Running Backs who try to get their QB killed (1 Viewer)

[smackdaddies]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

 

[DiStefano]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Given the MN QB's, who can blame them?

 

[Heatman]

Of course the O-lines have nothing to do with these stats. The Min O-line was so horrible no wonder the backs had trouble, when you have to decide which one of the three guys coming at you to block vs. one guy coming from where you might expect it skews stats like these. To me this means nothing as I highly doubt Stewart was the worst back in the league at protecting his QB.

 

[Faust]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Interesting. It could be part of the reason why Jonathan Stewart has been a RBBC back for his entire career and why he hasn't evolved into a bell cow RB so far.

 

[BroadwayG]

Rank	Name	        Current Team Pass Prot	Sacks	Hits	Hurries	Tot	PBE1	Jonathan Stewart	CAR	182	6	5	14	25	88.872	Jerome Harrison	        DET	105	4	1	6	11	91.193	Reggie Bush	        MIA	130	3	4	7	14	91.354	Maurice Morris	        FA	121	4	0	8	12	91.745	Knowshon Moreno	        DEN	143	2	2	11	15	91.786	Chris D. Johnson	TEN	251	1	2	24	27	91.837	Toby Gerhart	        MIN	108	1	1	9	11	92.138	Adrian L. Peterson	MIN	212	3	6	12	21	92.229	Rashard Mendenhall	PIT	148	4	3	7	14	92.2310	Beanie Wells	        ARZ	149	3	3	8	14	92.45

 

[Kleck]

Always interesting to see these sort of stats.

Not surprised one bit to see Jones-Drew on the good list. IMO, he's the best all-purpose RB in the league.

 

[RUSF18]

I'll go out on a limb and say more info is needed before coming to the conclusion portrayed in the subject line.

 

[smackdaddies]

I'll go out on a limb and say more info is needed before coming to the conclusion portrayed in the subject line.

This is the shark pool. Pretty sure those stats are more than enough to support whatever wild haired idea i have!

 

[Yenrub]

I believe that Ahmad Bradshaw was the best RB in terms of protecting the QB

 

[jtd13]

Maybe Stewart wants his goalline carries back.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I'll go out on a limb and say more info is needed before coming to the conclusion portrayed in the subject line.

Agreed, hard to make any conclusions from this. As Heatman mentioned, the article says nothing about O-line strength; the worse the O-line, the more difficult the blocking assignments will be for the RB. It also doesn't say anything about how they determine what a pass blocking play is; if the RB's job is to chip the defender and then go out into the flat but that defender ends up sacking the QB, is the RB getting penalized for that in these statistics?

 

[Borden]

Did anyone look at those stats?

Chris Johnson gave up 1 sack and 2 hits on 251 protects and he is considered the 6th worst.

This breakdown is a joke.

 

[flc735]

Did anyone look at those stats?Chris Johnson gave up 1 sack and 2 hits on 251 protects and he is considered the 6th worst. This breakdown is a joke.

you missed one. he gave up the most hurries by a long shot. a qb with a quick release and good pocket awarness will be able to turn those would-be sacks or hits into hurries. it makes sense since hasselback is an old man that probably made the extra effort to get the ball out and protect himself more than a cam newton would

 

[packseasontix]

When you think about this though its an extremly small amount of time when someone gets through, let alone gets actually to the QB.

How do they determine the RB was supposed to fully pass-block, that the RB was assigned to the guy that got to the QB, and after that if the QB held the ball too long.

In reality I would take even stewart as he would give up less than 1 sack or hit a game for the season, if you think about a QB dropping back 40 times a game that is only about 2%.

 

[Borden]

Did anyone look at those stats?Chris Johnson gave up 1 sack and 2 hits on 251 protects and he is considered the 6th worst. This breakdown is a joke.

you missed one. he gave up the most hurries by a long shot. a qb with a quick release and good pocket awarness will be able to turn those would-be sacks or hits into hurries. it makes sense since hasselback is an old man that probably made the extra effort to get the ball out and protect himself more than a cam newton would

Hurries are to much of a grey area. There is too many other factors at play but the main point is that the back did enough to keep his QB from getting hit. Ask any Broncos fan this year if they'd rather give up one sack/hit or 15 hurries? If these rankings included missed blocks it would be a lot more creditable.

 

[flc735]

When you think about this though its an extremly small amount of time when someone gets through, let alone gets actually to the QB.How do they determine the RB was supposed to fully pass-block, that the RB was assigned to the guy that got to the QB, and after that if the QB held the ball too long.In reality I would take even stewart as he would give up less than 1 sack or hit a game for the season, if you think about a QB dropping back 40 times a game that is only about 2%.

it doesn't seem like much but it is significant. first, i'd think 182 pass protections doesnt mean 182 blocks. it probably means he was involved in 182 pass plays where he didn't go out for a route. some of those plays are screens, quick passes, or facing blitz'. that means out of 182 tries, he may have only had to block a player 60 or so times.so giving 6 sacks with 60 opportunities is significant. if you give up a sack on 2nd and 5, it usually means the difference between 3-7 points and 0 points.its why LTs get paid so much. if you give up 8 sacks in a season, you are cut. if you give up 4 sacks in a season, you are signing a 20 million dollar contract

 

[Mr.Underhill]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Interesting. It could be part of the reason why Jonathan Stewart has been a RBBC back for his entire career and why he hasn't evolved into a bell cow RB so far.

