Saints Fans (1 Viewer)

[Snot Bubbler]

What will the Saints do with the #2 pick in the 2006 NFL draft? Here are the 3 basic scenerios...1) Bush is drafted #1 - If I'm the Saints GM, I take Leinart. He's the best QB in the draft. He's played 3 years under Pete Carroll, never finished worst than 2nd in the nation in 3 years as a starter, and going into the title game this year he was the consensus No. 2 NFL prospect. What changed in that one game? V. Young dazzled while Leinart was only good. That's just one game though. I know they aren't clones of the following NFL QBs but I'd rather have a Carson Palmer type QB than a Steve McNair/Mike Vick QB. 2) Young is drafted #1 - This is the hardest decision to make. I think Bush is the best player, but the Saints need a QB more than they need a RB (assuming Deuce is recovered by early next season.) I really think you draft Bush here. You would have thunder and lightening in your backfield, and with a new headcoach, Brooks may get his confidence back. Fantasy coaches hate RBBC, but I think most NFL coaches wouldn't mind having both Deuce and Reggie in the backfield. Getting both of them enough touches each game might be a problem, but it would be a good problem to have. 3) Leinart is drafted #1 - I really don't think this would happen. The Texans certainly aren't interested in him, but let's just say that it happens...I take Bush at #2 unless Deuce is looking like he's going to recover 100% and the new head coach has no faith in Brooks. I really don't like Young's low release. And while he was usually the fastest player by a good margin in college that gap will close in the NFL.There are a lot of variables at play here. Who will be drafted #1 - Bush, Leinart, or Young?Who will New Orleans' new head coach be? (What style of offense does he run?)Does the new head coach have confidence in Aaron Brooks?How far along in rehab is Deuce McAllister?What are other teams willing to trade for a #2 pick this year?What say you FBGs?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick. Colin

 

[Winston Smith]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington.  Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4.  While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick. 

Colin

Saints have zero need for an end. Although Pennington is sort of an intriguing option.

 

[Bloom]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

how can the jets trade abraham when he's not under contract?

 

[jcjets]

Deal!! The problem is the cap hit the Jets will take by trading Pennington. Once you trade a player his signing bonus gets escalated to that years cap. I believe Chad had 17 mil bonus and a 7 year deal 2 years ago. So thats 2.4mil per year times 5 years left for a 12 million cap hit.Not likely

 

[David Yudkin]

The other issue is to whether whomever they draft (if they keep the pick), he will consent to PLAY for New Orleans. As I remember, there have been whispers that the Big 3 could refuse to play there given the lay of the land.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

how can the jets trade abraham when he's not under contract?

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

 

[diesel7982]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

:madden:

 

[Snot Bubbler]

Non-Football Guy / Saints Fan SFox had this to say...

I think with the fact that either bush and leinart or young and leinart will be available at #2, the only difficulty with finding a taker will be finding a team whose picks set up where you won’t find yourself settling for a player because the person you really want is off the board.

Leinart won’t go number 1. So a lot, like you said, depends on who goes first and Brooks/Deuce. Young’s delivery worries me, too. His upside is significantly higher than Leinart, but he;s also much more likely to be a bust than Leinart is. If you’re adamant about getting a QB in the first round, I either trade the pick where I can get Cutler and another pick, or take leinart. (don’t know if you saw vandy this year, but cutler’s good. I was very impressed.) if bush falls to number two, I think the decision is a lot harder. I think the only way you pass on Bush is if you decide you absolutely need a qb and there’s no other way to get one that can start for you next year successfully outside of using the first pick for leinart. Plus, I think you have to be very confident duece has at least three or 4 more 1,000+ seasons left. If there’s any doubt there, you have to take bush and hope brooks works out or overpay in free agency from somebody like schaub or the titans back-up. Volek.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

:madden:

This is similar to a trade I would advocate big time for Houston. Send the #1 to NY for the #4, Abraham (re-signed), a 3rd rounder, and a 1st or 2nd next year.You get a solid veteran DE, end up with Ferguson, and add 2 other reasonably high draft choices.

Colin

 

[Colin Dowling]

Non-Football Guy / Saints Fan SFox had this to say...

