Ryan Mathews....no respect?....get on this hype train (1 Viewer)

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

A) Again, how does he get no respect?B) Why do the Mathews supporters act like such tools? Tone it down a bit guys.

A) B/c most in this pool has chatted about CJ's speed or Best's elusive style/speed or Dwyers size/speed combo and the offense he played in holding him back. Not a lot of Mathews talk...perhaps I should take out the no respect part?B) Please show me where I have been a tool. I have present more facts in an argument then most FBG's in their debates and attempted to be the most respectful that I can. I am actually pretty offended to be called TOOL for this thread. I think Big Tex and me have a good argument and have differences...and its fun going back and forth.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

A) Again, how does he get no respect?B) Why do the Mathews supporters act like such tools? Tone it down a bit guys.

A) B/c most in this pool has chatted about CJ's speed or Best's elusive style/speed or Dwyers size/speed combo and the offense he played in holding him back. Not a lot of Mathews talk...perhaps I should take out the no respect part?B) Please show me where I have been a tool. I have present more facts in an argument then most FBG's in their debates and attempted to be the most respectful that I can. I am actually pretty offended to be called TOOL for this thread. I think Big Tex and me have a good argument and have differences...and its fun going back and forth.

I wasn't talking to you. I've made this point in other Mathews threads here in the past.

 

[BigTex]

Ok lets review here.

-You stated that Mathews got his stats in garbage time when games were out of hand.

I proved that false...and also showed that many of the games were very close most of the time.

-The stats argument is funny as well.

Career Seasons Played:

Spiller- 4

Mathews -3

Career Games Played:

Spiller- 52

Mathews- 31

So attempting to write in career numbers are irrelevant...just like using kick returning or punt returning stats. Mathews can't compare b/c he didn't have even close to the same amount of games or return kicks.

Career Rushing TD's

Spiller-32

Mathews-39

-Wait a minute....Mathews has more rushing TD's...despite playing in 21 less games than Spiller and having 72 less carries. Crazy....thats not EVERY STAT.

Career Rushing Average

Spiller- 5.85

Mathews- 6.14

This past year rushing numbers-

Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19

Spillers rushing average was best his Freshman year and went down significantly.

Spiller by year:

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

-Oh....his name is CJ Spiller....not CJ4....its annoying that these guys get all these silly nicknames, especially when they are unearned

-You believe that ALL PURPOSE yards mean something when playing RB and I don't....I don't get why a "stud RB" would be doing this at the next level and why it would even matter in the evaluation process.

-Also...why would his throwing TD's matter......seriously

-Then you discuss the conference difference(ACC vs WAC)...(shouldn't the run defenses matter more than the conference?) when I have shown the run defensive stats in two different ways.

1) By rushing average the defense gave up for the season

Spiller in 2009:

TCU- 2.6

Wake Forest- 4.6

Florida State- 5.4

Georgia Tech- 4.9

Mathews in 2009:

UC- Davis(they are irrevelant b/c they aren't FBS)

@Wisconsin- 2.9

Boise State- 3.8

@Cinci- 3.6

@Hawaii- 4.9

San Jose St- 6.1

@New Mexico St- 5.6

Utah State- 5.3

@Idaho- 4.7

@Illinois- 4.2

Wyoming- 4.4

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

2) By rushing defense ranking...which is relative to carries but I still broke it down for you.

Game 1- Middle Tennessee 50th ranked run D - 4 for 12 yards

Game 2- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 87

Game 3- Boston College 14th run D -17 for 77

Game 4- TCU 3rd run D -26 for 112 1 TD

Game 5- Maryland 66th run D - 18 for 72

Game 6- Wake Forest 82nd run D - 9 for 106 2 TDs

Game 7- Miami(FL) 32nd run D - 14 for 81

Game 8- Coastal Carolina (non BCS school) - 5 for 27 1 TD

Game 9- Florida State 108th run D - 22 for 165 1 TD

Game 10- NC State 57th run D - 18 for 97 1 TD

Game 11- Virginia 95th run D - 19 for 58 1 TD

Game 12- South Carolina 52nd run D - 9 for 18

Game 13- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 233 4 TD

Game 14- Kentucky 100th ranked run D - 15 for 67 1 TD

So he faced the 3rd, 14th, 32nd, 50th, 52nd, 57th, 66th, 68th, 68th, 82nd, 95th, 100th, 108th, and a non-FBS school.

Mathews

Game 1-UC Davis non-FBS - 11 for 106 1 TD

Game 2-Wisconsin 5th Run D - 19 for 107

Game 3-Boise State 28th Run D - 19 for 234 3 TDs

Game 4-Cincinatti 61st Run D - 38 for 145 1 TD

Game 5-hawaii 107th Run D - 24 for 149 1 TD

Game 6-San Jose State 119th Run D - 20 for 233 1 TD

Game 7-New Mexico State 114th Run D - 25 for 157 2 TDs

Game 8-Utah State 110th Run D - 23 for 185 2 TDs

Game 9-Idaho 77th Run D - 26 for 143 3 TDs

Game 10-Nevada 22nd Run D - 8 for 32 (got injured in the 2nd quarter)

Game 11-Did not play

Game 12-Illinois 76th Run D - 32 for 173 3 TDs

Game 13-Wyoming 93rd Run D - 31 for 144 2 TDs

So he faced the 5th, 22nd, 28th, 61st, 76th, 77th, 93rd, 107th, 110th, 114th, 119th, and a non-FBS school.

Spiller faced better run defenses...but its not by THAT much.

The weird thing I see there is one RB that had a few good games....while the other showed up every game(outside of being injured).

Then you said "But they were the weakiest of the weak, we've already looked at that."

This is your comeback to one RB producing and one not? Spiller only had 4 100 yard games his SR year...while Mathews had 11. Despite facing just slightly easier run defenses.

-I was wrong about the age(its one of the few stats I haven't looked up)....I assumed b/c Matt is a JR and CJ is SR...I thought he was older.

-Comparing him to James Davis...simply shows that another RB put up numbers at Clemson and it wasn't THAT SPECIAL.

-The CLEAR difference between the two is that Davis's numbers took a nose dive from his junior yr as CJ4 numbers went to Jupiter.(direct quote from you)

Spiller

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews #'s weren't Jupiter(whatever context you mean that)

FR-145 for 866 6.0 14

SO-113 for 606 5.4 6

JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19

-Comparing him to McFadden shows that speed(and his combine 40 time) aren't everything that matters at the next level.

-Level of Competition

Along with that is Spiller has better talent around him as well....don't you agree? Mathews is more of a marked man in Fresno...its a disadvantage to not have a better QB or a WR running a 4.3.

The argument goes both ways....discounting it is ignorant.

What's up Led the Way, I'll take a closer look at this tomorrow. I had therapy today and it's been an exhausting day. P.S.

It wasn't my impression to say that ALL his yards were in garbage time, at some point I gave that impression. That's INSANE! I only saw maybe two of Frenso's games and he didn't stand out to me. I still place him 3 or 4 behind Spiller, Best, and I can't choose between Matthews and Dwyer.

Dwyer played in gimmick style offense, I want to know can he play in a pro style offense. At this point I know Matthews has experience in this area.