Yet he gets all those receptions compared to DeAngelo.

Some claim Stewart is a superior blocker to DeAngelo. Could it be that they merely assume that to be the case based on his higher number of catches? If so, this would seem to mean that the Carolina RB's tend to have route vs. blocking responsibility assigned by play call than by pre-snap read. And if that's the case, how could that not be telegraphing to the defense?

Or is this just an example of PFF using flawed methodology?

 

[jurb26]

This seems like a pretty unreliable measure. It's entertaining none the less though.

 

[Mr.Underhill]

I'll go out on a limb and say more info is needed before coming to the conclusion portrayed in the subject line.

Agreed, hard to make any conclusions from this. As Heatman mentioned, the article says nothing about O-line strength; the worse the O-line, the more difficult the blocking assignments will be for the RB. It also doesn't say anything about how they determine what a pass blocking play is; if the RB's job is to chip the defender and then go out into the flat but that defender ends up sacking the QB, is the RB getting penalized for that in these statistics?

Your comments about O-line may be true. But if that was the predominant factor, you would expect RB's from the same team to rank similarly.For instance: Where was DeAngelo on the list? Stewart gets more catches, but they seem to use the two somewhat interchangeably in terms of down and distance, though perhaps not in the actual plays that get called.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Interesting. It could be part of the reason why Jonathan Stewart has been a RBBC back for his entire career and why he hasn't evolved into a bell cow RB so far.

Yet he was used as the third down back last year?I think its more due to the fact than D'Angelo Williams is a pretty good talent in his ownright.

 

[sgcolin]

This actually worries me a bit about Stewart, because I can see him losing the 3rd down job to Tolbert. Also a good receiver and can block better. The whole Panthers backfield is just such a mess with 4 different rushing threats.

 

[3nOut]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

I also originally thought there may be a correlatin to this list and pass-catching RBs. Here are the top 10 receiving RBs by number of receptions. A number of players in smackdaddies' list were injured and thus do not appear on this list so this may not be a completely accurate indication. A better list would be one that ranks RBs by % of receptions vs. rushes.Only stewart and Johnson appear on both lists.

Player		Team	ReceptionsD Sproles  	NO  	86  R Rice  	BAL  	76   C Johnson  	TEN  	57   M Tolbert  	SD  	54  A Foster  	HOU  	53   M Forte  	CHI  	52   R Mathews  	SD  	50  P Thomas  	NO  	50  L McCoy  	PHI  	48  J Stewart  	CAR  	47

 

[Lord Fantasy]

God Dammit, Donald!

 

[cvnpoka]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Interesting. It could be part of the reason why Jonathan Stewart has been a RBBC back for his entire career and why he hasn't evolved into a bell cow RB so far.

funny thing is that stewart was the rb used on passing downs last year for the panthers.

 

[Biabreakable]

From over at Pro Football Focus a three year summary of the worst RB at protecting their QB

Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PBE

1 Jonathan Stewart CAR 182 6 5 14 25 88.87

2 Jerome Harrison DET 105 4 1 6 11 91.19

3 Reggie Bush MIA 130 3 4 7 14 91.35

4 Maurice Morris FA 121 4 0 8 12 91.74

5 Knowshon Moreno DEN 143 2 2 11 15 91.78

6 Chris D. Johnson TEN 251 1 2 24 27 91.83

7 Toby Gerhart MIN 108 1 1 9 11 92.13

8 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 212 3 6 12 21 92.22

9 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 148 4 3 7 14 92.23

10 Beanie Wells ARZ 149 3 3 8 14 92.45

Some you might expect, some you don't. What struck me was how bad the MN RB are - both Gerhart and Peterson should be called Matadoor

Interesting. It could be part of the reason why Jonathan Stewart has been a RBBC back for his entire career and why he hasn't evolved into a bell cow RB so far.

That is something that held DeAngelo back in his early career also.

 

[sspunisher]

Maybe Stewart wants his goalline carries back.

Hahaha

 

[bonesman]

God Dammit, Donald!

Ha... first thing that came to mind when I read the thread title. That was a classic.

 

[az_prof]

Of course the O-lines have nothing to do with these stats. The Min O-line was so horrible no wonder the backs had trouble, when you have to decide which one of the three guys coming at you to block vs. one guy coming from where you might expect it skews stats like these. To me this means nothing as I highly doubt Stewart was the worst back in the league at protecting his QB.

This is a great argument and explains why correlation does not equal causation. In this case, there is a correlation between a HB and his QB being sacked. But there are other variables, not least of which is the OL. If the OL picks up the players they are supposed to pick up, then the HB has to pick up the blitzer, or whomever is unaccounted for. That's very different than the OL being a sieve and the HB facing two or more defenders. The QB is a variable too as some guys get rid of the ball quicker or are more elusive than others.