Roethlisburger Joins Manning and Brady at the top (1 Viewer)

[SeniorVBDStudent]

NFL, not fantasy, tiers for QB

Before this year:

I. Manning and Brady

II. Roeth, McNabb

III. Brees, Romo

IV. Rivers et. al.

After this year:

I. Manning, Brady, Roeth

II. McNabb, Brees

III. Rivers, Romo

IV. et. al.

While in a different system than Manning or Brady, Ben has attributes they don't (scrambling and associated playmaking). Ben has 2 rings, and therefore by definition should be viewed as an equal to Manning and Brady, not career wise yet, but as far as who is at the "top of the heap" currently.

As they say, QBs get too much blame or too much credit, but Ben has sufficient body of work to raise him in the rankings.

Great superbowl; great win.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I would think Brees is at least one and probably two tiers above McNabb

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Ben has 2 rings

No, the Pittsburgh Steelers have 2 rings. Mostly on the back of their defense.It's great that he's a clutch player that is great at the end of the game. But with a normal defense, he doesn't get a chance to make those plays at the end of the game, because they would've been down by 2-3 scores at that point. With 3 minutes left in this game, Pitt's defense had scored almost as many points as Arizona's offense all on its own. Without that luxury, Big Ben's performance isn't enough to even get an opportunity to win it at the end, as is fairly par for the course with the Steelers against good teams.You put any of those other QBs you listed with that defense, and they probably "win" two super bowls as well.Big Ben is a great NFL QB. But in the same tier as Manning and Brady? No way. You give either of those guys that kind of defense performance against the Cardinals and they win going away.It's great to be clutch. It's great to "make the plays when you have to". But to be in that top tier there's more to it than JUST that. And without that defense, we'd never even know that he was Mr. Clutch anyway.Look at all those other QBs you listed, and ask if you would rather that team have that QB and a mediocre defense, or a mediocre QB and whatever defense they already have. For every single one of them you'd be better off taking the mediocre defense and that QB (for some of them it would even be an improvement). Meanwhile, you'd have to be crazy to give up Pitt's defense in order to keep Big Ben.

 

[brutha]

also Dilfer > Marino

teams win titles, not individuals.

Ben is good but hardly at Brady or Manning's level.

edit - fbg said it better

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Ben has 2 rings

No, the Pittsburgh Steelers have 2 rings. Mostly on the back of their defense.It's great that he's a clutch player that is great at the end of the game. But with a normal defense, he doesn't get a chance to make those plays at the end of the game, because they would've been down by 2-3 scores at that point. With 3 minutes left in this game, Pitt's defense had scored almost as many points as Arizona's offense all on its own. Without that luxury, Big Ben's performance isn't enough to even get an opportunity to win it at the end, as is fairly par for the course with the Steelers against good teams.

You put any of those other QBs you listed with that defense, and they probably "win" two super bowls as well.

Big Ben is a great NFL QB. But in the same tier as Manning and Brady? No way. You give either of those guys that kind of defense performance against the Cardinals and they win going away.

It's great to be clutch. It's great to "make the plays when you have to". But to be in that top tier there's more to it than JUST that. And without that defense, we'd never even know that he was Mr. Clutch anyway.

Look at all those other QBs you listed, and ask if you would rather that team have that QB and a mediocre defense, or a mediocre QB and whatever defense they already have. For every single one of them you'd be better off taking the mediocre defense and that QB (for some of them it would even be an improvement). Meanwhile, you'd have to be crazy to give up Pitt's defense in order to keep Big Ben.

McNabb: 2.5Brees: 1.5

Rivers: 1.25

Romo 0.5

My best guesses above.

Guessing games aside, Roethlisberger has done it, and they haven't.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.

He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.

But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.

Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?

This quarterback was Rex Grossman.

Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?This quarterback was Rex Grossman.Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

I hope you "get" that my opinion is based on what happened this year and in Ben's career to date, and not on yesterday's game(?).Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

No, the Pittsburgh Steelers have 2 rings. Mostly on the back of their defense.It's great that he's a clutch player that is great at the end of the game. But with a normal defense, he doesn't get a chance to make those plays at the end of the game, because they would've been down by 2-3 scores at that point. With 3 minutes left in this game, Pitt's defense had scored almost as many points as Arizona's offense all on its own. Without that luxury, Big Ben's performance isn't enough to even get an opportunity to win it at the end, as is fairly par for the course with the Steelers against good teams.