I think with the fact that either bush and leinart or young and leinart will be available at #2, the only difficulty with finding a taker will be finding a team whose picks set up where you won’t find yourself settling for a player because the person you really want is off the board.

Leinart won’t go number 1. So a lot, like you said, depends on who goes first and Brooks/Deuce. Young’s delivery worries me, too. His upside is significantly higher than Leinart, but he;s also much more likely to be a bust than Leinart is. If you’re adamant about getting a QB in the first round, I either trade the pick where I can get Cutler and another pick, or take leinart. (don’t know if you saw vandy this year, but cutler’s good. I was very impressed.) if bush falls to number two, I think the decision is a lot harder. I think the only way you pass on Bush is if you decide you absolutely need a qb and there’s no other way to get one that can start for you next year successfully outside of using the first pick for leinart. Plus, I think you have to be very confident duece has at least three or 4 more 1,000+ seasons left. If there’s any doubt there, you have to take bush and hope brooks works out or overpay in free agency from somebody like schaub or the titans back-up. Volek.

INteresting, but I don't think there is any way the Saints send Schaub to a division rival.

 

[Quez]

I hope they take Leinart, then Leinart pulls an Eli/Elway. Then Benson says "too F***ing bad, I wanted to move my team to San Antonio and I couldn't, I am tired of people trying to dictate what I can do with my own team" and picks him anyways. Leinart sits out until 2007 when he re-enters the draft and is selected with the #1 overall pick in the 2nd round.Should have gone #1 in 05'

 

[David Yudkin]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

 

[Statorama]

My gut tells me the Saints are zeroing in on Leinart as their franchise QB for the next decade. If he's not available, it'll be because someone traded up to get him (if the Texans pass on both Bush AND Young I'd be very surprised). If that happened, the Saints would then be in a prime position to either trade the pick or draft Bush and trade Bush.I have zero confidence that the Saints "braintrust" will get the most value for the pick if they trade it though. Denver's two late #1's and Champ?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

 

[David Yudkin]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

 

[Colin Dowling]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

 

[diesel7982]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington.  Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4.  While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick. 

Colin

:madden:

This is similar to a trade I would advocate big time for Houston. Send the #1 to NY for the #4, Abraham (re-signed), a 3rd rounder, and a 1st or 2nd next year.You get a solid veteran DE, end up with Ferguson, and add 2 other reasonably high draft choices.

Colin

Im fine with that deal for Houston. Its plausible, and would be very interesting for the Texans to consider. However, for the Saints, that deal makes no sense whatsoever, and the inclusion of Pennington is just fantasy-land.

 

[WhoDat]

I hope they take Leinart, then Leinart pulls an Eli/Elway.

I have a feeling whatever player the Saints pick at #2 is going to make signing them extremely hard for the franchise...extremely hard.

 

[diesel7982]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

A player who is not under contract, or who has not been tagged(RFA, Fran, etc) cannot be traded.Abraham would have to be franchised again.

 

[David Yudkin]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

 

[diesel7982]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

Or we could look it up for ourselves. His nflpa.org player page shows hes going to be a FA.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

Or we could look it up for ourselves. His nflpa.org player page shows hes going to be a FA.

If he's a UFA, I would expect the Raiders to be all over him. They should have cap space and a 2nd capable DE is an area of need. He, Burgess, and Ngata (perhaps) up front would be a solid group pretty quickly IMO.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

The more I think about it if the Texans take Young at #1 I think you take Bush over Leinart regardless. Brooks was awful this year, but he was good the past few years before that. He was never great, but he was good. He just plateaued and everyone expected him to get better each year. I think last year was an anomoly because Deuce was lost early in the season, Joe Horn stayed hurt the whole year, and the defense usually got us in a tight spot. However if Bush is taken #1, do you take Young (with the logic that he will attract more fans and sell more merchandise) I have a hunch that Benson could possibly base his decision/influenceontheGM on how much money he could make. He probably still has fantasies of moving to Texas...the son of a #####.

 

[David Yudkin]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

Or we could look it up for ourselves. His nflpa.org player page shows hes going to be a FA.

