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Scouts, coaches not sold on Leinart, Young as Pros (1 Viewer)

cstu

Footballguy
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11803548/

The New Orleans Saints could probably have their choice of Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler or Vince Young with the No. 2 overall pick in the NFL draft at the end of April.

One pick later, Tennessee will have at least one of the three to pick from. That’s assured.

So why is it that New Orleans and Tennessee both spent the opening weekend of NFL free agency pursuing veteran quarterbacks who may not be able to play this season? In the case of the Saints, they entertained quarterback Drew Brees on Saturday and Sunday, even though Brees won’t be able to throw until May, at the earliest, because of a shoulder injury and subsequent surgery in January.

As for Tennessee, it called Minnesota late last week to inquire about a trade for Culpepper as word seeped out that the Vikings were finally done dealing with his antics. The Titans even had a deal in place to get Culpepper, who is recovering from a traumatic knee injury last season, before he told them he wasn’t interested in playing for them.

Culpepper, who pulled the same act with Oakland, is waiting for Miami to make a call on its future at quarterback. The Dolphins are trying to get Brees also, and the fallback plan is to trade for Culpepper.

But what’s of greater curiosity is why two teams who have a chance to take young passers who some have called “franchise quarterbacks” are so interested in damaged goods. There are a bunch of sound strategic reasons, such as that Brees and Culpepper are potentially relative bargains at this point because of the injuries. In the case of New Orleans, the Saints also need to attract a big-time player to develop momentum to get other players to come there.Still, there is this troublesome, underlying point, particularly when you consider the injury factor. Why not take a young, healthy player over an injured veteran?

The answer is simple: This year’s quarterback class may really not be all that good.

With Young, there are already plenty of odd issues. His offseason workout regimen has been sporadic. His Wonderlic score made people wonder what’s going on. His run-heavy style of play may not be suited for the pro game.

As for Leinart, most coaches, scouts and executives fall into a well-developed pack of thinking. He doesn’t have the greatest arm, but he’s exceptionally accurate and he has all the intangibles.

That said, there was one offensive coordinator who said, “Thanks, but no thanks.”

“I’m different than most people on a lot of this stuff, but I see Leinart as a third- or fourth-round pick,” the coach said. “He’s an OK player, but he doesn’t move all that well and his throwing is just so-so. He’s not all that accurate … He just doesn’t excite me. He’s going to be a top five pick and all that, but you won’t see my team take him.”Cutler is the one quarterback in the group who escapes most of the scrutiny. Coaches love his arm and his competitiveness. He’s a little short at 6-foot-2, but not enough to be of great concern. His footwork is a little unorthodox and he’s throws off his back foot a lot, but much of that has to do with the way he had to play at Vanderbilt.

Still, even with Cutler, the majority opinion is that he’s good, but perhaps overrated. Going into the season, most NFL folk didn’t consider him a first-round pick. Now, there’s talk he’ll be a top 3 pick.

All of that brings us back to what New Orleans and Tennessee must be thinking about.

In the case of the No. 2 and 3 picks in the draft, the players drafted there are both likely to get in excess of $20 million in guaranteed money.

Perhaps as much as $25 million. That’s not just a lot of money, that’s a lot of money to spend on an unproven quarterback who could as easily be Ryan Leaf as he is Peyton Manning.

Thus, why not spend a lot less in terms of guaranteed money to get someone like Brees or Culpepper, who have proven that they can play at this level. Sure, the injuries are significant, but the risk isn’t as high.

Particularly when you consider that the top three quarterbacks may not be as good as what everybody thought a month ago.
 
M

MLBrandow

Guest
Reads like propaganda to me. Jay Cutler comes from out of nowhere to be argued the best QB in the draft. Certainly a viable argument, but there's not a chance we're having this argument during the Rose Bowl.

It sure would be something to see New Orleans take Jay Cutler with the 2nd pick though.

 

Kleck

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.

 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Were I an NFL owner I don't know I would ever take a qb first day. I'd simply wait for them to develop elsewhere then sign.
 

Kleck

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Were I an NFL owner I don't know I would ever take a qb first day. I'd simply wait for them to develop elsewhere then sign.
:PointsToBob:
 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
completely agree...especially in the first round. 2nd and 3rd round guys are affordable enough to develop.That being said, I love Leinart's potential...I wouldn't draft him, but he really strikes me as a guy that can make it in the Pros because of his decision making ability and poise in the pocket. Young and Cutler...not so much.

 

Irish

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
completely agree...especially in the first round. 2nd and 3rd round guys are affordable enough to develop.That being said, I love Leinart's potential...I wouldn't draft him, but he really strikes me as a guy that can make it in the Pros because of his decision making ability and poise in the pocket. Young and Cutler...not so much.
I would have great decision making and poise in the pocket if I played for USC and played in the defense challenged Pac-10. Put him in the NO backfield playing behind an suspect OL minus Bentley and then we'll find out about Leinart's poise and decision making abilities. I do think that Leinart does get a bad rap about his mobilty, I think he moves around pretty good for a bigger qb, not the statue that some portray him as. I don't think he will be an all out bust ala Leaf, but I don't see him as a franchise type qb who will make Pro Bowls either.
 

Hawk

Footballguy
These two guys haven't even had their pro-days yet?
Pro-day schmo-day.What is anyone going to see in this one day that they don't have in 30+ games of tape?
Then maybe those scouts and coahes ought to remember what the tapes showed. Young and Leinart were considered top draft picks after the season because they played so well, now they haven't played a game since and all of a sudden they're these terrible QB's...3rd round picks...Cutler is better...blah blah blah...bullsh*t! Franchise QB's are the most precious comodity in the NFL, the salaries speak for themselves. If you have a chance to take a guy that not only looks like he has the potential to be a franchise QB, but has also led his team to a national championship in college and is therefore a proven winner, then you do not pass on that chance. The franchises that are afraid to spend the money to try to get that are the ones doomed to failure anyway.

Besides, every single player in the draft is unproven at the NFL level and has the risk of being a colossal bust, that is not limited to QB's, so you are going to spend that money on whoever you take at that spot and you still won't be guaranteed a great player. So you might as well go for the highest upside.

 
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beto

Footballguy
I like Leinart and Culter a heck of a lot better than I like last seasons QBs and VY has more physical ability than anybody since Vick.

 

UnknownCoach

Footballguy
I like Leinart and Culter a heck of a lot better than I like last seasons QBs and VY has more physical ability than anybody since Vick.
Leinhart would have been the clear cut number one last year if he had come out. However, last year's draft was considered lacking at the very top. Smith wouldnt have been a top 5 pick in a normal draft I dont think.
 

