Schottenheimer staying on (1 Viewer)

[jeter23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2734129

SAN DIEGO, Calif. -- Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer, who absorbed his sixth consecutive playoff loss Sunday following an NFL-best 14-2 regular season, will return to the team for the 2007 season.

"I have decided that Marty Schottenheimer is the best person to lead the Chargers in the 2007 season," Dean Spanos, Chargers president and CEO, said in a statement Wednesday.

The Patriots rallied from an eight-point deficit in the fourth quarter to beat the Chargers 24-21 on Sunday, San Diego's only loss at home this season.

Schottenheimer had a year left on his contract, at more than $3 million, but received a one-year contract extension Wednesday through 2008, as did his entire staff.

"We are all bitterly disappointed how this season ended, but we can't allow our disappointment to cloud the achievements of our franchise over the past few years," Spanos said. "Now it is time to put this issue behind us and move forward together."

 

[DaveGrumbles]

Heard on LA radio that he actually turned down the 2008 extension. Sounds like a fun season coming up for the Chargers.

 

[trader jake]

Before this turns into a good decision vs. bashing Martyball thread I have a question...

Why do teams feel the need to extend a coach who was/is clearly on the hot seat? The Giants did it with Coughlin and now the Chargers are doing it with Schottenheimer. I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will?

If Coughlin or Schottenheimer get off to a rough start and/or flame out in the playoffs again they will be fired. The players know this and will get the job done or won't...it has nothing to do with a perception of power based on contract status with these guys, but now the team is on the hook for big chunks of money.

Whatever agent started this crap or the agents that get more cash for their coaching clients are getting their job done. I say let a coach lead the team in the final year of his contract and see what happens.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

He was 14-3 this year. It would be insane to fire him. Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Only because they don't have a replacement lined up.

 

[Gatorman]

Before this turns into a good decision vs. bashing Martyball thread I have a question...Why do teams feel the need to extend a coach who was/is clearly on the hot seat? The Giants did it with Coughlin and now the Chargers are doing it with Schottenheimer. I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will? If Coughlin or Schottenheimer get off to a rough start and/or flame out in the playoffs again they will be fired. The players know this and will get the job done or won't...it has nothing to do with a perception of power based on contract status with these guys, but now the team is on the hook for big chunks of money.Whatever agent started this crap or the agents that get more cash for their coaching clients are getting their job done. I say let a coach lead the team in the final year of his contract and see what happens.

A lot of this has to do with getting assistants to stay on. If it is perceived as a sinking ship a lot of them will look elsewhere.

 

[diesel7982]

Only because they don't have a replacement lined up.

 

[jeter23]

Heard on LA radio that he actually turned down the 2008 extension. Sounds like a fun season coming up for the Chargers.

I have seen this reported as well. Not sure which is true though. I doubt it matters. My guess is if they don't win the SB next year, he's gone.

 

[trader jake]

Before this turns into a good decision vs. bashing Martyball thread I have a question...Why do teams feel the need to extend a coach who was/is clearly on the hot seat? The Giants did it with Coughlin and now the Chargers are doing it with Schottenheimer. I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will? If Coughlin or Schottenheimer get off to a rough start and/or flame out in the playoffs again they will be fired. The players know this and will get the job done or won't...it has nothing to do with a perception of power based on contract status with these guys, but now the team is on the hook for big chunks of money.Whatever agent started this crap or the agents that get more cash for their coaching clients are getting their job done. I say let a coach lead the team in the final year of his contract and see what happens.

A lot of this has to do with getting assistants to stay on. If it is perceived as a sinking ship a lot of them will look elsewhere.

Don't the top assistant coaches usually sign contracts for the same length as the head coach? What about the positional coaches? I'm not disagreeing...I'm not sure I entirely understand Gatorman.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Only because they don't have a replacement lined up.

They didn't fire him because he is a good coach.

 

[Gatorman]

Before this turns into a good decision vs. bashing Martyball thread I have a question...Why do teams feel the need to extend a coach who was/is clearly on the hot seat? The Giants did it with Coughlin and now the Chargers are doing it with Schottenheimer. I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will? If Coughlin or Schottenheimer get off to a rough start and/or flame out in the playoffs again they will be fired. The players know this and will get the job done or won't...it has nothing to do with a perception of power based on contract status with these guys, but now the team is on the hook for big chunks of money.Whatever agent started this crap or the agents that get more cash for their coaching clients are getting their job done. I say let a coach lead the team in the final year of his contract and see what happens.

A lot of this has to do with getting assistants to stay on. If it is perceived as a sinking ship a lot of them will look elsewhere.

Don't the top assistant coaches usually sign contracts for the same length as the head coach? What about the positional coaches? I'm not disagreeing...I'm not sure I entirely understand Gatorman.

I remember with Miami back in the shula days that there was a question about shula being a lame duck and it being hard for him to bring in assistants since the next coach could "clean house" Since then I have noticed that few up and coming coaches will come to a program that has this type of situation. You give the extension to keep stability and keep those coaches who are up from jumping ship. May not be specific to this case, but I have seen it before.

 

[bostonfred]

He was 14-3 this year. It would be insane to fire him. Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

What bad decisions did he make in the fourth quarter?

