What are you babbling about? What do either Maddow or O'Donnell have to do with Walker being a coward?
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Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter cr8f
- Start date
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
I love it when a lefty has a melt down! This is classic!
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Is it still ownage if the person being owned doesn't realize it?
Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Of course it is! That is what makes it so wonderful with liberals. They have no idea when they are made to look like incompetent fools.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Case in pointIs this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
I have stayed away from this thread and responding to you because I am awed by your posts and how really really bad they are...I have finally convinced that you are actually one of the conservatives on this board trying to make a lefty look like a loon... You have accomplished that with flying colors...Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
Let me make this simple for you wingnuts or as simple as someone can make it for folks with less than 3 functioning brain cells. Walker is a coward. He simply did not run on a platform of stripping teachers of their collective bargaining rights. Do any of you dopes dispute this?I have stayed away from this thread and responding to you because I am awed by your posts and how really really bad they are...I have finally convinced that you are actually one of the conservatives on this board trying to make a lefty look like a loon... You have accomplished that with flying colors...Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
The ones that ran were the Democrats that bolted to Illinois. Walker ran to fix the budget. He is trying to do that. Now, you keep it up because it is awesome to watch a left wing nutjob try to deal with facts.Let me make this simple for you wingnuts or as simple as someone can make it for folks with less than 3 functioning brain cells. Walker is a coward. He simply did not run on a platform of stripping teachers of their collective bargaining rights. Do any of you dopes dispute this?I have stayed away from this thread and responding to you because I am awed by your posts and how really really bad they are...I have finally convinced that you are actually one of the conservatives on this board trying to make a lefty look like a loon... You have accomplished that with flying colors...Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Whats great is that you and johnny have managed to be as childish as possible in calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. Teabaggers...wing nuts. Grow up.Let me make this simple for you wingnuts or as simple as someone can make it for folks with less than 3 functioning brain cells. Walker is a coward. He simply did not run on a platform of stripping teachers of their collective bargaining rights. Do any of you dopes dispute this?I have stayed away from this thread and responding to you because I am awed by your posts and how really really bad they are...I have finally convinced that you are actually one of the conservatives on this board trying to make a lefty look like a loon... You have accomplished that with flying colors...Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
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dparker713
Footballguy
Someone is failing to be excellent to one another...Seriously, your shtick is pretty poor. You're supposed to bait the other posters into name calling, not start off the name calling.Let me make this simple for you wingnuts or as simple as someone can make it for folks with less than 3 functioning brain cells. Walker is a coward. He simply did not run on a platform of stripping teachers of their collective bargaining rights. Do any of you dopes dispute this?I have stayed away from this thread and responding to you because I am awed by your posts and how really really bad they are...I have finally convinced that you are actually one of the conservatives on this board trying to make a lefty look like a loon... You have accomplished that with flying colors...Is this what you need to tell yourself pac? Sick ownage? LOL.Sick ownage going on tonight. I think bear is down for the count.
cr8f
Footballguy
Analysis of the emails. He said after the bill was passed he got tens of thousands of emails supporting him-an exaggeration but did get more than against. His claim most protests were from out of state wasn't true regarding the emails.
At the request of Isthmus, the Center analyzed the emails. A team of reporters logged each of the emails in the sample as for or against the bill, unclear or unrelated. They also noted the location of the sender when possible.
Of the emails related to the bill, 62 percent supported it, while 32 percent opposed it. The margin of error for the Center’s sample size is plus or minus 2.3 percentage points.
The percentages are muddied by the fact that some people wrote more than one email — sometimes many more. The Center ran a computer script on the full set of emails and found at least 47,752 unique email addresses. The most prolific person sent at least 252 messages against the bill.
Those percentages align with Walker’s characterization of the emails on Feb. 17, when he told reporters that “the majority are telling us to stay firm, to stay strong, to stand with the taxpayers.”
