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School system gives a "F" only if they get below a 20 percent (1 Viewer)

larch

Footballguy
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4640349-181/rohnert-park-cotati-schools-rethink?page=0

A new grading scale that redefines what constitutes an A or an F is causing strife and confusion in the Cotati-Rohnert Park school district. Some teachers and officials say it lowers the bar for student success, while others say it encourages students to succeed.

The new system is called the equal interval scale. Essentially, it makes it harder to get a failing grade. It departs from the traditional A to F scale in which students receive Fs for scores below 59 percent. Instead, the scale awards Fs only for scores below 20 percent.

My mentor teacher, shes not enjoying it. Shes got issues with it, said Adam Green, a Rancho Cotate High School math teacher who likes the new system. I respect her and I respectfully disagree.

Under the new policy, grades rise in 20-point increments. For example, scores of 20 to 40 percentage points earn D- through D+ grades and so on, up the ladder. Students get an A- for scoring between 80 and 85, which traditionally is low B territory.

Some teachers have tried to hang on to the traditional grading system but have been tripped up by a blanket new policy that students, even if they do not hand in homework or take a test, get 50 percent. Under the new rule, its possible for a student who skips a test to receive a better grade than a student who takes the test and does poorly.

This is just incomprehensible. I dont have words, said Lanny Lowery, who has taught English at Rancho Cotate High since 1980.

To her knowledge, said Jessica Progulske, curriculum coordinator for student engagement with the Sonoma County Office of Education, Rohnert Park is the only district in the county to have implemented such a system. Some departments at Elsie Allen High School have a somewhat similar system, said Chris White, director of the Santa Rosa City Schools district office of curriculum and instruction.

Cotati-Rohnert Park school administrators say the change reflects a national movement to encourage students to strive rather than demoralizing them with low grades that make success seem out of reach.

Theyve still flunked, but they dont have as much to do mathematically to climb out of the F range, Superintendent Robert Haley said. It doesnt eliminate the F; it doesnt lower the bar.

But opponents of the new policy say it does exactly that.

Anytime you lower the bar, it hurts. You just let people do a more mediocre job, said school board member Leffler Brown, the only trustee to vote against the change in June, when it was adopted over vociferous teacher objections.

When you dont set expectations higher, you get lesser results, Brown said.

The issue also has become a labor dispute. The Rohnert Park teachers union, saying the changes werent negotiated, as their contract requires, and teachers werent properly notified that they would be implemented, pressed the district to negotiate the changes.

The district last week agreed to sit down at the bargaining table, said Maha Gregoretti, a sixth-grade math teacher and president of the Rohnert Park Cotati Educators Association.

Meanwhile, some teachers at Rancho Cotate High, both supporters and opponents of the new policy, have been meeting to see if the new system can be refined to address some of the concerns.

We dont all have the exact same opinion about the scale, but we do all agree that we want to find a way to support kids to make sure that theyre always able to get support to pass their classes, said Valerie Ganzler, an English teacher at the high school who favors the new system.

The new grading structure reflects an honest desire to help the districts students, said Ganzler, who acknowledges that initially she was not sure about it either.

Absolutely, I had concerns, she said. She overcame those doubts in informational meetings organized by the district with staff, administrators and other teachers, she said.

She has noticed a difference already, she said.

I would see students in my classroom who for whatever reason, they would see themselves get further and further behind and at some point you would see some give up and check out, Ganzler said. Having grades that are equal intervals, it is always possible for those kids to catch up.

But other teachers say they have seen the downside of the new system.

Lowery, who has tried to retain the traditional grading system, said he has a student who early in the semester had a grade in the 80s range and another in the 25 percent range, but then stopped coming to class. Because his missed assignments all received a 50 percent, the student has a 49 percent average, instead of the 3 percent average he would have under the previous grading system, Lowery said.

Its a lie, thats all it is, he said.

Tech Middle school math and science teacher James Gregoretti, who is Maha Gregorettis husband, said he has math students who normally would be failing earning Cs. He has a science student with a 23 percent grade getting a D-, he said.

This isnt giving a student hope, he told the board in September, it is lowering standards in order to raise grades.

Haley shows little patience for such complaints, or for stories about students whose grades dont reflect their dismal performance.

I think those teachers are picking out extreme examples, he said. There are a minority of teachers who seem to find a way to flunk students who have demonstrated that they have achieved at least a certain level of passing I dont subscribe to that.