You are assuming the game plays out the exact same way with a normal defense. That isn't the case. When the Steelers needed their QB to step up and have a great drive, he led them. Beyond that, there were numerous times in that game Roethlisberger avoid the pass rush and made a play happen.Don't forget BR drove the Steelers down the field for a game winning touchdown in Baltimore earlier this year when the team needed a score.

You put any of those other QBs you listed with that defense, and they probably "win" two super bowls as well.

Didn't McNabb have a chance in the Super Bowl for a game winning drive and barf all over the field?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?This quarterback was Rex Grossman.Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

I hope you "get" that my opinion is based on what happened this year and in Ben's career to date, and not on yesterday's game(?).Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

Yesterday was just a microcosm of Ben's career to date. Ben plays great at times, which is enough because the Pittsburgh defense plays great all the time.

 

[Sheriff66]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.

He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.

But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.

Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?

This quarterback was Rex Grossman.

Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

I hope you "get" that my opinion is based on what happened this year and in Ben's career to date, and not on yesterday's game(?).Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

Yesterday was just a microcosm of Ben's career to date. Ben plays great at times, which is enough because the Pittsburgh defense plays great all the time.

The Pittsburgh defense has traditioanlly been excellent, from the Steel curtain right on through today. So, why is it that it took 26 years from the Steelers' last Super Bowl win until XL?Roethlisberger wasn't just good yesterday, he was fantastic. One of the better SB performances I've seen from a QB. Hardly any of his throws were poor.. the only one that I can remember that wasn't good was the long ball to Washington that was a little underthrown and allowed Cromartie to catch up and knock it away. I'm sure there were 1-2 others, but the INT was batted up in the air at the line..it wasn't a bad throw, and he made a number of terrific throws. Also kept at least 5 plays alive where almost every other QB in the league would have taken a sack or had to throw the ball away.

I'd still put Ben behind a healthy Brady and Manning, but this game reaffirms my belief that I'd take him over anyone else. And in this particular game, the way it played out, with the pressure he faced, I'm not sure either of those two would have won that game last night.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

And at 26, he really just now beginning to enter his prime as a QB.

 

[3C's]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.

He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.

But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.

Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?

This quarterback was Rex Grossman.

Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

Should have been MVP!

 

[djcolts]

I thought Big Ben was incredible all game long. The problem was that his OL struggled all game long, and there was very little running game, which is why the offense struggled at times. His work in the pocket was all-universe yesterday - and he made some big, big throws (one of them nullified by the holding call in the end zone). He's in the discussion for top QB in the league (because we don't know how Brady will be post-injury) - and I'm saying this as a Colts fan.

 

[Bogeys]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.

He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.

But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.

Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?

This quarterback was Rex Grossman.

Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

I hope you "get" that my opinion is based on what happened this year and in Ben's career to date, and not on yesterday's game(?).Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

Yesterday was just a microcosm of Ben's career to date. Ben plays great at times, which is enough because the Pittsburgh defense plays great all the time.

The Pittsburgh defense has traditioanlly been excellent, from the Steel curtain right on through today. So, why is it that it took 26 years from the Steelers' last Super Bowl win until XL?Roethlisberger wasn't just good yesterday, he was fantastic. One of the better SB performances I've seen from a QB. Hardly any of his throws were poor.. the only one that I can remember that wasn't good was the long ball to Washington that was a little underthrown and allowed Cromartie to catch up and knock it away. I'm sure there were 1-2 others, but the INT was batted up in the air at the line..it wasn't a bad throw, and he made a number of terrific throws. Also kept at least 5 plays alive where almost every other QB in the league would have taken a sack or had to throw the ball away.

I'd still put Ben behind a healthy Brady and Manning, but this game reaffirms my belief that I'd take him over anyone else. And in this particular game, the way it played out, with the pressure he faced, I'm not sure either of those two would have won that game last night.

