Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@ProFootballTalk: Source: Rams QB Sam Bradford has torn ACL.
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Sam Bradord--torn ACL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bigboy10182000
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Bye Bye Sam, no way St Louis has plans to extend him now.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Bump Stacy.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Downgrade all Rams if you haven't already.
St Louis is gonna need to find a QB who already knows how to play. They can't wait to develop a QB for another 3-4 years. Fisher is gonna want to find someone that can come in and start.
St Louis is gonna need to find a QB who already knows how to play. They can't wait to develop a QB for another 3-4 years. Fisher is gonna want to find someone that can come in and start.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i'm not certain about that, but it is possible...
in theory he is signed through 2015, and rams could defer decision for two more years...
bradford is due $14 mil in 2014 and $13 mil in 2015, reportedly none of which is guaranteed...
not sure when those payments are due (ie - will rams get a chance to see how well he is rehabbing before they come due?)...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Saw that the Rams were looking to bring in Tebow...
That could actually lead to some nice numbers for Stacy.
That could actually lead to some nice numbers for Stacy.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
There is your answer. The team can spend that money in other ways. Bradford is not willing them into the playoffs. He's OK but he's not going to be a top 10 QB in the league, why keep the experiment going? Plus they are handicapped against teams like SF and Sea right now who pay peanuts for their QB. That will change but what an opp for them to get better. Sometimes it is addition by subtraction.
drummer
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
reportedly the rams were interested in extending him (this was mentioned a few weeks ago)... would you agree that IF THAT WAS THEIR PLAN, than that could render the financial part moot...maybe they were prepared to pay the 2014 & 2015 amounts... maybe by extending him, they could structure the contract in such a way that the cap hit is reduced in those years... maybe bradford will be more likely to sign an extension if availed the opportunity under the circumstances (guess it depends on the terms)...
i'm just suggesting IF that was the rams plan, and we know a torn ACL is rarely a death blow to player's careers any more, this may not be an automatic, slam dunk type of decision you seem to be suggesting it is, or will be...
ultimately, what you or i think is incidental... does fisher think bradford is a potential franchise QB, that can lead them to the playoffs...
it would seem he did as recently as 2012? he cited bradford specifically as a big reason he chose STL over MIA... as well as the 1.2 pick... than he doubled down by NOT drafting RGIII with that pick, instead choosing to build the team around bradford (austin, cook, etc.)... since that time, as some might expect, he has shown signs of improvment...
predictably, people that are down on bradford (not referring to you but in general) emphasize metrics that haven't improved, and dismiss signs of improvement as flukes, aberrations or small samples (names like sanchez, fitzpatrick and volek were brought up - if fisher thinks bradford is in their category as far as future potential, i don't think he would have made the decisions he has so far)...
you say he is just OK and top 10, but think of some top 10 QBs... probably a lot of them played for better teams... playing with the rams teams in 2010 and 2011 (when not injured from being sacked constantly) that bradford did, it is possible that some of the top 10 QBs you had in mind all of a sudden wouldn't be top ten anymore, and you would be saying the same things about them you are are about bradford now...
he has a low YPA, but also one of highest drop rates in league (and youngest team in league)... but he was in fact better than top 10, more like top 5, in TDs and fewest INTs among starters... the way the defense played in the DAL and SF game, the non-competitive losses can't be put all on him...
the 49ers and seahawks do have their QBs at bargain prices, and you are right, it won't always be that way... the track record of second and third round QBs isn't that great for the last decade or so, but they appear to have beat the odds... they are helped by their systems, but they aren't system QBs, they can elevate their teams on their own...
sometimes it is subtraction by subtraction and subtraction by addition if you drop and add the wrong players...
there is still a lot of time between now and then... how high will the STL and WAS picks be...
one way to look at it is bradford is maxed out and will never improve... i don't see it that way... there is a lot of disagreement about if he is mediocre or better than that, capable of improvement or not... something that could be said about bradford, if the naysayers are wrong, and he is capable of more, and was playing better (hard to say for those who only watched him against SF this year, again, that is a general comment, MoP), than fisher has a known, real baseline to work with, and potential upside from there (i won't rehash all the resons for that)... a rookie would be complete unknown, does fisher want to hitch his wagon to a complete unknown...