 

[BoltBacker]

I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will?

I thought the Chargers played for Marty this year and it was the last year of his contract. They didn't lose to NE because they weren't playing hard.... they just made mistakes but I don't think effort or Martys contract status had anything to do with it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

He was 14-3 this year. It would be insane to fire him. Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

What bad decisions did he make in the fourth quarter?

I thought it was really one bad decision. He should have went to Martyball with 4 minutes left and the score tied. LT gains 5-6 yards on first down and it is followed up with 2 straight passess. I also think the replay challenge was dumb.

 

[BoltBacker]

He was 14-3 this year. It would be insane to fire him. Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

What bad decisions did he make in the fourth quarter?

I thought it was really one bad decision. He should have went to Martyball with 4 minutes left and the score tied. LT gains 5-6 yards on first down and it is followed up with 2 straight passess. I also think the replay challenge was dumb.

I don't think he made the playcalls w/4min left but you are right about the replay. It was very dumb.

 

[Mediocrity]

The people who understand football did the right thing. You guys, in the mean time, can make fun of this decision.

 

[PahtyTom]

Good move. There's certainly no one better (including Pete Caroll 'sp?' ) to replace him right now.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Heard on LA radio that he actually turned down the 2008 extension.

That's what I heard. I'll change the title when I confirm . . .

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

 

[DPRugby]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Well ####. I'm calling it now, they go 10-6 and lose in the first round of the playoffs next year. I gotta find another team to root for.

 

[Trap Play]

Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

Fixed.

 

[Reaper]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Maybe Brian and Marty want to coach together in 08' since Brian backed out.

Where? Dallas?

 

[massraider]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Any word on why he turned down the extension?

 

[bostonfred]

He was 14-3 this year. It would be insane to fire him. Just don't let him make any decesions in the 4th quarter of playoff games.

What bad decisions did he make in the fourth quarter?

I thought it was really one bad decision. He should have went to Martyball with 4 minutes left and the score tied. LT gains 5-6 yards on first down and it is followed up with 2 straight passess. I also think the replay challenge was dumb.

I don't think he made the playcalls w/4min left but you are right about the replay. It was very dumb.

I don't think you can fault Marty for playing "Martyball" in the past, then fault him this year for not playing Martyball. That seems like Monday morning quarterbacking. I think the instant replay was like a timeout in basketball when the other team is making a run. You have to stop the other team's momentum. I wouldn't have had any problem with the Chargers using a timeout there to kill the momentum shift. An instant replay there gives the Chargers a slim chance at getting the ball back, and also last much longer than a timeout, which gave the Chargers a chance to regroup. I don't think either is a clear cut case of a coaching mistake. Going for it on 4th and 11 might be, but I can understand why he didn't want to give up the ball in better field position if Kaeding missed the 48 yarder, and why he didn't want to punt in that situation, either. By lining up for fourth and eleven, he also took a page out of the Parcells/Belichick playbook of lining up for fourth down just long enough to draw the opponent offside. If the Patriots flinch, Kaeding gets a much more makable field goal attempt. If they don't, the Chargers get a shot at a long pass play when the Patriots have to start a half-step slow. So while I don't think it's an indefensible choice, it's the one I can most understand second-guessing. The main reason that the Chargers lost that game is that the players made more on-the-field mistakes, including key fumbles, drops and penalties, and didn't capitalize on the Patriots' mistakes as well as the Patriots capitalized on the Chargers'. There may be an aspect of coaching there, but it seems wrong to blame Schottenheimer for failing to outcoach a guy who's generally regarded as the best coach in the league. If this had been a blowout loss, I could understand it. But it was so close between two very good teams that I don't see how you could blame him for it.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

If I'm a Charger fan I see this as the best of both worlds. The team would have been deflated and blamed themselves if the 14-3 coach they "laid it all on the field for" was fired. Deflated teams have a way of coming apart at the seams. It woulda coulda been a disaster to fire him.Marty looked like Al Davis's shuffle board partner after that loss. He must have aged 15 years in one day. He was very drained. I watched and listened to the post game press conference and said the only reason he won't retire is because the players want him back so badly. Firing him definitely would have been a mistake.

So, the team offers him 08 and everyone knows that's just to keep the press at bay during the next season. Marty realizes this and says no thanks. These guys want to win one for me. Let them know from day one it's my swan song. I'll give it my all. They give it their all. As fan you couldn't ask for a better decision.

The team stays together mentally. Marty leaves win or lose and it isn't the deflating decision it would be right now. Perfect.

 

[DaveGrumbles]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Just from the outside looking in it seems like Spanos was trying to play mediator between AJ and Marty and would ultimately like Marty to stay around and not take half the staff with him somewhere else. While AJ Smith obviously wants him gone. Marty feels the same way about AJ but is an old school guy and will finish out his contract but turned down anything beyond that because 1. he wanted to make a statement 2. he knows even without the Super Bowl another very good season puts him in line for a prime spot somewhere else. Any Charger homers know if that is pretty much the story? And if this is the case this seems like a locker room divider(or even coaching staff divider) or at the very least a major distraction. I usually ignore off the field problems and their effect on the field of play on Sundays because generally once you put on the pads all that exterior stuff usually is forgotten. But I gotta believe between all the tension behind the scenes and the way this season went down this really could affect on-field play big time.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Just from the outside looking in it seems like Spanos was trying to play mediator between AJ and Marty and would ultimately like Marty to stay around and not take half the staff with him somewhere else. While AJ Smith obviously wants him gone. Marty feels the same way about AJ but is an old school guy and will finish out his contract but turned down anything beyond that because 1. he wanted to make a statement 2. he knows even without the Super Bowl another very good season puts him in line for a prime spot somewhere else. Any Charger homers know if that is pretty much the story?