I already looked up his salary and contract info at that same exact site BEFORE I posted. The question was whether he was franchised THIS YEAR or not, not whether he would be a free agent.

 

[David Yudkin]

If he's a UFA, I would expect the Raiders to be all over him. They should have cap space and a 2nd capable DE is an area of need. He, Burgess, and Ngata (perhaps) up front would be a solid group pretty quickly IMO.

The only way he would be a free agent is if the Jets don't tag him.

 

[WhoDat]

He probably still has fantasies of moving to Texas...the son of a #####.

It is not going to happen. Tagliabue was in town immediately after the season. He refused to meet with (insert name of any San Antonio city council member; the mayor; any affluent and respected businessman and several local yocals despite multiple invites from such folks.)That sent the message loud and clear to the people here in town, San Antonio. The team is not coming here. Refusing to meet with a city's mayor and or members of city council is about as large as a tactful FU you might ever see in a business setting. You need to worry about Hollywood not south Texas.

 

[diesel7982]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

Or we could look it up for ourselves. His nflpa.org player page shows hes going to be a FA.

I already looked up his salary and contract info at that same exact site BEFORE I posted. The question was whether he was franchised THIS YEAR or not, not whether he would be a free agent.

Not sure what you are asking. If its, is Abraham being franchised in 2006, the answer is we'll know by March.

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

 

[David Yudkin]

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

This is what I was asking. I was pretty sure he had been but was not 100% sure.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

This is what I was asking. I was pretty sure he had been but was not 100% sure.

I'm glad ya'll got that all sorted out. Remember Charles Grant, Will Smith and Darren Howard? The Saints don't need another DE. The Saints need everything except DEs.

 

[AmpLee]

Isn't Aaron Brooks pretty much done as Saints QB??? Obviously a new coach will be coming in, but I don't think Aaron Brooks figures into the Saints equation next year.....I think they go Leinert(Saints looking to move to LA maybe) or in most likelyhood trade down....

 

[psychobillies]

Personally I think Hawk is the 2nd most "can't miss" prospect in the draft. The Saints would do well to trade back or maybe even just pick him.As far as players boycotting the city, I don't see it happening for two reasons. 1) major PR snafu that would make Eli's stunt look like nothing considering the rebuilding/catastrophe/blah blah blah... and 2) It's really not that bad in the city. Sure certain areas (mostly residential) are still destroyed, but downtown is up and running. Plenty of bars restaraunts and malls are open and doing very well. There are lots of people down here.On top of that If someone came down and had some rip roaring success they would be the feelgood hero of the year.Now, if they boycott b/c they won't play for a guy like Benson, then I would understand. I just don't see it happening.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

Isn't Aaron Brooks pretty much done as Saints QB??? Obviously a new coach will be coming in, but I don't think Aaron Brooks figures into the Saints equation next year.....

I think they go Leinert(Saints looking to move to LA maybe) or in most likelyhood trade down....

Brooks was the starting QB for 4 full seasons and most of 2 others. Yes, he was bad this year, but he didn't have Deuce and Joe Horn was hurt all year. Yes, I would rather have someone else leading the team, but I don't think he's done. If Bush is available I think you take him and find a way to keep Deuce, Bush, Stallworth, Brooks, and Joe Horn all on the field at the same time.

 

[Rounders]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

 

[diesel7982]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I know its January, but ill give 3:1 it happens this way.

Only way I can see it going differently is if Leinart pulls and Eli and forces the Saints to trade with the Jets, who will surely be looking to trade up for Leinart.

 

[Rounders]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I know its January, but ill give 3:1 it happens this way.

Only way I can see it going differently is if Leinart pulls and Eli and forces the Saints to trade with the Jets, who will surely be looking to trade up for Leinart.

Agreed, that could happen.BUt if it doesn't who does the Jets take at #4?

 

[facook]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I agree that's the logical scenario as of now. If the Saints to take Leinart and if Mike Martz gets the HC gig (he's being interviewed, per ESPN), Leinart is going to get killed. Martz just does not do enough to keep his QBs healthy (Warner, Bulger). It could be a very tough first few years in the league for Matt.

 

[diesel7982]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I know its January, but ill give 3:1 it happens this way.