all rookie QBs are unknowns, but maybe luck and RGIII less so... are louisville and oregon prospects in that class? will the rams draft high enough to get one (pencil in JAX for one of them)?
bradford is more expensive than SF and SEA QBs (bad luck he was last #1 overall pick signed under previous labor agreement, also chris long was a #2 overall under old agreement), just not sure it is obvious going cheaper at the position is clearly the answer...
if fisher clearly thinks one of the QBs in class of '14 could be answer, than sure, your point could be well taken... i'm just not as sure as you that will definitely be the case... fisher won't make a move like that (cut bradford, use high pick on QB) if he doesn't think they are difference makers, just because they will be cheaper (and again, maybe restructuring bradford's contract an option)...
they don't necessarily have to match up to SF and SEA on point-by-point correspondence level to be competitive with them... one thing they have done was to parlay the RGIII pick into multiple first round picks, so far on defense... i'mtheseahawk has criticized most/all of their picks, typical being non-seahawks and all, maybe he thinks brockers and ogletree will be terrible, too?
the salary cap is big enough that when well managed (much better by demoff than in some previous times, when there was a lot of dead money on books), it can accomodate for many different ways to build a roster...
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Bob, as always you have an excellent well thought out post. I didn't want to quote the whole thing over again but do want to answer back.
-Excellent points about Fisher, he could have had RG3 and opted out.
-I feel Big Ben is a top 10 NFL QB regardless of fantasy stats, it's a combination of leadership and ability not just one or the other for me.
-The big contracts from Bradford and Long from when the NFL was handing out big bonuses for the top5 picks in the draft, those need to come off the books soon and they will but those types of contracts and other blown top picks by the Rams have really hurt them.
It just seems like the fan base you represent kind of has their hands in the air like "What can we do?" It's the same stuff I hear form Phinsfans down here until i start going blow by blow, move by move, off season after off season of terrible decisions one after the other that even when they do score a hit in the front office it's like throwing a cup of water on a 100 acre wild fire.
Good luck to you Bob, as always I enjoy the time and energy you put into each and every word.
-Excellent points about Fisher, he could have had RG3 and opted out.
-I feel Big Ben is a top 10 NFL QB regardless of fantasy stats, it's a combination of leadership and ability not just one or the other for me.
-The big contracts from Bradford and Long from when the NFL was handing out big bonuses for the top5 picks in the draft, those need to come off the books soon and they will but those types of contracts and other blown top picks by the Rams have really hurt them.
It just seems like the fan base you represent kind of has their hands in the air like "What can we do?" It's the same stuff I hear form Phinsfans down here until i start going blow by blow, move by move, off season after off season of terrible decisions one after the other that even when they do score a hit in the front office it's like throwing a cup of water on a 100 acre wild fire.
Good luck to you Bob, as always I enjoy the time and energy you put into each and every word.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
likewise, MoP, thanks...
I should have acknowledged you aren't advocating a rookie (but the opposite), that was addressed to the many that seemingly are assuming that route...
rothliesberger has been a more successful QB... but partly we think of him that way BECAUSE he won two super bowls, which he almost certainly wouldn't have if he had switched places with bradford... In which case I'm not at all certain we would think of him in the exact same way we do now...
they already extended long, coming into 2013, I think he was near top 5 in combined sacks past three seasons? they also extended laurinaitis (high second rounder), with the rationale they were strengths of the team, and cornerstone defenders/players to build around... sometimes it is nice to ADD other players (like brockers and ogletree) to players you already have, instead of continually tearing down and rebuilding, forced to use valuable picks on replacements...
if they don't use pick on QB, they could use OL, possibly RB upgrade, safety huge hole (they don't typically get drafted high, except for eric berry-type prospects), and finnegan didn't look very good before going down with injury, so not sure about his status in 2014 (how much does his contract pay him next year - definitely wasn't worth what he was making this year, so far, how far will fisher's loyalty extend if his play has deteriorated to the point he is a liability?)... jenkins played better last year, I thought, trumaine johnson is capable of being a starter, but not sure they wouldn't take a first round CB if the opportunity presents itself...
you may be right, MoP, your take may even be the consensus...
there does seem to be a disconnect... the information coming from INSIDE the organization, last year and this year, doesn't seem to be as dire as what reading some of the posts here might lead one to believe.