The press release says that AJ and Spanos both want Marty to stay.

 

[derek19]

Well this sucks. I was hoping he would get canned so Wade Phillips would be available for DC position with the niners. Oh well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think you can fault Marty for playing "Martyball" in the past, then fault him this year for not playing Martyball. That seems like Monday morning quarterbacking.

I was yelling at the TV as soon as they threw on second down. With 4 minutes left and the MVP of the league running at 6 yards a clip, you feed it to him until you see 3rd and long. But I'm really not trying to knock Schottenheimer too much. I think he is a good coach and bringing him back was the smart thing to do. Unfortunately he has had a lot of bad things happen to him in the playoffs and hopefully he can turn it around next year.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Just from the outside looking in it seems like Spanos was trying to play mediator between AJ and Marty and would ultimately like Marty to stay around and not take half the staff with him somewhere else. While AJ Smith obviously wants him gone. Marty feels the same way about AJ but is an old school guy and will finish out his contract but turned down anything beyond that because 1. he wanted to make a statement 2. he knows even without the Super Bowl another very good season puts him in line for a prime spot somewhere else. Any Charger homers know if that is pretty much the story?

The press release says that AJ and Spanos both want Marty to stay.

I think the one year extension was just a ploy by AJ myself, he wants Marty gone, and the coaching pool will be better next year, think Cowher.Im sure Marty wanted more than a one year extension. That extension by the way had a $1 million buyout at the clubs option. Sans a superbowl title he's as good as gone next year, I just hope Bumm's son don't get the job.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think the players spoke on this one. It really sounds like they're together in their like and support of him, and I could see things going poorly if he gets sent packing.

If there were more viable alternatives out there I think he'd be gone, but as much as I'd like a change at the top I can't really think of anyone truly available that would be an upgrade without a risk of regression.

I think he turned down the extension because he's got to be thinking about retirement at this point - I think however next year goes it will be the end of him as an HC, at least for a while. That would also be the best way to mollify the players without a mini-mutiny.

Can they win one for Marty? Can he not lose one for them? Is Cameron off to Miami? Is Lofton off to Oakland? (At this point I think losing Lofton might be an upgrade, maybe we can get a WR coach in here who can get guys to catch the ball in the postseason).

I'll tell you this, as a Charger fan they just set my expectations at making the playoffs making next season equating to a huge success. I refuse to believe they're capable of anything more until they prove otherwise even if they go 16-0 and hold every opponent scoreless in the regular season.

I want to hear from him ASAP on how he plans to correct the complete and total meltdown that happened Sunday, especially in the discipline and mental aspects of that one.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

I would bet my life that Marty turned down the extension as a statement: "I'm betting blind. All in. You don't need to pay me off, or fire me either. If my players and I don't deliver next year, I'll just leave. Period."

This is a gesture for the Spanos family more than anything else. And a chance to take away any argueing leverage AJ Smith might have had with them.

 

[Air Coryell]

I think the players spoke on this one. It really sounds like they're together in their like and support of him, and I could see things going poorly if he gets sent packing.If there were more viable alternatives out there I think he'd be gone, but as much as I'd like a change at the top I can't really think of anyone truly available that would be an upgrade without a risk of regression.I think he turned down the extension because he's got to be thinking about retirement at this point - I think however next year goes it will be the end of him as an HC, at least for a while. That would also be the best way to mollify the players without a mini-mutiny.Can they win one for Marty? Can he not lose one for them? Is Cameron off to Miami? Is Lofton off to Oakland? (At this point I think losing Lofton might be an upgrade, maybe we can get a WR coach in here who can get guys to catch the ball in the postseason).I'll tell you this, as a Charger fan they just set my expectations at making the playoffs making next season equating to a huge success. I refuse to believe they're capable of anything more until they prove otherwise even if they go 16-0 and hold every opponent scoreless in the regular season.I want to hear from him ASAP on how he plans to correct the complete and total meltdown that happened Sunday, especially in the discipline and mental aspects of that one.

I have to believe that the expectation is winning the superbowl or he's gone. There is just too much talent on the team to settle for just getting to the postseason. I'd even view an AFC championship as a disapointment next year. It's too hard to build a team that can compete each and every year to waste opportunities like this.

 

[derek19]

This may be a dumb, stupid and ######ed question but OH WELL... Not the first time i asked a stupid question.........

Could marty's coaching staff sign an extension without marty signing one? If not, why would any of them stay??? Why would someone like Wade Phillips stay knowing he's not going to be there the year after since Marty declined the extension?

Maybe a dumb question but I'm just curious.

