Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (1 Viewer)

[Slapdash]

Ahh! Civility!

Wisconsin Education Association Council has provided a list on their website of the home addresses for all legislators set to vote on the Governors plan.

Liberals, this is what your side does and one of the reasons we dislike you so much.Preach tolerance and civility, but promote something else altogether when things don't go your way.

 

[The Kerminator]

Ahh! Civility!

Wisconsin Education Association Council has provided a list on their website of the home addresses for all legislators set to vote on the Governors plan.

Liberals, this is what your side does and one of the reasons we dislike you so much.Preach tolerance and civility, but promote something else altogether when things don't go your way.

Another instance:Scott Walker in the crosshairs

 

[The Kerminator]

Should be an interesting day in Madison as Walker supporters are going to show up. Expected crowds are to be between 80,000 to 100,000.

 

[Limp Ditka]

But the worst people in this whole drama are the Democrats in the State legislature. Their decision to disappear and go to other states is the most dangerous, anti-democratic aspect of this entire affair. How dare they do such a thing? It's terrible.

Efforts underway to recall & remove from office absent Democrats

Well, IMO that's going too far. I don't think they should be recalled or removed or put in jail. It's not at that level, IMO. But they really have a duty to return.

I'm not sure how their personal finances / per diem work, but if any of these guys expense anything on their 'hiatus' as a work expense, they should be flogged in front of the capitol building.

 

[4 - Digit Shark]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

 

[Statorama]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Teachers should not be making a total of $100,000 in compensation...and I come from a family of educators.

I don't agree with this. If you're good at what you do, like in the private sector, you should make better wages.

We all know many many unqualified people who make great coin because of personal relationships and nepotism. Don't act like you move up in the world only because you are good at what you do.

Did you just drop into the discussion to see your name?I'm not acting any way like that, of course people move up because they "know" people, but 90% of people earn their positions, and the better you are, the more likely you are to move up.

 

[Statorama]

If you need to boil this down for people that want to know the skinny on this situation, just say that the state of Wisconsin is asking their union workers to be treated just like "we" are at work.

They were given the ability to negotiate things they never should have been given the ability to. The milk and honey days are over. It's time union members learned what it's like to work in the real world.

 

[Mr.Pack]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Thanks for your input.Now carry on your Conservative hate elsewhere.

 

[Thunderlips]

Ahh! Civility!

Wisconsin Education Association Council has provided a list on their website of the home addresses for all legislators set to vote on the Governors plan.

Liberals, this is what your side does and one of the reasons we dislike you so much.Preach tolerance and civility, but promote something else altogether when things don't go your way.

Another instance:Scott Walker in the crosshairs

More than likely, that's a Conservative trying to drum up negative opinion on the rallies.

 

[Eric Stratton]

Ahh! Civility!

Wisconsin Education Association Council has provided a list on their website of the home addresses for all legislators set to vote on the Governors plan.

Liberals, this is what your side does and one of the reasons we dislike you so much.Preach tolerance and civility, but promote something else altogether when things don't go your way.

Another instance:Scott Walker in the crosshairs

More than likely, that's a Conservative trying to drum up negative opinion on the rallies.

 

[Sarnoff]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

 

[Jackstraw]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

Check the numbers. If there's a class war on (and there is) the poor certainly aren;t winning. I would love to see a link backing up the last statement.

 

[HellToupee]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

Check the numbers. If there's a class war on (and there is) the poor certainly aren;t winning. I would love to see a link backing up the last statement.

the middle is taking a beating as well

 

[Mark Davis]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

I think that's called an annual review from my experience in the private sector. As a shareholder you have voting rights to change the board of directors who through a chain of command determine how that is done. So yes, you have a representative doing just that.

 

[Sabertooth]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

No kidding.

 

[Mark Davis]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

I think that's called an annual review from my experience in the private sector. As a shareholder you have voting rights to change the board of directors who through a chain of command determine how that is done. So yes, you have a representative doing just that.

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Well that depends on if you're active or passive. I never once saw a shareholder of a company I worked with refused access to see any facility. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say otherwise. In the case of a shareholder, he can sell his shares if he's unable to exact the changes he seeks. As taxpayers, we don't have that right so you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Thunderlips]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

Check the numbers. If there's a class war on (and there is) the poor certainly aren;t winning. I would love to see a link backing up the last statement.

