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Selling late in a keeper league (1 Viewer)

OddibeMcD

Footballguy
In a 12 team league, where you keep 5 and can keep an additional developmental player if he has been played two or fewer times...so, six total keepers. You lose the round that you kept the player in. You can't keep FA moves. You receive one win for finishing in the top 6 in points for the week and one win from the H2H matchup

Trade deadline is when you are out of playoff contention. Rosters lock before the week's games, so you cannot trade at 11:30 Monday night.

The division sits at:

15-9

13-10-1

13-10-1

12-12

8-16

7-17

I am one of the 13-10-1 teams. I hold a tiebreaker over the other 13-10-1 team. However, my team was not as good as the team leading the division, not as good as the team at 12-12 and maybe as good as the other 13-10-1 team. I had been saddled with high draft round, older players.

Even though I had a pretty good shot to make the playoffs, I felt like I would probably be one and done. So, even with the playoffs looming, I cut bait.

Went from a starting roster of:

P. Manning

Campbell

Westbrook

Lewis

Benson

Megatron

Walter

To a current starting roster of:

Campbell

Sorgi

Perry

Jacob Hester

Walter

Holmes

Mark Clayton

Now, I still may make the playoffs. I am not going to win, but another team has to win and finish top 6 to beat me out. So, if I make the playoffs, I basically give another team a first round bye.

While I am pleased of the moves I have made, I also wonder if it was in "the spirit of the game." If this type of fire sale happened in your league would you be OK with it or PO'd?

 
You traded Calvin in a keeper? ;)
I didn't want this to be a rate my team...how did I do, but yeah, I did. He was a first round pick. He has to be kept with a first round pick. I traded him for a first round pick. He probably won't be kept and will be able to be redrafted. I have three first rounders now, pretty good chance that if I wanted him, I would be able to redraft him.
 
Ya...seems kinda lame to me. Your rules allow it, but, you basically dumped your whole team. If you don't think jettisoning an entire team disrupts a dynasty league, then by all means, go for it.

I sure wouldn't like it and would lobby to set the trading deadline MUCH sooner. A hard cutoff date before most playoff spots are filled. Torpedoing a dynasty league is a quick way to have owners leave, IMHO.

 
You traded Calvin in a keeper? :goodposting:
I didn't want this to be a rate my team...how did I do, but yeah, I did. He was a first round pick. He has to be kept with a first round pick. I traded him for a first round pick. He probably won't be kept and will be able to be redrafted. I have three first rounders now, pretty good chance that if I wanted him, I would be able to redraft him.
Oh, OK. Now to answer your question. I don't think it's lame, if you are putting yourself in a better position for the future. All the other owners had the same opportunity to acquire the services of your cast-offs, correct? Would I do it if I had a legit shot to make the playoffs? NO.
 
You traded Calvin in a keeper? :goodposting:
I didn't want this to be a rate my team...how did I do, but yeah, I did. He was a first round pick. He has to be kept with a first round pick. I traded him for a first round pick. He probably won't be kept and will be able to be redrafted. I have three first rounders now, pretty good chance that if I wanted him, I would be able to redraft him.
Calvin Johnson won't be kept?
 
OddibeMcD said:
I am one of the 13-10-1 teams. I hold a tiebreaker over the other 13-10-1 team. However, my team was not as good as the team leading the division, not as good as the team at 12-12 and maybe as good as the other 13-10-1 team. I had been saddled with high draft round, older players.

Even though I had a pretty good shot to make the playoffs, I felt like I would probably be one and done. So, even with the playoffs looming, I cut bait.
Yup. I'd ban you from my league with just this bit of information right here.
 
really no different than trading players for picks in most formats. Not a real problem, as long as the trades were fair and you didn't unreasonably limit your trading partners.

 
Not sure what I dislike the most... your crappy league rules or your crappy approach to the game.

I've gone into the play-offs with the best team in the league and got bounced. I've also squeaked in and got on a roll for the championship. No way would I consider what you did.

I slightly vomited in my mouth reading it though...

 
I wouldn't be pissed if I was in your division. You should have traded FOR a few player upgrades if you weren't happy with your team.

My league would hammer you for it and my commish would keep an eye on you for the future integrity of the league.

Most dynasty owners would tell you to play to win now.

 
Who are you worried about screwing over? It seems like anyone else in contention had access to the players you were selling off, so no problem there. I wonder how viable of a move it will be for you though. There are few, if any, keepable players left in that starting lineup and even though you have three first round picks next year, will you actually be able to retain all three for several years?

I do agree that the trading deadline should be bumped up, as this sort of move may violate "the spirit of the rules."

 
Who are you worried about screwing over? It seems like anyone else in contention had access to the players you were selling off, so no problem there. I wonder how viable of a move it will be for you though. There are few, if any, keepable players left in that starting lineup and even though you have three first round picks next year, will you actually be able to retain all three for several years?I do agree that the trading deadline should be bumped up, as this sort of move may violate "the spirit of the rules."
What rules are you talking about? The rules are that there is a trade deadline when you are out of the playoffs and you have to start the best lineup possible. After my dump, this is the best team possible. I am inside the spirit of the rules.
 