 

[Tau837]

This may be a dumb, stupid and ######ed question but OH WELL... Not the first time i asked a stupid question.........Could marty's coaching staff sign an extension without marty signing one? If not, why would any of them stay??? Why would someone like Wade Phillips stay knowing he's not going to be there the year after since Marty declined the extension? Maybe a dumb question but I'm just curious.

They are under contract. If Wade Phillips resigned, San Diego could prevent him from coaching for someone else in 2007 (and longer if his contract goes longer, but I assume the assistants' contracts are for the same years as Marty's). A team who wanted Phillips could presumably negotiate compensation, like draft picks, in order for San Diego to release him from his contract... but it's not just Wade Phillips' decision.As for an extension, I assume they could sign an extension beyond Marty's, but the team would be unlikely to do that since it is possible Marty won't be back and a new coach wants to bring in his own staff.At least, that's what I think the deal is.

 

[MSULions]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

Any word on why he turned down the extension?

on ESPN Radio tonight they were saying that he had asked for a 4 yr extension, and felt the 1 year extension was kind of a slap...so he turned it down.

 

[Da Guru]

Marty would be a highly sought after coach if he leaves the Chargers.

 

[komments]

The extension had a $1M buyout. This for a $4.5M contract. That, in a nutshell, is why Schottenheimer turned the extension down. His assistants are either being offered a one-year extension or are seeking work elsewhere.

Bottom line is that Marty has coached this team from the depths to the heights and has done so with a lousy relationship with his GM.

Think the Chargers wouldn't have been better with Brees at QB this year? AJ Smith has been a good GM but his relationship, or lack thereof, with his head coach is poisonous for this team.

With the success Schottenheimer had this year he should have gotten a 4-year plus extension. Even Coughlin, who struggled and was reported to have "lost his team" got a full buyout option with his contract. If Coughlin gets fired next year, he still gets the full salary owed him in 2008. Marty would not have. I think the way the extension was offered was designed to have Schottenheimer quit, or at worst, turn it down.

But watch this team - this is my prediction - the day Schottenheimer leaves, the Chargers drop. The replacement coach will be worse for this team than Marty was.

BTW, those who blame Schottenheimer for the loss - what happens if McCree knocks the ball down instead of intercepting it? It was on fourth down. Chargers get the ball in better field position than they would have with his INT return. Today's players are too often just stupid when it comes to the game.

And though a 54-yard attempt IS a long shot, it is still makable by many of today's NFL kickers. Marty didn't blow the kick. I'm not a big fan of Marty, but LT did set an NFL record for TDs under him. And he did take the Chargers to a 14-2 regular season with a first year starter at QB. Every coach makes mistakes throughout a game. But don't overlook the fact that he got them there in the first place.

San Diego would be better off without AJ Smith than they ever will be without Schottenheimer.

 

[cstu]

Marty turned down the one-year extension that was offered.

LINK

So he is still signed only through 2007.

If I'm a Charger fan I see this as the best of both worlds. The team would have been deflated and blamed themselves if the 14-3 coach they "laid it all on the field for" was fired. Deflated teams have a way of coming apart at the seams. It woulda coulda been a disaster to fire him.Marty looked like Al Davis's shuffle board partner after that loss. He must have aged 15 years in one day. He was very drained. I watched and listened to the post game press conference and said the only reason he won't retire is because the players want him back so badly. Firing him definitely would have been a mistake.

So, the team offers him 08 and everyone knows that's just to keep the press at bay during the next season. Marty realizes this and says no thanks. These guys want to win one for me. Let them know from day one it's my swan song. I'll give it my all. They give it their all. As fan you couldn't ask for a better decision.

The team stays together mentally. Marty leaves win or lose and it isn't the deflating decision it would be right now. Perfect.

Win one for the Gipper.

 

[Tau837]

The extension had a $1M buyout. This for a $4.5M contract. That, in a nutshell, is why Schottenheimer turned the extension down. His assistants are either being offered a one-year extension or are seeking work elsewhere.

Bottom line is that Marty has coached this team from the depths to the heights and has done so with a lousy relationship with his GM.

A couple of my posts about Marty from another thread:

I heard on the radio this morning that Marty's teams have now lost 6 straight playoff games and are 5-13 overall in the playoffs. Everyone is familiar with his notable disappointments in Cleveland and KC. And he is now 0-2 with San Diego, with both losses coming at home to lesser seeds.

I agree that 14-2 is great and that he has done a nice job with this team in the big picture... although it should be noted that his record with the Chargers was only 33-32 entering this season. Also, it's hard to know how much is Marty versus A.J. Smith over the past few years.

Regardless, at some point, doesn't management have to look at this dismal playoff record and weigh that heavily? Can Marty actually get them where they want to go in the postseason? If you say yes, based on what? If you say no, why keep him and potentially waste another year with this talented team? There are only so many years in their window of opportunity, and they have lost three of them without a playoff win.

My main point is that it is about more than just the one game. At what point does 5-13 and a 6 game losing streak, including 0-2 at home with San Diego, become a trend and Marty's fault?

And while I understand that players have to execute and keep their heads, I do subscribe to the theory that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of his team on gameday.

Think the Chargers wouldn't have been better with Brees at QB this year?

