Roy Williams offically traded to Dallas (1 Viewer)

[JTM]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

And $27 million...maybe the Pats should have invested that cash into a back-up QB that's seen NFL action.

 

[rick6668]

as a lifelong Dallas fan, i like getting Roy but I think the price was a bit high. I think they will sign him long term, so that's good, and I do think playing for a winning franchise will bring the best out of him, another plus. I think this will make TO better as well, harder to commit to blanketing coverage on him. I just wonder what kind of contract they will give Roy and if it will be more than TO is making, because i'm SURE that will go over smoothly if that happens haha. I just hate giving up the 3 draft picks, even if we do have a surplus next year, the number 1 alone should have done it. I guess you have to give to get, so we will see what happens. I'm also in the camp that Dallas's biggest problems did not lie at #2 WR, but I digress.

Everyone's talking about how they need a WR2, but the fact is that between TO, Witten, Romo and Barber they've already got a lot of talent at the skill positions before this trade. If they aren't able to pass with Romo, TO, and Witten, is adding a severely underachieving Roy Williams - who has no knowledge of the offense - going to help? The dirty little secret here is that either the o-line or Jason Garrett, or both, are very overrated because they don't seem to be able to run block or pass protect well enough, consistently enough, to enable that offense to impose its will upon defenses. With that much talent at their disposal, that's ridiculous. Is there a single set of QB-WR1-TE-RB unit in that very good NFC East division that Dallas would swap with before the Roy Williams trade?

Anyway, this Roy Williams seems in this context to be an extravagance, and doubly so when the main problems would seem to exist at this point on the defensive side of the ball.

These posts are so ridiculous...y'all are almost as bad as our local media here in Dallas. BEFORE the Roy Williams trade and AFTER the Pac suspension, Dallas had the following picks next year:1st, 2nd, (2) 3rds, (2) 4ths, 5th back from TEN, keep their 6th (TEN), and 7th.

For Williams we give up a 1st, 3rd, 6th (that we were giving up anyway), and recieve a 7th.

Essentially, we gave up a 1st for an ESTABLISHED 27-year old WR. We can play the craps table and HOPE we get an NFL quality WR in the draft that may or may not make the transition within the first two (2) years. And according to the local media and Ed Werder at ESPN via radio, the Boys have a handshake deal in place for an extension for Williams.

TO is 34 years old. Patrick Crayton is a #3 and Miles Austin is improved, but not the next coming. GREAT TRADE!!! It's a trade for the future that'll help them win today. If no CB's are available then we just score more points...I like it.

You're on the money here JTM.

Ditto

Or you can simply look at it like this for the 2009 draft-WR Roy Williams

a 2nd

a 3rd

two 4ths

two 5ths

a 6th

two 7ths

I don't see where that hurts at all. Not even a bruise.

Who cares what they have left? That's illogical.Either they gave up too much, or they didn't.

If Dallas has 3 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounders in 2009, would you say a trade for Roy was ok for 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders because they still have a 1st and 2nd?

 

[Urinal Mint]

Are playoff wins > stats?

They oughta be At least the owner is willing to win the dice to win a championship. He could be sitting back and drawing a fat paycheck like so many other owners in the league.

 

[MSULions]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

 

[BigTex]

LOL, I'm not sure how this is "overpaying" for Williams. What are the chances a 3rd and or a 6th will make any type of impact let alone start............slim to none.

Witten, Crayton, Reeves, Ratliff, Pettiti, Canty, Barber, Burnett, Folk, Stanbeck, Scandrick, and Choice were all drafted in the third round or later since 2003. Either the Cowboys aren't nearly as good as you and other Cowboys fans like to crow that they are because those players all are non-factors, or those picks are in fact worth more than you're willing to acknowledge right now. Which is it?

Answer this first, when have you ever seen ME crow?Then I'll answer the rest...............

Nice dodge. None of those guys have any impact, right or wrong?

No dodge, you said I like to crow about the Cowboys draft picks when in reality I rarely post in any Cowboy thread, hell I've yet to post or view a Cowboy game thread. So in no way is this a "dodge". Now if you would like to ask me how "I" feel about the Cowboys drafting over the last few years, IMHO has been average a best. I've always thought that Bill was overrated and I was never onboard with them hiring the current HC. I am on record saying this two things.To say that Witten has not made any impact is insane......what are you really trying to ask me?

Can you read? Try it. Go back and read where you said that the 3rd round and later picks didn't get you players "who made much of an impact", and where I showed you with the Cowboys own drafts that that wasn't the case. The best drafts by far over the last 14 years or so, since Jimmy Johnson left, were during the Parcells era, and this year (though it's early) when Jerry benefited from the last draft preparations of Ireland, a Parcells guy before he departed for Miami. You're now going to start seeing more of the boneheaded drafting and trading that you saw circa 1995-2002 because Jerry once again wants to show the world that he is a real pro football man and not just some oil dude who bought his way into ownership of a team.