The bill, introduced Feb. 11, called for eliminating most collective bargaining rights for 175,000 state and local public employees in the state and led to massive pro-labor protests. For nearly four weeks, tens of thousands of protesters filled the Capitol Square.
Walker remained unmoved by the opposition.
“We’re not going to allow for one minute the protesters to feel like they can drown out the voices of the millions of taxpayers across the state of Wisconsin,” Walker said Feb. 18.
Most opponents from Wisconsin
In a Feb. 22 phone call with a blogger posing as billionaire David Koch, one of Walker’s biggest campaign donors, said that aside from Wisconsin teachers, the protesters were “largely from out of state, and I keep dismissing it in all my press conferences saying, ‘Eh, they’re mostly from out of state.’ ”
But among those who emailed the governor, the overwhelming majority who opposed his bill were from Wisconsin, according to the sample reviewed. A significant proportion of Walker’s email supporters were from out of state, however, praising Walker for taking on “union thugs” and controlling spending.
The supportive emails came from at least 45 states and the District of Columbia, and four countries.
“Real Americans are standing with you,” one message said. “We in Texas understand your grit.”
Among the Center’s findings:
• Of the 1,493 emails on the bill where the sender’s location was apparent, the Center found that a third of Walker’s support came from outside the state.
• Eight-nine percent of the emails against Walker came from Wisconsinites.
• Out-of-state emailers overwhelmingly supported Walker, 85 percent to 15 percent, or a margin of nearly 6 to 1.
• When the Center looked only at emails from Wisconsin, the margin was much slimmer, with 55 percent favoring his bill and 42 percent opposed.
“So, actually, this is close to what he was saying,” said Charles Franklin, a professor of political science at UW-Madison.
At the request of Isthmus, the Center analyzed the emails. A team of reporters logged each of the emails in the sample as for or against the bill, unclear or unrelated. They also noted the location of the sender when possible.
Of the emails related to the bill, 62 percent supported it, while 32 percent opposed it. The margin of error for the Center’s sample size is plus or minus 2.3 percentage points.
The percentages are muddied by the fact that some people wrote more than one email — sometimes many more. The Center ran a computer script on the full set of emails and found at least 47,752 unique email addresses. The most prolific person sent at least 252 messages against the bill.
Those percentages align with Walker’s characterization of the emails on Feb. 17, when he told reporters that “the majority are telling us to stay firm, to stay strong, to stand with the taxpayers.”
The bill, introduced Feb. 11, called for eliminating most collective bargaining rights for 175,000 state and local public employees in the state and led to massive pro-labor protests. For nearly four weeks, tens of thousands of protesters filled the Capitol Square.
Walker remained unmoved by the opposition.
“We’re not going to allow for one minute the protesters to feel like they can drown out the voices of the millions of taxpayers across the state of Wisconsin,” Walker said Feb. 18.
Most opponents from Wisconsin
In a Feb. 22 phone call with a blogger posing as billionaire David Koch, one of Walker’s biggest campaign donors, said that aside from Wisconsin teachers, the protesters were “largely from out of state, and I keep dismissing it in all my press conferences saying, ‘Eh, they’re mostly from out of state.’ ”
But among those who emailed the governor, the overwhelming majority who opposed his bill were from Wisconsin, according to the sample reviewed. A significant proportion of Walker’s email supporters were from out of state, however, praising Walker for taking on “union thugs” and controlling spending.
The supportive emails came from at least 45 states and the District of Columbia, and four countries.
“Real Americans are standing with you,” one message said. “We in Texas understand your grit.”
Among the Center’s findings:
• Of the 1,493 emails on the bill where the sender’s location was apparent, the Center found that a third of Walker’s support came from outside the state.
• Eight-nine percent of the emails against Walker came from Wisconsinites.
• Out-of-state emailers overwhelmingly supported Walker, 85 percent to 15 percent, or a margin of nearly 6 to 1.
• When the Center looked only at emails from Wisconsin, the margin was much slimmer, with 55 percent favoring his bill and 42 percent opposed.