Well, I'll get back 2morrow.

 

[BigTex]

BIG TEX, you say that his numbers come in garbage time??? Did you ever actually watch any of his games?

(Matthews) Leads the NCAA in rushing by more than 25 yards per game (161.6 yards per game)... has two of the Top 10 rushing games in the NCAA this season, 234 yards against No. 5 Boise State and San Jose State, those games rank third and fourth in Bulldog history, respectively... against the Broncos he score on runs of 69, 68 and 60 yards and a averaged 12.3 yards per carry... leads the NCAA win seven runs of 50-yards or more (69, 68, 68, 60, 59, 58, 55).... set a school record with seven straight 100-yard plus games... had 104 yards in the first half against UC Davis in the season opener and never played in the second half... had a career-high 38 carries for 145 yards against No. 7 Cincinnati... only played two plays in the fourth quarter in the last three games combined, both against New Mexico State in a 157-yard two touchdown performance... didn't play in the fourth quarter at Hawaii or San Jose State in Fresno State's large wins

SO to sum it up: He had a combined total of only 2 carries in the fourth quarter in 6 of his 12 games and he still led the nation in rushing! Please tell me again how he was getting all of those yards in garbage time???

This is too easy to pick apart but I won't, I'm tired and I have my hands full with Led the Way, LMAO.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score.

We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

 

[inzanitee]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score. We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[BigTex]

A) Again, how does he get no respect?B) Why do the Mathews supporters act like such tools? Tone it down a bit guys.

CB, some people resort to these type of tactics when they can't provide viable stats or numbers to support their argument at least you'll know where they are coming from. Some of these people tend to be Bandwagon Riders who don't know where the wagon is going and who's in control. They tend to go along for the ride but eventually disappear. I truly miss the days of old when posters provided information which challenged your way of thinking or even shed light on things you'd never think of. This board is not what it used to be which is why I mainly post more during the off season when most are gone and only the Dynasty or the true Fantasy Ballers are getting ready for next season. When the season starts the tools really come out and they'll only result to insulting to the point of banishment. With all that said, we still have some good posters and people who are very helpful that mean well.Getty Up,Tex

 

[nightmare]

This is why we all love the shark pool with FF season over.

Thank you, Tex and Benson.

 

[BigTex]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score. We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

Thank you!!This is EXACTLY what I've been saying to those that say he can't run between the tackles. He could if he had an oline that could block. If you actually watch the games of the players yourself you'll SEE the truth for yourself. Often times he had no place to run so he'd use his speed to get around the edge and instead of negative yards he'd gain 20-60 yards LOL. It's call VISION, something you want your running back to have and it can't be taught.:rantover:

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score. We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

Thank you!!This is EXACTLY what I've been saying to those that say he can't run between the tackles. He could if he had an oline that could block. If you actually watch the games of the players yourself you'll SEE the truth for yourself. Often times he had no place to run so he'd use his speed to get around the edge and instead of negative yards he'd gain 20-60 yards LOL. It's call VISION, something you want your running back to have and it can't be taught.:rantover:

Yeah I agree that there really is nothing that can match watching the games instead of just highlights. I was just watching the drive at the end of the first half and he had several really nice runs up the middle where he looked pretty good in a tighter space and one run where he really was churning his legs and actually sort of ran through a couple of defenders at the end of the run for a couple of extra yards. Now, that's certainly not his game and a couple of plays later he took a naked pitch about 48 yards for a TD just using pure speed. But I think he can run inside and in traffic a little better than some people think. And I'm not in this thread to rip on Mathews. I think he's a great RB and I may be taking him with the 3rd pick in my Dynasty league. I just think Spiller is better than the "all outside, game doesn't translate to the NFL" player that I see here sometimes.

 

[BigTex]

I'm going to kill the level of competition argument once and for all.

The Proof is in the Pudding (ACC>>>>>>>>>>WAC)

1. Players drafted by the NFL out of each conference, 2006 was Spiller's Freshman year, Matthews was in high school.

a. ACC 2006 (51), 2007 (31), 2008 (34), 2009 (33)

b. WAC 2007 (17), 2008 (7), 2009 (10)

2. Number of draftees in the first three rounds since 2007

a. ACC produced 17 1st rounders, 10 2nd rounders, 15 3rd rounders

b.WAC produced 1 1st rounder, 4 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders

3. 2010 Pro Bowlers -- starters, reserves, injured players, injury replacements, Super Bowl participants sitting out.

ACC (23)

a.QB: Matt Schaub, Virginia

b.QB: Philip Rivers, N.C. State

c.RB: Frank Gore, Miami

d.WR: Andre Johnson, Miami

e.WR: Reggie Wayne, Miami

f.TE: Vernon Davis, Maryland

g.TE: Heath Miller, Virginia

h.C: Jeff Saturday, North Carolina

i.OG: Chris Snee, Boston College

j.OT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia

k.OT: Bryant McKinnie, Miami

l.DE: Mario Williams, N.C. State

m.DE: Julius Peppers, North Carolina

n.DT: Darnell Dockett, Florida State

o.DT: Vince Wilfork, Miami

p.LB: Ray Lewis, Miami

q.LB: Jonathan Vilma, Miami

r.SS: Brian Dawkins, Clemson

s.SS: Adrian Wilson, N.C. State

t.FS: Ed Reed, Miami

u.FS: Brandon Meriweather, Miami

v.FS: Antrel Rolle, Miami

w.Long Snapper: Jon Condo, Maryland

x.Bottom Line: The ACC is the only conference that could field an entire offense and defense.

WAC (3)

a.OG: Logan Mankins, Fresno State

b.OT: Ryan Clady, Boise State

c.SS: Quintin Mikell, Boise State

5.National Championships

Prior to the 1998 season, the Divsion I-A national championship was awarded, by the AP and various other polling organizations. The only thing any team "won" was a popularity contest. The big bowl games rarely pitted the best teams against each other, and in any event, until the 1970s, were played after the national championship was awarded. It was only with the establishment of the BCS that teams actually had to win the national championship, on the field. Since that time, SEC teams have won 6 national championships. No other conference has won more than 2 (Big 12, and ACC, if you include Miami's national championship in the ACC total, even though they were not part of the ACC at that time). The Big 10 and Pac 10 have one each (Ohio State and USC). The Big East has one, but only if you count Miami's national championship, since Miami was in the Big East at the time they won it. So:

If you go with conference affiliation at the time of the championship:

SEC (6)

Big 12 (2)

ACC (1)

Big 10 (1)

Big East (1)

Pac 10 (1)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

If you go with current conference affiliation:

SEC (6)

ACC (2)

Big 12 (2)

Big 10 (1)

Pac 10 (1)

Big East (0)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

CASE CLOSED!

Now since you missed these questions I'll simply ask them again:

From a career standpoint, *True or False*

Spiller has more TDs

Spiller has more carries

Spiller has more rushing yards

Spiller is faster

Spiller has more catches

Spiller has more receiving yards

Spiller has more all-purpose yards

What other numbers are there?

I'll patiently wait.



ETA: I made the decision not to show MVPs and Superbowls from each conference because I felt beyond this point it's not really necessary. ;-)

 

[nightmare]

Big Tex, We didn't miss the question about the total's.

