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Roy Williams > Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter botabu
- Start date
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I agree.botabu said:
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I have those three very closely ranked and would have a hard time determining one ahead of another for the future.
Roy Williams - Has a great offensive system for wideouts...for now. I could see Martz running out on the team after this season, especially if the Lion's do not progress. Roy has the physical features you want out of a WR; size, speed, and the ability to make the highlight reel grab. He does have lapses of concentration and hopefully another Martz School of Offense Offseason helps him make another step forward.
Calvin Johnson - Has the tools you dream about when creating a WR on Madden. He is ridiculously equipped. But he is a rookie, and we have seen so-called "shoe-ins" not live up to expectations.
Andre Johnson - Another physical freak who has put up pretty darn good numbers since his arrival on arguably the worst offensive team over the last 4-5 years. I think his statistical value can only go up.
As of right now: Roy, Dre, Calvin
Roy Williams - Has a great offensive system for wideouts...for now. I could see Martz running out on the team after this season, especially if the Lion's do not progress. Roy has the physical features you want out of a WR; size, speed, and the ability to make the highlight reel grab. He does have lapses of concentration and hopefully another Martz School of Offense Offseason helps him make another step forward.
Calvin Johnson - Has the tools you dream about when creating a WR on Madden. He is ridiculously equipped. But he is a rookie, and we have seen so-called "shoe-ins" not live up to expectations.
Andre Johnson - Another physical freak who has put up pretty darn good numbers since his arrival on arguably the worst offensive team over the last 4-5 years. I think his statistical value can only go up.
As of right now: Roy, Dre, Calvin
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is really tough. In dynasty the safest pick at this point is A. Johnson. The problem with R. Williams is C. Johnson and vice versa. A. Johnson is a bonafied number 1 WR with immense talent. R. Williams also has elite talent and had C. Johnson not been drafted to Detroit it would have been a harder decision.
A. Johnson is coming off a 103 reception year with Carr as the QB and Dayne as the RB and the number 2 WR had a whopping 55 receptions for 557 yards. Need I mention A. Johnson is only 26 years of age and has 2 one thousand yard seasons; he also has experience for his age. The Texans now have a better RB, a better QB and I don't think it will get much worst production out of the WR 2 spot this season. Johnson should have a career high in TD's this season and his progress going forward is more clear than the other 2.
I say at this point in dynasty A. Johnson> R. Williams=C. Johnson
In redraft: A. Johnson> R. Williams> C. Johnson
A. Johnson is coming off a 103 reception year with Carr as the QB and Dayne as the RB and the number 2 WR had a whopping 55 receptions for 557 yards. Need I mention A. Johnson is only 26 years of age and has 2 one thousand yard seasons; he also has experience for his age. The Texans now have a better RB, a better QB and I don't think it will get much worst production out of the WR 2 spot this season. Johnson should have a career high in TD's this season and his progress going forward is more clear than the other 2.
I say at this point in dynasty A. Johnson> R. Williams=C. Johnson
In redraft: A. Johnson> R. Williams> C. Johnson
Pretty much the way I am seeing a dynasty...... A.Johnson and R.Williams are VERY close....Anyone else?
Gandalf
Footballguy
In a dynasty league, I prefer Roy Williams > Calvin Johnson > Andre Johnson.
But honestly all three are close. It will be interesting to see how AJ develops chemistry with Matt Shaub because he could emerge as the best of the three this year. That said, if I were in a draft today though this is how I would rank them.
But honestly all three are close. It will be interesting to see how AJ develops chemistry with Matt Shaub because he could emerge as the best of the three this year. That said, if I were in a draft today though this is how I would rank them.
crimsonrebel
Footballguy
I take Roy in a close call simply because the texans should theoretically have a better D, and thus pass less. Roy will not see double coverage as much, if CJ plays half as well as expected. Lastly, the texans should be throwing fewer deep balls, since theyre less able to sell the playaction.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Depends on how long you believe Kitna can be an average QB.
AJ and Roy are the same age, but I feel Roy's situation is slightly better with Calvin coming into town. Defence will not be able to double cover both, and one of them will benefit, or maybe both. But in Houston AJ should expect to see tougher looks, his supporting WR is unknown. He will not score as many TD's as Roy will either IMO.