It's amazing that people don't understand this.

 

[Sabertooth]

Teachers should not be making a total of $100,000 in compensation...and I come from a family of educators.

I don't agree with this. If you're good at what you do, like in the private sector, you should make better wages.

We all know many many unqualified people who make great coin because of personal relationships and nepotism. Don't act like you move up in the world only because you are good at what you do.

Did you just drop into the discussion to see your name?I'm not acting any way like that, of course people move up because they "know" people, but 90% of people earn their positions, and the better you are, the more likely you are to move up.

I'm not at all convinced of that. I'd say it is closer to 60%

 

[djmich]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

I think that's called an annual review from my experience in the private sector. As a shareholder you have voting rights to change the board of directors who through a chain of command determine how that is done. So yes, you have a representative doing just that.

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Lots of mixing of apples and oranges in here. Teachers are not elected officials.

 

[Battersbox]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

No, but then again you can:1. Switch cable companies, or not buy cable at all2. Sell your stock, or not buy it at all3. Remain a customer or subscriber, provided you are happy with your level of service or investment return.The key component here is that it is your choice. You don't have to participate at all if you don't want to.Tax payers are not given a choice.

 

[djmich]

Teachers should not be making a total of $100,000 in compensation...and I come from a family of educators.

I don't agree with this. If you're good at what you do, like in the private sector, you should make better wages.

We all know many many unqualified people who make great coin because of personal relationships and nepotism. Don't act like you move up in the world only because you are good at what you do.

Did you just drop into the discussion to see your name?I'm not acting any way like that, of course people move up because they "know" people, but 90% of people earn their positions, and the better you are, the more likely you are to move up.

I'm not at all convinced of that. I'd say it is closer to 60%

What are we arguing here, that teachers shouldn't have to earn their positions because some percentage of the private sector does not?If a company wants to hire inefficient people, that's the company's business. If they can't sell products because of it that is the company and shareholders problem. If it can, then they must not be that inefficient. And lastly, if it can sell products and pay a bunch of bozo's a lavish salary...then go get a ####### job there.

If I am a resident and a school hires poor quality teachers and overpays them, that's my problem as a resident that sends my children there and pays property taxes.

 

[timschochet]

But the worst people in this whole drama are the Democrats in the State legislature. Their decision to disappear and go to other states is the most dangerous, anti-democratic aspect of this entire affair. How dare they do such a thing? It's terrible.

Efforts underway to recall & remove from office absent Democrats

Well, IMO that's going too far. I don't think they should be recalled or removed or put in jail. It's not at that level, IMO. But they really have a duty to return.

Why not?? They were "hired" to do a job. They are not doing that job. Removing them from office is probably a little steep since we need representation.

But there needs to be consequences for their actions. How about, if you are a no show for more than 5 days then you forfeit your ability for re-election?

If myself and a few co-workers didn't like the way things were happening at work ( which is about every week) and decided to just disappear so we didn't have to deal with it I guarantee you there wouldn't be a job for us to return to.

The reason that I would not punish them, despite the fact that I find their act reprehensible, is that it was a collective action taken by all Democrats. That means that it was a decision made at the highest level and likely at least some of them did not have a real choice in the matter. So I don't think any action should be taken except to punish them next time around at the ballot box. PS I like your compromise; I'd go for it. But I'm afraid this governor won't.

 

[Battersbox]

Well that depends on if you're active or passive. I never once saw a shareholder of a company I worked with refused access to see any facility. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say otherwise. In the case of a shareholder, he can sell his shares if he's unable to exact the changes he seeks. As taxpayers, we don't have that right so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Pff. If I owned 100 shares of Coca-Cola and asked to see the list of all of the employees, all their duties, all their compensation, and to walk through the corporate HQ they'd throw my ### out. There's a minimum amount of information and records which a corporation is obligated to provide but the bar is far beneath the level of information out there on public employees.In any case, I think it's an interesting question whether a citizen has an equity or service purchase relationship with the government. But to the extent that you think it's an equity stake, you can certainly sell your shares. Move. Settle somewhere else. Take on another citizenship. There's no such thing as a partial divestment, sure, but it's possible.And the fundamental point stands: people demand far, far, far, far more accountability and feel far, far, far more entitled to micro-manage employees and say how their tax dollars are being spent than they do in any other business or corporate relationship that is truly that passive.