Hawk

Footballguy
I like Leinart and Culter a heck of a lot better than I like last seasons QBs and VY has more physical ability than anybody since Vick.
Leinhart would have been the clear cut number one last year if he had come out. However, last year's draft was considered lacking at the very top. Smith wouldnt have been a top 5 pick in a normal draft I dont think.
That draft was considered weak at the top because guys like Leinart stayed in school. If people don't think Leinart and Young are worthy of top 3 picks, then all of a sudden this draft isn't that strong at the top either. IMO, people are spending a lot of time trying to talk themselves out of two outstanding players. Dumb.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Why just QB? I think you guys are missing the point. Any top 5 pick is a gamble, period. There are as many busts at other positions, see Blair Thomas, Aundray Bruce, Tony Mandarich, Kijana Carter, Dan Wilkinson, etc. Giving $20-25 million guaranteed to any player, at any position who has not played 1 down in the NFL is risky. Even Reggie Bush is risky, because he will command even more money. He might be a stud, but he might not, but he is risky because he will get paid like SA and LT with no experience.Look even at last year, Cedric Benson sure didn't do anymore than Alex Smith, did he? How about Braylon Edwards? And that was even though no one thought Alex Smith was a Peyton Manning, sure thing.

I don't think Indy is upset that they gambled on Manning, or even the Giants gambling on his brother. Do you think fans in Cincy, before Kimo's hit, were upset that Cincy gambled on Palmer. Aikman and Elway weren't half bad either.

I think Andy is correct, this is just reporters finding 1 source and then expounding that into an entire article. Why wouldn't Tennessee check in on CPepp, it is the GM's job to try every avenue to make the team better.

 
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Kleck

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Why just QB? I think you guys are missing the point. Any top 5 pick is a gamble, period. There are as many busts at other positions, see Blair Thomas, Aundray Bruce, Tony Mandarich, Kijana Carter, Dan Wilkinson, etc. Giving $20-25 million guaranteed to any player, at any position who has not played 1 down in the NFL is risky. Even Reggie Bush is risky, because he will command even more money. He might be a stud, but he might not, but he is risky because he will get paid like SA and LT with no experience.Look even at last year, ....
I would prefer not to look at any particular year, but at a large number of years and data collected over a long period of time. If you believe that fantasy production is any indication of NFL success this may alter your opinion. Its an old article I wrote that correlates fantasy production to draft position.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
completely agree...especially in the first round. 2nd and 3rd round guys are affordable enough to develop.That being said, I love Leinart's potential...I wouldn't draft him, but he really strikes me as a guy that can make it in the Pros because of his decision making ability and poise in the pocket. Young and Cutler...not so much.
Why is the whole 1st round QB thing always brought up so disparagingly?Look at the top 15 QBs last year:

1st round picks: 8, including 5 who were the 1st overall pick

2nd round picks: 2, including Brees who was the first pick in the 2nd round

5th round picks: 1

6th round picks: 2

8th round picks: 1

Undrafted: 1

So 8 out of the top 15 were 1st round picks and that was with Culpepper and McNabb not in the top 15 and both of them were 1st round picks.

Also, just for your reading pleasure, guess how many of the 7 non-first round picks are still with the team that drafted them? Only 2, and one of those, Brees, is soon to be elsewhere.

So, feel free to say you are going to draft a 2nd/3rd round QB and develop them, since only 1 out of the top 15 QBs, Tom Brady, is not a 1st round pick and is actually still with the team that developed him.

By the way in case you think RB is safer, only 6 of the top 15 RBs were 1st round picks and one of those was Thomas Jones, all but given up on before his resurrection.

 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Were I an NFL owner I don't know I would ever take a qb first day. I'd simply wait for them to develop elsewhere then sign.
:goodposting:
 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
completely agree...especially in the first round. 2nd and 3rd round guys are affordable enough to develop.That being said, I love Leinart's potential...I wouldn't draft him, but he really strikes me as a guy that can make it in the Pros because of his decision making ability and poise in the pocket. Young and Cutler...not so much.
Why is the whole 1st round QB thing always brought up so disparagingly?Look at the top 15 QBs last year:

1st round picks: 8, including 5 who were the 1st overall pick

2nd round picks: 2, including Brees who was the first pick in the 2nd round

5th round picks: 1

6th round picks: 2

8th round picks: 1

Undrafted: 1

So 8 out of the top 15 were 1st round picks and that was with Culpepper and McNabb not in the top 15 and both of them were 1st round picks.

Also, just for your reading pleasure, guess how many of the 7 non-first round picks are still with the team that drafted them? Only 2, and one of those, Brees, is soon to be elsewhere.

So, feel free to say you are going to draft a 2nd/3rd round QB and develop them, since only 1 out of the top 15 QBs, Tom Brady, is not a 1st round pick and is actually still with the team that developed him.

By the way in case you think RB is safer, only 6 of the top 15 RBs were 1st round picks and one of those was Thomas Jones, all but given up on before his resurrection.
Here's what you're missing. It takes teams several years sometimes to figure out if the kid is a bust...see Joey Harrington.Would much rather grab a proven, veteran via free agent for a comparable price...or even a seasoned backup with upside like a Schaub or Gerrard.

To each his own...obviously you can hit on a McNabb or Roethlisberger. I just think there are more risk averse plays for a GM.

 

a005511

Footballguy
Remember when P Manning was being panned. I think I remember when they were talking about another QB drafted 2nd by SD who had the strong arm. Now who was that and where is he now.? Gone!!!! :bag:

 

Kleck

Footballguy
Hey stbugs,

Let set up some parameters here so we're on the same page. My contention was that using a pick in the first half of the first round was a bad idea. Do you want to investigate that a little further? Perhaps expand it over a long period of time and look at all the QBs selected that fit that description. Further we could look at all the quarterbacks that fall out of that area. Maybe break it into half rounds?