At this point in time I see Roy>AJ>CJ2 in the near future, I could easily see Calvin surpassing one or both of them.
At this point in time I see Roy>AJ>CJ2 in the near future, I could easily see Calvin surpassing one or both of them.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I don't know if Calvin coming to town has a positive or negative effect on Roy. M. Furrey last year in Detroit had 98 catches in comparison to R. Williams 82. Also, Furrey had 6 TD's vs Williams 7 TD's. Will Johnson eat into those TD totals? Will he take away some of Williams yards?The thing to worry about in Detroit
I think the best thing to help R. Williams was Martz. I mean is it coincidence that R. Williams had a career year by caching 30 more balls than his previous best and adding 500 yards on to that total as well. Along with M. Furrey shattering his career best with 80 more catches and 1000 more yards as a 30 year old player. Also, add J. Kitna throwing for 700 more yards then his career best.
Detroit threw the ball 596 times last season in comparison to other pass happy offenses
Indy 557
NO 580
Philly 540
Martz makes WR's fantasy gold. Where I see a problem is how long will Martz be in Detroit? If he was a head coach I see more stability there, however, it wouldn't surprise anyone if Martz (a SB winning head coach) to get offered a coaching job anytime in the near future. When Martz leaves who is going to be WR1 between Williams and C. Johnson and who will have more Fantasy impact in a year or 2 down the road.
A. Johnson is entrenched as the WR 1 and is not in any jeoprady of losing that job for a long while.
Remember just 4 years ago when A. Johnson was drafted 3rd overall he had a pretty good draft report himself:
Assets are a rare talent with exceptional speed, quickness, and body control, as well as great size. Is as big as a small tight end but can burn a defender deep. Can make leaping circus catches. Cannot be jammed on the line and uses his size to shield defenders from the ball. A punishing runner in the open field who has good vision and will also drag tacklers. Loves to mix it up when blocking.
A. Johnson is actually still only 25 (almost 26 in a month).
R. Williams is 26
Calvin Johnson is 22.
I think Johnson being the out and out number 1 on his team gives him the advantage over the other 2.
az_prof
Footballguy
I like AJ better than both of those guys. He has a longer, more established track record and his physical ability has not reached the ceiling yet. If Schaub becomes a good qb, he will be a top 5 WR for a long time. Then I like Roy because he has proven something. Last is CJ, who is vastly overrated until he does something. You don't have to look far in Detroit to find highly touted "can't miss" rookies who missed in a major way.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
In Dynasty, skill is what should be the deciding factor and I think Roy Williams > Andre Johnson.Down the road, you ahve no idea who these WRs will be playing for or who will be throwing them the ball. Yes, you can look at their immediate future and use it as a gauge as well and that is also the nod to Roy since he plays in a Martz offense for a team who will throw to 4000 yards.
This #1 WR on the team is a bunch of BS. Who cares if Andre Johnson is a #1 WR on a team that will throw for 3000 yards, if Roy Williams is a 1a/1b WR on a team who throws for a hell lot more yards and TDs.
In re-draft....
1. Roy Williams
2. Andre Johnson
3. Calvin Johnson
In dynasty...
1. Roy Williams
2. Calvin Johnson
3. Andre Johnson
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
What has R. Williams done to prove he is better or going to be better than A. Johnson down the road? He has not shown enough to say he is going to be better. We do know that they have both shown they are/can be elite, the only problem is Detroit has now drafted the best WR prospect to come out of college in C. Johnson at number 2 since A. Johnson went number 3 in 2003.It is all about opportunity and right now Johnson is going to have just as good opporunity and perhaps more opportunity in the future than R. Williams IMO.
Some of last seasons teams total attempted targets per game average of WR1's vs WR 2's.
-A. Johnson 10.8 vs Moulds 5.7
-R. Williams 9.7 vs Furrey 9.6
-D. Driver 11.4 vs G. Jennings 7.9
-S. Smith 10.4 vs K. Johnson 8.4
-T. Holt 12.4 vs Bruce 8.4
-Boldin 10.1 vs Fitz 8.9
-T. Owens 10.3 vs Glenn 7.4
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Having a good WR opposite is only good things, I don't see the downside. What does it matter that Calvin is on the opposite side of Roy Williams? A team can have two good WRs on the team and still both be productive and it helps each other out in not allowing double teams.