First of all, do you think they would have kept Rivers on as a backup? Would that have hurt chemistry? Either way, keeping both or trading Rivers, what would they have sacrificed on the roster from a cap perspective?How would Brees have made them better? Do you think they would have won 15 or 16 regular season games instead of 14? They never did that with Brees before. Do you think their offense would have been better? It was 1st in points and 7th in yardage this year, compared to 5th and 10th last year with Brees and a very similar supporting cast.

Are you implying they would have won the playoff game with Brees? Would Parker, Jackson, and Gates not have dropped his passes? Would Brees have converted 4th & 11 in the first quarter? Would he have driven them closer than Rivers did on the final drive? (Maybe on the last point.) Given the McCree fumble, the stupid penalties, the dropped passes, the muffed punt, and the idiotic challenge, among other things, are you implying that Brees would have overcome all of that where Rivers didn't?

Think AJ Smith has been a good GM but his relationship, or lack thereof, with his head coach is poisonous for this team.

With the success Schottenheimer had this year he should have gotten a 4-year plus extension. Even Coughlin, who struggled and was reported to have "lost his team" got a full buyout option with his contract. If Coughlin gets fired next year, he still gets the full salary owed him in 2008. Marty would not have. I think the way the extension was offered was designed to have Schottenheimer quit, or at worst, turn it down.

But watch this team - this is my prediction - the day Schottenheimer leaves, the Chargers drop. The replacement coach will be worse for this team than Marty was.

BTW, those who blame Schottenheimer for the loss - what happens if McCree knocks the ball down instead of intercepting it? It was on fourth down. Chargers get the ball in better field position than they would have with his INT return. Today's players are too often just stupid when it comes to the game.

And though a 54-yard attempt IS a long shot, it is still makable by many of today's NFL kickers. Marty didn't blow the kick. I'm not a big fan of Marty, but LT did set an NFL record for TDs under him. And he did take the Chargers to a 14-2 regular season with a first year starter at QB. Every coach makes mistakes throughout a game. But don't overlook the fact that he got them there in the first place.

San Diego would be better off without AJ Smith than they ever will be without Schottenheimer.

Interesting take. Smith took over as Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Chargers on April 22, 2003, 4 days before the 2003 NFL draft. He has added these players (probably an incomplete list) to the Chargers' roster since then:QB Rivers

RB Turner

RB Sproles

WR Jackson

WR Floyd

TE Manumaleuna

TE Krause

C Hardwick

G Olivea

LT McNeill

DT Castillo

DT Olshansky

DT McKinney

DE Bingham

DE Robinson

LB Merriman

LB Phillips

LB Archer

LB Dobbins

LB Harris

CB Cromartie

CB Gordon

CB Gregory

S McCree

S Jue

K Kaeding

Do you think most GMs are able to add that kind of talent to a roster over a three year period without mortgaging the future?

 

[komments]

What I really think is that Smith has done a very good job as GM but, like Marty, has made his share of mistakes. Taking Eli Manning was a mistake that could have been avoided. Trading the #1 overall would have been a much smarter move in my opinion.

I also think that Coaching had little to do with the loss this past weekend. Players make plays. Coaches put them in the position to make plays. Or they don't if they are bad coaches.

There is no doubt in my mind the Chargers were in position to make plays. Do I think the Chargers would have been better offensively with Brees than with Rivers - absolutely. I believe that Brees does make plays that Rivers does not (at this point in his career). I believe that Brees was better at getting the ball to his outside receivers than Rivers was. I believe that Gates was better with Brees than he was with Rivers.

Would he have made a difference in this game - there is no way to know. But there is no doubt that the Chargers had a great year with Rivers at QB. I think that most of the credit for that goes to Schottenheimer.

Yes, keeping Brees was almost impossible with the cap the way it is. However, making a decision on which quarterback to keep was the GMs decision and not the coaches. I think Philip Rivers is going to be a very good, and possibly great, quarterback in this league. I think at this stage in their respective careers, Brees is better. The Saints receivers are not all that great - but they were more accomplished this season with Brees than they were in prior seasons with Brooks (excepting Horn who was injured most of the year).

In short, I give Schottenheimer more credit for the success of the Chargers than you do. That's okay. I think both Schottenheimer and Smith have done very good jobs for the team and that is why Spanos wants to keep both of them. I also think that when Marty is gone, the team will not have the success they have had with him. This is a personal opinion and should not count for more than that.

You talk about Marty being 33-32 prior to this year like it is a bad thing. Let's look at the Chargers prior to Marty. Since Bobby Ross took them to the Super Bowl the Chargers have had four head coaches. Kevin Gilbride went 6-16. June Jones went 3-7. Mike Riley went 14-34. That is a combined record of 23-57 before Marty. So it is not like Marty inherited a great team. His first year he had Drew Brees, a second-year player, as a starting QB. They finished 8-8. The second year Brees regressed and was terrible. The team fell to 4-12. If I recall correctly, Tomlinson was playing with an injury at the start of this season. He was ineffective in three of the first five games - all losses. In his third year Brees led the team to a 12-4 record. He also led them to a 9-7 record the final season with the Chargers. One reason, though probably a minor one, that Brees was let go was his shoulder injury.