It's irrelevant since Spiller has played a year longer.

Bell cow (NFL) RB's don't do punt or kick returns.

Until we see which team takes who and what their needs

are, I think you guys are just going in circles.

 

[cobalt_27]

Dwyer is the best RB in this year's class.

Mathews might be #2 or 3, though.

 

[dickey moe]

Bakersfield represent!

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'm going to kill the level of competition argument once and for all.

The Proof is in the Pudding (ACC>>>>>>>>>>WAC)

1. Players drafted by the NFL out of each conference, 2006 was Spiller's Freshman year, Matthews was in high school.

a. ACC 2006 (51), 2007 (31), 2008 (34), 2009 (33)

b. WAC 2007 (17), 2008 (7), 2009 (10)

2. Number of draftees in the first three rounds since 2007

a. ACC produced 17 1st rounders, 10 2nd rounders, 15 3rd rounders

b.WAC produced 1 1st rounder, 4 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders

3. 2010 Pro Bowlers -- starters, reserves, injured players, injury replacements, Super Bowl participants sitting out.

ACC (23)

a.QB: Matt Schaub, Virginia

b.QB: Philip Rivers, N.C. State

c.RB: Frank Gore, Miami

d.WR: Andre Johnson, Miami

e.WR: Reggie Wayne, Miami

f.TE: Vernon Davis, Maryland

g.TE: Heath Miller, Virginia

h.C: Jeff Saturday, North Carolina

i.OG: Chris Snee, Boston College

j.OT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia

k.OT: Bryant McKinnie, Miami

l.DE: Mario Williams, N.C. State

m.DE: Julius Peppers, North Carolina

n.DT: Darnell Dockett, Florida State

o.DT: Vince Wilfork, Miami

p.LB: Ray Lewis, Miami

q.LB: Jonathan Vilma, Miami

r.SS: Brian Dawkins, Clemson

s.SS: Adrian Wilson, N.C. State

t.FS: Ed Reed, Miami

u.FS: Brandon Meriweather, Miami

v.FS: Antrel Rolle, Miami

w.Long Snapper: Jon Condo, Maryland

x.Bottom Line: The ACC is the only conference that could field an entire offense and defense.

WAC (3)

a.OG: Logan Mankins, Fresno State

b.OT: Ryan Clady, Boise State

c.SS: Quintin Mikell, Boise State

5.National Championships

Prior to the 1998 season, the Divsion I-A national championship was awarded, by the AP and various other polling organizations. The only thing any team "won" was a popularity contest. The big bowl games rarely pitted the best teams against each other, and in any event, until the 1970s, were played after the national championship was awarded. It was only with the establishment of the BCS that teams actually had to win the national championship, on the field. Since that time, SEC teams have won 6 national championships. No other conference has won more than 2 (Big 12, and ACC, if you include Miami's national championship in the ACC total, even though they were not part of the ACC at that time). The Big 10 and Pac 10 have one each (Ohio State and USC). The Big East has one, but only if you count Miami's national championship, since Miami was in the Big East at the time they won it. So:

If you go with conference affiliation at the time of the championship:

SEC (6)

Big 12 (2)

ACC (1)

Big 10 (1)

Big East (1)

Pac 10 (1)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

If you go with current conference affiliation:

SEC (6)

ACC (2)

Big 12 (2)

Big 10 (1)

Pac 10 (1)

Big East (0)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

CASE CLOSED!

Now since you missed these questions I'll simply ask them again:

From a career standpoint, *True or False*

Spiller has more TDs

Spiller has more carries

Spiller has more rushing yards

Spiller is faster

Spiller has more catches

Spiller has more receiving yards

Spiller has more all-purpose yards

What other numbers are there?

I'll patiently wait.



ETA: I made the decision not to show MVPs and Superbowls from each conference because I felt beyond this point it's not really necessary. ;-)

I appreciate the in-depth research....but the ACC is better than the WAC....I have never stated that otherwise.However, this isn't a question about which conference is better. The question is: How good were the run defenses they each faced(both in conference and out of conference)? Another question is: How did they preform vs those defenses?

To answer your career numbers.

Spiller played in 52 career games

Mathews played in 31 career games.

If you want to figure out Spillers numbers in a 31 game format go ahead....but I already know Mathews has a better career rushing average per game....has more career rushing Td's, etc....so it wouldn't be a good idea to do

This senior bowl is interesting to watch(complete side note)

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score. We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

Thanks for this....perhaps I should break Spiller down further....but that is how I have viewed him.I think what it honestly comes down to...is his attitude running. He wants to run fast. Mathews runs angry.

 

[BigTex]

I'm going to kill the level of competition argument once and for all.

The Proof is in the Pudding (ACC>>>>>>>>>>WAC)

1. Players drafted by the NFL out of each conference, 2006 was Spiller's Freshman year, Matthews was in high school.

a. ACC 2006 (51), 2007 (31), 2008 (34), 2009 (33)

b. WAC 2007 (17), 2008 (7), 2009 (10)

2. Number of draftees in the first three rounds since 2007

a. ACC produced 17 1st rounders, 10 2nd rounders, 15 3rd rounders

b.WAC produced 1 1st rounder, 4 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders

3. 2010 Pro Bowlers -- starters, reserves, injured players, injury replacements, Super Bowl participants sitting out.

ACC (23)

a.QB: Matt Schaub, Virginia

b.QB: Philip Rivers, N.C. State

c.RB: Frank Gore, Miami

d.WR: Andre Johnson, Miami

e.WR: Reggie Wayne, Miami

f.TE: Vernon Davis, Maryland

g.TE: Heath Miller, Virginia

h.C: Jeff Saturday, North Carolina

i.OG: Chris Snee, Boston College

j.OT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia

k.OT: Bryant McKinnie, Miami

l.DE: Mario Williams, N.C. State

m.DE: Julius Peppers, North Carolina

n.DT: Darnell Dockett, Florida State

o.DT: Vince Wilfork, Miami

p.LB: Ray Lewis, Miami

q.LB: Jonathan Vilma, Miami

r.SS: Brian Dawkins, Clemson

s.SS: Adrian Wilson, N.C. State

t.FS: Ed Reed, Miami

u.FS: Brandon Meriweather, Miami

v.FS: Antrel Rolle, Miami

w.Long Snapper: Jon Condo, Maryland

x.Bottom Line: The ACC is the only conference that could field an entire offense and defense.

WAC (3)

a.OG: Logan Mankins, Fresno State

b.OT: Ryan Clady, Boise State

c.SS: Quintin Mikell, Boise State

5.National Championships

Prior to the 1998 season, the Divsion I-A national championship was awarded, by the AP and various other polling organizations. The only thing any team "won" was a popularity contest. The big bowl games rarely pitted the best teams against each other, and in any event, until the 1970s, were played after the national championship was awarded. It was only with the establishment of the BCS that teams actually had to win the national championship, on the field. Since that time, SEC teams have won 6 national championships. No other conference has won more than 2 (Big 12, and ACC, if you include Miami's national championship in the ACC total, even though they were not part of the ACC at that time). The Big 10 and Pac 10 have one each (Ohio State and USC). The Big East has one, but only if you count Miami's national championship, since Miami was in the Big East at the time they won it. So:

If you go with conference affiliation at the time of the championship:

SEC (6)

Big 12 (2)

ACC (1)

Big 10 (1)

Big East (1)

Pac 10 (1)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

If you go with current conference affiliation:

SEC (6)

ACC (2)

Big 12 (2)

Big 10 (1)

Pac 10 (1)

Big East (0)

All other Division I-A Conferences (0)

CASE CLOSED!