I don't want to get into a rant. I would much rather agree on some parameters and investigate lots of data instead of looking for some singular data points that back up my ideas.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Why just QB? I think you guys are missing the point. Any top 5 pick is a gamble, period. There are as many busts at other positions, see Blair Thomas, Aundray Bruce, Tony Mandarich, Kijana Carter, Dan Wilkinson, etc. Giving $20-25 million guaranteed to any player, at any position who has not played 1 down in the NFL is risky. Even Reggie Bush is risky, because he will command even more money. He might be a stud, but he might not, but he is risky because he will get paid like SA and LT with no experience.Look even at last year, ....
I would prefer not to look at any particular year, but at a large number of years and data collected over a long period of time. If you believe that fantasy production is any indication of NFL success this may alter your opinion. Its an old article I wrote that correlates fantasy production to draft position.
Your article only references 1999 and 2000, so I am not sure what the numbers are for longer periods of time.Even in 2004, the top 3 QBs were Manning, CPepp and McNabb, all 3 were 1st round picks. Out of the top 15, 7 were first round picks. Back in 2003, was the first year I found that only 5 of the top 15 were first round picks, but 3 of those were in the top 5, including the top 2.

I guess I understand, but even in your article, close to 40% of starters at QB were 1st round picks and as I stated above, there aren't a lot of the later round QBs that were 2nd/3rd round picks that were groomed.

I guess I am just trying to say that if you want to groom a QB of the future, it sure seems like a 1st round pick is the way to go. The Delhommes, Plummers, Greens, Kitnas, Brooks, Hasselbecks, Johnsons, and Maddoxes that have popped into the top 15 recently, were all playing for teams that didn't draft them. Other than Brady, Brees, Bulger and Garcia, all other non-1st round QBs were not groomed by the team that drafted them.

Edit to Add: Made a couple mistakes that kind of messed up my point.

 
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stbugs

Footballguy
Hey stbugs,

Let set up some parameters here so we're on the same page. My contention was that using a pick in the first half of the first round was a bad idea. Do you want to investigate that a little further? Perhaps expand it over a long period of time and look at all the QBs selected that fit that description. Further we could look at all the quarterbacks that fall out of that area. Maybe break it into half rounds?

I don't want to get into a rant. I would much rather agree on some parameters and investigate lots of data instead of looking for some singular data points that back up my ideas.
Absolutely. I will add that I am mainly referring to the 2000 years, since I haven't been playing fantasy that long to really remember who was or wasn't a 1st round pick.Again, what I see is that people diss 1st round QBs, but with Manning, Culpepper, McNabb, Palmer, Eli Manning, McNair, Vick, Leftwich, Carr (just kidding ;) ), Bledsoe, Collins, and maybe others like Big Ben in the future, it seems like there are quite a few 1st round QBs that are in the top 10, top 15 every year.

By the way, the one thing I will completely agree on is that usually, the 2nd QB or the reach in the late 1st rounds typically doesn't work because they get lucky and the teams try to grab a Bledsoe (Mirer) or Manning (Leaf) because the best guy already went.

Also, how about my ideas?

I would much rather agree on some parameters and investigate lots of data instead of looking for some singular data points that back up my ideas.
It doesn't seem fair if you aren;t going to look for data that backs mine up as well! ;)
 
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stbugs

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
completely agree...especially in the first round. 2nd and 3rd round guys are affordable enough to develop.That being said, I love Leinart's potential...I wouldn't draft him, but he really strikes me as a guy that can make it in the Pros because of his decision making ability and poise in the pocket. Young and Cutler...not so much.
Why is the whole 1st round QB thing always brought up so disparagingly?Look at the top 15 QBs last year:

1st round picks: 8, including 5 who were the 1st overall pick

2nd round picks: 2, including Brees who was the first pick in the 2nd round

5th round picks: 1

6th round picks: 2

8th round picks: 1

Undrafted: 1

So 8 out of the top 15 were 1st round picks and that was with Culpepper and McNabb not in the top 15 and both of them were 1st round picks.

Also, just for your reading pleasure, guess how many of the 7 non-first round picks are still with the team that drafted them? Only 2, and one of those, Brees, is soon to be elsewhere.

So, feel free to say you are going to draft a 2nd/3rd round QB and develop them, since only 1 out of the top 15 QBs, Tom Brady, is not a 1st round pick and is actually still with the team that developed him.

By the way in case you think RB is safer, only 6 of the top 15 RBs were 1st round picks and one of those was Thomas Jones, all but given up on before his resurrection.
Here's what you're missing. It takes teams several years sometimes to figure out if the kid is a bust...see Joey Harrington.Would much rather grab a proven, veteran via free agent for a comparable price...or even a seasoned backup with upside like a Schaub or Gerrard.

To each his own...obviously you can hit on a McNabb or Roethlisberger. I just think there are more risk averse plays for a GM.
I don't think I am missing anything in my reply. At first you said you would rather groom a 2nd/3rd round pick and in your last reply you said you would rather grab a proven veteran or a seasoned backup. Those are not the same things.I will agree with you on a seasoned backup or trading for a player as there are 6 examples of top 15 QBs in 2005 that were not on the team that drafted them.

My point was not hitting on a McNabb or Manning or Big Ben, which I think is more likely with a 1st round pick, but that only 2 out of the top 15 QBs in 2005 were a non-1st round pick and played with the team that drafted him. One of those, Brees, was the 1st pick of the 2nd round and it sounds like he is no longer with SD because they want to go with their 4th overall pick in the 1st round as their QB of the future.

 
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Dave Baker

Damn glad to meet you
One thing about selecting a QB in the first round, especially early first round, is that not another position selected can get you fired quicker than messing up with your QB pick.

But is it fool's gold? There's a definite jackpot than can be hit and when you do, your franchise can completely be turned around. But it seems the odds are stacked against it panning out.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
One thing about selecting a QB in the first round, especially early first round, is that not another position selected can get you fired quicker than messing up with your QB pick.

But is it fool's gold?  There's a definite jackpot than can be hit and when you do, your franchise can completely be turned around.  But it seems the odds are stacked against it panning out.
Isn't it worth the risk for a QB, like you said they can turn around the franchise? While some may say it was other folks on the roster, etc., I can think of quite a few QBs taken early in the first round that significantly helped the team (recent history):Aikman, Elway, Marino (I know late 1st), Peyton Manning, Palmer, Bledsoe, McNabb, McNair, Vick, Roethlisberger, Eli Manning ... I am probably forgetting somebody.

While some of these like Palmer and Eli may be too early to tell, I still think that were and will be in the future significant parts of a team making the playoffs.

Is there another position taken early in the first round that you can say has had the same impact in taking a bad/OK team and turning it into a annual playoff contender?

Don't forget, if the Texans take Reggie Bush, they are going to be paying him about the same as the Giants paid Eli or Cincy paid Palmer. Do you think Reggie Bush is going to have the same impact or do you think he will be very good, but until Carr gets better, it won't matter?

 
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Dave Baker

Damn glad to meet you
One thing about selecting a QB in the first round, especially early first round, is that not another position selected can get you fired quicker than messing up with your QB pick.