Where is Harrison and Wayne on that list? Or do they not matter in this discussion, or is it because their numbers would prove the other side. If your going to present the facts, present the whole facts... not selected ones. So Boldin gets 10.1 looks/game and Fitz only 8.9, why is Fitz ranked higher? Why is Fitz even higher than AJ? AJ doesn't even have a guy taking 10.1 looks away from him every game. Why is it not possible CJ2 and ROY become like Marvin and Reggie, or Fitz and Boldin? Mainevent
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Pretty much my thoughts too.For redraft though, I think Williams might have a little better upside than Johnson. Johnson is probably safer, but he set career marks last year in receptions and yards, and isn't too likely to improve on those numbers IMO. If he does improve at all, it'll be in the TD category where he had a measly 5 last year. Even still, I can't see that number growing too much.Williams set career numbers in catches and yardage too, but unlike AJ, I think he could improve on these numbers, or at least the receptions. Williams has a poor defense, which should mean plenty of tosses. Martz is his coordinator - nuff said there. Having Johnson opposite him may hurt him, but it could also help take away some of the attention on him. Detroit now has Williams, Johnson, and Furrey as their top 3. I can't imagine Williams will see the amount of double teams he saw last year. If you're looking for the safe pick, I'd go AJ. If you're looking for better upside (and still not overly risky IMO) I'd go Williams, who outscored AJ last year even in PPR.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
redraft: RW, AJ, CJ
dynasty: CJ, RW, AJ
dynasty: CJ, RW, AJ
brakeyawself
Footballguy
In redraft AJ>CJ>RW
In Dynasty CJ>AJ>RW
This year, AJ should have some fantastic totals. Calvin I think will have one of the top 5 rookie WR seasons ever. Even if he doesnt, he will probably still have an excellent rookie season. RW, will have a good season, if he plays all of it, but I believe Calvin will get equal to greater looks by the end of the season.
In dynasty, im not sure its that close. Which guy would you not trade for the other? I could see AJ for Roy I suppose, but Im not sure anyone would trade CJ or the equivelent of rookie pick 1.2 or 1.3 for either one of them. Alot of people are asking for much more.
In Dynasty CJ>AJ>RW
This year, AJ should have some fantastic totals. Calvin I think will have one of the top 5 rookie WR seasons ever. Even if he doesnt, he will probably still have an excellent rookie season. RW, will have a good season, if he plays all of it, but I believe Calvin will get equal to greater looks by the end of the season.
In dynasty, im not sure its that close. Which guy would you not trade for the other? I could see AJ for Roy I suppose, but Im not sure anyone would trade CJ or the equivelent of rookie pick 1.2 or 1.3 for either one of them. Alot of people are asking for much more.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Harrison and Wayne are at 9.8 and 9.1 respectively. Harrison and Wayne are so good because of their ability to both get double digit TD's or close to double digit every single year because of their QB. Other WR duos are not so forunate. And fyi Boldin and Fitz are equal in value to me due to Boldin being able to produce as effectively as Fitz for a cheaper price. Things to keep in mind: Kitna has been in the league for 10 seasons and his top TD production is 26. He did only have 22 last season. Manning has been in the league 9 seasons and never had a year of less then 26 TD's including his rookie season. WR's who are equal in skill Williams=Johnson but one is a clear cut WR 1 in the now and future seems like the right play to me.Mainevent said:
lions327
Footballguy
It's easy to sit here and say Calvin hasn't proven anything. Of course he hasn't, he has never played an NFL game.
It's insane to compare him to players like Charles Rogers just because both went #2 overall. It's equally insane to compare him to Moss because his rookie season was a rare occurance.
Part of the game is figuring out who will be good long term. Calvin may not have proven anything compared to Roy or Andre, since he hasn't played yet, but it doesn't mean taking him over the other 2 is wrong or crazy. Calvin doesn't have any negatives coming out of college, and he is possibly the best prospect to ever come out of college.