Now since you missed these questions I'll simply ask them again:

From a career standpoint, *True or False*

Spiller has more TDs

Spiller has more carries

Spiller has more rushing yards

Spiller is faster

Spiller has more catches

Spiller has more receiving yards

Spiller has more all-purpose yards

What other numbers are there?

I'll patiently wait.



ETA: I made the decision not to show MVPs and Superbowls from each conference because I felt beyond this point it's not really necessary. ;-)

I appreciate the in-depth research....but the ACC is better than the WAC....I have never stated that otherwise.However, this isn't a question about which conference is better. The question is: How good were the run defenses they each faced(both in conference and out of conference)? Another question is: How did they preform vs those defenses?

The primary reason why it's relevant is to show how tough the competition is. Spiller plays in a very tough conference. I agree with your last two questions.

To answer your career numbers.

Spiller played in 52 career games

Mathews played in 31 career games.

If you want to figure out Spillers numbers in a 31 game format go ahead....but I already know Mathews has a better career rushing average per game....has more career rushing Td's, etc....so it wouldn't be a good idea to do

Getty Up

TDs

Spiller (51) #2 in the Nation only Tim Tebow has more with (57)

Matthews: (41) #10 in the Nation, he's tied with Freddie Barnes with (41)

Carries

Spiller (606) #16

Matthews (534) #20

Rushing Yards

Spiller (3547) #5 with 11.7 carries a game

Matthews (3280) #13 with 17.2 carries a game #12

Spiller is faster<-------There's no question, Spiller could spot 15m in a 100m sprint and beat him by 20m

Receiveing

Spiller (120) (1420 yds) (11.5 avg) (11 TDs)

Matthews (19) (268 yds) (14.7 avg) (2 TDs)<-----such a small sample size it balloons the numbers.

All-purpose yards

Spiller #2 (7588)<-------------------I was clearly wrong in ranking him #3, that was with one game left, he's actually #2.

This senior bowl is interesting to watch(complete side note)

LOL, agreed.

Bottom Line, a few numbers a similar, competition was similar at times. Both put up good rushing numbers. Spiller is by far the better catcher and athlete that gives you that Wow factor everyone would love to have as there #1 RB. Matthews seem to be a grinder with limited catching skills or opportunities. He carried the ball 17.2 times a game which seems to indicate that the coaching staff felt more comfortable in handing him the ball because that's were his strength is.I don't believe in penalizing a player by taking away some of his stats it doesn't make since to me. I believe the official NCAA numbers are what should be use when evaluating a player. I'm not saying that anyone "has to" but it's a balanced number that is used by the NCAA then it should be used when evaluating a prospect.

Getty Up,

Tex

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex, We didn't miss the question about the total's. It's irrelevant since Spiller has played a year longer. Bell cow (NFL) RB's don't do punt or kick returns. Until we see which team takes who and what their needs are, I think you guys are just going in circles.

The reason for the career number is to validate the silly argument that many question if Spiller can "carry the load," If one would look at what he's accomplished and against the competition he had during his time a Clemson. Like I said earlier if Spiller's yards, touches, TDs speaks loudly: "I can carry the load and take whoever drafts me to the Championship."The reason "Bell cow (NFL) RB's don't do punt or kick returns" is because they are none. They are usually WR/DBs, Spiller is a rare talent that just doesn;t come around often. He's such a freak of nature people question what they see and just can't believe it.We're not going in circles, but hey that's your opinion.Tex

 

[BigTex]

CJ Spiller,

10/17 Wake Forest W 38-3..................... 9 106 11.8 66 2 2 6

11/7 Florida State W 40-24.................... 22 165 7.5 45 1 3 67

11/14 @North Carolina State W 43-23..... 18 97 5.4 30 1 3 48

12/5 Georgia Tech L 39-34..................... 20 233 11.7 54 4 1 5

9/27 Maryland L 20-17.......................... 14 98 7.0 35 1 1 17

Ryan Mathews...

9/5 UC Davis W 51-0........................... 11 106 9.6 60 1 0 0

9/12 @Wisconsin L 34-31.................... 19 107 5.6 55 0 2 9

9/18 Boise State L 51-34..................... 19 234 12.3 69 3 0 0

10/10 @Hawaii W 42-17...................... 24 149 6.2 19 1 0 0

10/17 San Jose State W 41-21............. 20 233 11.7 59 1 0 0

10/24 @New Mexico State W 34-3....... 25 157 6.3 68 2 1 27

10/31 Utah State W 31-27................... 23 185 8.0 46 2 2 26

11/7 @Idaho W 31-21......................... 26 143 5.5 77 3 3 18

12/5 @Illinois W 53-52....................... 32 173 5.4 42 3 0 0

9/1 @Rutgers W 24-7........................ 26 163 6.3 29 3 1 20

9/27 @UCLA W 36-31........................ 21 166 7.9 49 1 1 25

Rushng games with 90 + yards (was doing 100, but CJ was just a tad short on 2, so included 'em) and 5.0 per carry.And while CJ has big edge on receiving, Ryan has an edge on TDs. Note- I do want a primary carrier at the NFL level.

Hmmm.

What do you mean "primary carry?" I need you to define for me what your definition of a primary carrier. Thanks!Tex

 

[BigTex]

What do you mean "primary carry?" I need you to define for me what your definition of a primary carrier. Thanks!

The guy who is getting the majority of rushes every game for his team.

Ok

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Just to add something constructive to the thread, I'm re-watching the ACC Championship tonight and just watched the first drive of the game. Spiller had 4 runs. On all of them he started up the middle. On one, he was immediately confronted with a diving defender in the backfield and made a nice ole move to avoid him before heading into the line again and getting a couple of yards. On another he was going between the left guard and tackle and there was nothing there so he escaped to the outside, outran a couple of guys around the corner who had an angle on him and gained 41 yards down the sideline. On the TD run, he went inside, avoided a scrum and cut smartly to the right to score. We have no way of knowing until we see him in the NFL, but I think his decision to bounce it outside a lot is because he knows he can get more yards that way. I think he has good enough short area vision and lateral quickness to be successful in the NFL even if he stays inside more. I'm not sure he'll be as successful as he was in college, but I don't think he'll try to break everything outside in the NFL and I think he has enough wiggle to be pretty good in the NFL.

Thanks for this....perhaps I should break Spiller down further....but that is how I have viewed him.I think what it honestly comes down to...is his attitude running. He wants to run fast. Mathews runs angry.

I can't argue that. Like I said, I do like Mathews. I think he's a pretty safe choice to be a solid NFL RB. But Spiller may be better than that. Or he may be worse.

 

[BigTex]

What do you mean "primary carry?" I need you to define for me what your definition of a primary carrier. Thanks!