“So, actually, this is close to what he was saying,” said Charles Franklin, a professor of political science at UW-Madison.
cr8f
Footballguy
10 policies you may not have heard about. The titles are inflammatory in this I think but the details and links are mostly real.
The drinking water contamination in Milwaukee(cited) was very bad. Also not allowing students to vote with school photo ID is too. In 2008 AG Van Hollen disenfranchised quite a lot of voters but I haven't had time to look that up. I'm voting absentee to have a paper trail.
He's also flying all over the state(in what he said is a budget crisis) when he could be driven and acts like George W Bush ignoring voters and only allowing supporters in to hear him.
The drinking water contamination in Milwaukee(cited) was very bad. Also not allowing students to vote with school photo ID is too. In 2008 AG Van Hollen disenfranchised quite a lot of voters but I haven't had time to look that up. I'm voting absentee to have a paper trail.
He's also flying all over the state(in what he said is a budget crisis) when he could be driven and acts like George W Bush ignoring voters and only allowing supporters in to hear him.
sho nuff
Footballguy
So, his claim that most support him was right...and the article adds the caveat "where the location was apparent". Once again, in your haste to cut and paste, you probably didn't even read the whole thing.
And I see no need to click a link to something that you "think" the details are "mostly true".
Pretty good chance that most of it is BS coming from you.
And I see no need to click a link to something that you "think" the details are "mostly true".
Pretty good chance that most of it is BS coming from you.
cr8f
Footballguy
If you mean me I read the whole thing but didn't want to paste the whole thing to keep messages short. I did include the link for the whole thing.
His claim most emails supported him was right, but his claim of thousands of supporters emails was not.
This is about Walker not me.
I include the links so people can read the whole article.
Like this one-Hoppers girlfriend (or Mistress) getting raise
"If she were to put in a full year in her current job, she would make about $43,200. Her predecessor was paid at a rate of $31,200 a year."
rick6668
Footballguy
Yeah.. but.. Are they REALLY good jobs and just not regular good jobs?Since you can't grasp a simple concept like this here is the answer....yes, they are good jobs. Also, it is a good thing when people can find a job instead of being unemployed. I hope you can grasp that as well.The fact you can't understand that or even question it is absolutely pathetic.Yup, exactly the answer I expected.... No answer.. LMAOIt's pathetic you even have to ask if they are "good jobs" after getting. It's funny you don't have the common sense to realize how foolish you look asking if they are "good jobs".
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes, I meant you and was talking about the first article.Thousands did support him actually. So, doesn't look like you did read it too well.
Its about your inability to read through an article to bash Walker because you disagree with his policies.
The new link...wow, someone got interviewed and hired for a position. Yes, she got a pay raise...that nobody can really say why (you can speculate and its probably the case that she is getting more because of who she knows...nothing new either).
fightingillini
Footballguy
My eyes and ears didn't lie. I saw what the left did in Madison. I heard the hateful comments. Just admit it, the left acted like babies.
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
This thread is getting a little out of control.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agreed...the two who can't seem to get past people disagreeing with them without calling everyone "obviously blind and stupid" or having to make things "as simple as someone can make it for folks with less than 3 functioning brain cells"...to go along with teabaggers teabagging...kind of bringing things down to a sad level (hard to do with Mr. Cut and Paste running around).Not that the other side is acting much better, but at least staying above that kind of talk.
Getting? This thread has been horrible for quite some time. It doesn't resemble a discussion as much as it does two opposing groups of monkeys throwing feces at each other.
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cr8f
Footballguy
Seniors are protesting today because he's cutting SeniorCare-the senior drug program.
This 91 year old saying he's "young enough to kick some butt - bend over Mr Walker".
This 91 year old saying he's "young enough to kick some butt - bend over Mr Walker".