I think it was the ESPN crew that asked BR in the post-game if he should now be mentioned in the same tier as these guys instead of the one below them and BR said he was fine where he was (as he clutched the game ball)

 

[Bogeys]

I thought Big Ben was incredible all game long. The problem was that his OL struggled all game long, and there was very little running game, which is why the offense struggled at times. His work in the pocket was all-universe yesterday - and he made some big, big throws (one of them nullified by the holding call in the end zone). He's in the discussion for top QB in the league (because we don't know how Brady will be post-injury) - and I'm saying this as a Colts fan.

Ben kept saying how great the OL played in every interview last night, he was really giving them tons of credit.

 

[todisco1]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

And at 26, he really just now beginning to enter his prime as a QB.

Yup, he is going to get BETTER.The O-Line was not good last night IMO (and not very good all year). With an improved line I think he's going to be simply great to watch.

 

[Loopdog]

Ben has been complimenting the oline all season long, every chance he gets. He is a great leader, you can just see it that guys respect the hell out of him. That's what a QB is. I wish Romo would take some lessons from Ben on how to lead men.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Brady deserves his own tier at the top, but I'd take Ben over Manning. Better passer rating in the playoffs (86.5 / 84.9) and much better record (8-2 / 7-8). Manning has his ring, but he has also lost six times in the opening round of the playoffs.

 

[CrossEyed]

Give Ben the olines that Manning and Brady has had and the stats would be very similar.

I can't believe that people don't recognize that he played behind possibly the worst oline in the NFL this season.

 

[Uber]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

Ben kept saying how great the OL played in every interview last night, he was really giving them tons of credit.

I noticed that as well and thought, "Good leadership, Ben." Way to prop up the guys that were the weakest link on the team the entire season and just about cost them the "one for the other thumb." The OL needed the confidence boost, because if BR wasn't going to say nice things about them, no one was going to say anything at all.The interior line play was horrible, with just about as many holding calls against Hartwig-Stapleton-Komeatu as there were against the Card's tackles.After reading thread upon thread about BR holding the ball too long, it's due in large part to him scrambling around because the pocket is in a continuous state of collapse. If he threw the ball away every time he was trying to avoid the rush, the Steelers would have led the league in 3-n-outs and would have been watching the SB on TV.Good year for BR.Now can we please take Unger or Mack at pick #32?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

Inasmuch as Dilfer was in the stadium, yes. Otherwise, no.

 

[Steel Dillo]

You put any of those other QBs you listed with that defense, and they probably "win" two super bowls as well.

Give Ben their offense lines and their weapons (Moss/Welker) & (Harrison/Wayne/Clark) and he probably "win" those Super Bowl anyway.

 

[todisco1]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

lol

 

[Uber]

You put any of those other QBs you listed with that defense, and they probably "win" two super bowls as well.

Give Ben their offense lines and their weapons (Moss/Welker) & (Harrison/Wayne/Clark) and he probably "win" those Super Bowl anyway.

Yeah, there's definitely an argument to be made that Brady's Super Bowls were all based on having Moss/Welker.

 

[3C's]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

stinky bait

 

[CrossEyed]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

Brilliant.

 

[FantasyTrader]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

And at 26, he really just now beginning to enter his prime as a QB.

Yup, he is going to get BETTER.The O-Line was not good last night IMO (and not very good all year). With an improved line I think he's going to be simply great to watch.

Disagree. I believe he's a good QB that excels under pressure. I've always been impressed by his awareness of almost any game situation and almost never makes that boneheaded throw that leaves you shaking your head. But he's nowhere near the best pure QB in that game...at all. I think some here are severely underestimating the luxury that's afforded to Ben from a downright dominant defense that rarely has him playing with a long field or from behind and NEVER from a big hole. Again, I think he's a good QB but he holds onto the ball too long, has only a slighly better than average level of anticipation and I wouldn't put him in the top 10 in the league throwing the deep ball. It hangs entirely too much. When the game is on the line, gimme Ben over everyone but Brady or Manning. The other 55 minutes? Cutler. Rivers. McNabb. Romo. Brees. Hell even Hasselbeck would all be in line ahead of Ben with that D and supporting cast.