You are right that people often spout off about where their tax dollars are going without really thinking about it. And public employees are definitely subject to scrutiny from time to time. But to say that taxpayers have choice because they can just move is pretty weak. How about they all just die? Then they'd have nothing to complain about. Of course, if they moved, who would pay the taxes then?

 

[Ilov80s]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

I don't know the exact numbers in Wisconsin are, but in Michigan about 30% of private workers have a college degree where as 50% of state employees have a college degree. Public workers on average are significantly better educated and trained.

 

[HellToupee]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

250k is doing really good for yourself , really good but not wealthy50k plus bennies isn't doable for a family if only 1 parent works

 

[Battersbox]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

No, but then again you can:1. Switch cable companies, or not buy cable at all2. Sell your stock, or not buy it at all3. Remain a customer or subscriber, provided you are happy with your level of service or investment return.The key component here is that it is your choice. You don't have to participate at all if you don't want to.Tax payers are not given a choice.

So? Just because you're forced upon a relationship with the government doesn't justify a complete micro-managing. And if you don't want to pay taxes, easy. Don't make any income. Or take on any other citizenship. Those are your choices.

I never said it justifies micro-managing, I agree with you there. But guess what, even if I don't make any income, I'm still taxed because I own a home. I suppose I could live in a box, that might help. It seems you think taxpayers should just pay what they are told or move. Thanks for the worldly advice.

 

[Ilov80s]

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Lots of mixing of apples and oranges in here. Teachers are not elected officials.

That's my ####### point.It's not your ####### job to evaluate the job and pay of teachers. It's your job to evaluate the job of the people that you elect, just as a shareholder you elect a CEO. Everything that happens underneath is not any more of your concern in one case than the other.

Great point here. How are the school board members not being the one's held over the fire here? They are the people who ultimately are in charge of finances and administration. If you feel teachers have been getting overpaid or not held accountable, the finger should be pointed first at the people who are hiring them, renewing their contracts, and failing to hold them accountable.

 

[Thunderlips]

I'm shuked here...which public employees shouldn't make more than which private sector employees?

 

[timschochet]

I have yet another compromise to offer: the unions agree to all budget cuts, AND agree to relinquishing collective bargaining rights for a period of two years- enough for the local governments to make the hard decisions that the governor is talking about. But at the end of that two year period, the union gets its bargaining rights back. This is somewhat like Snogger's compromise except that the union is giving even more away, yet preserving its status as a union.

If this is truly about the budget and about the ability of the local governments to deal with it, then the governor should be willing to accept this sort of compromise when it is offered (as I'm betting it will be at some point- if I thought of it, then somebody else will too.) If on the other hand, as so many people claim and I'm beginning to suspect, this is really about destroying the unions as a political force that supports the Democratic party, then no compromise will be accepted.

 

[sts911911]

If you need to boil this down for people that want to know the skinny on this situation, just say that the state of Wisconsin is asking their liberal leaning union workers to be treated just like "we" are at work. While Gov. Walker turns a blind eye to the groups of union workers who lean conservative...

They were given the ability to negotiate things they never should have been given the ability to. The milk and honey days are over. It's time union members learned what it's like to work in the real world.

 

[djmich]

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Lots of mixing of apples and oranges in here. Teachers are not elected officials.

That's my ####### point.It's not your ####### job to evaluate the job and pay of teachers. It's your job to evaluate the job of the people that you elect, just as a shareholder you elect a CEO. Everything that happens underneath is not any more of your concern in one case than the other.

So....Scott Walker was elected. I agree with what he is doing. Everything kosher?

 

[Ilov80s]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

Big difference, one is not paid for life with my tax dollars.

So if you work for my cable provider or a company I own stock in or a company that I buy a product from I can expect to hear a full detailing of your responsibilities and how you carry out your job?

No, but then again you can:1. Switch cable companies, or not buy cable at all2. Sell your stock, or not buy it at all3. Remain a customer or subscriber, provided you are happy with your level of service or investment return.The key component here is that it is your choice. You don't have to participate at all if you don't want to.Tax payers are not given a choice.

All citizens have the right to vote for their school board members and can attend school board meetings to express their opinions. There are often mills and other things to vote for. Don't act like the people paying have no say, they choose the representatives.