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Oshkosh Northwestern
Walker's reform in practice
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
Walker's reform in practice
The first bolded part illustrates how Walker's proposal helps local school districts save money.The second part I'm just
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Agreed. I don't pay attention to things in here like I did before. Between cr8f's serial cut/paste job and bear's nonstop fishing, it's become unbearable.'Shtaym Syek said:
Leviathan
Footballguy
90 sick days a year? I understand that you're not permitted to roll them over into the next year, but that's borderline Caligula-like excess. Jeebus.Oshkosh Northwestern
Walker's reform in practice
The first bolded part illustrates how Walker's proposal helps local school districts save money.The second part I'm just
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
Johnnymac
Footballguy
I seriously doubt they get 90 days a year. You guys really believe that?90 sick days a year? I understand that you're not permitted to roll them over into the next year, but that's borderline Caligula-like excess. Jeebus.Oshkosh Northwestern
Walker's reform in practice
The first bolded part illustrates how Walker's proposal helps local school districts save money.The second part I'm just
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
It's on the Internet. No way it's not true.
Leviathan
Footballguy
I don't know. I'm not from WI and really don't have a dog in this fight. If it is true, I'm speechless.I seriously doubt they get 90 days a year. You guys really believe that?90 sick days a year? I understand that you're not permitted to roll them over into the next year, but that's borderline Caligula-like excess. Jeebus.Oshkosh Northwestern
Walker's reform in practice
The first bolded part illustrates how Walker's proposal helps local school districts save money.The second part I'm just
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Did you read the Oshkosh Northwestern article? It's on page 2. The radio host was convinced this was a typo and called the newspaper. They confirmed it as correct. In addition, an Oshkosh school teacher called in to the station and confirmed it as well. The union negotiated it in case of serious illness.I seriously doubt they get 90 days a year. You guys really believe that?90 sick days a year? I understand that you're not permitted to roll them over into the next year, but that's borderline Caligula-like excess. Jeebus.Oshkosh Northwestern
Walker's reform in practice
The first bolded part illustrates how Walker's proposal helps local school districts save money.The second part I'm just
90 sick days for teachers??? An Oshkosh teacher actually called a local radio station today trying to defend it. His defense was, "You have to understand, those don't carry over from year to year."
cr8f
Footballguy
Good work Scotty
Developer cancels plan for big wind farm
e-mail print By Thomas Content of the Journal Sentinel
March 21, 2011 5:28 p.m. |(66) COMMENTS
Chicago energy development firm Invenergy on Monday notified state regulators that it’s withdrawing plans to build a large wind power project south of Green Bay.
The project, announced in October 2009, would have seen construction of 94 to 100 turbines in and generated 150 megawatts of electricity. Based on energy output, it would have been the second-largest wind project in the state, after the Glacier Hills Wind Park in Columbia County.
The proposal generated significant opposition in rural Brown County, with residents of towns that would host the project generating much of the opposition to wind siting rules that are being debated in Madison.
The company said it was concerned about moving forward because of the state of flux in Wisconsin’s regulatory climate when it comes to wind siting. Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a bill that would sharply curtail wind development, and a legislative committee moved this month to block a less restrictive wind siting standard from taking effect.
“The absence of regulatory stability has made it imprudent for Invenergy to proceed with investments in a project which unknown regulations might make infeasible to construct,” the company’s director of development, Kevin Parzyck, said in a letter to the state Public Service Commission.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/118397164.html
Developer cancels plan for big wind farm
e-mail print By Thomas Content of the Journal Sentinel
March 21, 2011 5:28 p.m. |(66) COMMENTS
Chicago energy development firm Invenergy on Monday notified state regulators that it’s withdrawing plans to build a large wind power project south of Green Bay.
The project, announced in October 2009, would have seen construction of 94 to 100 turbines in and generated 150 megawatts of electricity. Based on energy output, it would have been the second-largest wind project in the state, after the Glacier Hills Wind Park in Columbia County.
The proposal generated significant opposition in rural Brown County, with residents of towns that would host the project generating much of the opposition to wind siting rules that are being debated in Madison.