But is it fool's gold?  There's a definite jackpot than can be hit and when you do, your franchise can completely be turned around.  But it seems the odds are stacked against it panning out.
Isn't it worth the risk for a QB, like you said they can turn around the franchise? While some may say it was other folks on the roster, etc., I can think of quite a few QBs taken early in the first round that significantly helped the team (recent history):Aikman, Elway, Marino (I know late 1st), Peyton Manning, Palmer, Bledsoe, McNabb, McNair, Vick, Roethlisberger, Eli Manning ... I am probably forgetting somebody.

While some of these like Palmer and Eli may be too early to tell, I still think that were and will be in the future significant parts of a team making the playoffs.

Is there another position taken early in the first round that you can say has had the same impact in taking a bad/OK team and turning it into a annual playoff contender?

Don't forget, if the Texans take Reggie Bush, they are going to be paying him about the same as the Giants paid Eli or Cincy paid Palmer. Do you think Reggie Bush is going to have the same impact or do you think he will be very good, but until Carr gets better, it won't matter?
My point was actually that I'd bit very skittish about taking a QB if my job were on the line. It seems like there's nothing safer than taking an O-lineman. But the risk is well worth it at times.As for Reggie Bush, you're asking the wrong guy. I think he is and will be an absolute monster in the NFL. It might not bear out in year one, but Bush is destined for greatness and is worth the first pick overall.

But select a QB in the first 2-3 picks and he doesn't pan out? Pack your bags.

 

Dave Baker

Damn glad to meet you
I should add that passing on greatness can just as quickly get you a ticket home. If I'm Tennessee, I jump on Leinart.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
I should add that passing on greatness can just as quickly get you a ticket home. If I'm Tennessee, I jump on Leinart.
:goodposting: McNair is there for one more year [by his own agents declaration], and Chow knows exactly what Leinart can and can't do.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
One thing about selecting a QB in the first round, especially early first round, is that not another position selected can get you fired quicker than messing up with your QB pick.

But is it fool's gold?  There's a definite jackpot than can be hit and when you do, your franchise can completely be turned around.  But it seems the odds are stacked against it panning out.
Isn't it worth the risk for a QB, like you said they can turn around the franchise? While some may say it was other folks on the roster, etc., I can think of quite a few QBs taken early in the first round that significantly helped the team (recent history):Aikman, Elway, Marino (I know late 1st), Peyton Manning, Palmer, Bledsoe, McNabb, McNair, Vick, Roethlisberger, Eli Manning ... I am probably forgetting somebody.

While some of these like Palmer and Eli may be too early to tell, I still think that were and will be in the future significant parts of a team making the playoffs.

Is there another position taken early in the first round that you can say has had the same impact in taking a bad/OK team and turning it into a annual playoff contender?

Don't forget, if the Texans take Reggie Bush, they are going to be paying him about the same as the Giants paid Eli or Cincy paid Palmer. Do you think Reggie Bush is going to have the same impact or do you think he will be very good, but until Carr gets better, it won't matter?
My point was actually that I'd bit very skittish about taking a QB if my job were on the line. It seems like there's nothing safer than taking an O-lineman. But the risk is well worth it at times.As for Reggie Bush, you're asking the wrong guy. I think he is and will be an absolute monster in the NFL. It might not bear out in year one, but Bush is destined for greatness and is worth the first pick overall.

But select a QB in the first 2-3 picks and he doesn't pan out? Pack your bags.
OK, forget about Reggie Bush. If you think he will be the next coming and lead the Texans to the Super Bowl, then yes you are the wrong guy to ask about that!I was interested in your OL being safer comment. I was interested to look at top 10 (11) picks recently to see if any had more impact than say the top 10 QBs I mentioned above:

2005 - None - Alex Smith #1

2004 - Gallery (#2 overall) - Manning #1, Rivers #4, Big Ben #11 (I know not top 10, but close enough ;) )

2003 - Jordan Gross (#8) - Palmer #1

2002 - Mike Williams (#4), Bryant McKinnie (#7), Levi Jones #10 - Carr #1, Harrington #3

2001 - Leornard Davis (#2) - Vick #1

2000 - Chris Samuels (#3) - None

While you may be correct that a coach won't get fired over a bad OL, if I look from 2000 on, I think I only see one OL (Levi Jones) that has been a good value. Some might say that Chris Samuels is really good, but to be honest, I don't think he is an elite tackle. I don't know alot about Gross/McKinnie, but I haven't heard great things about them at all.

I would say that the top players out of the 2000-2005 drafts from the OL and QBs in terms of difference makers are Roethlisberger, Manning, Palmer, and Vick.

Harrington and Carr have been underwhelming to say the least, but I see more OL busts (Davis, Williams, Gallery) that were #2/#4 overall picks. Rivers is still up in the air and we will find out more about him this year.

Anyway, just thought it was interesting that since 2000, the best OL picked was at #10, and the rest from #2 to #8 overall have to me been OK to bad.

Edit to Add: Forgot about Alex Smith who I think will be a bad pick overall. Even if he becomes decent, the money spent on him is not worth what the 49ers will get. He could prove me wrong as other QBs have had dismal starts and recovered and Smith does not have a whole lot to work with, but that isn't getting a lot better any time soon.

 
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UnknownCoach

Footballguy
I like Leinart and Culter a heck of a lot better than I like last seasons QBs and VY has more physical ability than anybody since Vick.
Leinhart would have been the clear cut number one last year if he had come out. However, last year's draft was considered lacking at the very top. Smith wouldnt have been a top 5 pick in a normal draft I dont think.
That draft was considered weak at the top because guys like Leinart stayed in school. If people don't think Leinart and Young are worthy of top 3 picks, then all of a sudden this draft isn't that strong at the top either. IMO, people are spending a lot of time trying to talk themselves out of two outstanding players. Dumb.
I'm not knocking this year's guys at all. I'm knocking Smith. Just because Smith was the number one last year, doesnt make a better QB worth the pick. Smith isnt relative to this year's draft except for San Fransisco.
 