Good luck to you because it's not going to be pretty. This is the first step back downhill.

Yes I can read but its obvius you're struggling in that area. My comments were in general terms I never said anything about getting us players. Again you're putting something in my mouth. I clearly said:

What are the chances a 3rd and or a 6th will make any type of impact let alone start

This is a "general" statement, not one time did I make a reference to the Cowboys drafting at that time. But according to you:

Go back and read where you said that the 3rd round and later picks didn't get you players "who made much of an impact",

Yea, I'm the one with a reading problem.

 

[jurb26]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Your right, that wasn't a totally accurate statement. But if you don't see and understand the massive differences in Moss' situation and trade and Williams then your just trying not to IMO.

 

[SanDawg]

In this 7 page mess I was looking for comments from T.O., has a Dallas homer or anyone for that matter heard any comments from T.O. on this?

 

[T Bell]

Are playoff wins > stats?

They oughta be At least the owner is willing to win the dice to win a championship. He could be sitting back and drawing a fat paycheck like so many other owners in the league.

This hasn't gotten Snyder much sympathy when he's made impulsive moves or paid too much, nor should it. I certainly like an owner who invests money in winning, but the thing to fear here is that Jerry, once again, is THE guy making decisions in that front office with no other credible counsel around to keep his impulses in check. That's going to spell trouble like it did during the era between Jimmy and Bill.

 

[Bankerguy]

My 0.02.

On one hand the deal seems like a win for Det. They get a 1rst/3rd and some other late picks from a guy they were going to lose anyway. They have to be happy from a value standpoint. On the other hand, they have to be disapointed to have another star want out and have to resort to trading. This is what hurts that franchise.

For the Cowboys, this fills a need they were going to address through the draft anyway (likely with their first pick). I think it's fair to say the Roy > who every would be available whe the Cowboy pick next year. It's also NOT like the Cowboys don't have other picks. They still have new blood coming. My only concern is Williams is his work ethic. He is known for quitting on routes and not practicing hard. If he can get his head on straight this is a fantastic deal.

For now though...it's just OK.

 

[Balance]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

The whining/bickering about a trade made by people who by any account know more than either of you is irrelevant and kind of funny.

 

[Bankerguy]

In this 7 page mess I was looking for comments from T.O., has a Dallas homer or anyone for that matter heard any comments from T.O. on this?

Transcript from Spagnola on the radio:As far as how he'll get along with TO, Jerry said he got TO's input on the deal. Roy said TO was the first phone call he got to welcome him in. He said “Let’s go win some ballgames” We’ll see how long that lasts when one guy is catching nine passes and the other is catching two, but I tell you Roy Williams doesn’t care about catching a ton of balls. He was already sharing the workload with Calvin Johnson. He’s just happy to be here and he feels like he just got out of jail. Plus, he said he’s never got what TO had coming into the league with Jerry Rice on the team and having a veteran to learn from. Roy said he’s looking forward to learning from TO.

 

[BigTex]

Shefter just stated it was a 1st 3rd and 6th

If this is correct, Jerry Jones is well on his way to becoming the George Steinbrenner of the NFL. Considering that the "mortgage the future to acquire marquee superstars" model didn't work in MLB, I can't imagine this will end well for the Cowboys in a league with a salary cap.If you want to trade a 1, 3 and 6, why not get a quality corner to replace the giant void left by Pac-Man and Terence Newman?

Cowboys still have zero chance of winning the superbowl this year.

Among a plethora, I've found THE most ridiculous posting I've seen in this forum. Steinbrenner's Yankees have gone to the playoffs every year for the last 15 years and had 6 championships in that span...I'd say it worked.Jerry sees it, kills it. It may not ALWAYS work, but it's better than sitting on your hands like 95% of the rest of the league. Your team could only be so lucky to have such an aggressive trigger-man. At least he's not scared to roll the dice...same attitude that won him three (3) championships.

As for zero chance...we're 4-2 but with some hurdles to clear, absolutely...but so did the 07 Giants, 06 Colts, 05 Steelers...should I continue? Sounds like another hater in the forum.

We have an owner I wouldn't exchange for any other in the league.

Agreed on zero chance of winning due to lack of leadership and heart.This team is talented but zero leadership ( TO is a #### stirrer but nowhere close to a leader ) i would not even be surprise that if they lose next game then it will become a zoo and they miss the playoffs.

Leadership is an issue, I've yet to see anyone step up. TO tries at times on the sideline but because of his past transgressions its seen as a negative.

