPA), 43-0 rushingRich Gannon: 10-6 Raiders, 65.8% passing, 27/9-3828 (7.0 YPA), 231-2 rushingLeft out...Peyton Manning: 6-10 Colts, 62.7% passing, 26/23-4131 (7.6 YPA), 157-4 rushingSteve McNair: 7-9 Titans, 61.3% passing, 21/12-3350 (7.8 YPA), 414-5 rushingTrent Green: 6-10 Chiefs, 56.6 % passing, 17/24-3783 (7.2 YPA), 158-0 rushingMcNair had a great year, statistically, but his team wasn't very good. Manning's year would've been incredible had it not been for the interceptions, and the fact that the Colts weren't very good. The depth at QB this year in the AFC is much better than it was in 2001. All of the QBs mentioned above (Manning, Brees, Plummer, Brady, Green, Roethlisberger) appear to be deserving, but final record will play a huge part in determining the invitations to Hawaii (aside from the Colts, who could finish 8-8 and it wouldn't matter)

 

[Ghost Rider]

Personally, I think Brees should be the #2 selection, no question.The question is for #3 - Brady/Roeth/Plummer

I agree. I would say Brady or Plummer should be the 3rd choice.

 

[Warpig]

I don't think he makes it simply because of the talent of the other QB's. You got Peyton, Culpepper, McNabb, Brady, Plummer, Favre, Bulger...etc. Yes the kid is 9-0 as a starter but he hasn't put up the stats worthy of the pro bowl. He's getting all the hype because he's a rookie and he's smart...not typical rookie play. I have the guy in my dynasty league but I don't think he's put up the numbers worthy of the pro bowl. He's too efficient.

 

[panther skinner]

#1 Manning ( best in football)#2 Brees ( great year and helped turn a loser into a winner)#3 Plummer (great year, does it all)Unless Plummer falls apart and turns into the old Cards jake he should be in the pro bowl ahead of Brady, Green and Big Ben

 

[swandown]

Ben doesn't average a lot of yards because the Steelers have been getting up on people early and then relying on the run to ice wins.

And how exactly is this argument supposed to sway people? "Sure, his stats aren't as good as the other guys....but....ummmm....they would have been better if he'd thrown the ball more!" Roethlisberger is a great team leader and game manager and probably even a great QB. But until the guy throw for more than 176 yards per game, he doesn't deserve to make a Pro Bowl.

You don't make a Pro Bowl based on your potential stats.

I'm going by the simple fact that the guy is 8-0 as a starter

Two words: Mike Kruczek.

Kordell was a Pro Bowler in '01, Roethlisberger should be this year.

Including his rushing yards, Kordell was responsible for 228 yards per game that year. Roethlisberger is averaging 187 total yards per game and isn't even on pace to eclipse Kordell's 3100 passing yards.

 

[jwvdcw]

Minnesota has great talent on offense and would be at least a 7 win team even without Culpepper(Frerotte has proven that he can come in and throw for 300 and 2 TDs in that awesome offense).

um... maybe with Moss but Culpepper can put up 300 4+ without him and leads that team with or without Moss. remember what u say hes just average

Sure, Culpepper CAN put up that without him, but he only actually WILL put that up without him about once every three games or so, while with him the QB puts that up EVERY SINGLE GAME.But stats aren't even whats really important..wins and losses are. That team is much better with Moss.Regardless of that...I think you'll agree with me that the Vikings would at least do better than 2-10 without Culpepper, which is how bad the Falcons were without Vick.

 

[Bojang0301]

Pro Bowl QB's are about winning and hype... Roth has both.

 

[Traders2001]

Why .OK he won all his games but really had 2 good games . The other gane he just played good enough not to lose.Not even close to a Pro Bowl.