Kleck

Footballguy
Last 25 years of drafted QBs from DraftHistory.com

Code:
Year	No.	Round	Pick	Player	Name	Team	College2005	1	1	1	1	Alex D. Smith	49ers	Utah  2	1	24	24	Aaron Rodgers	Packers	California  3	1	25	25	Jason Campbell	Redskins	Auburn  4	3	3	67	Charlie Frye	Browns	Akron  5	3	5	69	Andrew Walter	Raiders	Arizona State  6	3	21	85	David Greene	Seahawks	Georgia  7	4	5	106	Kyle Orton	Bears	Purdue  8	4	20	121	Stefan Lefors	Panthers	Louisville  9	5	9	145	Dan Orlovsky	Lions	Connecticut  10	5	16	152	Adrian McPherson	Saints	Florida State  11	6	39	213	Derek Anderson	Ravens	Oregon State  12	7	15	229	James Kilian	Chiefs	Tulsa  13	7	16	230	Matt Cassel	Patriots	USC  14	7	36	250	Ryan Fitzpatrick	Rams	Harvard2004	1	1	1	1	Eli Manning	Chargers	Mississippi  2	1	4	4	Philip Rivers	Giants	North Carolina State  3	1	11	11	Ben Roethlisberger	Steelers	Miami (OH)  4	1	22	22	J.P. Losman	Bills	Tulane  5	3	27	90	Matt Schaub	Falcons	Virginia  6	4	10	106	Luke McCown	Browns	Louisiana Tech  7	5	16	148	Craig Krenzel	Bears	Ohio State  8	6	20	185	Andy Hall	Eagles	Delaware  9	6	22	187	Josh Harris	Ravens	Bowling Green  10	6	28	193	Jim Sorgi	Colts	Wisconsin  11	6	36	201	Jeff Smoker	Rams	Michigan State  12	7	1	202	John Navarre	Cardinals	Michigan  13	7	16	217	Cody Pickett	49ers	Washington  14	7	17	218	Casey Bramlet	Bengals	Wyoming  15	7	24	225	Matt Mauck	Broncos	Louisiana State  16	7	47	248	B.J. Symons	Texans	Texas Tech  17	7	49	250	Bradlee Van Pelt	Broncos	Colorado State2003	1	1	1	1	Carson Palmer	Bengals	USC  2	1	7	7	Byron Leftwich	Jaguars	Marshall  3	1	19	19	Kyle Boller	Ravens	California  4	1	22	22	Rex Grossman	Bears	Florida  5	3	24	88	Dave Ragone	Texans	Louisville  6	3	33	97	Chris Simms	Buccaneers	Texas  7	4	13	110	Seneca Wallace	Seahawks	Iowa State  8	5	28	163	Brian St. Pierre	Steelers	Boston College  9	6	19	192	Drew Henson	Texans	Michigan  10	6	27	200	Brooks Bollinger	Jets	Wisconsin  11	6	28	201	Kliff Kingsbury	Patriots	Texas Tech  12	7	18	232	Gibran Hamdan	Redskins	Indiana  13	7	27	241	Ken Dorsey	49ers	Miami (FL)2002	1	1	1	1	David Carr	Texans	Fresno State  2	1	3	3	Joey Harrington	Lions	Oregon  3	1	32	32	Patrick Ramsey	Redskins	Tulane  4	3	16	81	Josh McCown	Cardinals	Sam Houston State  5	4	10	108	David Garrard	Jaguars	East Carolina  6	4	19	117	Rohan Davey	Patriots	Louisiana State  7	5	2	137	Randy Fasani	Panthers	Stanford  8	5	23	158	Kurt Kittner	Falcons	Illinois  9	5	28	163	Brandon Doman	49ers	Brigham Young  10	5	29	164	Craig Nall	Packers	Northwestern State  11	6	14	186	J.T. O'Sullivan	Saints	California-Davis  12	6	33	205	Steve Bellisari	Rams	Ohio State  13	7	5	216	Seth Burford	Chargers	Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo  14	7	21	232	Jeff Kelly	Seahawks	Southern Mississippi  15	7	24	235	Ronald Curry	Raiders	North Carolina  16	7	25	236	Wes Pate	Ravens	Stephen F. Austin2001	1	1	1	1	Michael Vick	Falcons	Virginia Tech  2	2	1	32	Drew Brees	Chargers	Purdue  3	2	22	53	Quincy Carter	Cowboys	Georgia  4	2	28	59	Marques Tuiasosopo	Raiders	Washington  5	4	11	106	Chris Weinke	Panthers	Florida State  6	4	14	109	Sage Rosenfels	Redskins	Iowa State  7	4	30	125	Jesse Palmer	Giants	Florida  8	5	18	149	Mike McMahon	Lions	Rutgers  9	5	24	155	A.J. Feeley	Eagles	Oregon  10	6	9	172	Josh Booty	Seahawks	Louisiana State  11	6	14	177	Josh Heupel	Dolphins	Oklahoma2000	1	1	18	18	Chad Pennington	Jets	Marshall  2	3	3	65	Giovanni Carmazzi	49ers	Hofstra  3	3	13	75	Chris Redman	Ravens	Louisville  4	5	34	163	Tee Martin	Steelers	Tennessee  5	6	2	168	Marc Bulger	Saints	West Virginia  6	6	17	183	Spergon Wynn	Browns	Southwest Texas State  7	6	33	199	Tom Brady	Patriots	Michigan  8	6	36	202	Todd Husak	Redskins	Stanford  9	6	39	205	JaJuan Seider	Chargers	Florida A&M  10	7	6	212	Tim Rattay	49ers	Louisiana Tech  11	7	8	214	Jarious Jackson	Broncos	Notre Dame  12	7	28	234	Joe Hamilton	Buccaneers	Georgia Tech1999	1	1	1	1	Tim Couch	Browns	Kentucky  2	1	2	2	Donovan McNabb	Eagles	Syracuse  3	1	3	3	Akili Smith	Bengals	Oregon  4	1	11	11	Daunte Culpepper	Vikings	Central Florida  5	1	12	12	Cade McNown	Bears	UCLA  6	2	19	50	Shaun King	Buccaneers	Tulane  7	3	16	77	Brock Huard	Seahawks	Washington  8	4	6	101	Joe Germaine	Rams	Ohio State  9	4	36	131	Aaron Brooks	Packers	Virginia  10	5	18	151	Kevin Daft	Oilers	California-Davis  11	7	21	227	Michael Bishop	Patriots	Kansas State  12	7	33	239	Chris Greisen	Cardinals	Northwest Missouri State  13	7	39	245	Scott Covington	Bengals	Miami (FL)1998	1	1	1	1	Peyton Manning	Colts	Tennessee  2	1	2	2	Ryan Leaf	Chargers	Washington State  3	2	30	60	Charlie Batch	Lions	Eastern Michigan  4	3	25	86	Jonathan Quinn	Jaguars	Middle Tennessee State  5	3	30	91	Brian Griese	Broncos	Michigan  6	6	19	172	John Dutton	Dolphins	Nevada  7	6	34	187	Matt Hasselbeck	Packers	Boston College  8	7	43	232	Moses Moreno	Bears	Colorado State1997	1	1	26	26	Jim Druckenmiller	49ers	Virginia Tech  2	2	12	42	Jake Plummer	Cardinals	Arizona State  3	4	3	99	Danny Wuerffel	Saints	Florida  4	4	14	110	Pat Barnes	Chiefs	California  5	6	8	171	Mike Cherry	Giants	Murray State  6	6	28	191	Chuck Clements	Jets	Houston  7	7	3	204	Tony Graziani	Falcons	Oregon  8	7	6	207	Koy Detmer	Eagles	Colorado  9	7	33	234	Wally Richardson	Ravens	Penn State  10	7	36	237	Tony Corbin	Chargers	Sacramento State  11	7	39	240	Ronnie McAda	Packers	Army1996	1	2	12	42	Tony Banks	Rams	Michigan State  2	3	24	85	Bobby Hoying	Eagles	Ohio State  3	4	5	100	Jeff