 

[HellToupee]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

Thats a stupid statement

 

[David Yudkin]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

 

[HellToupee]

just for starters Dilfer's best completion % in a season is .1 above Ben's worst. Dilfer's career QB rating is 5 points below Ben's worst season

 

[HellToupee]

Ben's isn't Brady or Peyton but he's the next best thing

 

[Short Corner]

In 2006, an unnamed quarterback led his team to the Super Bowl with the help of his defense.He "led" the team to a remarkable 13-3 regular season record. During that time, he led three game winning drives in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter in four opportunities. Then the 2nd round of the playoffs came around, and things got really tough. The running backs averaged three yards per carry. The kick return game averaged two yards per punt return and 17 yards per kick return, while fumbling twice.But this quarterback, he threw the team on his back, and led them down the field for a game winning drive in overtime, on his way to leading his team to the Super Bowl.Truly one of the greatest, guttiest performances of all-time, right?This quarterback was Rex Grossman.Lots of guys "win" with great defenses backing them up.

I hope you "get" that my opinion is based on what happened this year and in Ben's career to date, and not on yesterday's game(?).Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

So you agree that Dilfer > Marino ?

 

[Adebisi]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I won't call this "irrelevant," but I will point out that you have to fall behind first in order to come back later. I don't know how many comebacks Tom Brady engineered in 2007, but I would guess it wasn't very many - because he put up a ridiculous amount of points in the first 45 minutes, so he didn't have to make many dramatic comebacks in the last 15. Hopefully you see my point here.Ben is one of the best QBs in the league right now, but he's not quite on that top tier with Brady and Manning.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Give Ben the olines that Manning and Brady has had and the stats would be very similar.I can't believe that people don't recognize that he played behind possibly the worst oline in the NFL this season.

Ha.This is a joke...If BR had that line he'd still hold the ball too long trying to make those crazy plays. Some turn out as heroic plays and the rest as sacks. He doesnt release the ball fast enough and its not the offensive lines fault its his. Its the same reason Vick used to get sacked alot cause he couldnt get rid of the ball fast enough and tried to hard to make the big play. Hes the reason the Oline looks bad...

 

[H.K.]

Grossman lost. Rings matter (see, for example, McNabb).

So you agree that Dilfer > Marino ?

Marino lost one playoff game in his career when he wasn't intercepted....but he won four when he was picked at least once. In his 9 other playoff lossses he was picked 19 times.Dilfer threw one int in the four games Baltimore won to get his ring. Marino never had a consecutive four game stretch when he was intercepted that few times in the playoffs.

 

[HellToupee]

Give Ben the olines that Manning and Brady has had and the stats would be very similar.I can't believe that people don't recognize that he played behind possibly the worst oline in the NFL this season.

Ha.This is a joke...If BR had that line he'd still hold the ball too long trying to make those crazy plays. Some turn out as heroic plays and the rest as sacks. He doesnt release the ball fast enough and its not the offensive lines fault its his. Its the same reason Vick used to get sacked alot cause he couldnt get rid of the ball fast enough and tried to hard to make the big play. Hes the reason the Oline looks bad...

daft analysis

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Brady deserves his own tier at the top, but I'd take Ben over Manning. Better passer rating in the playoffs (86.5 / 84.9) and much better record (8-2 / 7-8). Manning has his ring, but he has also lost six times in the opening round of the playoffs.

Actually the three have very similar postseason QB ratings:Brady 88.0Roethlisberger 87.2Manning 84.9But Ben is entering the prime of his career, so there is hope that he will join Brady with 3 SB rings. The Steelers have averaged nearly 27 points per game in his 10 playoff games. The two playoff games they've lost in his career were by scores of 31-29 and 41-27. I'd also point to the Steelers Super Bowl XL playoff run to those that believe the Steelers are all D. Ben threw 7 TD to 1 INT in the three games prior to Super Bowl XL.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

Not last night.

 

[David Yudkin]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

Not last night.

I believe I pointed that out.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

Not last night.

nor the Jacksonville playoff game last year.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

Not last night.

I believe I pointed that out.