I should have acknowledged you aren't advocating a rookie (but the opposite), that was addressed to the many that seemingly are assuming that route...
rothliesberger has been a more successful QB... but partly we think of him that way BECAUSE he won two super bowls, which he almost certainly wouldn't have if he had switched places with bradford... In which case I'm not at all certain we would think of him in the exact same way we do now...
they already extended long, coming into 2013, I think he was near top 5 in combined sacks past three seasons? they also extended laurinaitis (high second rounder), with the rationale they were strengths of the team, and cornerstone defenders/players to build around... sometimes it is nice to ADD other players (like brockers and ogletree) to players you already have, instead of continually tearing down and rebuilding, forced to use valuable picks on replacements...
if they don't use pick on QB, they could use OL, possibly RB upgrade, safety huge hole (they don't typically get drafted high, except for eric berry-type prospects), and finnegan didn't look very good before going down with injury, so not sure about his status in 2014 (how much does his contract pay him next year - definitely wasn't worth what he was making this year, so far, how far will fisher's loyalty extend if his play has deteriorated to the point he is a liability?)... jenkins played better last year, I thought, trumaine johnson is capable of being a starter, but not sure they wouldn't take a first round CB if the opportunity presents itself...
you may be right, MoP, your take may even be the consensus...
there does seem to be a disconnect... the information coming from INSIDE the organization, last year and this year, doesn't seem to be as dire as what reading some of the posts here might lead one to believe.
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MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Not saying he's gonna do it, but it's early enough in Fisher's tour in STL that he could milk a few years out of the new QB adjustments. But he might rather want to play that one in another 2 years.
duaneok66
Footballguy
Considering that the Rams have zero rushing touchdowns through October 21st with Bradford & the play-calling that went along with him, I suppose there's a bit of truth in there somewhere.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
What veteran QB's are scheduled to hit the market next year?
They will probably roll with klemens this week seeing as how he knows the offense. Notable guys that are out there: Tim Tebow, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Charlie Batch?, Dennis Dixon, Graham Harrell, Mike Kafka, Matt Leinart, John Skelton... 
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
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The Hank
Footballguy
Have any of these guys worked with Schottenheimer before? That'll give a big clue who will get picked upThey will probably roll with klemens this week seeing as how he knows the offense. Notable guys that are out there: Tim Tebow, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Charlie Batch?, Dennis Dixon, Graham Harrell, Mike Kafka, Matt Leinart, John Skelton...
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
The Hank
Footballguy
Just thought about it -- I think Tebow has beforeHave any of these guys worked with Schottenheimer before? That'll give a big clue who will get picked upThey will probably roll with klemens this week seeing as how he knows the offense. Notable guys that are out there: Tim Tebow, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Charlie Batch?, Dennis Dixon, Graham Harrell, Mike Kafka, Matt Leinart, John Skelton...
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
Lol Yep. the only other guy was Kellen Clemens, who has been a career backup.Just thought about it -- I think Tebow has beforeHave any of these guys worked with Schottenheimer before? That'll give a big clue who will get picked upThey will probably roll with klemens this week seeing as how he knows the offense. Notable guys that are out there: Tim Tebow, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Charlie Batch?, Dennis Dixon, Graham Harrell, Mike Kafka, Matt Leinart, John Skelton...
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
Joe Summer
Footballguy
List of available quarterbacks who have worked with Brian Schottenheimer:Greg McElroy (2011 Jets)Have any of these guys worked with Schottenheimer before? That'll give a big clue who will get picked upThey will probably roll with klemens this week seeing as how he knows the offense. Notable guys that are out there: Tim Tebow, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Charlie Batch?, Dennis Dixon, Graham Harrell, Mike Kafka, Matt Leinart, John Skelton...
ETA: guys that hit the market: http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
Mark Brunell (2010 Jets)
Kevin O'Connell (2009-2011 Jets)
Erik Ainge (2008-2009 Jets)
Brett Favre (2008 Jets)
Brett Ratliff (2007-2008 Jets)
Marques Tuiasosopo (2007 Jets)
Patrick Ramsey (2006 Jets)