Lewis	Broncos	Northern Arizona  4	4	35	130	Danny Kanell	Giants	Florida State  5	6	36	203	Spence Fischer	Steelers	Duke  6	6	38	205	Mike Cawley	Colts	James Madison  7	7	29	238	Jon Stark	Ravens	Trinity  8	7	31	240	Kyle Wachholtz	Packers	USC1995	1	1	3	3	Steve McNair	Oilers	Alcorn State  2	1	5	5	Kerry Collins	Panthers	Penn State  3	2	13	45	Todd Collins	Bills	Michigan  4	2	28	60	Kordell Stewart	Steelers	Colorado  5	3	16	80	Stoney Case	Cardinals	New Mexico  6	3	20	84	Eric Zeier	Browns	Georgia  7	4	1	99	Rob Johnson	Jaguars	USC  8	4	13	111	Chad May	Vikings	Kansas State  9	4	21	119	Dave Barr	Eagles	California  10	4	36	134	Steve Stenstrom	Chiefs	Stanford  11	5	26	160	Jay Barker	Packers	Alabama  12	6	20	191	Jerry Colquitt	Panthers	Tennessee  13	6	26	197	Craig Whelihan	Chargers	Pacific  14	7	5	213	John Walsh	Bengals	Brigham Young1994	1	1	3	3	Heath Shuler	Redskins	Tennessee  2	1	6	6	Trent Dilfer	Buccaneers	Fresno State  3	4	8	111	Perry Klein	Falcons	C.W. Post  4	4	13	116	Doug Nussmeier	Saints	Idaho  5	6	17	178	Jim Miller	Steelers	Michigan State  6	7	3	197	Gus Frerotte	Redskins	Tulsa  7	7	4	198	Jay Walker	Patriots	Howard  8	7	5	199	Steve Matthews	Chiefs	Memphis  9	7	14	208	Glenn Foley	Jets	Boston College1993	1	1	1	1	Drew Bledsoe	Patriots	Washington State  2	1	2	2	Rick Mirer	Seahawks	Notre Dame  3	3	2	58	Billy Joe Hobert	Raiders	Washington  4	5	6	118	Mark Brunell	Packers	Washington  5	7	24	192	Gino Torretta	Vikings	Miami (FL)  6	8	20	216	Alex Van Pelt	Steelers	Pittsburgh  7	8	23	219	Elvis Grbac	49ers	Michigan  8	8	26	222	Trent Green	Chargers	Indiana1992s	1	1	0	0	Dave Brown	Giants	Duke1992	1	1	6	6	David Klingler	Bengals	Houston  2	1	25	25	Tommy Maddox	Broncos	UCLA  3	2	12	40	Matt Blundin	Chiefs	Virginia  4	2	18	46	Tony Sacca	Cardinals	Penn State  5	4	2	86	Craig Erickson	Buccaneers	Miami (FL)  6	4	18	102	Casey Weldon	Eagles	Florida State  7	4	23	107	Will Furrer	Bears	Virginia Tech  8	4	28	112	Chris Hakel	Redskins	William & Mary  9	6	26	166	Jeff Blake	Jets	East Carolina  10	8	2	198	Ricky Jones	Rams	Alabama State  11	8	15	211	Kent Graham	Giants	Ohio State  12	8	24	220	Bucky Richardson	Oilers	Texas A&M  13	8	26	222	Mike Pawlawski	Buccaneers	California  14	9	3	227	Brad Johnson	Vikings	Florida State  15	9	4	228	T.J. Rubley	Rams	Tulsa  16	9	6	230	Ty Detmer	Packers	Brigham Young  17	11	16	296	Mark Barsotti	Dolphins	Fresno State  18	12	8	316	Keithen McCant	Browns	Nebraska  19	12	10	318	Cornelius Benton	Steelers	Connecticut  20	12	27	335	Matt Rodgers	Bills	Iowa1991	1	1	16	16	Dan McGwire	Seahawks	San Diego State  2	1	24	24	Todd Marinovich	Raiders	USC  3	2	6	33	Brett Favre	Falcons	Southern Mississippi  4	2	7	34	Browning Nagle	Jets	Louisville  5	4	1	84	Scott Zolak	Patriots	Maryland  6	4	16	99	Donald Hollas	Bengals	Rice  7	4	23	106	Bill Muscrave	Cowboys	Oregon  8	5	20	131	Craig Erickson	Eagles	Miami (FL)  9	7	23	190	Paul Justin	Bears	Arizona State  10	10	10	260	Pat O'Hara	Buccaneers	USC  11	11	6	284	Shawn Moore	Broncos	Virginia  12	12	3	309	Jeff Bridewell	Cardinals	California-Davis  13	12	28	334	Larry Wanke	Giants	John Carroll1990	1	1	1	1	Jeff George	Colts	Illinois  2	1	7	7	Andre Ware	Lions	Houston  3	3	6	59	Tommy Hodson	Patriots	Louisiana State  4	3	10	63	Peter Tom Willis	Bears	Florida State  5	3	17	70	Neil O'Donnell	Steelers	Maryland  6	4	3	84	Troy Taylor	Jets	California  7	4	5	86	Cary Conklin	Redskins	Washington  8	4	12	93	Scott Mitchell	Dolphins	Utah  9	5	26	135	Craig Kupp	Giants	Pacific Lutheran  10	6	1	138	John Friesz	Chargers	Idaho  11	6	19	156	Mike Buck	Saints	Maine  12	8	14	207	Gerry Gdowski	Saints	Nebraska  13	9	22	242	Kirk Baumgartner	Packers	Wisconsin-Stevens Point  14	9	27	247	Todd Ellis	Broncos	South Carolina  15	11	20	296	Clemente Gordon	Browns	Grambling  16	12	3	307	Todd Hammel	Buccaneers	Stephen F. Austin  17	12	7	311	Gene Benhart	Colts	Western Illinois  18	12	8	312	John Gromos	Seahawks	Vanderbilt  19	12	13	317	Major Harris	Raiders	West Virginia  20	12	17	321	Reggie Slack	Oilers	Auburn1989s	1	1	0	0	Steve Walsh	Cowboys	Miami (FL)  2	1	0	0	Timm Rosenbach	Cardinals	Washington State1989	1	1	1	1	Troy Aikman	Cowboys	UCLA  2	2	4	32	Mike Elkins	Chiefs	Wake Forest  3	2	23	51	Billy Joe Tolliver	Chargers	Texas Tech  4	3	18	74	Anthony Dilweg	Packers	Duke  5	3	27	83	Erik Wilhelm	Bengals	Oregon State  6	4	3	87	Jeff Graham	Packers	Long Beach State  7	4	18	102	Jeff Carlson	Rams	Weber State  8	6	1	140	Jeff Francis	Raiders	Tennessee  9	6	2	141	Rodney Peete	Lions	USC  10	7	25	192	Brent Snyder	Bears	Utah State  11	7	28	195	Terrance Jones	Chargers	Tulane  12	8	7	202	Paul Singer	Falcons	Western Illinois  13	10	27	278	Bob Jean	Bengals	New Hampshire  14	11	17	296	Wayne Johnson	Colts	Georgia  15	12	16	323	Steve Taylor	Colts	Nebraska  16	12	18	325	Chuck Hartlieb	Oilers	Iowa1988	1	3	13	68	Tom Tupa	Cardinals	Ohio State  2	3	21	76	Chris Chandler	Colts	Washington  3	6	12	149	Don McPherson	Eagles	Syracuse  4	6	14	151	Scott Secules	Cowboys	Virginia  5	6	22	159	Stan Humphries	Redskins	N.E. Louisiana  6	7	10	175	Mike Perez	Giants	San Jose State  7	7	15	180	Kerwin Bell	Dolphins	Florida  8	10	7	256	Bud Keyes	Packers	Wisconsin  9	10	25	274	Todd Santos	Saints	San Diego State  10	11	4	281	Danny McCoin	Lions	Cincinnati  11	11	5	282	Danny McManus	Chiefs	Florida State  12	11	6	283	David Weber	Raiders	Carroll College  13	12	23	328	Steve Slayden	Browns	Duke1987	1	1	1	1	Vinny Testaverde	Buccaneers	Miami (FL)  2	