And Green, the Rancho Cotate High math teacher, says the new system allows students to concentrate more on what they are learning than what their marks are at any one point in time.

I found a lot under the old system that they were worried about the grades and less worried about the material, Green said. Within the new system, it gives more of an opportunity for them to work their way toward an understanding of the material.

But Peter Dudik, a Lawrence Jones Middle School math and science teacher, says students are wise to the difference and, as well, parents used to the traditional system are baffled.

Most of the kids that I talk to, who know of the new inflated grading scale, think that it would make a lot of students not try as hard because they know they dont have to, he said.

And parents are confused as to why scores around 50 percent are getting Cs and above.

Ganzler said one refinement to the system that teachers may propose is that instead of receiving a 50 percent for work that isnt done or turned in, students would receive an incomplete and be required to work with their teacher to achieve a passing grade.

Instead of just being an ostrich and sticking your head in the sand and getting 50 percent, you have to go check in with your teacher and your teacher will help you catch up, she said. Itll be a better skill for our students, and itll feel better as a teacher.

 
As long as you make it harder to get a 50% this isn't a bad idea. An average score being 50 makes much more sense than an average being 70.

 
As long as you make it harder to get a 50% this isn't a bad idea. An average score being 50 makes much more sense than an average being 70.
In theory, I agree with you. I fondly remember getting the highest grade in the class on statistics exams while scoring in the low 60s.

In practice, there is no way it will work out like that. You can't give run-of-the-mill students scores that low without pissing them off or making them cry or both.

 
Some students get it.

Most of the kids that I talk to, who know of the new inflated grading scale, think that it would make a lot of students not try as hard because they know they dont have to, he said.

Yep, the losers already bound for loserdom now get to try even less. USA swirling the bowl and getting dumber every day.

 
It sounds like the administration just gave up on trying to educate these kids. How incredibly sad. The school needs to get some educators in there that actually give a ####.

 
It sounds like the administration just gave up on trying to educate these kids. How incredibly sad. The school needs to get some educators in there that actually give a ####.
Well the teachers are complaining this wasn't negotiated. I imagine most teachers aren't happy about this. The article certainly had quotes from plenty of teachers against this. The truth is, most schools I know are moving in the opposite direction. Where I work, tests/papers/projects are worth 75% of student grades. There is no extra credit allowed. No way to pass classes unless students actually know the material.
 
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Some teachers have tried to hang on to the traditional grading system but have been tripped up by a blanket new policy that students, even if they do not hand in homework or take a test, get 50 percent. Under the new rule, its possible for a student who skips a test to receive a better grade than a student who takes the test and does poorly.

...

Lowery, who has tried to retain the traditional grading system, said he has a student who early in the semester had a grade in the 80s range and another in the 25 percent range, but then stopped coming to class. Because his missed assignments all received a 50 percent, the student has a 49 percent average, instead of the 3 percent average he would have under the previous grading system, Lowery said.

...

And parents are confused as to why scores around 50 percent are getting Cs and above.
:lmao: So all you have to do is enroll, then never show up, and they give you a C? :lmao: :lmao:

Theoretically a kid could enroll on the first day of kindergarten, never go to school a day in his life, and pass with C's all the way through high school graduation. Love it :lmao:
Maybe I am wrong, but this system (which I have heard of before, but never heard of it in practice) doesn't make a 50% a C. It just makes the lowest grade possible a 50. So if a kid doesn't take a test or do a project, the lowest grade possible is a 50. The idea is that in the traditional system, if a kid gets a zero on a test because they never took it or scored a 25% because they just didn't get that concept, then mathematically they basically can't pass the class anymore. So then you might have a kid with no chance to pass a class and so the kid gives up and the kid/teacher/class are stuck in this no win situation for weeks or months.If 50 is the lowest grade, it still leaves the opportunity for kids to recover from a disastrous assessment/project.

Eta: nevermind, this system is different, but I don't think the article is totally accurate. It sounds like it's describing two different things. The people they are interviewing may not be fully aware of how this is supposed to work.

 
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Why can't an 83 just be an 83? Why does it have to be a B? Why can't a 95 just be a 95? Why does it have to be an A? We can't a 49 just be a 49? Why does it have to be an F? And if we have to use letters (for whatever reason), why do we only use 5 letters? What's wrong with the other 21 letters?

And while I'm ranting, WTF do we teach kids to take work home for 10+ years of their life, and then when they get married they have to unlearn that habit to save their marriage and family? Leave work at school so they leave work at work when they're married and have families. #F###Homework

 
Eventually these kids will stop being coddled and they will be in for a rude awakening when reality sets in.

