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Santonio fined 10k, what if (1 Viewer)

Bri

Footballguy
G.O.A.T. Tier
Santonio was fined 10k for his excessive celebration in the endzone.

If the Steelers were penalized 15 yards on the kickoff, would it have matterred?

FWIW NFL said the officials didn't notice it during the game so, technically it's not wrong that it wasn't called. If you think they should have noticed it, well that's a different matter but they can't call what they don't see.

 
Santonio was fined 10k for his excessive celebration in the endzone.If the Steelers were penalized 15 yards on the kickoff, would it have matterred?FWIW NFL said the officials didn't notice it during the game so, technically it's not wrong that it wasn't called. If you think they should have noticed it, well that's a different matter but they can't call what they don't see.
Of course it would have mattered.And of course they "noticed it".The officiating in that game was so ridiculously one-sided that it almost made me forget the Pittsburgh/Seattle Super Bowl. What happened to "let them play"?
 
while they were reviewing, the other officials had to see it on the big screen.....i'm a Steeler fan, but that should have been flagged.

 
They didn't notice it? What exactly were they doing that they failed to notice what the player did after a game-changing score in the final minute of the Super Bowl?

I don't know if it would have made a difference, though. If the Cards needed a FG, obviously. But a TD was a tall order no matter what. Anything can happen, but 15 more yards would make the task only slightly less challenging.

Put another minute on the clock and I'd change my mind, but there was so little time left.

 
It could have mattered, but we'll never know.....

It only took Warner/Fitz 2 plays & 8 seconds to march down the field on the long TD catch......I'm just sayin'. :lmao:

 
I can understand why something like that would take 3 weeks to review, so I am glad they at least took their time and made sure to get it right at some point. That's really what's important. I am still hoping we can go back and review some plays from 1990's as well.

 
One sided officiating?

You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run?

You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?

Or how about not calling a 15 yard personal foul on Warner when he was in the officials face arguing that fumble with his HELMET OFF?

Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center?

Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12?

And no they did not see the Holmes prop celebration. It happened a long time after the actual TD and you can look on replays that the refs were walking with their backs toward Holmes and spotting the ball for extra point and getting ready to review feet in bounds when he did it. Holmes sat on the ground hugging the ball for 30 seconds after the catch.

And sorry, if I don't see the advantage Pitt got from having Holmes use the ball as a prop. People are acting as if it was a missed pass interference call or something.

 
One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or how about not calling a 15 yard personal foul on Warner when he was in the officials face arguing that fumble with his HELMET OFF?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12? And no they did not see the Holmes prop celebration. It happened a long time after the actual TD and you can look on replays that the refs were walking with their backs toward Holmes and spotting the ball for extra point and getting ready to review feet in bounds when he did it. Holmes sat on the ground hugging the ball for 30 seconds after the catch.And sorry, if I don't see the advantage Pitt got from having Holmes use the ball as a prop. People are acting as if it was a missed pass interference call or something.
:excited: I was also wondering why Warner didn't get 15 yards. Must be more of that "one sided" officiating. :cry:
 
SharkBait said:
Bri said:
Santonio was fined 10k for his excessive celebration in the endzone.If the Steelers were penalized 15 yards on the kickoff, would it have matterred?FWIW NFL said the officials didn't notice it during the game so, technically it's not wrong that it wasn't called. If you think they should have noticed it, well that's a different matter but they can't call what they don't see.
Of course it would have mattered.And of course they "noticed it".The officiating in that game was so ridiculously one-sided that it almost made me forget the Pittsburgh/Seattle Super Bowl. What happened to "let them play"?
That was a bad missed call and I agree that it makes a difference but :rolleyes: at one-sided officiating. The calls were bad in both directions. You need a tissue.........
 