 

[Ilov80s]

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Lots of mixing of apples and oranges in here. Teachers are not elected officials.

That's my ####### point.It's not your ####### job to evaluate the job and pay of teachers. It's your job to evaluate the job of the people that you elect, just as a shareholder you elect a CEO. Everything that happens underneath is not any more of your concern in one case than the other.

So....Scott Walker was elected. I agree with what he is doing. Everything kosher?

Ofcourse, but he isn't a dictator, he has to work with a whole bunch of other elected officials. Some agree with him and some don't, hence the fight.

 

[Sarnoff]

I remember when right-wingers were outraged at the idea that individuals who made $250K in income per year were wealthy. Now $50K in income plus benefits is outrageously high.

The left-wingers should love what Gov. Walker is doing. For years now, the left has incited anger between the classes as a means towards instituting a broad system of wealth redistribution. Well, now they're getting it. Unfortunately for them, the economy has tanked to the point where only the unions and the other interest groups usually protected by the left are earning the big bucks anymore."Right now, the private sector worker makes about half of what the public sector worker does. Seems like the wealthy public sector should share."

Check the numbers. If there's a class war on (and there is) the poor certainly aren;t winning. I would love to see a link backing up the last statement.

I'm talking public vs. private sector

 

[HellToupee]

I have yet another compromise to offer: the unions agree to all budget cuts, AND agree to relinquishing collective bargaining rights for a period of two years-

Why not add that every teacher has to give Walker a blumpkin while you are being so fair what you are saying is to bust the union

 

[sts911911]

If you need to boil this down for people that want to know the skinny on this situation, just say that the state of Wisconsin is asking their liberal leaning union workers to be treated just like "we" are at work. While Gov. Walker turns a blind eye to the groups of union workers who lean conservative...

They were given the ability to negotiate things they never should have been given the ability to. The milk and honey days are over. It's time union members learned what it's like to work in the real world.

What's fair is fair, if the economy is bad and spending and cuts need to be made... then make cuts with health insurance and pensions across the board for every public employee. Fire fighters and police need to be included too...

 

[djmich]

So it's kinda like an election? Where the winner gets to staff their office with the people they choose? And if they screw up, people elects someone else and they choose someone else? And the people with the vested interest don't actually walk through the offices and demand accountability from everyone there? Is it kinda like that?And do you think you're making his point or mine?

Lots of mixing of apples and oranges in here. Teachers are not elected officials.

That's my ####### point.It's not your ####### job to evaluate the job and pay of teachers. It's your job to evaluate the job of the people that you elect, just as a shareholder you elect a CEO. Everything that happens underneath is not any more of your concern in one case than the other.

So....Scott Walker was elected. I agree with what he is doing. Everything kosher?

Ofcourse, but he isn't a dictator, he has to work with a whole bunch of other elected officials. Some agree with him and some don't, hence the fight.

OK, I'm cool with that, I'm not sure who isn't (except for the small fact that the elected officials that don't agree with him are hiding)

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Late to the party but I see the beloved Rev. Jesse Jackson has made his appearance to support the protesters in Madison.

Talk about someone who really needs a cross hair on him

 

[timschochet]

So....Scott Walker was elected. I agree with what he is doing. Everything kosher?

I'm curious about this. Has there been any polling yet for the state of Wisconsin to see what the public thinks about this?If I had to guess, I would guess that a slight majority are backing the governor, because his presentation has been excellent. On the other hand, there are lots of very progressive areas in Wisconsin, so I could be wrong.Whatever the results, it will be very carefully looked at by politicians of other states, that I guarantee. If, for instance, a strong majority either appear to be in support of Walker or opposed to him, that will tell us better than any other indicator whether or not his tactics will be repeated elsewhere.

 

[djmich]

I'm shuked here...which public employees shouldn't make more than which private sector employees?

Public employee should be paid as little as possible in order to still get the quality needed for the position. Supply and demand will drive that. Same as private sector.Not a issue of who makes more in my mind, the market should determine their pay.