It will be a head scratcher when "A" students score well below average on standardized testing and entrance exams.

 
May as well surrender to Asia right now. This country has no chance. Buncha blouses.

 
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:lmao: So all you have to do is enroll, then never show up, and they give you a C? :lmao: :lmao:

Theoretically a kid could enroll on the first day of kindergarten, never go to school a day in his life, and pass with C's all the way through high school graduation. Love it :lmao:
Official Scool of Brawndo!

 
Everyone should get an A for participating. Wrong is an old concept which just serves as a discriminating factor. All people deserve to be treated equally as winners. This type of bigotry of dividing people into classes has to stop.

 
Why can't an 83 just be an 83? Why does it have to be a B? Why can't a 95 just be a 95? Why does it have to be an A? We can't a 49 just be a 49? Why does it have to be an F? And if we have to use letters (for whatever reason), why do we only use 5 letters? What's wrong with the other 21 letters?
I would go the other way with it. The numerical grading scale is basically worthless. A 60 in one class (as in Ivan's statistics class example above) might be way more difficult to obtain than 100 in another class or even another assignment in the same class. However it is pretty easy as a teacher to identify "A level" work.

 
Some teachers have tried to hang on to the traditional grading system but have been tripped up by a blanket new policy that students, even if they do not hand in homework or take a test, get 50 percent. Under the new rule, its possible for a student who skips a test to receive a better grade than a student who takes the test and does poorly.

...

Lowery, who has tried to retain the traditional grading system, said he has a student who early in the semester had a grade in the 80s range and another in the 25 percent range, but then stopped coming to class. Because his missed assignments all received a 50 percent, the student has a 49 percent average, instead of the 3 percent average he would have under the previous grading system, Lowery said.

...

And parents are confused as to why scores around 50 percent are getting Cs and above.
:lmao: So all you have to do is enroll, then never show up, and they give you a C? :lmao: :lmao:

Theoretically a kid could enroll on the first day of kindergarten, never go to school a day in his life, and pass with C's all the way through high school graduation. Love it :lmao:
Maybe I am wrong, but this system (which I have heard of before, but never heard of it in practice) doesn't make a 50% a C. It just makes the lowest grade possible a 50. So if a kid doesn't take a test or do a project, the lowest grade possible is a 50. The idea is that in the traditional system, if a kid gets a zero on a test because they never took it or scored a 25% because they just didn't get that concept, then mathematically they basically can't pass the class anymore. So then you might have a kid with no chance to pass a class and so the kid gives up and the kid/teacher/class are stuck in this no win situation for weeks or months.If 50 is the lowest grade, it still leaves the opportunity for kids to recover from a disastrous assessment/project.
And this is another stupid idea as well. You don't do something you get a zero. Why reward them with a 50.

 
the only true issue here is the 50 for not taking the test.

We already have this type of grading with the ACT, LSAT and other tests. IIRC, with the ACT, a 100% score would be a 36. 80% or a 29, is still considered very good or similar to an A. Similar with the LSAT - 180 might be 100%, but a score of 170 is still in the elite. (although perhaps a 144 isn't quite "A" range).

If you're going to have this type of grading, make the tests harder.

 
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Why even send kids to school anymore? Just give them a college degree when they turn 8 and speed this process up. It'll save money and time. Plus, our country will have the most college graduates of any country in the world, making us the smartest country. With all of these smart people and excess money and time, just think what we can accomplish!

 
TheIronSheik said:
Why even send kids to school anymore? Just give them a college degree when they turn 8 and speed this process up. It'll save money and time. Plus, our country will have the most college graduates of any country in the world, making us the smartest country. With all of these smart people and excess money and time, just think what we can accomplish!
It's the fair thing to do.
 
TheIronSheik said:
Why even send kids to school anymore? Just give them a college degree when they turn 8 and speed this process up. It'll save money and time. Plus, our country will have the most college graduates of any country in the world, making us the smartest country. With all of these smart people and excess money and time, just think what we can accomplish!
my 2nd grade son's teacher said he reads at a 4th grade level. Problem IMO is 4th graders are dumb. I'm not sure what these grade levels mean anymore.

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
Geez. My daughter gets 50% for correct science homework missing her name (I just dealt with this last week).

Great school and teacher though. They have worked on it and it hasn't happened in awhile.

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
Geez. My daughter gets 50% for correct science homework missing her name (I just dealt with this last week).