The guy who is getting the majority of rushes every game for his team.

Ok

Good

A+

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Big Tex

Since you refuse to hear the agrument that Spiller has had 21 more games to play to have better than numbers than Mathews....I evened them out for you.

But first a couple of quick stats

1) CJ Spiller finished 25th in the Nation in rushing....that is his best season of his career(does that scream stud RB?....not for me)

2)Spiller's Yards Per Carry has gone down 1.7 from his freshman year to his season year....shouldn't he improve that as the years go on?

CJ Spiller career games in NCAA 52

Ryan Mathews games in NCAA 31

Ok so I broke the stats down both ways.

If both CJ Spiller and Mathews played 31 games(Mathews actual career total) in NCAA here are their numbers.

Spiller:

361 Carries

2115 Yards 5.85 YPC

19 TD

73 Rec for 846 7 TD

Mathews:

534 Carries

3,280 yards 6.14 YPC

39 TD

19 Rec 268 2 TD

If both Spiller and Mathews played 52 career games(Spillers actual totals) in the NCAA here are their totals.

Spiller:

606 carries

3,547 yards 5.85 YPC

32 TD

123 Rec 1420 11 TD

Mathews:

896 Carries

5,502 yards 6.14 YPC

65 TD

32 Rec 450 3 TD

Any way that you slice it.....Spillers numbers are not spectacular if put in a FAIR MANNER vs Mathews.

 

[BigTex]

Big TexSince you refuse to hear the agrument that Spiller has had 21 more games to play to have better than numbers than Mathews....I evened them out for you.But first a couple of quick stats1) CJ Spiller finished 25th in the Nation in rushing....that is his best season of his career(does that scream stud RB?....not for me)2)Spiller's Yards Per Carry has gone down 1.7 from his freshman year to his season year....shouldn't he improve that as the years go on?CJ Spiller career games in NCAA 52Ryan Mathews games in NCAA 31Ok so I broke the stats down both ways.If both CJ Spiller and Mathews played 31 games(Mathews actual career total) in NCAA here are their numbers.Spiller:361 Carries2115 Yards 5.85 YPC19 TD73 Rec for 846 7 TDMathews:534 Carries3,280 yards 6.14 YPC39 TD19 Rec 268 2 TDIf both Spiller and Mathews played 52 career games(Spillers actual totals) in the NCAA here are their totals.Spiller:606 carries3,547 yards 5.85 YPC32 TD123 Rec 1420 11 TDMathews:896 Carries5,502 yards 6.14 YPC65 TD32 Rec 450 3 TDAny way that you slice it.....Spillers numbers are not spectacular if put in a FAIR MANNER vs Mathews.

You can't be serious, did you type this with straight face?Will respond shortly. ETA: I'm officially comparing Spiller to a bigger, faster Westbrook.

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex

Since you refuse to hear the agrument that Spiller has had 21 more games to play to have better than numbers than Mathews....I evened them out for you.

But first a couple of quick stats

1) CJ Spiller finished 25th in the Nation in rushing....that is his best season of his career(does that scream stud RB?....not for me)

2)Spiller's Yards Per Carry has gone down 1.7 from his freshman year to his season year....shouldn't he improve that as the years go on?

CJ Spiller career games in NCAA 52

Ryan Mathews games in NCAA 31

Ok so I broke the stats down both ways.

If both CJ Spiller and Mathews played 31 games(Mathews actual career total) in NCAA here are their numbers.

Spiller:

361 Carries

2115 Yards 5.85 YPC

19 TD

73 Rec for 846 7 TD

Mathews:

534 Carries

3,280 yards 6.14 YPC

39 TD

19 Rec 268 2 TD

If both Spiller and Mathews played 52 career games(Spillers actual totals) in the NCAA here are their totals.

Spiller:

606 carries

3,547 yards 5.85 YPC

32 TD

123 Rec 1420 11 TD

Mathews:

896 Carries

5,502 yards 6.14 YPC

65 TD

32 Rec 450 3 TD

Any way that you slice it.....CJ4 numbers are not spectacular if put in a FAIR MANNER vs Mathews.

There are a few things you're missing so allow me to clear them up. #1 CJ4 is a superior receiver out of the backfield, Matthews is a one trick pony.

#2 If you're going to increase Matthews' numbers to equate them with Spiller's then should you not to the same for Spiller? Matthews carried the ball 6 more times a game than Spiller add that in and it clearly blows Matthews #s away.

#3 Spiller is much, much, faster than Matthews and Spiller has the Wow factor that Matthews can only dream of.

#4 All-purpose numbers are very important IMHO when a running back is involved. Two RBs in recent memory that were outstanding all-purpose backs are Westbrook and C. Johnson. I believe Westbrook holds the Career record and CJ3 holds a bowl record.

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

Just look at the evidence, these type of players give teams fits. They don't have to carry the ball 20+ times to produce good numbers when they're catching 4-6 receptions out of the backfield. RBs like these are lethal in the open field.

All those that pass on a passing catching running back will regret the day they do.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

What does being taller do for him?

 

[_lurker_]

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

What does being taller do for him?

makes him more skiny and injury prone?

 

[BigTex]

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

What does being taller do for him?

3' ideal height, with the potential to pack on a few more pounds. Westbrook came into the NFL weighing 200 lbs but he was only 5'8. CJ3 was 5'11 and weighed 197 (he's 200 lbs now). CJ4 is 5'11 195 pack on a few more pounds at 5'11 I'd imagine he would lose much in the terms speed.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Big Tex

Since you refuse to hear the agrument that Spiller has had 21 more games to play to have better than numbers than Mathews....I evened them out for you.

But first a couple of quick stats

1) CJ Spiller finished 25th in the Nation in rushing....that is his best season of his career(does that scream stud RB?....not for me)

2)Spiller's Yards Per Carry has gone down 1.7 from his freshman year to his season year....shouldn't he improve that as the years go on?

CJ Spiller career games in NCAA 52

Ryan Mathews games in NCAA 31

Ok so I broke the stats down both ways.

If both CJ Spiller and Mathews played 31 games(Mathews actual career total) in NCAA here are their numbers.

Spiller:

361 Carries

2115 Yards 5.85 YPC

19 TD

73 Rec for 846 7 TD

Mathews:

534 Carries

3,280 yards 6.14 YPC

39 TD

19 Rec 268 2 TD

If both Spiller and Mathews played 52 career games(Spillers actual totals) in the NCAA here are their totals.

Spiller:

606 carries

3,547 yards 5.85 YPC

32 TD

123 Rec 1420 11 TD

Mathews:

896 Carries

5,502 yards 6.14 YPC

65 TD

32 Rec 450 3 TD

Any way that you slice it.....CJ4 numbers are not spectacular if put in a FAIR MANNER vs Mathews.

There are a few things you're missing so allow me to clear them up. #1 CJ4 is a superior receiver out of the backfield, Matthews is a one trick pony.

#2 If you're going to increase Matthews' numbers to equate them with Spiller's then should you not to the same for Spiller? Matthews carried the ball 6 more times a game than Spiller add that in and it clearly blows Matthews #s away.