 

[Mark Davis]

Well that depends on if you're active or passive. I never once saw a shareholder of a company I worked with refused access to see any facility. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say otherwise. In the case of a shareholder, he can sell his shares if he's unable to exact the changes he seeks. As taxpayers, we don't have that right so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Pff. If I owned 100 shares of Coca-Cola and asked to see the list of all of the employees, all their duties, all their compensation, and to walk through the corporate HQ they'd throw my ### out. There's a minimum amount of information and records which a corporation is obligated to provide but the bar is far beneath the level of information out there on public employees.In any case, I think it's an interesting question whether a citizen has an equity or service purchase relationship with the government. But to the extent that you think it's an equity stake, you can certainly sell your shares. Move. Settle somewhere else. Take on another citizenship. There's no such thing as a partial divestment, sure, but it's possible.And the fundamental point stands: people demand far, far, far, far more accountability and feel far, far, far more entitled to micro-manage employees and say how their tax dollars are being spent than they do in any other business or corporate relationship that is truly that passive.

Of course they would. You're also in that venture for profit as a shareholder. The entire enterprise of Coca-Cola is ran as a for profit entity. They have competitors and thereby there is going to be confidential information. I really don't think you can compare a publicly traded company with government employees. If you have a problem with the way a company you choose to invest in is run, you have various options. Yet it is your choice to invest in them. You don't have a choice whether or not you pay taxes.You're really reaching to compare selling shares and changing ones citizenship. One takes the click of a mouse, the other I hope you would agree is a little more involved than that.

 

[timschochet]

I have yet another compromise to offer: the unions agree to all budget cuts, AND agree to relinquishing collective bargaining rights for a period of two years-

Why not add that every teacher has to give Walker a blumpkin while you are being so fair what you are saying is to bust the union

You think I've gone too far? It would remove their rights during the current crisis only, but maintain them long term. I don't think that would bust the union.

 

[timschochet]

Late to the party but I see the beloved Rev. Jesse Jackson has made his appearance to support the protesters in Madison.

Talk about someone who really needs a cross hair on him

Take this crap elsewhere, idiot. This isn't Free Republic.

 

[Thunderlips]

I'm shuked here...which public employees shouldn't make more than which private sector employees?

Public employee should be paid as little as possible in order to still get the quality needed for the position. Supply and demand will drive that. Same as private sector.Not a issue of who makes more in my mind, the market should determine their pay.

That's how it's always been. In most of my anectodal evidence....I know that people who took public sector jobs took less money and got more fringe benefits (healthcare,vacation, job security, pension) than their private sector counterparts. Public sector v. private sector is tortoise and hare......with the hares now complaining because the tortoises have something that they don't.

 

[timschochet]

I probably shouldn't have called him an idiot. That's something I have never done here. But I can't believe somebody would post that ####.

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm shuked here...which public employees shouldn't make more than which private sector employees?

Public employee should be paid as little as possible in order to still get the quality needed for the position. Supply and demand will drive that. Same as private sector.Not a issue of who makes more in my mind, the market should determine their pay.

he EPI report found that a larger percentage of government and school employees have college degrees than those in the private sector -- 53% versus 31%.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110204/NEWS...-private-sectorThis is Michigan numbers, not Wisc. (but it might be safe to assume the data is similar). The public sector is targeting a better trained and educated workforce, so it would make sense that they would demand more pay. If jobs require specialized degrees and special certifications, that automatically decreases the pool of potential employees to fill the spot. If 70% of the private workforce does not have a college degree, they are clearly the more easily replaced worker.

 

[Ilov80s]

This bipartisan study in Michigan is pretty important and should be read by anyone passionate about this issue.

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/6713/

Article summarizing the study

 

[Ilov80s]

Also good reading, I found the EPI study of Wisconsin's public workers

Wisconsin Public Workers vs Private Workers

 

[timschochet]

Public employee should be paid as little as possible in order to still get the quality needed for the position. Supply and demand will drive that. Same as private sector.Not a issue of who makes more in my mind, the market should determine their pay.

This doesn't work. I don't want the "market" to determine how much teachers, policemen, and firemen should make. These are all professions I value quite a bit, and there is no market competition for any of them to determine their worth. As a society, we have decided that these professions should be offered to the public free of charge, paid for by our tax dollars, and that is the correct decision. How to determine the "quality needed" for a position? Personally, I think teachers are extremely valuable to our society, and should be paid in the range of $100,000 -$200,000 per year in order to achieve excellence. I think becoming a teacher should be a premier, sought after position, on the equal level of a corporate executive. That can only happen if we arbritarily decide to make it happen, and we're going in the opposite direction. Sad.