Rudi Johnson vs. Kevin Smith (1 Viewer)

[gbill2004]

With Rudi signing in Detroit today, which RB is the guy to have? Who will have a better season?

 

[Jason Wood]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

smith will likely double rudys production imo

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

just depth.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

as I said in the other thread now is the time to get smith. His value is as low as it will be on this news. What do you think it'll take?

 

[MCguidance]

I also posted in the other league that there are a myriad of reasons teams sign RBs. IMO, this constitutes an upgrade at the backup position, i.e. depth/insurance for minimal cost. Smith's stock does take a hit, however, just not sure how much at this point. I didn't take Smith as an RB2, so I am not as worried as most, but I think he will have every shot to succeed here.

 

[Jason Wood]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

as I said in the other thread now is the time to get smith. His value is as low as it will be on this news. What do you think it'll take?

I just got done one of my most competitive $$$ league drafts tonight, and I grabbed Smith at 7.10 (12-team, 20 round PPR league). He was the top back in the CBS Sportsline queue for several rounds and people kept passing him by. Rudi went two rounds later. Chris Perry went in the 5th round of that same league.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Can I vote for Jerome Felton?

Smith will get most of the work at first, but when he's not doing much with the limited room to run, because he's not a powerful back, and not a north-south back, then Rudi will get more looks. Smith is definitely the better one to draft and own, because he does have more upside, and could get a big play here and there with the long speed in his glide, but I really don't want to count on the Lions running game if I don't have to.

 

[LHUCKS]

Can I vote for Jerome Felton? Smith will get most of the work at first, but when he's not doing much with the limited room to run, because he's not a powerful back, and not a north-south back, then Rudi will get more looks. Smith is definitely the better one to draft and own, because he does have more upside, and could get a big play here and there with the long speed in his glide, but I really don't want to count on the Lions running game if I don't have to.

Exactly...Rudi between the tackles, Smith outside of them.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

The Lions want to run a lot and you just can't do it with only one RB. I see Smith getting about 65-70% of the work, but Rudi may be in at the goal line.

This was more of a depth move than anything. Bell was not going to play much.

 

[ookook]

I just voted for the younger player, regardless of experiene, accomplishments, or ability to pick up the blitz. Everyone knows that rookie RBs totally rock in all circumstances.

 

[MAC_32]

Tinker Bell is fat, slow, and unmotivated; ridding themselves of him was necessary. Rudi is a significant upgrade as Smith's backup, but that's all he is. Regardless, as Bloom indicated the Lions running game is one to avoid. The run blocking by their oline has been horrendous.

 

[TheFanatic]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

 

[captbly]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

As a Lions fan that watched every preseason game... Smith did not have very good production. His longest and stat padding yards came from a broken play where he got away. Smith is a Rookie (3rd round pick) and is still learning what it takes in the NFL. I was high on Smith before the season, but I passed on him during draft day. Smith did not run away with the #1 position during camp...Bell was projected for a long time to be the #1 (despite the fact that he sucks).Lions worked out Rudi and there is no effects of the injury...its more likely Cinci cut Rudi because of salary and not because Perry beat him out.Kitna has played with Rudi, Rod likes Rudi, and Rod likes Veteran players. Our #1 pick and our #2 pick are both not in the starting lineup as Rod believes in bringing rookies along slowly.Right now its up to how fast Rudi picks up the playbook...he may even start week 1 IMO.BTW I picked up Rudi on waivers last night. Spent my #10 waiver pick just to be sure as the guy with #12 had smith.

 

[captbly]

Can I vote for Jerome Felton? Smith will get most of the work at first, but when he's not doing much with the limited room to run, because he's not a powerful back, and not a north-south back, then Rudi will get more looks. Smith is definitely the better one to draft and own, because he does have more upside, and could get a big play here and there with the long speed in his glide, but I really don't want to count on the Lions running game if I don't have to.

I like Felton also. Funny thing is the lions never handed him the ball in the preseason.. they passed it to him quite a bit.. who knows I think they may be waiting for the regular season to showcase his running.

 

[MAC_32]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

As a Lions fan that watched every preseason game... Smith did not have very good production. His longest and stat padding yards came from a broken play where he got away.

It's difficult to go anywhere when the oline can't open any sort of hole for him to run through. At least as far as the Browns game is concerned Kevin Smith played incredibly well to get what he did. The Lions oline that game was the worst run blocking unit I have seen in a long time.