I know.. I'm not arguing with you. It's just that the last time the Steelers won it all, all I heard about was how Roethlisberger stunk the joint out on the biggest stage, and no one seemed to really care that he was outstanding in 3 playoff games leading up to it. This time, he came up huge when the stakes were the highest after the defense carried the team most of the way here.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

6 4th quarter comebacks this year and 19 in his career, I would say that puts him right up there with Brady and Manning, when the game is on the line the guy has ice water in his veins.

I count 4 games this year where Roethlisberger led scoring drives on the final possession late in the game to take the lead and win (JAX, SD, BAL, ARI). There was an another OT game against BAL and a defensive wave that beat DAL, neither of which I would put on Big Ben for rallying to win (although technically maybe you can).I'll give him props for coming back to win last night and several other times in his career, but it's the PIT D that is winning more games than Roethlisberger is.

Not last night.

nor the Jacksonville playoff game last year.

Yep. He was bad in the first half of that game, but incredible in the second.

 

[Jason Wood]

For all those folks pointing to Pittsburgh's defense as a reason to discredit his legacy, I would ask you to turn your attention to his offensive line; which was among the worst in the history of Super Bowl champs. The fact this guy got destroyed game after game and still managed to play that way, and make plays in the biggest drive of his life, makes discrediting what this kid has accomplished pretty silly.

 

[David Yudkin]

For all those folks pointing to Pittsburgh's defense as a reason to discredit his legacy, I would ask you to turn your attention to his offensive line; which was among the worst in the history of Super Bowl champs. The fact this guy got destroyed game after game and still managed to play that way, and make plays in the biggest drive of his life, makes discrediting what this kid has accomplished pretty silly.

I give him big ups for a stellar career to date, and several times last night he pulled a rabbit out of a hat to keep drives alive and get in position for PIT to win. You can't fault him for not needing to win 52-3 most games, and he certainly for the most part has been there when his number was called. His OL has been at best below average, but I still feel that his defense bails him out more often than not and with an average defense Big Ben would not be in a position to win anywhere near as many games as the Steelers have. Again, not his fault his tam has played (normally) smash mouth D that has turned games their way. If Warner tried a corner fade to Fitzgerald at the end of the first half instead of a slant in to Boldin, I doubt we'd even have this thread right now as IMO that was the game. Even if Warner overthrows Fitz and they kick a game tying FG right before the half, that 10 point swing altered the entire course of the game. We'll never know what could have happened and can only judge by what did happen. Credit Ben for a big time performance, but IMO the PIT D still had an equal say in the outcome.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

For all those folks pointing to Pittsburgh's defense as a reason to discredit his legacy, I would ask you to turn your attention to his offensive line; which was among the worst in the history of Super Bowl champs. The fact this guy got destroyed game after game and still managed to play that way, and make plays in the biggest drive of his life, makes discrediting what this kid has accomplished pretty silly.

I give him big ups for a stellar career to date, and several times last night he pulled a rabbit out of a hat to keep drives alive and get in position for PIT to win. You can't fault him for not needing to win 52-3 most games, and he certainly for the most part has been there when his number was called. His OL has been at best below average, but I still feel that his defense bails him out more often than not and with an average defense Big Ben would not be in a position to win anywhere near as many games as the Steelers have. Again, not his fault his tam has played (normally) smash mouth D that has turned games their way. If Warner tried a corner fade to Fitzgerald at the end of the first half instead of a slant in to Boldin, I doubt we'd even have this thread right now as IMO that was the game. Even if Warner overthrows Fitz and they kick a game tying FG right before the half, that 10 point swing altered the entire course of the game. We'll never know what could have happened and can only judge by what did happen. Credit Ben for a big time performance, but IMO the PIT D still had an equal say in the outcome.

Couldn't we shuffle the cards similarly for Tom Brady's Super Bowl wins that all came by 3 points. Were it not for Ty Law's INT TD against STL the Pats lose. Were it not for McNabb's 3 picks the Pats may lose that game too. Were it not for the best kicker that's ever played Brady may not even be a Super Bowl winner.

 

[FUBAR]

After this year:I. Manning, Brady, RoethII. McNabb, BreesIII. Rivers, RomoIV. et. al.

Not to nitpick, but Rivers is at least II, probably I. Well above Romo IMO.

 

[Sheriff66]

Ben is alot closer to Dilfer then he is to Manning or Brady.

Poor attempt at