#3 Spiller is much, much, faster than Matthews and Spiller has the Wow factor that Matthews can only dream of.

#4 All-purpose numbers are very important IMHO when a running back is involved. Two RBs in recent memory that were outstanding all-purpose backs are Westbrook and C. Johnson. I believe Westbrook holds the Career record and CJ3 holds a bowl record.

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

Just look at the evidence, these type of players give teams fits. They don't have to carry the ball 20+ times to produce good numbers when they're catching 4-6 receptions out of the backfield. RBs like these are lethal in the open field.

All those that pass on a passing catching running back will regret the day they do.

#1- His name is CJ Spiller...when he does something in the NFL....then maybe a nickname. Secondly, how do you know Mathews is a one trick pony? Fresno had a good backup RB as well that took away numbers from Mathews. He caught some passes....but maybe wasn't utilized in that capacity(see ADP this past season....finally used to catch passes).#2- Mathews YPC was 6.14

Spiller's was 5.85

So no matter how you increase it.....Mathews would win.

#3- Having 3 runs of over 60 + yards against the best opponent of the year and the best team in your conference is definitely wow.

#4- If all purpose yards were sooo important when regarding a RB....then why aren't we talking about Brandon West #5 in all purpose yards and is a RB.

But when I made the #'s even.....your argument came down to opinions.

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex

Since you refuse to hear the agrument that Spiller has had 21 more games to play to have better than numbers than Mathews....I evened them out for you.

But first a couple of quick stats

1) CJ Spiller finished 25th in the Nation in rushing....that is his best season of his career(does that scream stud RB?....not for me)

2)Spiller's Yards Per Carry has gone down 1.7 from his freshman year to his season year....shouldn't he improve that as the years go on?

CJ Spiller career games in NCAA 52

Ryan Mathews games in NCAA 31

Ok so I broke the stats down both ways.

If both CJ Spiller and Mathews played 31 games(Mathews actual career total) in NCAA here are their numbers.

Spiller:

361 Carries

2115 Yards 5.85 YPC

19 TD

73 Rec for 846 7 TD

Mathews:

534 Carries

3,280 yards 6.14 YPC

39 TD

19 Rec 268 2 TD

If both Spiller and Mathews played 52 career games(Spillers actual totals) in the NCAA here are their totals.

Spiller:

606 carries

3,547 yards 5.85 YPC

32 TD

123 Rec 1420 11 TD

Mathews:

896 Carries

5,502 yards 6.14 YPC

65 TD

32 Rec 450 3 TD

Any way that you slice it.....CJ4 numbers are not spectacular if put in a FAIR MANNER vs Mathews.

There are a few things you're missing so allow me to clear them up. #1 CJ4 is a superior receiver out of the backfield, Matthews is a one trick pony.

#2 If you're going to increase Matthews' numbers to equate them with Spiller's then should you not to the same for Spiller? Matthews carried the ball 6 more times a game than Spiller add that in and it clearly blows Matthews #s away.

#3 Spiller is much, much, faster than Matthews and Spiller has the Wow factor that Matthews can only dream of.

#4 All-purpose numbers are very important IMHO when a running back is involved. Two RBs in recent memory that were outstanding all-purpose backs are Westbrook and C. Johnson. I believe Westbrook holds the Career record and CJ3 holds a bowl record.

Imagine a taller, faster, healthier Westbrook on your team: CJ4

Just look at the evidence, these type of players give teams fits. They don't have to carry the ball 20+ times to produce good numbers when they're catching 4-6 receptions out of the backfield. RBs like these are lethal in the open field.

All those that pass on a passing catching running back will regret the day they do.

#1- His name is CJ Spiller...when he does something in the NFL....then maybe a nickname. Secondly, how do you know Mathews is a one trick pony? Fresno had a good backup RB as well that took away numbers from Mathews. He caught some passes....but maybe wasn't utilized in that capacity(see ADP this past season....finally used to catch passes).#2- Mathews YPC was 6.14

Spiller's was 5.85

So no matter how you increase it.....Mathews would win.

#3- Having 3 runs of over 60 + yards against the best opponent of the year and the best team in your conference is definitely wow.

#4- If all purpose yards were sooo important when regarding a RB....then why aren't we talking about Brandon West #5 in all purpose yards and is a RB.

But when I made the #'s even.....your argument came down to opinions.

#1 Fine, when he wins ROY I'll be the first to post it. Maybe one trick pony was a tad harsh but looking at what he accomplished in college, catching is not one of his tools.#2 Once again you're forgetting that Spiller is a great catcher out of the backfield. I would understand if he was strictly a runner like Matthews but he's a viable threat in the passing game as well. On 3rd and long Spiller is an option out of the backfield while Matthews is on the bench or blocking.

#3 Who won that game and why?

#4 He doesn't have the same skillset as Spiller.

EXACTLY, I told you from the beginning I don't like hypotheticals because they are skewed and can't be proven right or wrong.

 

[paydrt]

Certainly looks like a fine prospect and not to nit-pick however he has that upright running style which doesnt always translate well in the pro game. If he cant get his pad level lower it could lead to difficulty in the short yardage game. This type of style also leads to injury or problems hanging onto the ball.

 

[BigTex]

Certainly looks like a fine prospect and not to nit-pick however he has that upright running style which doesnt always translate well in the pro game. If he cant get his pad level lower it could lead to difficulty in the short yardage game. This type of style also leads to injury or problems hanging onto the ball.

Which player?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

#1 Fine, when he wins ROY I'll be the first to post it. Maybe one trick pony was a tad harsh but looking at what he accomplished in college, catching is not one of his tools.

Agreed that in college catching wasn't one of his tools that was utilized.

#2 Once again you're forgetting that Spiller is a great catcher out of the backfield. I would understand if he was strictly a runner like Matthews but he's a viable threat in the passing game as well. On 3rd and long Spiller is an option out of the backfield while Matthews is on the bench or blocking.

What am I forgetting? You stated that by adding 6 carries a game(why would we add carries, when you had issues negating Spillers extra 21 games played) that Spillers #'s would smash Mathews...when that simply isn't the case.

#3 Who won that game and why?

My guess would be they lost the game b/c of every other player on the field not named Ryan Mathews....he single handedly kept them in the game.

Statline 19 carries 234 yards 3 td's. What else would you expect from him? Defense allowed 480 yards.....QB threw 2 INT's....offense was 4/17 on 3rd down. But they lost b/c of mathews? Come on.

#4 He doesn't have the same skillset as Spiller.

No Mathews doesn't return Kicks and punts....but does that make him a worse RUNNING BACK in the NFL than Spiller? Not at all.

Running the football- Mathews

Catching the football- Spiller

Blocking- ????

Learning-????

Size-Mathews

Speed-Spiller

Returning kicks/punts/throwing the football-Spiller

Thats how I look at them. Mathews is the better running and can catch. Spiller is the better Speed guy that can do kicks and whatnot...but isn't as good of a runner. Mathews is still fast(i'm guessing a 4.4 guy)...while Spiller(Is a 4.3 guy)

 

[BigTex]

#1 Fine, when he wins ROY I'll be the first to post it. Maybe one trick pony was a tad harsh but looking at what he accomplished in college, catching is not one of his tools.