Only way I can see it going differently is if Leinart pulls and Eli and forces the Saints to trade with the Jets, who will surely be looking to trade up for Leinart.

Agreed, that could happen.BUt if it doesn't who does the Jets take at #4?

Absolutely no telling. Its way to early to speculate that Dbrick is the #1 tackle, but if he retains that ranking, I think the Jets have to go that way.

 

[Mister CIA]

Saints draft Leinart and soon relocate to L.A.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I know its January, but ill give 3:1 it happens this way.

Only way I can see it going differently is if Leinart pulls and Eli and forces the Saints to trade with the Jets, who will surely be looking to trade up for Leinart.

Agreed, that could happen.BUt if it doesn't who does the Jets take at #4?

Absolutely no telling. Its way to early to speculate that Dbrick is the #1 tackle, but if he retains that ranking, I think the Jets have to go that way.

Winston Justice will have to test EXTREMELY well and Brick will have to show up hungover for it to come out any other way. I think picks 4 and 5 will be Ferguson and M. Williams. Picks 6-10 will be some concotion of Hawk, D.Williams, Kiwanuka, Ngata (although I prefer Wright), J. Williams, and/or Justice. The Jets could always let Abraham walk and take Mario Williams, although I don't know how much sense that makes. Perhaps they'll tag Abraham, trade him for a 3rd rounder (or so) and then take Williams.

Colin

 

[Pat Patriot]

Bush goes to Houston, Leinart to the Saints, and Young to the Titans.

Repeat it as many times as you need to. Memorize it.

I know its January, but ill give 3:1 it happens this way.

Only way I can see it going differently is if Leinart pulls and Eli and forces the Saints to trade with the Jets, who will surely be looking to trade up for Leinart.

I'll take $50 at 3:1 that it does NOT happen like that.

 

[David Yudkin]

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

This is what I was asking. I was pretty sure he had been but was not 100% sure.

I'm glad ya'll got that all sorted out. Remember Charles Grant, Will Smith and Darren Howard? The Saints don't need another DE. The Saints need everything except DEs.

Good thing the Saints don't need DEs . . . cause we were talking about Houston.

 

[Pnishthm]

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

This is what I was asking. I was pretty sure he had been but was not 100% sure.

I'm glad ya'll got that all sorted out. Remember Charles Grant, Will Smith and Darren Howard? The Saints don't need another DE. The Saints need everything except DEs.

Quote <<Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick. Colin >>

Good thing the Saints don't need DEs . . . cause we were talking about Houston.

You may wanna recheck that.

 

[David Yudkin]

If its, was Abraham franchised in the 2005 offseason, the answer is yes.

This is what I was asking. I was pretty sure he had been but was not 100% sure.

I'm glad ya'll got that all sorted out. Remember Charles Grant, Will Smith and Darren Howard? The Saints don't need another DE. The Saints need everything except DEs.

Quote <<Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick. Colin >>

Good thing the Saints don't need DEs . . . cause we were talking about Houston.

You may wanna recheck that.

Better stated, I thought we were talking Houston, but there were about 18 posts in the middle . . .

 

[NYRAGE]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

:madden:

This is similar to a trade I would advocate big time for Houston. Send the #1 to NY for the #4, Abraham (re-signed), a 3rd rounder, and a 1st or 2nd next year.You get a solid veteran DE, end up with Ferguson, and add 2 other reasonably high draft choices.

Colin

Yeah, the Jets have so many needs, but are going to give up their first rounder, Abraham, a 3rd rounder and a first or second rounder next year. That trade for Houston would even be a no-brainer for Matt Millen.

 

[Zigg]

Regardless of who is available, rade the #2 to the Jets for the #4, Abraham, a 3rd rounder, and Pennington. Draft Hawk or Ferguson at #4. While you've passed on a top-QB, you've acquired a veteran game-manager, an effective 2-way DE, a strong LB or OT, and an additional pick.