 

[captbly]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

As a Lions fan that watched every preseason game... Smith did not have very good production. His longest and stat padding yards came from a broken play where he got away.

It's difficult to go anywhere when the oline can't open any sort of hole for him to run through. At least as far as the Browns game is concerned Kevin Smith played incredibly well to get what he did. The Lions oline that game was the worst run blocking unit I have seen in a long time.

Yes the OLine sucks and I didnt bring it up because they are going to suck for both Smith and Rudi equally. This goes in Rudi's favor if you ask me.I dont know what game you were watching in cleveland....but this was the stat I brought up. Smith had 10 carries for 45 yards and 1 TD. That TD came on the broken play and was a 35 yard TD.. Take that away and he had 9 carries for 10 yards!

 

[jon_mx]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

1. Rudi is an all Pro Running Back who is only 28 years old, so still has 2-3 good years left if healthy.2. Hamstring injury is serious and takes time to recover, but it is something that can be fully recovered from without diminishing skills.3. Smith has not been impressive in preseason, and has no NFL experience that establishes him as a proven back.My money is on Rudi to get more carries, more yards, more receptions, and definitely more TD's. The only thing that would stop Rudi is the health of his hamstring. Smith will be given first chance, but really has little chance at producing enough to keep Rudi off the field. Rudi will get his chances and take over, IMHO. I own neither, but am just a lifelong Lions fans. I am betting that most people trashing Rudi are Smith owners.

 

[sholditch]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

I have nothing to go on other than Rudi's multiple pro-bowl seasons, but I think he will beat out the rookie for the starting job by week 3 and will have the better season. If he hasn't done it by week 3 or earlier he won't beat him all year.

 

[gianmarco]

That TD came on the broken play and was a 35 yard TD.. Take that away and he had 9 carries for 10 yards!

I'll let someone else do the honors........

 

[Cookiemonster]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

I have nothing to go on other than Rudi's multiple pro-bowl seasons, but I think he will beat out the rookie for the starting job by week 3 and will have the better season. If he hasn't done it by week 3 or earlier he won't beat him all year.

Pretty much how I'm leaning. Smith is a good prospect, but Rudi is a proven commodity (if he isn't burnt out). If Rudi returns to full health, I'd expect him to take over the majority of carries but not by a wide margin. Smith starts week 1 while Rudi familiarizes himself w/ the playbook and gets another week for the hammy to recover. Week 2 becomes closer to 50-50 and week 3 Rudi becomes the 60-40 back. Remains that way 'till Rudi either gets dinged, or proves that he's still starter quality and signs somewhere else next year.

 

[BroadwayG]

Rudi. Smith was basically an afterthought predraft. Detroit isn't exactly the Mecca of NFL RB prowess, yet almost everyone's wetting themselves over him. I'll take the guy that has some experience on mediocre teams facing tough defenses.

 

[MAC_32]

27 people so far have voted for Rudi, but very few of them have backed up their vote in this thread. I would like to hear from them.

As a Lions fan that watched every preseason game... Smith did not have very good production. His longest and stat padding yards came from a broken play where he got away.

It's difficult to go anywhere when the oline can't open any sort of hole for him to run through. At least as far as the Browns game is concerned Kevin Smith played incredibly well to get what he did. The Lions oline that game was the worst run blocking unit I have seen in a long time.

Yes the OLine sucks and I didnt bring it up because they are going to suck for both Smith and Rudi equally. This goes in Rudi's favor if you ask me.I dont know what game you were watching in cleveland....but this was the stat I brought up. Smith had 10 carries for 45 yards and 1 TD. That TD came on the broken play and was a 35 yard TD.. Take that away and he had 9 carries for 10 yards!

...and his only other positive carry was a 9 yarder...off a similar broken play. The difference being the outside defender (think it was Adams) didn't over pursue Smith on that carry and contained him to 9 yards. So on non-broken runs he had 8 carries for exactly 1 yard, the oline was that bad. No non-elite RB would have done any better, Smith played great to get what he did.

 

[ookook]

My vote was based on someone who has shown they can be an adequate (if not exceptional) RB in the NFL versus someone who has not.

This board is renown for the pro-rookie bias. But base rate says that most rookie RBs do not produce their first season, whether due to lack of opportunity of ability.

I am assuming based on what both the Beangals and Lions have said that Rudi looks okay at this point.

But we have a bunch of tools around here that say little more than "Dude, he is done, stick a fork" for anyone from Rudi Johnson to Ahman Green.