 

[two_dollars]

In this 7 page mess I was looking for comments from T.O., has a Dallas homer or anyone for that matter heard any comments from T.O. on this?

From the Jerry Jones interview, he said TO was the first person he called with the news. He said TO was excited and wanted Roy's number to give him a call. I think TO realizes this will open things up for him and pull some of the doubles and safeties off him.

 

[BigTex]

In this 7 page mess I was looking for comments from T.O., has a Dallas homer or anyone for that matter heard any comments from T.O. on this?

yes its on page 5 or 6

 

[JTM]

as a lifelong Dallas fan, i like getting Roy but I think the price was a bit high. I think they will sign him long term, so that's good, and I do think playing for a winning franchise will bring the best out of him, another plus. I think this will make TO better as well, harder to commit to blanketing coverage on him. I just wonder what kind of contract they will give Roy and if it will be more than TO is making, because i'm SURE that will go over smoothly if that happens haha. I just hate giving up the 3 draft picks, even if we do have a surplus next year, the number 1 alone should have done it. I guess you have to give to get, so we will see what happens. I'm also in the camp that Dallas's biggest problems did not lie at #2 WR, but I digress.

Everyone's talking about how they need a WR2, but the fact is that between TO, Witten, Romo and Barber they've already got a lot of talent at the skill positions before this trade. If they aren't able to pass with Romo, TO, and Witten, is adding a severely underachieving Roy Williams - who has no knowledge of the offense - going to help? The dirty little secret here is that either the o-line or Jason Garrett, or both, are very overrated because they don't seem to be able to run block or pass protect well enough, consistently enough, to enable that offense to impose its will upon defenses. With that much talent at their disposal, that's ridiculous. Is there a single set of QB-WR1-TE-RB unit in that very good NFC East division that Dallas would swap with before the Roy Williams trade?

Anyway, this Roy Williams seems in this context to be an extravagance, and doubly so when the main problems would seem to exist at this point on the defensive side of the ball.

These posts are so ridiculous...y'all are almost as bad as our local media here in Dallas. BEFORE the Roy Williams trade and AFTER the Pac suspension, Dallas had the following picks next year:1st, 2nd, (2) 3rds, (2) 4ths, 5th back from TEN, keep their 6th (TEN), and 7th.

For Williams we give up a 1st, 3rd, 6th (that we were giving up anyway), and recieve a 7th.

Essentially, we gave up a 1st for an ESTABLISHED 27-year old WR. We can play the craps table and HOPE we get an NFL quality WR in the draft that may or may not make the transition within the first two (2) years. And according to the local media and Ed Werder at ESPN via radio, the Boys have a handshake deal in place for an extension for Williams.

TO is 34 years old. Patrick Crayton is a #3 and Miles Austin is improved, but not the next coming. GREAT TRADE!!! It's a trade for the future that'll help them win today. If no CB's are available then we just score more points...I like it.

You're on the money here JTM.

Ditto

Or you can simply look at it like this for the 2009 draft-WR Roy Williams

a 2nd

a 3rd

two 4ths

two 5ths

a 6th

two 7ths

I don't see where that hurts at all. Not even a bruise.

Who cares what they have left? That's illogical.Either they gave up too much, or they didn't.

If Dallas has 3 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounders in 2009, would you say a trade for Roy was ok for 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders because they still have a 1st and 2nd?

Dude...be logical. Even still...a 1st, 3rd, a 6th...for proven NFL talent at a skill position? At this point...in this circumstance...why not?

 

[SanDawg]

In this 7 page mess I was looking for comments from T.O., has a Dallas homer or anyone for that matter heard any comments from T.O. on this?

From the Jerry Jones interview, he said TO was the first person he called with the news. He said TO was excited and wanted Roy's number to give him a call. I think TO realizes this will open things up for him and pull some of the doubles and safeties off him.

That is good news, for now anyways. But like an earlier post said, we will see when Roy gets 10 targets to his 3 what we will have on our hands.

 

[fatness]

So who gets to wear "Roy Williams" on the back of his Cowboy uniform?

 

[simey]

tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Deion Branch

 

[JTM]

Are playoff wins > stats?

They oughta be At least the owner is willing to win the dice to win a championship. He could be sitting back and drawing a fat paycheck like so many other owners in the league.

This hasn't gotten Snyder much sympathy when he's made impulsive moves or paid too much, nor should it. I certainly like an owner who invests money in winning, but the thing to fear here is that Jerry, once again, is THE guy making decisions in that front office with no other credible counsel around to keep his impulses in check. That's going to spell trouble like it did during the era between Jimmy and Bill.