Agreed that in college catching wasn't one of his tools that was utilized.

#2 Once again you're forgetting that Spiller is a great catcher out of the backfield. I would understand if he was strictly a runner like Matthews but he's a viable threat in the passing game as well. On 3rd and long Spiller is an option out of the backfield while Matthews is on the bench or blocking.

What am I forgetting? You stated that by adding 6 carries a game(why would we add carries, when you had issues negating Spillers extra 21 games played) that Spillers #'s would smash Mathews...when that simply isn't the case.

#3 Who won that game and why?

My guess would be they lost the game b/c of every other player on the field not named Ryan Mathews....he single handedly kept them in the game.

Statline 19 carries 234 yards 3 td's. What else would you expect from him? Defense allowed 480 yards.....QB threw 2 INT's....offense was 4/17 on 3rd down. But they lost b/c of mathews? Come on.

#4 He doesn't have the same skillset as Spiller.

No Mathews doesn't return Kicks and punts....but does that make him a worse RUNNING BACK in the NFL than Spiller? Not at all.

Running the football- Mathews

Catching the football- Spiller

Blocking- ????

Learning-????

Size-Mathews

Speed-Spiller

Returning kicks/punts/throwing the football-Spiller

Thats how I look at them. Mathews is the better running and can catch. Spiller is the better Speed guy that can do kicks and whatnot...but isn't as good of a runner. Mathews is still fast(i'm guessing a 4.4 guy)...while Spiller(Is a 4.3 guy)

#1 Agreed#2 My point was that if you add the carries then you must also add the yds.

#3 LOL

#4 Or Catch Or Pass ( You know like LT2), no but in certain situations Spiller is more likely to stay in the game (well know pass catcher) when it's 3rd and long whereas Matthews is likely on the bench or blocking.

Blocking: Spiller was in an offense which required that he block

Learning: Spiller seems like a smart kid, I know he had a 3.0+ GPA but I don't remember the exact number.

Size: Debatable (CJ3 is doing fine at 5'11 200 lbs)

I'm fairly certain Matthews run a 4.5+ and to say Matthews is a better runner is INSANE without proof. What exactly do you mean? For his speed Spiller is actually a patient runner but when I look at Matthews I see an impatient runner.

 

[BeTheMatch]

The biggest problem I have with Mathews is that he's gotten injured every year.

 

[BigTex]

The biggest problem I have with Mathews is that he's gotten injured every year.

I knew he was injured this year was there another time?Wow, In 08' he suffered

an injury against UCLA ... played sparingly in the next three games that followed and missed five full games, including the last four of the regular season

In 09' in was hurt in the Nevada game, hmmmmm. Injury history too?Best was inured all 3yrs he played.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

#1 Fine, when he wins ROY I'll be the first to post it. Maybe one trick pony was a tad harsh but looking at what he accomplished in college, catching is not one of his tools.

Agreed that in college catching wasn't one of his tools that was utilized.

#2 Once again you're forgetting that Spiller is a great catcher out of the backfield. I would understand if he was strictly a runner like Matthews but he's a viable threat in the passing game as well. On 3rd and long Spiller is an option out of the backfield while Matthews is on the bench or blocking.

What am I forgetting? You stated that by adding 6 carries a game(why would we add carries, when you had issues negating Spillers extra 21 games played) that Spillers #'s would smash Mathews...when that simply isn't the case.

#3 Who won that game and why?

My guess would be they lost the game b/c of every other player on the field not named Ryan Mathews....he single handedly kept them in the game.

Statline 19 carries 234 yards 3 td's. What else would you expect from him? Defense allowed 480 yards.....QB threw 2 INT's....offense was 4/17 on 3rd down. But they lost b/c of mathews? Come on.

#4 He doesn't have the same skillset as Spiller.

No Mathews doesn't return Kicks and punts....but does that make him a worse RUNNING BACK in the NFL than Spiller? Not at all.

Running the football- Mathews

Catching the football- Spiller

Blocking- ????

Learning-????

Size-Mathews

Speed-Spiller

Returning kicks/punts/throwing the football-Spiller

Thats how I look at them. Mathews is the better running and can catch. Spiller is the better Speed guy that can do kicks and whatnot...but isn't as good of a runner. Mathews is still fast(i'm guessing a 4.4 guy)...while Spiller(Is a 4.3 guy)

#1 Agreed#2 My point was that if you add the carries then you must also add the yds.

#3 LOL

#4 Or Catch Or Pass ( You know like LT2), no but in certain situations Spiller is more likely to stay in the game (well know pass catcher) when it's 3rd and long whereas Matthews is likely on the bench or blocking.

Blocking: Spiller was in an offense which required that he block

Learning: Spiller seems like a smart kid, I know he had a 3.0+ GPA but I don't remember the exact number.

Size: Debatable (CJ3 is doing fine at 5'11 200 lbs)

I'm fairly certain Matthews run a 4.5+ and to say Matthews is a better runner is INSANE without proof. What exactly do you mean? For his speed Spiller is actually a patient runner but when I look at Matthews I see an impatient runner.

#2- If I add the carries and yards.....5.85 per carry for Spiller, 6.14 per carry for Mathews....how would Spiller surpass him?#3- Running for over 10 yards a carry, 3 tds and 234 yards....but its his fault? You haven't answered this.

Mathews run a 4.5+ have you seen him play.....he is fast....not Chris Johnson, Desean Jackson, J. Knox fast....but he is 4.4 fast.

Blocking- You don't know this....all offenses require RB's to block.

Learning- Don't know GPA's....but football IQ is way different. I personally know this from my coaching background.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The biggest problem I have with Mathews is that he's gotten injured every year.

I knew he was injured this year was there another time?

Sophomore year hurt a knee ligament....nothing major.Junior year missed one game with a concussion.

 

[RudiStein]

People have been talking about Mathews since mid-September (page 5) in this thread

Ahem

Just so I can refer to this in a couple of years when the kid is a superstar...

True freshman RB Ryan Mathews of Fresno State scored 2 TDs today to bring his season total 9.

 

[BeTheMatch]

The biggest problem I have with Mathews is that he's gotten injured every year.

I knew he was injured this year was there another time?

Sophomore year hurt a knee ligament....nothing major.

Junior year missed one game with a concussion.

He missed quite a bit of time for it being nothing major

 

[ConstruxBoy]

To be fair, one of my concerns with Spiller is his toe problem this year. It should go away with rest, but with all the training, workouts, rookie minicamps, when will he be resting it?

 

[BigTex]

The biggest problem I have with Mathews is that he's gotten injured every year.

I knew he was injured this year was there another time?

Sophomore year hurt a knee ligament....nothing major.

an injury against UCLA ... played sparingly in the next three games that followed and missed five full games, including the last four of the regular season

Junior year missed one game with a concussion.

He had a problem punching it in from the 1 yard line during the bowl game. I believe he had 3 chances and couldn't get it done.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Your getting off topic Big Tex.

How does adding carries to Spiller at 5.85 YPC....and Mathews 6.14 YPC.....how would he have better numbers?

Did you look at the highlight tape to see his 4.5+ forty(please)?