Players injured the previously year are routinely undervalued, rookies are almost always overvalued.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

Before Mid Year Rudi, if healthy, will be toting the rock

 

[sholditch]

My vote was based on someone who has shown they can be an adequate (if not exceptional) RB in the NFL versus someone who has not. This board is renown for the pro-rookie bias. But base rate says that most rookie RBs do not produce their first season, whether due to lack of opportunity of ability. I am assuming based on what both the Beangals and Lions have said that Rudi looks okay at this point. But we have a bunch of tools around here that say little more than "Dude, he is done, stick a fork" for anyone from Rudi Johnson to Ahman Green. Players injured the previously year are routinely undervalued, rookies are almost always overvalued.

Same thing going on with White/Johnson and McGahee/RiceETA: Smith pulling away with 99 votes to Rudi's 54

 

[davper]

I dont know what game you were watching in cleveland....but this was the stat I brought up. Smith had 10 carries for 45 yards and 1 TD. That TD came on the broken play and was a 35 yard TD.. Take that away and he had 9 carries for 10 yards!

So are you saying those 7+ points don't count in fantasy because it was a fluke?Most drafted this guy as rb3 or 4 as a bye week fill-in.

 

[jon_mx]

I dont know what game you were watching in cleveland....but this was the stat I brought up. Smith had 10 carries for 45 yards and 1 TD. That TD came on the broken play and was a 35 yard TD.. Take that away and he had 9 carries for 10 yards!

So are you saying those 7+ points don't count in fantasy because it was a fluke?

It is preseason, so no it doesn't count. When Smith starts making 35 yard TD runs in the regular season....

 

[teamroc]

29 year old RB, cut from an NFL team in the preseason. Had a ton of injuries last year. The guy has taken an insane amount of punishment, he probably doesn't have a lot left in the tank. At least the Bengal’s believe he doesn't.

Rudi is there to help, give some veteran depth, take the load off a rookie. I don't really see him being a huge player this year. The team that knows him best just cut him. This isn't Denver. And Rudi isn't the future, he's probably not the present.

I actually think its a big help to 24K. Rudi can help him, teach him, take the load off him a little. A huge upgrade over Tatum Bell. The NFL kills rookie RBs, even the highly touted AP got beat up in limited touches.

 

[Saint]

Ugly all year.

Smith at first with some Rudi time, as Rudi needs to learn the offense... Then I believe more balanced 50/50 as the rookie learns from the Veteran. I can understand the whole veteran stuff, but at the same time, the Lions drafted the guy as their future RB. Gotta get him in the game somehow. I just don't see either side winning in this. Both players will disappoint.

 

[Bobcat10]

Smith, but Rudi in the 20th round last night was worth a shot to me.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Ugly all year.Smith at first with some Rudi time, as Rudi needs to learn the offense... Then I believe more balanced 50/50 as the rookie learns from the Veteran. I can understand the whole veteran stuff, but at the same time, the Lions drafted the guy as their future RB. Gotta get him in the game somehow. I just don't see either side winning in this. Both players will disappoint.

1st pick of the 3rd round, right? That's not ususally where teams try to find their franchise RB. Sure, it happens. But WR is way more important in the 1st... always!

 

[KellysHeroes]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

as I said in the other thread now is the time to get smith. His value is as low as it will be on this news. What do you think it'll take?

The time to Buy Smith will be after the 1st couple of weeks in the season when he, and any other Det RB is sporting a 3.2 YPC.Sell high before the season opens up.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I don't think anyone can answer this question, because no one here knows for sure if Rudi's healthy and what the last 12 months of injury have done to him.

But if he's fully healthy and done with that 215 pound experiment disaster he could still be light years better than Smith.

 

[BigRed]

Can I vote for Jerome Felton? Smith will get most of the work at first, but when he's not doing much with the limited room to run, because he's not a powerful back, and not a north-south back, then Rudi will get more looks.

? I thought DET did the zone blocking thing now, which favors more of a cutback style. Anyway it won't matter; I drafted Smith so Rudi is a lock for a rebound year. (trust me it's more logical given my RB past than at least half the reasons given here to prefer Rudi)

 

[-jb-]

The Lions saw enough from Kevin Smith to keep TWO tailbacks on the 53-man roster, and then replaced one of them (Bell) with another veteran. They've also added Marcus Thomas I realize since the initial cuts. Bottom line, Rudi Johnson couldn't make the Bengals and was beaten out by Chris Perry. Does anyone really think he's going to handily outperform Kevin Smith at this point? I'm just not seeing it.

as I said in the other thread now is the time to get smith. His value is as low as it will be on this news. What do you think it'll take?