One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or how about not calling a 15 yard personal foul on Warner when he was in the officials face arguing that fumble with his HELMET OFF?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12? And no they did not see the Holmes prop celebration. It happened a long time after the actual TD and you can look on replays that the refs were walking with their backs toward Holmes and spotting the ball for extra point and getting ready to review feet in bounds when he did it. Holmes sat on the ground hugging the ball for 30 seconds after the catch.And sorry, if I don't see the advantage Pitt got from having Holmes use the ball as a prop. People are acting as if it was a missed pass interference call or something.
:rolleyes: People only like to see the "one-sided" bad calls because they hate the Steelers and their fans. It's the same thing with teams like the Cowboys or Patriots. People just want to see them lose so will conjure up any excuse they can. Pretty pathetic.
 
People do need to watch the replay though. After he catches it, he gets piled on by Ward and company and a good 30+ seconds goes by before he even gets up. A good chance that the refs werent even facing him.

Oh well :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :nerd: :towelwave: :towelwave:

 
SharkBait said:
Bri said:
Santonio was fined 10k for his excessive celebration in the endzone.If the Steelers were penalized 15 yards on the kickoff, would it have matterred?FWIW NFL said the officials didn't notice it during the game so, technically it's not wrong that it wasn't called. If you think they should have noticed it, well that's a different matter but they can't call what they don't see.
Of course it would have mattered.And of course they "noticed it".The officiating in that game was so ridiculously one-sided that it almost made me forget the Pittsburgh/Seattle Super Bowl. What happened to "let them play"?
Is this supposed to be in line with your name on here? Bait?Because surely you are fishing.
 
People do need to watch the replay though. After he catches it, he gets piled on by Ward and company and a good 30+ seconds goes by before he even gets up. A good chance that the refs werent even facing him. Oh well :goodposting: :lmao: :lmao: :towelwave: :towelwave: :towelwave:
I thought this was all over with...but I watched the game starting with the Holmes catch with all of this in mind.What I saw was that almost exactly 19 seconds passed from the time Holmes caught the ball until he began his celebration. You can see him start his cute little routine if you watch the broadcast. After the Steelers who were hugging him on the ground get off, Holmes gets up, turns toward the field of play, and then starts moving the ball before the camera cuts away to start showing replays of the reaction to the catch and of the catch itself. The interesting part of this is the information I heard that the refs are instructed to look for 15 seconds for celebrations. To those who believe the call was missed, I can understand your perspective. However, I hope you can agree that there needs to be some kind of time limit for when the officials start to move on to their other tasks.Bri, of course you're not the first to throw out the postulate of what would have happened if the celebration penalty had been called, and the hypothetical sequence of events usually goes like this:If a 15-yard penalty had been assessed on the kickoff, then the Cardinals would have had the ball at their own 38 instead of the 23.Then the "(:29) (Shotgun) K.Warner pass deep left to L.Fitzgerald to ARZ 43 for 20 yards (L.Timmons) moves the ball to the PITT 42.And the "(:22) (Shotgun) K.Warner pass short middle to J.Arrington to PIT 44 for 13 yards (J.Harrison) places the ball at the PITT 29.Then there are two variations of what happens next. One is that the Cardinals don't take as long to get the next pass off, as they don't need a full-blown Hail Mary type play. And you usually hear something like "and we all know how good Fitzgerald is on jump balls" as the kicker. The second full-blown conspiracy theorist approach is to look at the fumble that did occur and suggest it was an incomplete pass. Tack on the 15-yard celebration penalty on Woodley and it's Arizona's ball on the Pittsburgh 14 with one play left.The enormous flaw in the logic espoused above is the two tacit assumptions that are made in proposing these scenarios.1. Each play would have occurred exactly as they did in the original timeline (sorry, I know it sounds like a science fiction film).2. The Holmes celebration non-call was the only call that mattered in the game -- or even in the last 43 seconds of game time.Of course, although the conspiracy theorists are (sometimes) willing to entertain the possibility that Warner would not have been sacked and therefore not fumble if given 15 yards better field position, they tend not to allow for the possibility that the defensive approaches by the Steelers would likely have changed (at least some) if that indeed had been the case. It is reasonable to suggest that the exact plays -- especially the first pass to Fitz that was not a dump off -- may have been taken away or perhaps resulted in a lesser gain. If each play gains even a few less yards because the prevent defense is not as pronounced, then some of the 15 yards is negated.More importantly, expounding on item 2 above, it is only human nature to examine the result of the game and consider how the result might have been altered. By far, more thought is given to how the losing team may have won, both in terms of their missed opportunites and mistakes and yes, the officiating. So when the game is intensely scrutinized, play by play, looking for every POSSIBLE call that was favorable to the Steelers, then of course a case can be made that the officiating was a factor in the Steelers win. However, what tends to be missed is both the concept that officiating affects nearly every game to some degree and most significantly, that the calls/non-calls that helped Arizona are more or less ignored.So with all this in mind, those of you who have the game available to view should look at the kickoff following Holmes' touchdown. Patrick Bailey (#55) of the Steelers is heading straight down the field at the Arizona returner with a clean path to the ball carrier when a Cardinal (I think Francisco, #47) pushes him directly from behind, with both hands right on his numbers, pushing him to the side of the ball carrier. It happens right between the hashmarks at the 15-yard line.Are we allowed to factor this missed call into the final 35 seconds, or is it only the Holmes missed call? Let's have Reed kickoff from the 15-yard line. If called, this illegal block would have occurred at the 30-yard line. With the ten yard markoff, the first Arizona play would happen at the 20, instead of the 23 as it did. How's the new timeline look now? Which is the worse missed call? One that happened nearly 20 seconds after the play, or one that happened live a few yards ahead of the ball?Like I said, I understand the natural inclination to examine how the Cardinals might have won instead of the Steelers, but nearly any game can be analyzed on a play-by-play basis to find details that were POSSIBLY missed and/or flat-out wrong. But the officiating cannot be cherry-picked looking only at how it hurt one team. Most of all, what actually did happen cannot be assumed to play out the exact same way should one or two calls have been different.
 