At the risk of vomiting in my mouth again... what did you gain with this... a bettter shot at missing the play-offs? What does that translate to, a mid first draft round pick? So, your strategy is to (intentionally) miss the playoffs to draft around #6 rather than make the play-offs (and possibly win the league) and lose and end up with the say, 9th or 10th, pick?

What is the end game here? Constant mediocrity?

 
Most dynasty owners would tell you to play to win now.
Maybe, but the leagues I'm in have a good mix of owners playing for the future and those playing for now.
I am one of the 13-10-1 teams. I hold a tiebreaker over the other 13-10-1 team. However, my team was not as good as the team leading the division, not as good as the team at 12-12 and maybe as good as the other 13-10-1 team. I had been saddled with high draft round, older players.

Even though I had a pretty good shot to make the playoffs, I felt like I would probably be one and done. So, even with the playoffs looming, I cut bait.
Yup. I'd ban you from my league with just this bit of information right here.
Why? Just because he might make the playoffs doesn't mean he shouldn't plan for the future. How far do you take your position here? In my "main league", I'm borderline for the playoffs despite having one of the best teams (3rd most points out of 32 teams) and I dealt Terrell Owens a couple weeks back for two 1st round picks (probably the equivalent of picks 11 and 16). Should I be booted from the league?

 
Went from a starting roster of:

P. Manning

Campbell

Westbrook

Lewis

Benson

Megatron

Walter

To a current starting roster of:

Campbell

Sorgi

Perry

Jacob Hester

Walter

Holmes

Mark Clayton

A few questions:

1) Why did you get rid of Peyton, Westy, and CJ2? Only one of them would've been used as your 1st rounder in 2009, right? Couldn't you have kept 2 of them, costing you only a 2nd and 3rd rounder? I'm confused

2) So, now you will have 4 1st round picks in 2009? How many of these guys will you be able to keep in 2010?

3) What round would Walter have cost you to keep him? He seems like a great option for a 2009 keeper.

4) Who do you plan on keeping now, and what round are they each going to cost you?

 
Went from a starting roster of:

P. Manning

Campbell

Westbrook

Lewis

Benson

Megatron

Walter

To a current starting roster of:

Campbell

Sorgi

Perry

Jacob Hester

Walter

Holmes

Mark Clayton

A few questions:

1) Why did you get rid of Peyton, Westy, and CJ2? Only one of them would've been used as your 1st rounder in 2009, right? Couldn't you have kept 2 of them, costing you only a 2nd and 3rd rounder? I'm confused

2) So, now you will have 4 1st round picks in 2009? How many of these guys will you be able to keep in 2010?

3) What round would Walter have cost you to keep him? He seems like a great option for a 2009 keeper.

4) Who do you plan on keeping now, and what round are they each going to cost you?
Great questions, except he still has Walter - now he's his #1 Depending on the cost, Holmes could be a valuable asset, but I suspect he was drafted fairly high.

I don't like his moves, but I see no issue with the premise.

 
Went from a starting roster of:

P. Manning

Campbell

Westbrook

Lewis

Benson

Megatron

Walter

To a current starting roster of:

Campbell

Sorgi

Perry

Jacob Hester

Walter

Holmes

Mark Clayton

A few questions:

1) Why did you get rid of Peyton, Westy, and CJ2? Only one of them would've been used as your 1st rounder in 2009, right? Couldn't you have kept 2 of them, costing you only a 2nd and 3rd rounder? I'm confused

2) So, now you will have 4 1st round picks in 2009? How many of these guys will you be able to keep in 2010?

3) What round would Walter have cost you to keep him? He seems like a great option for a 2009 keeper.

4) Who do you plan on keeping now, and what round are they each going to cost you?
Great questions, except he still has Walter - now he's his #1 Depending on the cost, Holmes could be a valuable asset, but I suspect he was drafted fairly high.

I don't like his moves, but I see no issue with the premise.
Do'h!
 
Are people allowed to run their dynasty teams the way they want or not? For those who don't like it...are teams expected to always "try to win now" as opposed to building for the future? I thought dynasty was about building your team the way you want. This guy is looking long-term.

Personally, I don't care for his approach. If you have the playoffs in hand, you go for the title. You're not a good enough handicapper to be sure you'd be one-and-done. Anything can happen. You might have just cost yourself a championship. The guy with Barber and Boldin would look unstoppable...but Thursday they were pretty mediocre. A hypothetical powerhouse like that can be beaten, especially this week.

But your fear has opened doors for other teams to win this year, and you only have a chance of improving your team from what you had. But it's YOUR team. As long as you honestly believe you're doing what's best, I don't see how anyone could really be that upset or what you out of the league or anything like that.