Tater...go back and watch some Hard Knocks...Steven Jones has slapped his old man around on multiple occasions, including last years draft where he told Jerry to leave the room...and Jerry complied. It remains to be seen if Steven is the next coming, but there is at least another brain in the mix quelling Jerry's Id.

 

[JTM]

So who gets to wear "Roy Williams" on the back of his Cowboy uniform?

Excellent question...

 

[craigboy]

tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Deion Branch

Yup all the way back in 2007, boy that was so long ago. Before that no WR was traded for a first round pick since....... 05 Randy Moss to the Raiders

 

[Tanner9919]

Just saw on ESPN. Wow. That's a lot.

Waaaayyy toooo muchThey already have a 2 WR that knows how to drop passes.

Isn't Roy a free agent next year? If so, that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.Edit: Assuming they gave up a 1st,3rd, and 6th.

I take the contrarian view...I think Dallas paid for what they got, a borderline pro bowl player ( playing in Detroit, mind you), with all-world skills, size, etc, who posted 1300 yards not long ago with scrubs at the QB position..I also think it sort of seals T.O.'s fate, realistically, how many years left does T.O. have? Perhaps Dallas brass felt this might be T.O.s last season in a Cowboys' uniform, and that they needed a big , strong, tall, star WR to replace him..I also think it paves the way for them to sign Chad Johnson as well ( in the off-season)...T.O is already whining, and now what'll happen sans Romo with B. Johnson at QB? I'll bet Jerry Jones sees the writing on the wall with T.O., who is nearing the end of his 'shelf-life' for being a model citizen..its time to move on..as far as giving up high draft picks, a 3rd and a 6th are nothing really, and with the 1st round pick, what is the bust-rate of all 32 NFL first-round picks over the past 10-15 years? probably much better than 50% right? with that being said, they don't need to throw a lot of money at some unproven rookie who *might* develop into a star someday..they GOT their star today, in Roy Williams.. and you have to remember, this team doesn't need much,if anything, to contend for a SB ..this might be the piece to put them over the hump..I'm sure this sets up Williams to be the Cowboys' #1 WR next season, taking over for T.O. and I dislike the Cowboys as much as the next guy, I'm a Giants fan..but I think this is a terrific move by Dallas..just a great move, IMO

 

[T Bell]

Are playoff wins > stats?

They oughta be At least the owner is willing to win the dice to win a championship. He could be sitting back and drawing a fat paycheck like so many other owners in the league.

This hasn't gotten Snyder much sympathy when he's made impulsive moves or paid too much, nor should it. I certainly like an owner who invests money in winning, but the thing to fear here is that Jerry, once again, is THE guy making decisions in that front office with no other credible counsel around to keep his impulses in check. That's going to spell trouble like it did during the era between Jimmy and Bill.

Tater...go back and watch some Hard Knocks...Steven Jones has slapped his old man around on multiple occasions, including last years draft where he told Jerry to leave the room...and Jerry complied. It remains to be seen if Steven is the next coming, but there is at least another brain in the mix quelling Jerry's Id.

Like I said.If Steven Jones were fired by the Cowboys, how many NFL teams would hire him for a position in their personnel department?

 

[Bri]

Can he play Safety?

 

[fatness]

Can he play Safety?

Maybe the new one can. The old one sure can't.

 

[Walton Goggins]

What a great move by DET. Dallas looked terrible the last two weeks, their defense can't stop anyone and their offensive line is shot. No way will Dallas be better than the last two years even before Romo went down.

 

[Sinrman]

Good luck to ROY. He is a gifted receiver, and I really wish he had been given a chance to shine in Detroit. Too bad the Lions blow...

 

[puckalicious]

I just hope the lions get a GM that will make good use of those draft picks. Has to be better than Millen, so I have no choice but to view this as a big win for Detroit. Roy wasn't going to be a Lion in 2009 anyway.

 

[Mustang Man]

as a lifelong Dallas fan, i like getting Roy but I think the price was a bit high. I think they will sign him long term, so that's good, and I do think playing for a winning franchise will bring the best out of him, another plus. I think this will make TO better as well, harder to commit to blanketing coverage on him. I just wonder what kind of contract they will give Roy and if it will be more than TO is making, because i'm SURE that will go over smoothly if that happens haha. I just hate giving up the 3 draft picks, even if we do have a surplus next year, the number 1 alone should have done it. I guess you have to give to get, so we will see what happens. I'm also in the camp that Dallas's biggest problems did not lie at #2 WR, but I digress.