Looking at the history of the Chargers shows that the best transaction the Chiefs ever made was the trade of the #1 pick (Michael Vick) to the Falcons. That trade gave the Chargers, among other things, Tomlinson and Brees and allowed them to go from 1-15 to 8-8 in a single season. The first two draft picks of AJ Smith's tenure at GM were Sammy Davis and Florence Drayton, neither of whom is still with the team.

But overall, Smith HAS done a good job in the draft. He has made 34 picks in four seasons. 11 of them are now starters with the Chargers. Another 12 are still with the team in backup roles (I include Rivers as a starting draft pick even though he wasn't actually picked by Smith). Those are very good numbers.

I just think things would be better for all concerned if Smith and Schottenheimer could get along better than they do. Both are very good at their jobs and both could do a better job of showing respect to the other guy.

 

[UCLAGIE]

What I really think is that Smith has done a very good job as GM but, like Marty, has made his share of mistakes. Taking Eli Manning was a mistake that could have been avoided. Trading the #1 overall would have been a much smarter move in my opinion.

I also think that Coaching had little to do with the loss this past weekend. Players make plays. Coaches put them in the position to make plays. Or they don't if they are bad coaches.

There is no doubt in my mind the Chargers were in position to make plays. Do I think the Chargers would have been better offensively with Brees than with Rivers - absolutely. I believe that Brees does make plays that Rivers does not (at this point in his career). I believe that Brees was better at getting the ball to his outside receivers than Rivers was. I believe that Gates was better with Brees than he was with Rivers.

Would he have made a difference in this game - there is no way to know. But there is no doubt that the Chargers had a great year with Rivers at QB. I think that most of the credit for that goes to Schottenheimer.

Yes, keeping Brees was almost impossible with the cap the way it is. However, making a decision on which quarterback to keep was the GMs decision and not the coaches. I think Philip Rivers is going to be a very good, and possibly great, quarterback in this league. I think at this stage in their respective careers, Brees is better. The Saints receivers are not all that great - but they were more accomplished this season with Brees than they were in prior seasons with Brooks (excepting Horn who was injured most of the year).

In short, I give Schottenheimer more credit for the success of the Chargers than you do. That's okay. I think both Schottenheimer and Smith have done very good jobs for the team and that is why Spanos wants to keep both of them. I also think that when Marty is gone, the team will not have the success they have had with him. This is a personal opinion and should not count for more than that.

You talk about Marty being 33-32 prior to this year like it is a bad thing. Let's look at the Chargers prior to Marty. Since Bobby Ross took them to the Super Bowl the Chargers have had four head coaches. Kevin Gilbride went 6-16. June Jones went 3-7. Mike Riley went 14-34. That is a combined record of 23-57 before Marty. So it is not like Marty inherited a great team. His first year he had Drew Brees, a second-year player, as a starting QB. They finished 8-8. The second year Brees regressed and was terrible. The team fell to 4-12. If I recall correctly, Tomlinson was playing with an injury at the start of this season. He was ineffective in three of the first five games - all losses. In his third year Brees led the team to a 12-4 record. He also led them to a 9-7 record the final season with the Chargers. One reason, though probably a minor one, that Brees was let go was his shoulder injury.

Looking at the history of the Chargers shows that the best transaction the Chiefs ever made was the trade of the #1 pick (Michael Vick) to the Falcons. That trade gave the Chargers, among other things, Tomlinson and Brees and allowed them to go from 1-15 to 8-8 in a single season. The first two draft picks of AJ Smith's tenure at GM were Sammy Davis and Florence Drayton, neither of whom is still with the team.

But overall, Smith HAS done a good job in the draft. He has made 34 picks in four seasons. 11 of them are now starters with the Chargers. Another 12 are still with the team in backup roles (I include Rivers as a starting draft pick even though he wasn't actually picked by Smith). Those are very good numbers.

I just think things would be better for all concerned if Smith and Schottenheimer could get along better than they do. Both are very good at their jobs and both could do a better job of showing respect to the other guy.

You're a senior writer for a football website?I bolded the stuff that was factually completely wrong that I know off the top of my head.

Essentially they did trade the #1 pick (Eli Manning) for Rivers, Merriman, Kaeding and Oden

and Drayton Florence is a starting CB

 

[Tau837]

What I really think is that Smith has done a very good job as GM but, like Marty, has made his share of mistakes. Taking Eli Manning was a mistake that could have been avoided. Trading the #1 overall would have been a much smarter move in my opinion.

You think taking Eli and trading him for Rivers and draft picks that became Merriman, Kaeding, and Oben was a mistake? If they traded the pick beforehand, you think they would have gotten more out of it? I could not disagree more.

I also think that Coaching had little to do with the loss this past weekend. Players make plays. Coaches put them in the position to make plays. Or they don't if they are bad coaches.

See one of my quoted posts above. IMO it is about the big picture, not just the game last week. Marty's teams have performed dismally in the playoffs and have lost 6 straight. Suppose he went 14-2 for the next 5 seasons, and his teams lost their home playoff game every year. At what point does playoff success, or lack thereof, override regular season success?The simple fact is that the team is good enough to make the playoffs every year for a while now, barring injury. Marty deserves credit for coaching the team to this point. But knowing they are good enough to make the playoffs, shouldn't the focus become on winning in the playoffs, not just getting there? And if you look at Marty's history of winning in the playoffs, it is awful.