The company said it was concerned about moving forward because of the state of flux in Wisconsin’s regulatory climate when it comes to wind siting. Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a bill that would sharply curtail wind development, and a legislative committee moved this month to block a less restrictive wind siting standard from taking effect.
“The absence of regulatory stability has made it imprudent for Invenergy to proceed with investments in a project which unknown regulations might make infeasible to construct,” the company’s director of development, Kevin Parzyck, said in a letter to the state Public Service Commission.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/118397164.html
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Don't know what to tell you. All I know is that the newspaper confirmed it, a caller to the radio station confirmed it (I suppose he could have been lying about being an Oshkosh teacher). And I agree it is ridiculous.I doubt any teachers have ever used the 90 days but think of the potential cost to the school district. 90 sick days paid plus a substitute teacher if they did use it. Maybe one of those doctors in Madison could write them a fake sick note for 90 days?
the moops
Footballguy
If we are just quoting anonymous internet posters, I got one.Oshkosh teachers are not able to "bank" sick days, nor are they paid for days not used. Many years ago the 90 sick days were proposed by the school board in place of short term disability insurance coverage. 95% of Oshkosh teachers use 3 or less sick days each year.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
cr8f
Footballguy
Sykes is a hack so I emailed him for the link to the contract. Most decent reporters would provide such verification.
I'd like to see how it's structured. Does this mean a teacher could take maternity leave or major medical up to 90 days? I don't see someone being paid that long, but will wait and see what he provides. I'd like to read the contract.
I'd like to see how it's structured. Does this mean a teacher could take maternity leave or major medical up to 90 days? I don't see someone being paid that long, but will wait and see what he provides. I'd like to read the contract.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I would love to see it. 90 sick days a year is craziness. I am a teacher and we get 7 a year. They do rollover if you don't use them and there is a sick bank that a teacher could borrow from if say they got cancer and treatment caused them to miss a few months of work. However to give every teacher 90 sick days every year seems really excessive. I would assume the teachers would need a doctors note every day they take off.
cr8f
Footballguy
Another reporter told me this-still waiting on Sykes.'The union negotiated 90 days of "income protection" for disability or long illness. I used to work for a non-union newspaper that gave 180 days, which a few people used because they got cancer, one had a heart transplant and another was in a car wreck, so 90 days is not all that unusual and if someone has a serious illness or accident not that long.The question to ask would be what is the average number of sick days actually taken per year.'It's protection(it seems) in case of long term illness I doubt most people use probably because you would need good cause (like hip replacement or cancer). It sounds awful but how often can it actually be used?
the moops
Footballguy
I posted this on the previous page.Oshkosh teachers are not able to "bank" sick days, nor are they paid for days not used. Many years ago the 90 sick days were proposed by the school board in place of short term disability insurance coverage. 95% of Oshkosh teachers use 3 or less sick days each year.
ffjunk
Footballguy
It wasn't too hard to find and it doesn't appear to be as simple as it sounds:
ARTICLE 20 - INCOME PROTECTION
(A) All teachers shall be guaranteed ninety (90) teaching days of income protection for each teaching contract year in the event of
absences due to sickness or disability. Such income protection shall be prorated for teachers teaching less than full time.
(B) Absences of illness in the immediate family shall be covered by this provision, provided such absences are caused by critical
illness, a sudden call for suspected critical condition, the necessity of taking a member of the family to the hospital, or the making
of arrangements for care due to sudden illness, but shall not apply to cases where the employee's presence is required as a nurse, or
as a caretaker, or to provide for the operation of the family due to sickness or an accident in the family.
© The Board reserves the right to send an employee to a physician at district expense for an examination when deemed necessary.
Such teacher will submit to such examination unless refusal is based on bona fide religious convictions.
(D) Teachers shall not continue to draw daily income protection benefits after they become eligible for benefits under the district's
Long Term Disability Plan, however, any unused days shall remain in the teacher's personal account.
("Personal account" defined as being those unused income protection days remaining of the original ninety (90) days).