Everyone's talking about how they need a WR2, but the fact is that between TO, Witten, Romo and Barber they've already got a lot of talent at the skill positions before this trade. If they aren't able to pass with Romo, TO, and Witten, is adding a severely underachieving Roy Williams - who has no knowledge of the offense - going to help? The dirty little secret here is that either the o-line or Jason Garrett, or both, are very overrated because they don't seem to be able to run block or pass protect well enough, consistently enough, to enable that offense to impose its will upon defenses. With that much talent at their disposal, that's ridiculous. Is there a single set of QB-WR1-TE-RB unit in that very good NFC East division that Dallas would swap with before the Roy Williams trade?

Anyway, this Roy Williams seems in this context to be an extravagance, and doubly so when the main problems would seem to exist at this point on the defensive side of the ball.

These posts are so ridiculous...y'all are almost as bad as our local media here in Dallas. BEFORE the Roy Williams trade and AFTER the Pac suspension, Dallas had the following picks next year:1st, 2nd, (2) 3rds, (2) 4ths, 5th back from TEN, keep their 6th (TEN), and 7th.

For Williams we give up a 1st, 3rd, 6th (that we were giving up anyway), and recieve a 7th.

Essentially, we gave up a 1st for an ESTABLISHED 27-year old WR. We can play the craps table and HOPE we get an NFL quality WR in the draft that may or may not make the transition within the first two (2) years. And according to the local media and Ed Werder at ESPN via radio, the Boys have a handshake deal in place for an extension for Williams.

TO is 34 years old. Patrick Crayton is a #3 and Miles Austin is improved, but not the next coming. GREAT TRADE!!! It's a trade for the future that'll help them win today. If no CB's are available then we just score more points...I like it.

You're on the money here JTM.

Ditto

Or you can simply look at it like this for the 2009 draft-WR Roy Williams

a 2nd

a 3rd

two 4ths

two 5ths

a 6th

two 7ths

I don't see where that hurts at all. Not even a bruise.

I'll take it. I like this trade, only negative at point is the timing of the trade. It'll take Roy some time to learn the system and get in a groove.

This is what people do not realize on these boards and go popping off at the mouth or finger. Dallas was able to offer these picks because of good trades in the past that gave them extra picks. You can't just look at this deal, it is what is set up to get to this point that made this offer possible and a great deal for Dallas. Look above at the picks and the first round player we got NOT BAD, END OF STORY!!

 

[cowboyz]

http://www.insidethehuddle.com/

7:30 to 8:30 cst

TO's weekly show. he's supposed to have patrick crayton on

was going to be romo, but he wussed out

 

[treat88]

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Value is always contextual.Their is no defined value for any player. Fantasy or NFL.

 

[Mustang Man]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Your right, that wasn't a totally accurate statement. But if you don't see and understand the massive differences in Moss' situation and trade and Williams then your just trying not to IMO.

Moss value at the time of the trade was super low. Hence the 4th rounder. He was giving up on plays causing problems and just plain not producing. He was seen as a bad attitude player that might of had his best days behind him. The Pats made a good move by getting a player at his lowest value and that can't be said in this case with Roy who is only 27 and best days are in front of him.

 

[craigboy]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

Your right, that wasn't a totally accurate statement. But if you don't see and understand the massive differences in Moss' situation and trade and Williams then your just trying not to IMO.

Moss value at the time of the trade was super low. Hence the 4th rounder. He was giving up on plays causing problems and just plain not producing. He was seen as a bad attitude player that might of had his best days behind him. The Pats made a good move by getting a player at his lowest value and that can't be said in this case with Roy who is only 27 and best days are in front of him.

Exactly, Moss' value just two years prior was the #7 pick in the draft.

 

[cowboyz]

greg ellis was talking about how something big was occuring in the organization and there was a lot of divide. i think this was it. this was an incredibly stupid decision.

Greg Ellis said nothing of the like. He said he was disappointed in the organization as a whole and with how the talent was being used. Greg Ellis said the exact same thing when Parcells moved him to OLB. I love Greg Ellis, but his comments have as much to do with his personal stake as it does the team's.

he didn't say the same thing, he said he wanted to be released. then this year, he said spencer was a better player and he saw the writing on the wall.http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/cowb...s-hints-at.html

And he hinted at something much greater than a regular-season loss, or the bad news that their starting QB is out.

When asked what the reality of this team is, Ellis said, "I can't give you the true reality of yesterday because it would start a big controversy. We're just trying to hang in there together and win games."

When pressed on this Ellis said, "That is as much reality I can give you guys. We're trying to hang in there and win football games. That's it."

Ellis said he was "disappointed in the organization." He also suggested that the team is fractured.