1	6	6	Kelly Stouffer	Cardinals	Colorado State  3	1	13	13	Chris Miller	Falcons	Oregon  4	1	26	26	Jim Harbaugh	Bears	Michigan  5	3	8	64	Cody Carlson	Oilers	Baylor  6	4	4	88	Mark Vlasic	Chargers	Iowa  7	4	14	98	Rich Gannon	Patriots	Delaware  8	4	26	110	Steve Beuerlein	Raiders	Notre Dame  9	7	12	180	Kevin Sweeney	Cowboys	Fresno State  10	7	18	186	Doug Hudson	Chiefs	Nicholls State  11	8	21	216	Sammy Garza	Seahawks	Texas-El Paso  12	9	9	232	Ken Lambiotte	Eagles	William & Mary  13	10	4	255	Don Majkowski	Packers	Virginia  14	10	24	275	John Paye	49ers	Stanford  15	11	16	295	Brent Pease	Vikings	Montana  16	11	28	307	Dave Walter	Giants	Michigan Tech  17	12	6	313	Mike Shula	Buccaneers	Alabama  18	12	15	322	Jim Karsatos	Dolphins	Ohio State  19	12	20	327	Bill Ransdell	Jets	Kentucky1986	1	1	3	3	Jim Everett	Oilers	Purdue  2	1	12	12	Chuck Long	Lions	Iowa  3	2	20	47	Jack Trudeau	Colts	Illinois  4	3	12	67	Bubby Brister	Steelers	N.E. Louisiana  5	3	16	71	Hugh Millen	Rams	Washington  6	3	17	72	Robbie Bosco	Packers	Brigham Young  7	4	17	99	Doug Gaynor	Bengals	Long Beach State  8	6	8	146	Mark Rypien	Redskins	Washington State  9	6	12	150	Stan Gelbaugh	Cowboys	Maryland  10	7	8	174	Mike Norseth	Browns	Kansas  11	10	25	274	Jeff Wickersham	Dolphins	Louisiana State  12	11	3	280	Chris Hegg	Falcons	N.E. Missouri State  13	11	14	291	David Norrie	Seahawks	UCLA  14	12	7	312	Kent Austin	Cardinals	Mississippi  15	12	8	313	Brian McClure	Bills	Bowling Green  16	12	11	316	Steve Bradley	Bengals	Indiana1985s	1	1	0	0	Bernie Kosar	Browns	Miami (FL)1985	1	2	9	37	Randall Cunningham	Eagles	UNLV  2	3	1	57	Frank Reich	Bills	Maryland  3	6	2	142	Steve Bono	Vikings	UCLA  4	6	3	143	Rusty Hilger	Raiders	Oklahoma State  5	6	28	168	Scott Barry	49ers	California-Davis  6	9	8	232	Steve Calabria	Buccaneers	Colgate  7	9	10	234	Paul Berner	Chargers	Pacific  8	10	17	269	Buddy Funck	Broncos	New Mexico  9	10	25	277	John Conner	Seahawks	Arizona  10	11	5	285	Doug Flutie	Rams	Boston College  11	11	14	294	Joe Shield	Packers	Trinity1984u	1	1	1	1	Steve Young	Buccaneers	Brigham Young  2	1	7	7	Wayne Peace	Bengals	Florida  3	1	10	10	Ken Hobart	Jets	Idaho  4	2	5	33	Steve Smith	Chargers	Michigan  5	2	20	48	Rick Johnson	Rams	Southern Illinois  6	3	8	64	Turner Gill	Jets	Nebraska  7	3	14	70	Walter Lewis	Patriots	Alabama  8	3	17	73	Tim Riordan	Cardinals	Temple  9	3	20	76	Frank Seurer	Seahawks	Kansas  10	3	21	77	John Bond	Browns	Mississippi State1984	1	2	10	38	Boomer Esiason	Bengals	Maryland  2	3	3	59	Jeff Hostetler	Giants	West Virginia  3	3	24	80	Rick McIvor	Cardinals	Texas  4	3	27	83	Jay Schroeder	Redskins	UCLA  5	5	1	113	Steve Pelluer	Cowboys	Washington  6	5	26	138	Dean May	Dolphins	Louisville  7	6	8	148	Ben Bennett	Falcons	Duke  8	6	13	153	Randy Wright	Packers	Wisconsin  9	6	18	158	Terry Nugent	Browns	Colorado State  10	6	20	160	John Witkowski	Lions	Columbia  11	7	23	191	Scott Campbell	Steelers	Purdue  12	9	20	244	Mark Casale	Bears	Montclair State  13	11	1	281	Blair Kiel	Buccaneers	Notre Dame  14	11	17	297	Kyle Mackey	Cardinals	East Texas State  15	12	28	336	Randy Essington	Raiders	Colorado1983	1	1	1	1	John Elway	Colts	Stanford  2	1	7	7	Todd Blackledge	Chiefs	Penn State  3	1	14	14	Jim Kelly	Bills	Miami (FL)  4	1	15	15	Tony Eason	Patriots	Illinois  5	1	24	24	Ken O'Brien	Jets	California-Davis  6	1	27	27	Dan Marino	Dolphins	Pittsburgh  7	5	25	137	Jeff Christensen	Bengals	Eastern Illinois  8	6	22	162	Reggie Collier	Cowboys	Southern Mississippi  9	6	28	168	Babe Laufenberg	Redskins	Indiana  10	8	1	197	Gary Kubiak	Broncos	Texas A&M  11	10	16	267	Tom Ramsey	Patriots	UCLA  12	10	21	272	Bruce Mathison	Chargers	Nebraska  13	11	1	280	Jim Bob Taylor	Colts	Georgia Tech  14	12	4	311	Clete Castper	Rams	Washington State  15	12	5	312	David Mangrum	Eagles	Baylor  16	12	26	333	Scott Lindquist	Raiders	Northern Arizona1982	1	1	4	4	Art Schlichter	Colts	Ohio State  2	1	5	5	Jim McMahon	Bears	Brigham Young  3	2	17	44	Oliver Luck	Oilers	West Virginia  4	2	21	48	Matt Kofler	Bills	San Diego State  5	4	1	84	Mike Pagel	Colts	Arizona State  6	6	10	149	Mike Kelley	Falcons	Georgia Tech  7	6	15	154	Mike Machurek	Lions	Idaho State  8	8	23	218	Luc Tousignant	Bills	Fairmont State  9	9	19	242	Bob Lane	Buccaneers	N.E. Louisiana  10	9	28	251	Bryan Clark	49ers	Michigan State  11	10	10	261	Ron Reeves	Oilers	Texas Tech  12	11	3	282	Steve Michuta	Browns	Grand Valley State  13	11	12	291	Bob Holly	Redskins	Princeton  14	11	17	296	Steve Sandon	Patriots	Northern Iowa  15	12	27	333	Dan Feraday	Bengals	Toronto1981s	1	1	0	0	Dave Wilson	Saints	Illinois1981	1	1	6	6	Rich Campbell	Packers	California  2	2	5	33	Neil Lomax	Cardinals	Portland State  3	4	7	90	Tom Flick	Redskins	Washington  4	4	13	96	Brad Wright	Dolphins	New Mexico  5	4	15	98	Mark Herrmann	Broncos	Purdue  6	8	14	207	Mark Reed	Giants	Morehead State  7	8	17	210	Wade Wilson	Vikings	East Texas State  8	9	7	228	Mike Ford	Buccaneers	Southern Methodist  9	10	7	255	Nickie Hall	Packers	Tulane  10	10	9	257	Phil Kessel	Redskins	Northern Michigan  11	10	12	260	Tim Clifford	Bears	Indiana  12	11	15	291	Jim Jensen	Dolphins	Boston University  13	11	16	292	Rick Trocano	Steelers	Pittsburgh  14	11	19	295	Brian Buckley	Patriots	Harvard  15	12	8	312	Mark O'Connell	Bengals	Ball State  16	12	15	319	Bob Gagliano	Chiefs	Utah State  17	12	18	322	Joe Adams	49ers	Tennessee State
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Liquid Tension