ARTICLE 20 - INCOME PROTECTION
(A) All teachers shall be guaranteed ninety (90) teaching days of income protection for each teaching contract year in the event of
absences due to sickness or disability. Such income protection shall be prorated for teachers teaching less than full time.
(B) Absences of illness in the immediate family shall be covered by this provision, provided such absences are caused by critical
illness, a sudden call for suspected critical condition, the necessity of taking a member of the family to the hospital, or the making
of arrangements for care due to sudden illness, but shall not apply to cases where the employee's presence is required as a nurse, or
as a caretaker, or to provide for the operation of the family due to sickness or an accident in the family.
© The Board reserves the right to send an employee to a physician at district expense for an examination when deemed necessary.
Such teacher will submit to such examination unless refusal is based on bona fide religious convictions.
(D) Teachers shall not continue to draw daily income protection benefits after they become eligible for benefits under the district's
Long Term Disability Plan, however, any unused days shall remain in the teacher's personal account.
("Personal account" defined as being those unused income protection days remaining of the original ninety (90) days).
The Kerminator
Footballguy
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
So it seems. Doesn't look quite as outrageous as it first appeared.
bakes
I am the Beer God!
Basically. It's akin to New York's Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), which guarantees that a person cannot be terminated due to pregnancy or short term disability for a certain period of time.
cr8f
Footballguy
No but that's Sykes for you. It's what Palin called Gotcha Journalism-looking for dirt and just reporting just the negative parts of it.
A good report should provide context-show how that 90 days would be used or abused- find out how many people are abusing it and then get comments from the School Board and teachers union.
And post a link to the actual contract or at least copy and paste the relevant parts so people can check it out.
Another question is what would happen if you got cancer, needed a hip or knee replacement-what would happen in your job?
Walker administration still intends to sell state power plants without bids.
State Rep. Brett Hulsey, D-Madison, said he hopes Walker decides to introduce the power plant proposal as legislation so that it can be discussed in committees. Democrats in the Assembly tried to remove the proposal from the budget repair bill and also proposed several amendments, including restoring the bid process, but all those efforts were voted down by Republicans.
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Eric Stratton
Footballguy
You do realize you do the same crap here.
cr8f
Footballguy
Interesting Op-Ed about Wisconsin history
Also Oshkosh posted this on the sick leave
Wisconsin’s Radical Break
By WILLIAM CRONON
NOW that a Wisconsin judge has temporarily blocked a state law that would strip public employee unions of most collective bargaining rights, it’s worth stepping back to place these events in larger historical context.
Republicans in Wisconsin are seeking to reverse civic traditions that for more than a century have been among the most celebrated achievements not just of their state, but of their own party as well.
Wisconsin was at the forefront of the progressive reform movement in the early 20th century, when the policies of Gov. Robert M. La Follette prompted a fellow Republican, Theodore Roosevelt, to call the state a “laboratory of democracy.” The state pioneered many social reforms: It was the first to introduce workers’ compensation, in 1911; unemployment insurance, in 1932; and public employee bargaining, in 1959.
University of Wisconsin professors helped design Social Security and were responsible for founding the union that eventually became the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Wisconsin reformers were equally active in promoting workplace safety, and often led the nation in natural resource conservation and environmental protection.
But while Americans are aware of this progressive tradition, they probably don’t know that many of the innovations on behalf of working people were at least as much the work of Republicans as of Democrats.
Although Wisconsin has a Democratic reputation these days — it backed the party’s presidential candidates in 2000, 2004 and 2008 — the state was dominated by Republicans for a full century after the Civil War. The Democratic Party was so ineffective that Wisconsin politics were largely conducted as debates between the progressive and conservative wings of the Republican Party.
When the Wisconsin Democratic Party finally revived itself in the 1950s, it did so in a context where members of both parties were unusually open to bipartisan policy approaches. Many of the new Democrats had in fact been progressive Republicans just a few years earlier, having left the party in revulsion against the reactionary politics of their own senator, Joseph R. McCarthy, and in sympathy with postwar liberalizing forces like the growing civil rights movement.