Running for over 10 yards a carry, 3 tds and 234 yards....but its his fault they lost to Boise State? You haven't answered this.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Two more new things

1) Didn't Mathews lead the NCAA with runs over 50 yards with 7? If that isn't "Wow" or "explosive" then maybe we need a new definition.

2) I'm ready to compare Mathews to another RB......Rashard Mendenhall.

Build wise Mendy is 5'10 225, Mathews is 5'11 220.

They both run in the 4.4's and are explosive.....however they both are combo backs in that they have power as well.

Another thing is that they both use their blockers well(Mendy probably does this better at this time).

 

[BigTex]

Two more new things

1) Didn't Mathews lead the NCAA with runs over 50 yards with 7? If that isn't "Wow" or "explosive" then maybe we need a new definition.

Spiller had 19 touchdowns of 50 yards including seven of at least 80 yards, I'm fairly certain that's "EXPLOSIVE" this is THE definition.

2) I'm ready to compare Mathews to another RB......Rashard Mendenhall.

I'm ready to compare Spiller to Chris Johnson

Build wise Mendy is 5'10 225, Mathews is 5'11 220.

Build wise CJ3 is 5'11 200, CJ4 sorry, Spiller is 5'11 195.

They both run in the 4.4's and are explosive.....however they both are combo backs in that they have power as well.

100m Spiller runs 10.2 and CJ3 runs 10.3 and are dangerous......however they both share all-purpose records and can score anytime the touch the rock.

Another thing is that they both use their blockers well(Mendy probably does this better at this time).

Another thing is that they both have that Wow factor that no other have at this time;-)

 

[BigTex]

Your getting off topic Big Tex.

No sir, just expanding my solid case that you can't refute.

How does adding carries to Spiller at 5.85 YPC....and Mathews 6.14 YPC.....how would he have better numbers?

It would give him more yards but like I said from the beginning and you finally agreed with me later hypotheticals are just that.

Did you look at the highlight tape to see his 4.5+ forty(please)?

When you're constantly playing Sister Mary Ann Joe's Middle School of the Blind and Cripple you're going to look faster.

Running for over 10 yards a carry, 3 tds and 234 yards....but its his fault they lost to Boise State? You haven't answered this.

You've repeated this how many times now? Why? Because it's all you have to lean on. It might not have been garbage time but I could see how that team let up after leading in the game and they were caught sleeping. Yes, I'm serious.

 

[BigTex]

By the way he runs a 4.79 not 4.4 like you're misleading everyone to believe: http://fresnostate.rivals.com/cpevent.asp?Key=14424

Well here they have him at 4.46: http://walterfootball.com/draft2011RB.php

I saw another site somewhere had him at 4.6.

I'd guess a 4.5 plus but we'll find out in about 3 weeks when the combine rolls around.

Still comparing him to Mendy?

 

[awesomeness]

By the way he runs a 4.79 not 4.4 like you're misleading everyone to believe: http://fresnostate.rivals.com/cpevent.asp?Key=14424

Well here they have him at 4.46: http://walterfootball.com/draft2011RB.php

I saw another site somewhere had him at 4.6.

I'd guess a 4.5 plus but we'll find out in about 3 weeks when the combine rolls around.

Still comparing him to Mendy?

Simply from watching him play live, i'd be absolutely astounded if he runs anything worse than a 4.60. And i fully expect him to run somewhere between 4.42-4.52.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Two more new things

1) Didn't Mathews lead the NCAA with runs over 50 yards with 7? If that isn't "Wow" or "explosive" then maybe we need a new definition.

Spiller had 19 touchdowns of 50 yards including seven of at least 80 yards, I'm fairly certain that's "EXPLOSIVE" this is THE definition.

2) I'm ready to compare Mathews to another RB......Rashard Mendenhall.

I'm ready to compare Spiller to Chris Johnson

Build wise Mendy is 5'10 225, Mathews is 5'11 220.

Build wise CJ3 is 5'11 200, CJ4 sorry, Spiller is 5'11 195.

They both run in the 4.4's and are explosive.....however they both are combo backs in that they have power as well.

100m Spiller runs 10.2 and CJ3 runs 10.3 and are dangerous......however they both share all-purpose records and can score anytime the touch the rock.

Another thing is that they both use their blockers well(Mendy probably does this better at this time).

Another thing is that they both have that Wow factor that no other have at this time;-)

1) Again you take a fact and turn it around in a different way to make Spiller look good...its actually pretty funny.RUNS over 50 + yards this past year.....Spiller=2 Mathews=8(I miss counted)

-Even if you add in Spiller's 4 catches for over 50 yards:

Spiller=6

Mathews=8

2) I'm glad you want to compare him to Chris Johnson......bet you anything he doesn't produce a 2000 yard season....or even close to it.....until then his name is CJ Spiller

I'm glad they r both fast in track shoes running in a straight line with no defenders around them.....nice comparison. Why not draft Bolt #1 in the Draft....i'm sure he has the best 100m time...see the relevance?

They both have this 'wow' factor that no other RB has.....your redundent with this. Do you want a wow factor or a RB that consistantly produces? I would rather have a guy that produces, over a guy that makes a great play once every 3 games. You are probably the same guy that loves Home Runs over on-base percentage.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Your getting off topic Big Tex.

No sir, just expanding my solid case that you can't refute.

How does adding carries to Spiller at 5.85 YPC....and Mathews 6.14 YPC.....how would he have better numbers?

It would give him more yards but like I said from the beginning and you finally agreed with me later hypotheticals are just that.

Did you look at the highlight tape to see his 4.5+ forty(please)?

When you're constantly playing Sister Mary Ann Joe's Middle School of the Blind and Cripple you're going to look faster.

Running for over 10 yards a carry, 3 tds and 234 yards....but its his fault they lost to Boise State? You haven't answered this.

You've repeated this how many times now? Why? Because it's all you have to lean on. It might not have been garbage time but I could see how that team let up after leading in the game and they were caught sleeping. Yes, I'm serious.

What haven't I refuted up until this point?-You stated that Spiller has better stats than Mathews in every category....when in reality he only beats him in receiving categories or return categories...checking rushing yards, rushing average, rushing TD's....Mathews is better.

-You stated that Mathews piled up all his stats when 2nd or 3rd stringers were in the games of blow-outs and I proved that wrong.

-You stated that the ACC is better than the WAC...good job. I then compiled a list of rush defensive YPC(which is more accurate) and to make you feel better rush defensive rankings per opponent they both faced...to show that it wasn't THAT far off.

-You wrote about all of these #'s that Spiller is better at than Mathews....when in reality Spiller played in 21 MORE GAMES...and you have yet to comment on this. So when I calculated out per game averages to make things on an equal playing level(both at 52 games and both at 31 games) it shows how much more productive Mathews is than Spiller.

-You alluded that Boise State let up and thats why Mathews had all of those long runs....completely weak arguement....now your going on 'gut feelings'...lol

"When you're constantly playing Sister Mary Ann Joe's Middle School of the Blind and Cripple you're going to look faster."

So when Mathews had 4 runs of over 50 yards vs Boise State(28th ranked rush D) and Wisconsin(5th ranked rush D)....they must be Blind and Crippled...OKAY.