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Were I an NFL owner I don't know I would ever take a qb first day. I'd simply wait for them to develop elsewhere then sign.
This is good in concept and I agree. However, this is the first year I can remember where a QB who one would expect to play a high level is actually available. It is rare when they are. Usually it is a guy like Plummer who has never established a high level.
 

Dave Baker

Damn glad to meet you
OK, forget about Reggie Bush. If you think he will be the next coming and lead the Texans to the Super Bowl, then yes you are the wrong guy to ask about that!
Woah, there, son. I never said nothing 'bout no Super Bowl. One player does not lead a team to a Super Bowl. Not Elway, not Favre, nobody.
 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
I think this every year. People are nuts to be so ga-ga over quarterbacks straight out of college. I can't see myself ever gambling an early first round pick on a QB. Just too much of a gamble.
Were I an NFL owner I don't know I would ever take a qb first day. I'd simply wait for them to develop elsewhere then sign.
This is good in concept and I agree. However, this is the first year I can remember where a QB who one would expect to play a high level is actually available. It is rare when they are. Usually it is a guy like Plummer who has never established a high level.
Or a non-superstar but a solid quarterback. Brad Johnson type guys.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
OK, forget about Reggie Bush. If you think he will be the next coming and lead the Texans to the Super Bowl, then yes you are the wrong guy to ask about that!
Woah, there, son. I never said nothing 'bout no Super Bowl. One player does not lead a team to a Super Bowl. Not Elway, not Favre, nobody.
Just a hyperbole, and yes I agree, put one player against 11, he ain't going to do well. ;) Hadn't looked at this thread in a while, but do you still think OL in the top 10 are safer picks based on the picks since 2000?

To be honest, I think that there are no "safe" picks period. The NFL draft is littered with busts and great picks at virtually every position. I guess I would rather risk picking a stud QB than any other position. I just think if you are going to take that risk, you might as well take the risk on the position that I think can make the biggest impact on your team.

I think you can sign a good to great OL or RB as a free agent (E. James) or trade for one (Portis), but you are never going to see a McNabb, Manning or Palmer on the trading blocks or FA list.

 
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