Yes, keeping Brees was almost impossible with the cap the way it is. However, making a decision on which quarterback to keep was the GMs decision and not the coaches. I think Philip Rivers is going to be a very good, and possibly great, quarterback in this league. I think at this stage in their respective careers, Brees is better. The Saints receivers are not all that great - but they were more accomplished this season with Brees than they were in prior seasons with Brooks (excepting Horn who was injured most of the year).

You agree that keeping Brees was "almost impossible" yet criticize Smith for not doing exactly that. And on top of the cap implications, keeping Brees meant spending big money on him without knowing exactly how he would come back from his injury. That means if they kept him, they almost certainly would have also kept Rivers. So the situation would have been worse from a cap standpoint, and they would have had an unhappy QB on the team.As for the Saints receivers being more accomplished this season, while Brees deserves credit, I also think credit goes to:1. Reggie Bush for occupying attention (and catching 91 passes!)2. Sean Payton for his and his staff's coaching and playcalling (funny that you credit Schottenheimer more than Rivers for the Chargers offensive success but seem to give Brees sole credit for the Saints offensive success).3. The running game. McAllister had his best season. (This is probably partly reflective of 1 and 2.)4. ColstonThe fact is that the Chargers offense was better this year than last year when Brees was the QB, with largely the same cast. McNeill was obviously a huge addition and deserves plenty of credit. But Rivers deserves plenty of credit as well. Here is a relevant post:

In 2005, Brees had a YPA of 7.2, a passer rating of 89.2, a completion percentage of 64.4%, and a TD-INT ratio of 24-15. I think Rivers 2006 will outperform Brees 2005 in at least three of those categories.

Final results:7.37, 92.0, 61.7, 22-9.

In short, I give Schottenheimer more credit for the success of the Chargers than you do. That's okay. I think both Schottenheimer and Smith have done very good jobs for the team and that is why Spanos wants to keep both of them. I also think that when Marty is gone, the team will not have the success they have had with him. This is a personal opinion and should not count for more than that.You talk about Marty being 33-32 prior to this year like it is a bad thing. Let's look at the Chargers prior to Marty. Since Bobby Ross took them to the Super Bowl the Chargers have had four head coaches. Kevin Gilbride went 6-16. June Jones went 3-7. Mike Riley went 14-34. That is a combined record of 23-57 before Marty. So it is not like Marty inherited a great team. His first year he had Drew Brees, a second-year player, as a starting QB. They finished 8-8. The second year Brees regressed and was terrible. The team fell to 4-12. If I recall correctly, Tomlinson was playing with an injury at the start of this season. He was ineffective in three of the first five games - all losses. In his third year Brees led the team to a 12-4 record. He also led them to a 9-7 record the final season with the Chargers. One reason, though probably a minor one, that Brees was let go was his shoulder injury.Looking at the history of the Chargers shows that the best transaction the Chiefs ever made was the trade of the #1 pick (Michael Vick) to the Falcons. That trade gave the Chargers, among other things, Tomlinson and Brees and allowed them to go from 1-15 to 8-8 in a single season. The first two draft picks of AJ Smith's tenure at GM were Sammy Davis and Florence Drayton, neither of whom is still with the team.But overall, Smith HAS done a good job in the draft. He has made 34 picks in four seasons. 11 of them are now starters with the Chargers. Another 12 are still with the team in backup roles (I include Rivers as a starting draft pick even though he wasn't actually picked by Smith). Those are very good numbers. I just think things would be better for all concerned if Smith and Schottenheimer could get along better than they do. Both are very good at their jobs and both could do a better job of showing respect to the other guy.

Most of this I agree with, except the obvious misstatement about Drayton, a starting CB. I agree it would be better if Marty and A.J. got along. And I give Marty credit for the team's success under him. I just think at some point it becomes a bottom line decision about winning in the playoffs.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The fact is that the Chargers offense was better this year than last year when Brees was the QB, with largely the same cast. McNeill was obviously a huge addition and deserves plenty of credit. But Rivers deserves plenty of credit as well.

I think overall line health this year, plus McNeil, really contributed to the dominate running ot LT. in '05 the line had tons of injuries. Plus the '05 schedule was alot tougher.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Before this turns into a good decision vs. bashing Martyball thread I have a question...Why do teams feel the need to extend a coach who was/is clearly on the hot seat? The Giants did it with Coughlin and now the Chargers are doing it with Schottenheimer. I've read that players won't play for coaches in the last year of their contract. So if a team gives a coach an extension they will? If Coughlin or Schottenheimer get off to a rough start and/or flame out in the playoffs again they will be fired. The players know this and will get the job done or won't...it has nothing to do with a perception of power based on contract status with these guys, but now the team is on the hook for big chunks of money.Whatever agent started this crap or the agents that get more cash for their coaching clients are getting their job done. I say let a coach lead the team in the final year of his contract and see what happens.

A lot of this has to do with getting assistants to stay on. If it is perceived as a sinking ship a lot of them will look elsewhere.