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One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12?
So several calls go in the Steelers favor and it takes a review to get the call right... that's part of your proof of balanced officiating?Or several legitimate penaltys go against the Steelers and that's the rest of your argument?Dude, I don't take issue with the SB officiating but your logic is flawed and obnoxious.
 
One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12?
So several calls go in the Steelers favor and it takes a review to get the call right... that's part of your proof of balanced officiating?Or several legitimate penaltys go against the Steelers and that's the rest of your argument?Dude, I don't take issue with the SB officiating but your logic is flawed and obnoxious.
I dont find it flawed at all.Everyone wants to mention the calls that should have gone in favor of the Cards, but no one mentions the calls that were obviously not called for the Steelers. I havent seen one mention of Fitzgerald's obvious block in the back on Boldin's long catch before B Patrick's TD. People only want to talk about the "obvious" block in the back on Hightower on Harrison's return. Oh well. Keep crying everyone. We can sop up all the tears with :thumbup:
 
One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12?
So several calls go in the Steelers favor and it takes a review to get the call right... that's part of your proof of balanced officiating?Or several legitimate penaltys go against the Steelers and that's the rest of your argument?Dude, I don't take issue with the SB officiating but your logic is flawed and obnoxious.
I dont find it flawed at all.Everyone wants to mention the calls that should have gone in favor of the Cards, but no one mentions the calls that were obviously not called for the Steelers. I havent seen one mention of Fitzgerald's obvious block in the back on Boldin's long catch before B Patrick's TD. People only want to talk about the "obvious" block in the back on Hightower on Harrison's return. Oh well. Keep crying everyone. We can sop up all the tears with :lmao:
Try to pay attention.Your objective is to prove his logic isn't flawed, not to present a different argument.
 