 

[Mustang Man]

NOW THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A TERRIBLE TRADE

Ed Werder of ESPN reports that the Cowboys have talked to the Lions about trading for WR Roy Williams.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network noted earlier that the Lions asked for DeMarcus Ware in exchange for Williams, which the Cowboys hopefully laughed at. The trade deadline is 4:00 p.m. ET and the Lions are said to be holding out for more than a first-round pick.

 

[Bankerguy]

NOW THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A TERRIBLE TRADE Ed Werder of ESPN reports that the Cowboys have talked to the Lions about trading for WR Roy Williams.Adam Schefter of NFL Network noted earlier that the Lions asked for DeMarcus Ware in exchange for Williams, which the Cowboys hopefully laughed at. The trade deadline is 4:00 p.m. ET and the Lions are said to be holding out for more than a first-round pick.

OLD rumor. Yes the Cowboys laughed. Oh and it was Matt Millen

 

[MSULions]

Great trade for both teams. Dal didn't overpay, Williams is much better than he is given credit for around here. You don't get WRs of Williams' quality w/o giving up a 1st and Williams is a clear upgrade to anyone on that roster.

you mean like Randy Moss? I seem to recall he cost a 4th round pick.

Starkly different situation and I also seem to recall everyone thinking it was a steal even before Moss regained form.

you claimed you don't get a player of his caliber without giving up a 1st round pick. you are wrong. picks are never commensurate with the player's value...and Moss is a prime example. tell me the last WR that was traded for a first round pick?

The whining/bickering about a trade made by people who by any account know more than either of you is irrelevant and kind of funny.

i don't think it's irrelevant at all. giving up a 1st round pick for a player is HUGE...and very rare. I honestly can't remember the last time it happened (ETA: I didn't know Branch was a 1st rounder...Moss was the only other one I could recall after a bit of thought when he went to the Raiders - but we all know Al Davis has a different way of doing things ). add in the fact they gave up two MORE picks in addition to the #1 and this is a rather crazy precedent. for years teams have been misers with their draft picks and (except for the strange A.J. Feeley deal) unwilling to give anywhere near appropriate value for a player when trading them for guys straight up. Moss is a prime example of that...Jason Taylor for a 2nd and 5th (who is eons more valuable imo), Vilma for a conditional 4th round pick...etc etc etc. In the context of what has happened in the last few years with trading players for picks a 1st, 3rd, and 6th for a guy who has underperformed and shown streaks of being a bit of a problem guy is pretty damned amazing. One of the articles noted that Jones had been pursuing Roy for 2 years now and threw in the 3rd rounder at 2:58 to get it done...he knows he overpaid.

 

[MSULions]

All i'm saying is that I find it very interesting that Detroit was able to get such tremendous value for a guy who was going to be gone next year anyway given the way most teams have held on to their draft picks like they are guarantees to get 5 pro bowlers every year. For years i've wondered why GMs view their picks as far more valuable than established players...ego perhaps? As in they believe they'll find the diamonds in the rough?

 

[money.never.sleeps]

All i'm saying is that I find it very interesting that Detroit was able to get such tremendous value for a guy who was going to be gone next year anyway given the way most teams have held on to their draft picks like they are guarantees to get 5 pro bowlers every year. For years i've wondered why GMs view their picks as far more valuable than established players...ego perhaps? As in they believe they'll find the diamonds in the rough?

I believe Lions would and could've franchised Williams for next year but I will agree.. I'd rather have young proven player than a rookie. Though money does come into play with young veteran. As a Cowboys fan and born/raised in Dallas, I am all for this trade and if Roy Williams gets FOCUSED he could be a great player.. no doubt.I gambled about 3 weeks ago on acquiring Roy and Patrick Willis for EJ Henderson and John Stewert.. Im def. about to reap the benefits of my gambling. Keep in mind, I have Lynch and Peterson and could not play Stewert. Also, slaton and hightower on bench so I really was desperate for WR.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Why do people think Dallas so desperately needed a #2 WR? Crayton is adequate and Austin has done a couple things, plus they have Witten.

Here's a list of the teams that have had two elite talents at WR (in my opinion, but I'm guessing most others will agree) over the last two seasons:

Cincinnati Bengals

Arizona Cardinals

Detroit Lions

How's that working out for them? The 2008 Cardinals are the only moderate success story of the six seasons, and their marquee win came without one of their two elite WRs. I guess you could also argue the Colts should be included, but they might well be a product of the QB, plus Harrison hasn't been elite since 2006.

The notion that you need or even want two stud WRs is a fallacy, and trading away the farm to get one is just foolish.

Also, from a fantasy standpoint, this is not good for Williams. The loss of a bye week is bigger than you think. Losing Brandon Marshall for a single week resulting in most people downgrading him a round or so. Williams is gone for at least one extra week, and it would be surprising if he played extensively this weekend since he'll only have three days to get caught up. Plus he's now competing with two top-level talents for catches.