Colin

This is one of my two scenarios, sort of. IMO, option one for the Saints is to stand pat and take Leinart. People are drooling over the flash of Bush/Young, but I think Leinart will be the best pro. The Saints have alot of weapons, and have interviewed Martz. Leinart/Deuce/Stallworth/Horn/Henderson/Hilton and a couple nice pieces on the O-line looks very good.Option two for me is to trade down to the Jets. I figure at the minimum the Saints would get #4, a 2nd, and a 2nd next year. However, given the players available at #2 this year, the Saints might be able to squeeze a 1st rounder out of the Jets. At #4, take either D'Brick or Hawk. Considering LBs rarely go in the top 5, they might even be able to trade again and still get Hawk.

Either of these would make me happy.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

This is one of my two scenarios, sort of. IMO, option one for the Saints is to stand pat and take Leinart. People are drooling over the flash of Bush/Young, but I think Leinart will be the best pro. The Saints have alot of weapons, and have interviewed Martz. Leinart/Deuce/Stallworth/Horn/Henderson/Hilton and a couple nice pieces on the O-line looks very good.

Option two for me is to trade down to the Jets. I figure at the minimum the Saints would get #4, a 2nd, and a 2nd next year. However, given the players available at #2 this year, the Saints might be able to squeeze a 1st rounder out of the Jets. At #4, take either D'Brick or Hawk. Considering LBs rarely go in the top 5, they might even be able to trade again and still get Hawk.

Either of these would make me happy.

Has any heard any reports that the Jets are considering trading up and/or that the Saints are considering trading down or is this all pure speculation? Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the speculating, I was just wondering if there were any front office rumors floating around. I think most Saints fans would be ticked off if the Saints traded down (thereby giving away Leinart or Bush) and then taking a linebacker and a couple of 2nd rounders. These guys won the Heisman trophy was a reason. I could be wrong but I don't think A.J. and D'Brickshaw a lot of Heisman votes. And don't sell me that Eric Crouch-Heisman winners don't equal NFL success.

Jets fans are drooling over Bush/Leinart for the same reason that Loomis and Benson should be drooling over them.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Part of this would be contingent on getting Abraham signed long term. Happens in basketball and baseball all the time.

Wouldn't this create cap hell for the Jets, as any signing bonus would be accelerated to the year a player was traded, so Abraham would cost the Jets an arm and a leg if they signed him and then traded him.Couldn't the Jets franchise him and THEN trade him . . . as there would be no cap hit at all then, if my limited knowledge of capology is correct.

I mean the Texans would hold negotiations with Abraham before the trade and then, when the trade was done, he would sign a new contract.

Can you trade a player that is not under contract? Abraham is unsigned for next year. Technically, if the Jets don't sign him he would be a free agent, so how could you trade a free agent? Wouldn't the Texans have to officially "offer" a contract, have the Jets match it, and THEN trade him?I ponder this because if the Jets COULD trade him w/o signing him, they are basically able to trade someone without any cap ramifications.

Capology experts please break this down . . .

I was under the impression he was under contract, a contract he didn't like. I guess they could Fran Tag him and then trade him, sort of like how Edge and SA were dangled last year.

We'd have to ask Chase, but I thought he was franchised for this year. His 05 salary was $6.66 million and he's got nothing beyond this year on the books.

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but two things:1) Abraham was franchised this year. I think there might have been an oral promise (for whatever that's worth) not to franchise him again (remember he held out for awhile).

2) If you trade a player under a franchise tag, I think you lose the right to franchise any player for the remainder of the original player's new contract.

Basically, I don't think you'll ever see anyone trade a player under a franchise tag. They'll never trade him while he has the tag, and a sign-and-trade doesn't work like the NBA because as Yudkin pointed out, the accelerated bonus.

I suppose in theory the Jets could sign Abraham to the vets minimum for a 1 yr contract, and then trade him and the new team could give Abraham his big deal. But 1) I'm not entirely sure that's legal (although I'd suspect it is) and 2) it would take a lot of trust on Abraham's part.

 

[Zigg]

This is one of my two scenarios, sort of. IMO, option one for the Saints is to stand pat and take Leinart. People are drooling over the flash of Bush/Young, but I think Leinart will be the best pro. The Saints have alot of weapons, and have interviewed Martz. Leinart/Deuce/Stallworth/Horn/Henderson/Hilton and a couple nice pieces on the O-line looks very good.