One sided officiating?You mean when they took 6 pts off the board on Ben's almost TD run? You mean when they reviewed a Warner pass to turn it from a fumble to an incomplete pass?Or when they put 2 pts safety on the board for Arizona on the "holding" call that was more like a lineman running over the center? Or when on the first play of the last 2 minute TD drive they called a holding penalty to put Steelers first and 20 at their own 12?
So several calls go in the Steelers favor and it takes a review to get the call right... that's part of your proof of balanced officiating?Or several legitimate penaltys go against the Steelers and that's the rest of your argument?Dude, I don't take issue with the SB officiating but your logic is flawed and obnoxious.
What don't you get? I am saying as proof that the officials are not one sided several different scenarios in which they could have been one sided if they wanted to but didn't. It's proof it was a balanced game. I could give several other examples, but NOBODY will ever see the other side of the story because either you love the Steelers or you hate them. Teams that are overmatched physically (as the Cards were except at the skilled positions) tend to do a lot of holding, facemasks, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't call a penalty cause they keep doing it.All the reviews were spot on. The refs missed a 15 yard unsportsmanlike on both teams (Warner and Holmes). I greatly see it as opposite that at the most crucial periods in the games, the Cards got all the calls.At the time, the pass from the endzone practically could have sealed the win for the Steeelers, but the refs called a holding penalty that turned first and 10 with 2+ minutes left to 2 pts for the Cards and the ball back. I don't see that as favoring the Steelers. Nor do I see on the first play of the Steelers last drive that calling a ticky tacky holding penalty and forcing a 1st and 20 from the 12 as a ref's call favoring the Steelers. DO YOU?
 
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SharkBait said:
Bri said:
Santonio was fined 10k for his excessive celebration in the endzone.If the Steelers were penalized 15 yards on the kickoff, would it have matterred?FWIW NFL said the officials didn't notice it during the game so, technically it's not wrong that it wasn't called. If you think they should have noticed it, well that's a different matter but they can't call what they don't see.
Of course it would have mattered.And of course they "noticed it".The officiating in that game was so ridiculously one-sided that it almost made me forget the Pittsburgh/Seattle Super Bowl. What happened to "let them play"?
:fishing:
 
I sure hope the next team the Steelers beat in the SB isn't from the NFC West. It feels like 2006 all over again.

 
Are we allowed to factor this missed call into the final 35 seconds, or is it only the Holmes missed call? Let's have Reed kickoff from the 15-yard line. If called, this illegal block would have occurred at the 30-yard line. With the ten yard markoff, the first Arizona play would happen at the 20, instead of the 23 as it did. How's the new timeline look now? Which is the worse missed call? One that happened nearly 20 seconds after the play, or one that happened live a few yards ahead of the ball?
While I am a Cardinal fan, I am not complaining. They won the game. Calls were good and bad for both teams, thats how the game goes. But to compare a missed call like a block in the back or a hold (which happens on every play of every game) to a celebration with the ball (which is undoubtedly a penalty) is not very accurate in my opinion.Truth of the matter is, is that we'll never know what happens if 'this or that' actually were to occur. Obviously, as a fan, its easy to say oh we would have won if 'this' happened or if it didn't happen but it's irrelevant. The OP just asked 'Would it have mattered?' if the call was made. We'll never know. Even with the 15 yards the odds were still extremely against anything happening.
 