You should write for political campaigns...it's not what you say that speaks volumes, rather what you don't. Those teams have had TERRIBLE defenses and/or questionable running games.On the contrary, here are some other teams with a quality #2:

99 Rams

00 Rams

02 Rams

03 Panthers

06 Colts

07 NE

There are multiple ways to win in this league, but as noted above...outscoring your opponent has been pretty successful in the recent past...

I said two elite talents. Welker is not that. 06 Colts are the only real success in the last five years with two elite talents at WR, and even that is debatable- we still don't know how much their receivers are a product of playing with Peyton.Anyway, the point was not that having two elite WRs was a recipe for disaster ... but rather, that you definitely don't need it at all to succeed. Everyone is running around talking about how the Cowboys "needed" a #2 receiver. I'm questioning that logic.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Good luck to ROY. He is a gifted receiver, and I really wish he had been given a chance to shine in Detroit. Too bad the Lions blow...

Given a chance to shine? Holy crap. Roy was given EVERY chance to shine in Detroit. No matter how many passes he dropped, how many times he caught a ball that should've been a first down and ran backwards with it, no matter how much he showboated over meaningless crap, the Lions kept him on the field and kept trying to get him the ball.The Lions targetted him 18 TIMES against the Bears, even though he was dropping passes, pouting and acting like a 4-year-old all game.

The problem isn't that Roy Williams hasn't had a chance to shine. It's that he's had it and squandered it because he isn't very good.

 

[Routilla]

Does anyone actually think that it takes more than single coverage to cover Roy Williams any more?

Will teams try to cover him with half a player? Maybe a quarter linebacker?

Teams will use a nickel-back in the dime package.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Shefter just stated it was a 1st 3rd and 6th

If this is correct, Jerry Jones is well on his way to becoming the George Steinbrenner of the NFL. Considering that the "mortgage the future to acquire marquee superstars" model didn't work in MLB, I can't imagine this will end well for the Cowboys in a league with a salary cap.If you want to trade a 1, 3 and 6, why not get a quality corner to replace the giant void left by Pac-Man and Terence Newman?

Cowboys still have zero chance of winning the superbowl this year.

Among a plethora, I've found THE most ridiculous posting I've seen in this forum. Steinbrenner's Yankees have gone to the playoffs every year for the last 15 years and had 6 championships in that span...I'd say it worked.Jerry sees it, kills it. It may not ALWAYS work, but it's better than sitting on your hands like 95% of the rest of the league. Your team could only be so lucky to have such an aggressive trigger-man. At least he's not scared to roll the dice...same attitude that won him three (3) championships.

And you show me the CB that was on the market at this price. Besides, Scandrick is already panning out, Jenkins is a 1st rounder, and we still have Henry and Newman (once healthy). Giving up the same for a CB--if available--after already investing so much at that position makes ZERO sense.

As for zero chance...we're 4-2 but with some hurdles to clear, absolutely...but so did the 07 Giants, 06 Colts, 05 Steelers...should I continue? Sounds like another hater in the forum.

Steinbrenner's Yankees won a bunch of titles in the 1990s building on draft picks and a culture of winning. Then he got too full of himself and his success, started making more and more outlandish moves and, as a result, his team hasn't won a title this century. Sound familiar?Of course, the Yankees have won a playoff game this century, so I guess it's not a complete parallel. But you have to admit, the similarities are stunning. Heck, they're even tearing down historic stadiums to build over-the-top tributes to their own egos at the same time.

And for the record- I don't think they have zero chance of winning the Super Bowl this year. They've got as good a chance as about ten other teams. But I do think Jones is taking his team in the wrong direction. Resigning Roy Williams will not be cheap ... and two years from now when TO is 36, they're gonna have the same problem with depth at WR, except Williams is no TO.

 

[Andy Herron]

as a lifelong Dallas fan, i like getting Roy but I think the price was a bit high. I think they will sign him long term, so that's good, and I do think playing for a winning franchise will bring the best out of him, another plus. I think this will make TO better as well, harder to commit to blanketing coverage on him. I just wonder what kind of contract they will give Roy and if it will be more than TO is making, because i'm SURE that will go over smoothly if that happens haha. I just hate giving up the 3 draft picks, even if we do have a surplus next year, the number 1 alone should have done it. I guess you have to give to get, so we will see what happens. I'm also in the camp that Dallas's biggest problems did not lie at #2 WR, but I digress.