He has more pure talent than Roy or Andre. He has much more upside. All he doesn't have over the other 2 is NFL game experience.
I am not just talking, I backed up my talk by taking him as the 4th overall WR in a recent dynasty league draft. This draft has 2 conferences, and he was the FIRST WR taken in the other. I seriously think he will be the #1 WR in 3-4 years. I don't see anything that says he will not be at least a top 5 WR.
To me, he is THAT good, proof or not.
It's insane to compare him to players like Charles Rogers just because both went #2 overall. It's equally insane to compare him to Moss because his rookie season was a rare occurance.
Part of the game is figuring out who will be good long term. Calvin may not have proven anything compared to Roy or Andre, since he hasn't played yet, but it doesn't mean taking him over the other 2 is wrong or crazy. Calvin doesn't have any negatives coming out of college, and he is possibly the best prospect to ever come out of college.
He has more pure talent than Roy or Andre. He has much more upside. All he doesn't have over the other 2 is NFL game experience.
I am not just talking, I backed up my talk by taking him as the 4th overall WR in a recent dynasty league draft. This draft has 2 conferences, and he was the FIRST WR taken in the other. I seriously think he will be the #1 WR in 3-4 years. I don't see anything that says he will not be at least a top 5 WR.
To me, he is THAT good, proof or not.
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k2isabeast
Footballguy
Keeping on topic Id say redraft: AJ>Roy>CJ2. Dynasty: AJ=Roy=CJ2
The system in Detroit will cancel the benefit of being the go to guy in HOU. If I had to pick one of those 3 Id go AJ unless I have another top 10 WR rostered..then maybe Id take a shot on CJ2(DYNASTY)
The system in Detroit will cancel the benefit of being the go to guy in HOU. If I had to pick one of those 3 Id go AJ unless I have another top 10 WR rostered..then maybe Id take a shot on CJ2(DYNASTY)
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I like all these guys and don't really know if there is a right or wrong choice at this point.
Don't get me wrong ,I do like all of these guys.
Just a special not here for Andre Johnson. He is a 6 foot 3 WR that weighs 220 pounds and ran a 10.59 second 100 m sprint in 2002 at college to win the Big East Outdoor Championships.
He also won the 60 m dash in that same year with a time of 6.83 seconds.
I don't think picking any of these guys is wrong.
Don't get me wrong ,I do like all of these guys.
Just a special not here for Andre Johnson. He is a 6 foot 3 WR that weighs 220 pounds and ran a 10.59 second 100 m sprint in 2002 at college to win the Big East Outdoor Championships.
He also won the 60 m dash in that same year with a time of 6.83 seconds.
I don't think picking any of these guys is wrong.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
In dynasty that is the way I would rank them.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I like Andre then Calvin then Roy.
Calvin looks sick but so did Andre coming out. Only reason Rogers was drafted ahead of Andre was because of the home town connection imho. Andre always looked like the better player to me.
Andre reminds me of TO without all the tude and better hands. Hands are somthing Roy still needs to work on by comparision. Calvin does look good but need to see more of him at the next level to fairly compare.
Right now I would say Andre clearly has the most talent out of these 3 WR.
Calvin looks sick but so did Andre coming out. Only reason Rogers was drafted ahead of Andre was because of the home town connection imho. Andre always looked like the better player to me.
Andre reminds me of TO without all the tude and better hands. Hands are somthing Roy still needs to work on by comparision. Calvin does look good but need to see more of him at the next level to fairly compare.
Right now I would say Andre clearly has the most talent out of these 3 WR.
az_prof
Footballguy
When you say "He has more pure talent than Roy or Andre. He has much more upside," what facts or statistics or data are you basing that upon?
az_prof
Footballguy
Johnson was called a "freak of nature" when he was drafted. He is 6'2, 230 and runs 4.35. CJ is a little taller, but I wouldn't call him physically superior.
Thing to keep in mind, AJ's highest TD total to date = 6, Roy's LOWEST TD total to date = 7. Does it matter who the QB is? I think the offense is far more important, and if you tell me Houston is going to score more points that Detroit, then you need a new crystal ball.