Are we allowed to factor this missed call into the final 35 seconds, or is it only the Holmes missed call? Let's have Reed kickoff from the 15-yard line. If called, this illegal block would have occurred at the 30-yard line. With the ten yard markoff, the first Arizona play would happen at the 20, instead of the 23 as it did. How's the new timeline look now? Which is the worse missed call? One that happened nearly 20 seconds after the play, or one that happened live a few yards ahead of the ball?
While I am a Cardinal fan, I am not complaining. They won the game. Calls were good and bad for both teams, thats how the game goes. But to compare a missed call like a block in the back or a hold (which happens on every play of every game) to a celebration with the ball (which is undoubtedly a penalty) is not very accurate in my opinion.Truth of the matter is, is that we'll never know what happens if 'this or that' actually were to occur. Obviously, as a fan, its easy to say oh we would have won if 'this' happened or if it didn't happen but it's irrelevant. The OP just asked 'Would it have mattered?' if the call was made. We'll never know. Even with the 15 yards the odds were still extremely against anything happening.
I appreciate your response, but mentioning holding only muddies the issue. A two-handed shove in the back in the middle of the field on a kickoff return when their is very little possibility of the play being blocked by big bodies does not happen and get missed on every play. I will also rephrase my previous comment to read that it can easily be argued that not seeing a celebration that occurs 20 seconds after the play is over is a more understandable miss by the officials than a block in the back in the middle of the field on a live-action play that the officials see routinely several times a game and in which they are theoretically perfectly positioned.I will also repeat the crux of my argument, which is that one cannot just choose to look at two or three calls that were beneficial to one team while ignoring calls that went the opposite way, and that the remaining plays of the game cannot be assumed to happen in the same manner if different calls had been made or not made. The psychology of looking to see how the team that lost might have won is much stronger than looking for ways in which the team that won might have won by a larger margin. I was sucked in for awhile too despite being a Steeler fan.I'm not even really discussing the SB XLIII calls anymore as much as trying to move the conversation into another more general realm. It isn't just a football issue. This surfaces even more regularly in college and pro basketball.
 
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Here's a quote concerning the missed celebration call from a USA Today article.

"Well, it would have been (called) if we had seen it. It was one of these plays where it happened so far after the play was over," said Pereira.

On Monday morning, commissioner Roger Goodell declined to speculate on the legality of Holmes' celebration after handing out the Super Bowl MVP award to the Steelers receiver.

"I was on the field," Goodell said. "I couldn't even see it."

On the NFL Network, Pereira watched a replay of field judge Greg Gautreaux making the touchdown call and then standing near Holmes.

"Greg Gautreaux makes the call and then does everything I ask him to do: watch, watch, watch. Nothing seemed like it's gonna happen, and this is a great period of time. This is all acceptable celebration."

But after about 15 seconds, as the officials turned away, Holmes got to his celebration. Pereira said the officials were setting up for the extra point.

"You'll see the official turn away here because we're setting up for the try," said Pereira. "Had he ended up facing us, we certainly would have called this. … It is clearly using the ball as a prop and it would have been a foul if we had seen it."
How long is reasonable for the officials to monitor the players for potential celebrations vs. paying attention to the on-field substitutions, lining up for the extra point, and the actual try itself? Can you imagine if the officials miss an offside call leading to a blocked PAT at a critical time only to explain that they were distracted by looking for a celebration 30 seconds after the play had ended? That's only a 10 second difference from this situation. How long is long enough?The time after the play is an extremely important detail, because it is no longer an issue of the officials missing a call they should always see vs. a far more understandable scenario in which they cannot call what they cannot see because they are looking at the play of the game on the field.