The demonizing of government at all levels that has become such a reflexive impulse for conservatives in the early 21st century would have mystified most elected officials in Wisconsin just a few decades ago.
When Gov. Gaylord A. Nelson, a Democrat, sought to extend collective bargaining rights to municipal workers in 1959, he did so in partnership with a Legislature in which one house was controlled by the Republicans. Both sides believed the normalization of labor-management relations would increase efficiency and avoid crippling strikes like those of the Milwaukee garbage collectors during the 1950s. Later, in 1967, when collective bargaining was extended to state workers for the same reasons, the reform was promoted by a Republican governor, Warren P. Knowles, with a Republican Legislature.
The policies that the current governor, Scott Walker, has sought to overturn, in other words, are legacies of his own party.
But Mr. Walker’s assault on collective bargaining rights breaks with Wisconsin history in two much deeper ways as well. Among the state’s proudest traditions is a passion for transparent government that often strikes outsiders as extreme. Its open meetings law, open records law and public comment procedures are among the strongest in the nation. Indeed, the basis for the restraining order blocking the collective bargaining law is that Republicans may have violated open meetings rules in passing it. The legislation they have enacted turns out to be radical not just in its content, but in its blunt ends-justify-the-means disregard for openness and transparency.
This in turn points to what is perhaps Mr. Walker’s greatest break from the political traditions of his state. Wisconsinites have long believed that common problems deserve common solutions, and that when something needs fixing, we should roll up our sleeves and work together — no matter what our politics — to achieve the common good.
Mr. Walker’s conduct has provoked a level of divisiveness and bitter partisan hostility the likes of which have not been seen in this state since at least the Vietnam War. Many citizens are furious at their governor and his party, not only because of profound policy differences, but because these particular Republicans have exercised power in abusively nontransparent ways that represent such a radical break from the state’s tradition of open government.
Perhaps that is why — as a centrist and a lifelong independent — I have found myself returning over the past few weeks to the question posed by the lawyer Joseph N. Welch during the hearings that finally helped bring down another Wisconsin Republican, Joe McCarthy, in 1954: “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?”
Scott Walker is not Joe McCarthy. Their political convictions and the two moments in history are quite different. But there is something about the style of the two men — their aggressiveness, their self-certainty, their seeming indifference to contrary views — that may help explain the extreme partisan reactions they triggered. McCarthy helped create the modern Democratic Party in Wisconsin by infuriating progressive Republicans, imagining that he could build a national platform by cultivating an image as a sternly uncompromising leader willing to attack anyone who stood in his way. Mr. Walker appears to be provoking some of the same ire from adversaries and from advocates of good government by acting with a similar contempt for those who disagree with him.
The turmoil in Wisconsin is not only about bargaining rights or the pension payments of public employees. It is about transparency and openness. It is about neighborliness, decency and mutual respect. Joe McCarthy forgot these lessons of good government, and so, I fear, has Mr. Walker. Wisconsin’s citizens have not.
William Cronon is a professor of history, geography and environmental studies at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.
Also Oshkosh posted this on the sick leave
Wisconsin’s Radical Break
By WILLIAM CRONON
NOW that a Wisconsin judge has temporarily blocked a state law that would strip public employee unions of most collective bargaining rights, it’s worth stepping back to place these events in larger historical context.
Republicans in Wisconsin are seeking to reverse civic traditions that for more than a century have been among the most celebrated achievements not just of their state, but of their own party as well.
Wisconsin was at the forefront of the progressive reform movement in the early 20th century, when the policies of Gov. Robert M. La Follette prompted a fellow Republican, Theodore Roosevelt, to call the state a “laboratory of democracy.” The state pioneered many social reforms: It was the first to introduce workers’ compensation, in 1911; unemployment insurance, in 1932; and public employee bargaining, in 1959.