The time to Buy Smith will be after the 1st couple of weeks in the season when he, and any other Det RB is sporting a 3.2 YPC.Sell high before the season opens up.

ain't happening. there are clearly two sides to posture from during a trade negotiation now, so his value will be higher after week 1 when rudi gets 3 touches.btw, does anyone know how much rudi signed for? the comment that millen made about "he knows where we are at" makes me think that he wasn't going to get much money...which might speak to a diminished role.

 

[encaitar]

I am one who thinks Rudi will outproduce Smith this year. First, learning the playbook isn't as difficult for a RB as other positions, because he's really only concerned about which hole he's supposed to hit and most playcalls allude to that in their name. Second, he supposedly came into camp 20 lbs heavier than last season with less body fat(which means he worked his ### off this offseason). Third, he now has a lot to prove as he's playing for a paycheck next season. Finally, he's proven he can run behind a terrible O-line and produce as he did in Cinci.

Now that doesn't mean I think he'll be a top 20 back, but honesty neither of these guys should be starting for your fantasy team.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

To see people say "Rudi is nothing" just baffles me, makes me question the people on this site!

1300+ yards and 12 td's each of the 3 years before this past year, which oh BTW he was injured!!!

It's a hammy, if he was hurt that bad, he would not of passed a physical!!!

Rudi and his track record against a Rookie who has not played a meaningful down.....

Its just stupid to right Rudi off!!!

 

[bucsbaby]

let's assume for a minute that rudi doesn't factor in heavily game 1 because he is getting adjusted.

how many total touches do you predict for smith week 1 vs. Atl (not a great rushing defense or defense in general)?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Much of Rudi's success was part of Guys named Ocho, TJ Housh, Carson Palmer, & some of Chris Henry... plus Cinny O-Line wasn't that bad a yr or 2 ago.

Now I know Det's WR are very Talented... very comparable to Cinny's; but Kitna is no Palmer... and Det's O-Line is in the bottom 5.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Much of Rudi's success was part of Guys named Ocho, TJ Housh, Carson Palmer, & some of Chris Henry... plus Cinny O-Line wasn't that bad a yr or 2 ago.Now I know Det's WR are very Talented... very comparable to Cinny's; but Kitna is no Palmer... and Det's O-Line is in the bottom 5.

Umm your right, but Kitna was the QB the first couple years of Rudi's success in Cincy!!!Check your stat book!!!

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I just posted the below cut n paste in another thread ...didnt see this thread...so i am re-posting it

by Tom Kowalski Tuesday September 02, 2008, 2:56 PM

Rudi Johnson won't proclaim himself the No. 1 running back -- not yet -- but he does say he's fit and ready to play on Sunday.

Johnson, the former Cincinnati Bengals star, was signed as a free agent by the Detroit Lions on Monday and spent the last 24 hours in the Lions playbook in anticipation for Sunday's opener against the Atlanta Falcons. Johnson said the hamstring injury that limited him in preseason isn't a factor because he was gearing himself toward being completely healthy by opening day.

Rookie Kevin Smith is the current starting running back on the team and Johnson said he's not the one who makes the determination about who is No. 1 and who is No. 2.

"That's for the coaches to decide,'' Johnson said this afternoon. "My main thing is to go out and contribute and make plays and give this team a tough, physical mindset. Right now, I'm behind a little bit as far as the playbook so that's my main focus going into this week.''

Johnson, who said he expects to play this week, signed a one-year contract with the Lions and he knows he's on a one-year audition, not just with the Lions but the rest of the league as well.

"That's what I do, I go out and I work hard. You can check my background, I've always been a hard worker who earns what he gets,'' Johnson said. "This is nothing to me, I've been doing this forever, so for me to go out and earn something, that's what I do and I look forward to doing it.''

As far as the competition with Smith, Johnson -- who has rushed for more than 1,000 yards three times in his career -- said he'll let it play out.

"From now on, whatever happens, happens,'' he said. "I'm just looking to come in and be a big contributor. The main thing is learning and getting ready and I'm a firm believer that if I go out and do my part and do what I'm supposed to do, with the talent I bring to the table, everything will take care of itself. I believe in myself.''

 

[bucsbaby]

<sigh> I drafted Kevin Smith because I felt he had a favourable opportunity