Don't the top assistant coaches usually sign contracts for the same length as the head coach? What about the positional coaches? :X I'm not disagreeing...I'm not sure I entirely understand Gatorman.

I remember with Miami back in the shula days that there was a question about shula being a lame duck and it being hard for him to bring in assistants since the next coach could "clean house" Since then I have noticed that few up and coming coaches will come to a program that has this type of situation. You give the extension to keep stability and keep those coaches who are up from jumping ship. May not be specific to this case, but I have seen it before.

This is only logical if the coach is still "wanted". Everybody knows that if the giants go 4-12 Coughlin is gone, so why pretend that the extension makes it seem any more stable? If a coach was up and coming and took a 1-15 team to 6-10 then to 9-7, then 13-3 and the next year was his last year, then it makes sense to extend him so his name is not in the hopper for other jobs and it isnt a distraction. In coughlin's case it is just a worthless show, that will likely cost the team some money. He is still on the hot seat and has no security and everybody knows it.

 

[AB in DC]

Re: declining the extension.

Why is this a question? With all the issues with the GM, there's no way that Schottenheimer actually wants to work there if he has a choice. But a contract is a contract. He's going to fulfill the contract but he'd much rather coach somewhere else.

Think about it. He knows he can't just up and quit, since he'd have to sit out a whole year without pay, and that would affect his ability to get a new coaching job in 2008. So he's stuck there for one more year. Why would he want to stay any longer given the situation with AJ Smith and Spanos?

In fact, I'd bet that he's deliberately made the situation worse, hoping to back Spanos into a "it's either AJ or me" choice. Talk about win-win: either he gets fired, in which case he could choose between another coaching job or just sitting at home earning a paycheck; or he gets his nemesis out of the way, and then he'd probably want to stay.

But if I were in that situation, staying at the job longer than I had to, with Smith and Spanos at their current positions, would be a non-starter.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

San Diego would be better off without AJ Smith than they ever will be without Schottenheimer.

Hi Greg. I'm of the opposite opinion. I think the coaching staff did a very good job this year, and as head coach, Marty obviously should get some of the credit. But how much? My impression is that he has very little to do with the Xs and Os. It's Cam Cameron's offense and Wade Phillips' defense. Marty gives press conferences and pep talks, but IMO losing either of the coordinators (which may well happen) would be a bigger blow than losing Marty.And AJ Smith has done an absolutely amazing job assembling talent.Also, the offense was better this year than it was in 2005, and part of that was the upgrade at QB. Rivers 2006 outperformed Brees 2005 by pretty much every important measure -- yards per attempt, TD-INT ratio, passer rating, wins, etc. You talk about Brees making plays that Rivers didn't, but I saw the opposite this year. I'm a big fan of Drew Brees and now that the Chargers are out of it, I'm a Saints fan for the rest of this year because of Brees. But Rivers was much better against the blitz and much better with the deep ball this year than Brees had ever been as a Charger, and I can't think of anything in particular that Brees was better at. (Feel free to give some examples if you saw things that I didn't.)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The fact is that the Chargers offense was better this year than last year when Brees was the QB, with largely the same cast. McNeill was obviously a huge addition and deserves plenty of credit. But Rivers deserves plenty of credit as well.

I think overall line health this year, plus McNeil, really contributed to the dominate running ot LT. in '05 the line had tons of injuries. Plus the '05 schedule was alot tougher.

All of this is true, plus LT's health was better this year as well. It's hard to separate out all the reasons why the '06 team was better than the '05 team. But one of the reasons was the QB play, IMO.

 

[komments]

Taking Eli Manning was a mistake that could have been avoided. Trading the #1 overall would have been a much smarter move in my opinion.

neither of whom is still with the team.

You're a senior writer for a football website?I bolded the stuff that was factually completely wrong that I know off the top of my head.

Essentially they did trade the #1 pick (Eli Manning) for Rivers, Merriman, Kaeding and Oden

and Drayton Florence is a starting CB

Yes I am a senior writer for a website. I messed up on Florence - sorry about that. Don't know how I missed it because it was clear as day on the Roster and Depth Chart pages. I know they traded Manning and I know they got Rivers Kaeding and Oden for him - wasn't sure Merriman was the other guy because they had two first round picks in the 2005 draft. But my point remains that Smith has made mistakes but overall has been very good. Just as Schottenheimer has been very good for the Chargers. Remember, prior to Schottenheimer and Butler the Chargers basically stunk. In fact they were coming off a 1-15 season when Schottenheimer got canned by the Redskins. To go 8-8 after that season was significant in my opinion. Of his five seasons, Schottenheimer has led the team to 8 wins or more in four of them (8-8, 12-4, 9-7 and 14-2). He has led them to the playoffs in two of them. Yes they have lost both playoff games but he got them there - something no one since Bobby Ross had managed to do.

 

[Gr00vus]

But my point remains that Smith has made mistakes but overall has been very good

The only real mistake I think AJ has made so far is extending Jammer's contract. Other than that he's done an incredible job and has been the best GM in the NFL since he took over. It's really that simple, all the facts support that conclusion. I don't think you have a very good read on the Chargers' situation here.