Option two for me is to trade down to the Jets. I figure at the minimum the Saints would get #4, a 2nd, and a 2nd next year. However, given the players available at #2 this year, the Saints might be able to squeeze a 1st rounder out of the Jets. At #4, take either D'Brick or Hawk. Considering LBs rarely go in the top 5, they might even be able to trade again and still get Hawk.

Either of these would make me happy.

Has any heard any reports that the Jets are considering trading up and/or that the Saints are considering trading down or is this all pure speculation? Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the speculating, I was just wondering if there were any front office rumors floating around. I think most Saints fans would be ticked off if the Saints traded down (thereby giving away Leinart or Bush) and then taking a linebacker and a couple of 2nd rounders. These guys won the Heisman trophy was a reason. I could be wrong but I don't think A.J. and D'Brickshaw a lot of Heisman votes. And don't sell me that Eric Crouch-Heisman winners don't equal NFL success.

Jets fans are drooling over Bush/Leinart for the same reason that Loomis and Benson should be drooling over them.

I've heard nothing, and this is 100% specultion on my part. As for trading down, the Saints have alot of holes to deal with. I see no reason to draft Bush as I'm not as sold on him as most, so for me it comes down to whether or not one of the two big QBs is better than one 1st and 2 2nds? Question for Jets fans, what is Pennington's future? Is trading up a realistic option going into the draft fot the Jets? I would also like to add that trading down to #6 with the Raiders seems interesting as well, should Hawk be available. Maybe something like #2 for #6, 2nd, day 2 pick, 2nd next year, and Andrew Walter. It may seem like alot but trading into the top 3 will be expensive this year.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This is one of my two scenarios, sort of. IMO, option one for the Saints is to stand pat and take Leinart. People are drooling over the flash of Bush/Young, but I think Leinart will be the best pro. The Saints have alot of weapons, and have interviewed Martz. Leinart/Deuce/Stallworth/Horn/Henderson/Hilton and a couple nice pieces on the O-line looks very good.

Option two for me is to trade down to the Jets. I figure at the minimum the Saints would get #4, a 2nd, and a 2nd next year. However, given the players available at #2 this year, the Saints might be able to squeeze a 1st rounder out of the Jets. At #4, take either D'Brick or Hawk. Considering LBs rarely go in the top 5, they might even be able to trade again and still get Hawk.

Either of these would make me happy.

Has any heard any reports that the Jets are considering trading up and/or that the Saints are considering trading down or is this all pure speculation? Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the speculating, I was just wondering if there were any front office rumors floating around. I think most Saints fans would be ticked off if the Saints traded down (thereby giving away Leinart or Bush) and then taking a linebacker and a couple of 2nd rounders. These guys won the Heisman trophy was a reason. I could be wrong but I don't think A.J. and D'Brickshaw a lot of Heisman votes. And don't sell me that Eric Crouch-Heisman winners don't equal NFL success.

Jets fans are drooling over Bush/Leinart for the same reason that Loomis and Benson should be drooling over them.

I've heard nothing, and this is 100% specultion on my part. As for trading down, the Saints have alot of holes to deal with. I see no reason to draft Bush as I'm not as sold on him as most, so for me it comes down to whether or not one of the two big QBs is better than one 1st and 2 2nds? Question for Jets fans, what is Pennington's future? Is trading up a realistic option going into the draft fot the Jets? I would also like to add that trading down to #6 with the Raiders seems interesting as well, should Hawk be available. Maybe something like #2 for #6, 2nd, day 2 pick, 2nd next year, and Andrew Walter. It may seem like alot but trading into the top 3 will be expensive this year.

Pennington's future is certainly up in the air. For what it's worth, 31 weeks after his surgery last year he won an NFL game. 31 weeks after his surgery this year he'll be in mini-camp.Obviously, he's got a lot more time to recover this year, AND his injury was less severe.

Some questioned his ability on the field and his ability to remain on the field, and neither of those things change with his injury this year. But he should be fully recovered for the start of the 2006 season, possibly with his arm feeling as good as ever.

But that still doesn't change whether he'll have a new injury or not play well.