University of Wisconsin professors helped design Social Security and were responsible for founding the union that eventually became the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Wisconsin reformers were equally active in promoting workplace safety, and often led the nation in natural resource conservation and environmental protection.
But while Americans are aware of this progressive tradition, they probably don’t know that many of the innovations on behalf of working people were at least as much the work of Republicans as of Democrats.
Although Wisconsin has a Democratic reputation these days — it backed the party’s presidential candidates in 2000, 2004 and 2008 — the state was dominated by Republicans for a full century after the Civil War. The Democratic Party was so ineffective that Wisconsin politics were largely conducted as debates between the progressive and conservative wings of the Republican Party.
When the Wisconsin Democratic Party finally revived itself in the 1950s, it did so in a context where members of both parties were unusually open to bipartisan policy approaches. Many of the new Democrats had in fact been progressive Republicans just a few years earlier, having left the party in revulsion against the reactionary politics of their own senator, Joseph R. McCarthy, and in sympathy with postwar liberalizing forces like the growing civil rights movement.
The demonizing of government at all levels that has become such a reflexive impulse for conservatives in the early 21st century would have mystified most elected officials in Wisconsin just a few decades ago.
When Gov. Gaylord A. Nelson, a Democrat, sought to extend collective bargaining rights to municipal workers in 1959, he did so in partnership with a Legislature in which one house was controlled by the Republicans. Both sides believed the normalization of labor-management relations would increase efficiency and avoid crippling strikes like those of the Milwaukee garbage collectors during the 1950s. Later, in 1967, when collective bargaining was extended to state workers for the same reasons, the reform was promoted by a Republican governor, Warren P. Knowles, with a Republican Legislature.
The policies that the current governor, Scott Walker, has sought to overturn, in other words, are legacies of his own party.
But Mr. Walker’s assault on collective bargaining rights breaks with Wisconsin history in two much deeper ways as well. Among the state’s proudest traditions is a passion for transparent government that often strikes outsiders as extreme. Its open meetings law, open records law and public comment procedures are among the strongest in the nation. Indeed, the basis for the restraining order blocking the collective bargaining law is that Republicans may have violated open meetings rules in passing it. The legislation they have enacted turns out to be radical not just in its content, but in its blunt ends-justify-the-means disregard for openness and transparency.
This in turn points to what is perhaps Mr. Walker’s greatest break from the political traditions of his state. Wisconsinites have long believed that common problems deserve common solutions, and that when something needs fixing, we should roll up our sleeves and work together — no matter what our politics — to achieve the common good.
Mr. Walker’s conduct has provoked a level of divisiveness and bitter partisan hostility the likes of which have not been seen in this state since at least the Vietnam War. Many citizens are furious at their governor and his party, not only because of profound policy differences, but because these particular Republicans have exercised power in abusively nontransparent ways that represent such a radical break from the state’s tradition of open government.
Perhaps that is why — as a centrist and a lifelong independent — I have found myself returning over the past few weeks to the question posed by the lawyer Joseph N. Welch during the hearings that finally helped bring down another Wisconsin Republican, Joe McCarthy, in 1954: “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?”
Scott Walker is not Joe McCarthy. Their political convictions and the two moments in history are quite different. But there is something about the style of the two men — their aggressiveness, their self-certainty, their seeming indifference to contrary views — that may help explain the extreme partisan reactions they triggered. McCarthy helped create the modern Democratic Party in Wisconsin by infuriating progressive Republicans, imagining that he could build a national platform by cultivating an image as a sternly uncompromising leader willing to attack anyone who stood in his way. Mr. Walker appears to be provoking some of the same ire from adversaries and from advocates of good government by acting with a similar contempt for those who disagree with him.
The turmoil in Wisconsin is not only about bargaining rights or the pension payments of public employees. It is about transparency and openness. It is about neighborliness, decency and mutual respect. Joe McCarthy forgot these lessons of good government, and so, I fear, has Mr. Walker. Wisconsin’s citizens have not.
William Cronon is a professor of history, geography and environmental studies at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.
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