Everyone's talking about how they need a WR2, but the fact is that between TO, Witten, Romo and Barber they've already got a lot of talent at the skill positions before this trade. If they aren't able to pass with Romo, TO, and Witten, is adding a severely underachieving Roy Williams - who has no knowledge of the offense - going to help? The dirty little secret here is that either the o-line or Jason Garrett, or both, are very overrated because they don't seem to be able to run block or pass protect well enough, consistently enough, to enable that offense to impose its will upon defenses. With that much talent at their disposal, that's ridiculous. Is there a single set of QB-WR1-TE-RB unit in that very good NFC East division that Dallas would swap with before the Roy Williams trade?

Anyway, this Roy Williams seems in this context to be an extravagance, and doubly so when the main problems would seem to exist at this point on the defensive side of the ball.

These posts are so ridiculous...y'all are almost as bad as our local media here in Dallas. BEFORE the Roy Williams trade and AFTER the Pac suspension, Dallas had the following picks next year:1st, 2nd, (2) 3rds, (2) 4ths, 5th back from TEN, keep their 6th (TEN), and 7th.

For Williams we give up a 1st, 3rd, 6th (that we were giving up anyway), and recieve a 7th.

Essentially, we gave up a 1st for an ESTABLISHED 27-year old WR. We can play the craps table and HOPE we get an NFL quality WR in the draft that may or may not make the transition within the first two (2) years. And according to the local media and Ed Werder at ESPN via radio, the Boys have a handshake deal in place for an extension for Williams.

TO is 34 years old. Patrick Crayton is a #3 and Miles Austin is improved, but not the next coming. GREAT TRADE!!! It's a trade for the future that'll help them win today. If no CB's are available then we just score more points...I like it.

You're on the money here JTM.

Ditto

Or you can simply look at it like this for the 2009 draft-WR Roy Williams

a 2nd

a 3rd

two 4ths

two 5ths

a 6th

two 7ths

I don't see where that hurts at all. Not even a bruise.

Who cares what they have left? That's illogical. It's called "building a team."Either they gave up too much, or they didn't. They didn't. Clear enough to see.

Replies.

 

[Urinal Mint]

Does anyone actually think that it takes more than single coverage to cover Roy Williams any more?

Will teams try to cover him with half a player? Maybe a quarter linebacker?

Teams will use a nickel-back in the dime package.

Best of luck to the 3rd/4th CB trying to cover him.

 

[BigDave]

As a Dallas fan I'm happy we got Roy. I feel he replaces Crayton/Hurd/Austin as the 3rd choice(Owens#1 Witten#2).

However, I agree it's a bit too much for him. I can see the 1st round pick and maybe a 4th. Or a 1st and a player. A 3rd is a stretch and forget about the 6th and 7th, they are basically scrubs.

Let's give him a chance to prove he's better in Dallas before we questimate his numbers are going to be mediocre.

Let's wait until he gets Romo back and gets some timing down with Tony.

Please don't let it be a Joey Galloway type trade. We can't afford one of those again.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Who is the pickup in Detroit?

Has to be Furrey, no? That guy caught like 100 balls 2 years ago.

 

[Sinrman]

Good luck to ROY. He is a gifted receiver, and I really wish he had been given a chance to shine in Detroit. Too bad the Lions blow...

Given a chance to shine? Holy crap. Roy was given EVERY chance to shine in Detroit. No matter how many passes he dropped, how many times he caught a ball that should've been a first down and ran backwards with it, no matter how much he showboated over meaningless crap, the Lions kept him on the field and kept trying to get him the ball.The Lions targetted him 18 TIMES against the Bears, even though he was dropping passes, pouting and acting like a 4-year-old all game.

The problem isn't that Roy Williams hasn't had a chance to shine. It's that he's had it and squandered it because he isn't very good.

Sure, he dropped some passes. Every receiver does, even the best. But the team as a whole, from the top down, was absolutely horrible. If you have crappy QBs to throw the ball, year in and year out, crappy OL that can't block your grandmother, no running game to take the pressure off the passing game, and no decent receivers (until Calvin) to take some double teams away... well, I don't care HOW talented you are, or even WHO you are, but you're not going to succeed. End of story.

 

[Andy Herron]

Please don't let it be a Joey Galloway type trade. We can't afford one of those again.

That's exactly why Jerry Jones held out until now. Detroit had been looking for two 1st rounders for the last two years and Jerry held out.It paid today.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

All i'm saying is that I find it very interesting that Detroit was able to get such tremendous value for a guy who was going to be gone next year anyway given the way most teams have held on to their draft picks like they are guarantees to get 5 pro bowlers every year. For years i've wondered why GMs view their picks as far more valuable than established players...ego perhaps? As in they believe they'll find the diamonds in the rough?

I agree.The giants won't give up a third for TG and RW is woth a 1st and then some. And Randy went for a fifth? I guess you just gotta have the right trading partner.