 
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Are we allowed to factor this missed call into the final 35 seconds, or is it only the Holmes missed call? Let's have Reed kickoff from the 15-yard line. If called, this illegal block would have occurred at the 30-yard line. With the ten yard markoff, the first Arizona play would happen at the 20, instead of the 23 as it did. How's the new timeline look now? Which is the worse missed call? One that happened nearly 20 seconds after the play, or one that happened live a few yards ahead of the ball?
While I am a Cardinal fan, I am not complaining. They won the game. Calls were good and bad for both teams, thats how the game goes. But to compare a missed call like a block in the back or a hold (which happens on every play of every game) to a celebration with the ball (which is undoubtedly a penalty) is not very accurate in my opinion.Truth of the matter is, is that we'll never know what happens if 'this or that' actually were to occur. Obviously, as a fan, its easy to say oh we would have won if 'this' happened or if it didn't happen but it's irrelevant. The OP just asked 'Would it have mattered?' if the call was made. We'll never know. Even with the 15 yards the odds were still extremely against anything happening.
I appreciate your response, but mentioning holding only muddies the issue. A two-handed shove in the back in the middle of the field on a kickoff return when their is very little possibility of the play being blocked by big bodies does not happen and get missed on every play. I will also rephrase my previous comment to read that it can easily be argued that not seeing a celebration that occurs 20 seconds after the play is over is a more understandable miss by the officials than a block in the back in the middle of the field on a live-action play that the officials see routinely several times a game and in which they are theoretically perfectly positioned.I will also repeat the crux of my argument, which is that one cannot just choose to look at two or three calls that were beneficial to one team while ignoring calls that went the opposite way, and that the remaining plays of the game cannot be assumed to happen in the same manner if different calls had been made or not made. The psychology of looking to see how the team that lost might have won is much stronger than looking for ways in which the team that won might have won by a larger margin. I was sucked in for awhile too despite being a Steeler fan.I'm not even really discussing the SB XLIII calls anymore as much as trying to move the conversation into another more general realm. It isn't just a football issue. This surfaces even more regularly in college and pro basketball.
I definitely see what your saying, but the fact is that ever since they started cracking down on endzone celebrations, usually any and every celebration gets flagged. In most games, since the new celebration crack down, I would say that it is reasonable to say that there are more missed clipping calls then there are missed excessive celebration calls. And all of this only makes me want to bring up a comment like...'So if someone wants to celebrate after a touchdown catch, all they have to do is wait 30 seconds until noone is paying attention, so they won't get flagged?' Although it seems juvenile, it seems like a reasonable response.I do agree with you that you cannot just pick and choose a few penalties to look at and I wasn't trying to do that. Like I said in my first post, there are good calls and bad calls in every game, thats just how it goes.
 
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is "Did that situation affect the outcome of the game?" We'll never know 100 percent, but I'm pretty confident it did not. The odds of the Cards scoring that quickly are very remote (yes they scored quickly earlier in the quarter but the game situation was very different). In the end, it was the clock that worked against them, not the officiating. In hindsight, letting Holmes score on that long pass and run would have been a better move. Not that they could have known it then.

Their D played poorly in the biggest drive in franchise history, and they deserved to lose. But since I have yet to hear a *good* piece of offseason Cardinals news, I guess the "what ifs" are all they have left.

 
I equate Holmes' celebration and Warner's taking off the helmet as pretty much the same thing. Both should have been flagged.

The NFL explained why the Holmes celebration wasn't flagged: it occurred long enough after the play that the officials were setting up for the PAT and didn't see it. Not acceptable but at least they have an explanation.

What I haven't heard is an explanation on why Warner wasn't flagged when he was right in the face of an official without his helmet on. No way the official couldn't have seen that unless his name is Stevie Wonder.

 
And all of this only makes me want to bring up a comment like...'So if someone wants to celebrate after a touchdown catch, all they have to do is wait 30 seconds until noone is paying attention, so they won't get flagged?' Although it seems juvenile, it seems like a reasonable response.
I don't think that's a juvenile comment at all. And let me state that as the rules now read, a time delay does not nullify the penalty. It should be called if seen. However, the time lag does make it more logical that the penalty will NOT be seen. I think that's just common sense.As a self-described old school (i.e., well on my way to being a crusty old fogey) type of fan, I dislike any of these "look at me, I scored" celebrations. I love the Larry Fitzgerald approach that I first saw in college at Pitt. I am very disappointed that Holmes put his team at risk for a three second attention grab after the biggest catch of his career. However, the reason the NFL originally instituted the celebration penalty was to avoid on-field responses provoking the other team that might lead to a mini-brawl, and the further clampdown of the past few seasons I believe is for the image of the league. Waiting 20+ seconds to celebrate mitigates the second to a large degree, as TV cameras likely have moved on, as they did in the Super Bowl. Remember, the celebration wasn't shown live. It was only first broadcast during the replay review. (If the play doesn't require review, it might not have been seen until after the game was over or perhaps not at all.) As for the provoking of opponents, waiting 20+ seconds may lessen that somewhat, as instead of the defense being on the field, they are likely being replaced by the special teams kick block team.
 

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