Great school and teacher though. They have worked on it and it hasn't happened in awhile.
how did you deal with it?

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF
The last part is very common. Mastery learning. The idea is kids should be abld to redo assignments or retake tests until they show they have learned the material. I don't have a problem with it if is implemented properly.
 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
Geez. My daughter gets 50% for correct science homework missing her name (I just dealt with this last week).Great school and teacher though. They have worked on it and it hasn't happened in awhile.
You mean if she completes the homework and what would otherwise be an A is scored as 50% if her name was missing from it?If so, I had more than a few teachers like this in high school and I recall they were the absolute best, most difficult classes.

 
I was reading this C.S Lewis book the other day and he had a pretty good quote that I feel applies here perfectly.

He said, "the laziest boy in the class is the one who ends up working hardest in the end."

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF
The last part is very common. Mastery learning. The idea is kids should be abld to redo assignments or retake tests until they show they have learned the material. I don't have a problem with it if is implemented properly.
I agree to a certain extent. I take late work even if it is VERY late. I tell the kids that I give assignments because I want to them to learn the material...not to give them a grade or kill time.

As far as tests are concerned...they are just one of the ways I assess their learning. I don't typically weigh my tests very much in relation to the overall grade. But I don't allow retakes. It might be a lofty goal but I'm trying to get them to understand that later on in life there will be tests that (fair or not) can impact their lives. They need to learn to prepare for them.

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF
The last part is very common. Mastery learning. The idea is kids should be abld to redo assignments or retake tests until they show they have learned the material. I don't have a problem with it if is implemented properly.
I agree to a certain extent. I take late work even if it is VERY late. I tell the kids that I give assignments because I want to them to learn the material...not to give them a grade or kill time. As far as tests are concerned...they are just one of the ways I assess their learning. I don't typically weigh my tests very much in relation to the overall grade. But I don't allow retakes. It might be a lofty goal but I'm trying to get them to understand that later on in life there will be tests that (fair or not) can impact their lives. They need to learn to prepare for them.
We have to make tests 75% of the their final grade so we really have to give them more opportunities to take it. However, most teachers make the kids do corrections or some kind of assignment first. Otherwise a lot of the kids just take it again and do worse. You have to have a procedure in place or it turns into a big time waste.
 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF
The last part is very common. Mastery learning. The idea is kids should be abld to redo assignments or retake tests until they show they have learned the material. I don't have a problem with it if is implemented properly.
I agree to a certain extent. I take late work even if it is VERY late. I tell the kids that I give assignments because I want to them to learn the material...not to give them a grade or kill time. As far as tests are concerned...they are just one of the ways I assess their learning. I don't typically weigh my tests very much in relation to the overall grade. But I don't allow retakes. It might be a lofty goal but I'm trying to get them to understand that later on in life there will be tests that (fair or not) can impact their lives. They need to learn to prepare for them.
We have to make tests 75% of the their final grade so we really have to give them more opportunities to take it. However, most teachers make the kids do corrections or some kind of assignment first. Otherwise a lot of the kids just take it again and do worse. You have to have a procedure in place or it turns into a big time waste.
75 seems high.

 
My wife teaches 7th grade science.

Students get a 50% on assignments that aren't even turned in....if they actually do their homework, they are able to retake/redo it as many times as they want until they aquire the grade they desire

Testing is the same. Huge waste of her/students time.
WTF
The last part is very common. Mastery learning. The idea is kids should be abld to redo assignments or retake tests until they show they have learned the material. I don't have a problem with it if is implemented properly.
I agree to a certain extent. I take late work even if it is VERY late. I tell the kids that I give assignments because I want to them to learn the material...not to give them a grade or kill time. As far as tests are concerned...they are just one of the ways I assess their learning. I don't typically weigh my tests very much in relation to the overall grade. But I don't allow retakes. It might be a lofty goal but I'm trying to get them to understand that later on in life there will be tests that (fair or not) can impact their lives. They need to learn to prepare for them.
We have to make tests 75% of the their final grade so we really have to give them more opportunities to take it. However, most teachers make the kids do corrections or some kind of assignment first. Otherwise a lot of the kids just take it again and do worse. You have to have a procedure in place or it turns into a big time waste.
75 seems high.
I agree. Especially considering we are a working class school with lots of kids living in poverty. Parents don't always like it, but our administration believes a grade should be a reflection of learning and not effort. I agree, but I think 75 might be a bit much.It's especially tough on my students receiving special ed.

 
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