 
As a Monday update: I did catch a fair amount of crap for it, especially after Westbrook went silly on Thursday. I will make the playoffs as the two seed. Clayton alone was enough to beat the team I was playing. There is no way that I would have won the division.As for some of the questions in the thread:

At the risk of vomiting in my mouth again... what did you gain with this... a bettter shot at missing the play-offs? What does that translate to, a mid first draft round pick? So, your strategy is to (intentionally) miss the playoffs to draft around #6 rather than make the play-offs (and possibly win the league) and lose and end up with the say, 9th or 10th, pick?What is the end game here? Constant mediocrity?
I had constant mediocrity. Since we converted this into a keeper league, I have lost in the SB twice, placed third once, lost in the first round once and just missed the playoffs. Originally, there was only one or two people picking in the first round (because everyone else used their first rounder to keep a player)...now that older players have been thrown back into the pool, seven or eight people have first round picks. I couldn't enhance my team enough to get over the hump when I didn't pick until 20 players were off the board. As it stands now, I will probably have somewhere around the fifth, seventh and ninth picks overall.
1) Why did you get rid of Peyton, Westy, and CJ2? Only one of them would've been used as your 1st rounder in 2009, right? Couldn't you have kept 2 of them, costing you only a 2nd and 3rd rounder? I'm confused2) So, now you will have 4 1st round picks in 2009? How many of these guys will you be able to keep in 2010?3) What round would Walter have cost you to keep him? He seems like a great option for a 2009 keeper.4) Who do you plan on keeping now, and what round are they each going to cost you?
1) Peyton and CJ2 were both first rounders. I could have kept one of them. Westy was a 2nd. I could have kept him. The downside to this is that I wouldn't have a draft pick until the third round and 20 players or so would have already been drafted.2) I have three 2009 first round picks. I could keep one of them, but the hope is that I don't have to and can keep the first round pick free to redraft and keep players in lower rounds.3) Still have Walter (as noted above) and plan on keeping him. He will be an eleventh rounder4) As of now, I plan on keeping Flacco-5, Campbell-10, Walter-11, Leon Washington-12, Holmes-15 and Clayton-17. These are not great keepers by any stretch of the imagination, but I will be able to draft good players in the first round. Even more important, I have higher picks now that I can use to draft upside guys without risking hurting my team's starting lineup.
But your fear has opened doors for other teams to win this year, and you only have a chance of improving your team from what you had. But it's YOUR team. As long as you honestly believe you're doing what's best, I don't see how anyone could really be that upset or what you out of the league or anything like that.
And this is the crux of the question. The moves may have had an impact, but not in the intended manner. The team that received Manning sat Delhomme for him. This placed the outcome of his game in doubt. The team that received Johnson sat Berrian, this kept him from possibly winning and making the playoffs. If Andre Johnson doesn't score 9 points tonight, Calvin Johnson team will be out of the playoffs. The team that received Westbrook would probably have won anyway and the fourth place team in that division lost. I am/was worried that the integrity of the league would be damaged by my moves, not so much if they were right for me. It looks like there may be a different result, but only because my former players suck.
 
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I don't see a problem with it. As long as you don't mind someone else doing it next year when you're in the playoffs.

 
If you want to do a firesale but you also would like to limit the grumbling about it and the impact on the league... making the entire league aware IN ADVANCE that you're looking to move most all of your players for picks is a good way to approach it.

That way every team actually does have an equal chance at the players, compared to if you send out a few feelers to just the teams you think are most likely to want your players, and then consumate a trade without the other teams being aware. Few people would expect a playoff bound team to dump their roster like this.

 
OddibeMcD said:
And this is the crux of the question. The moves may have had an impact, but not in the intended manner. The team that received Manning sat Delhomme for him. This placed the outcome of his game in doubt. The team that received Johnson sat Berrian, this kept him from possibly winning and making the playoffs. If Andre Johnson doesn't score 9 points tonight, Calvin Johnson team will be out of the playoffs. The team that received Westbrook would probably have won anyway and the fourth place team in that division lost. I am/was worried that the integrity of the league would be damaged by my moves, not so much if they were right for me. It looks like there may be a different result, but only because my former players suck.
First off, my guess is the the load of crap you receive is more out of frustration from other teams at not being aware of the availability of your key players. As GregR says.... let the entire league know your intentions of a Fire Sale and that you are willing to take package offers and who is available. The impact the deal(s) made on the other team's playoff hopes are not relevent here. You are not responsible for the other teams line-up so it is their issue. As for the manuever itself.... I believe you are within the guidelines you have in your league. Selling valuable players for other value (picks) can be a major shock to some in dynasty or keeper leagues, but if your goal was to help you next year and beyond, they you have to capitalize on those picks to make the move a reality. It is not a sure thing. You are gambling at who is available and you ability to pick the value at draft time.
 
I Cant say I disagree with your intent .. your team , do what you want as long as you are not tanking or colluding.

But I do disagree with your thought process...Starting 2009 with Manning/Megaton and Westy as your 1/2 rders would not have been a bad thing.

Who do you suspect would be there with your first 3 picks ..??

 
I guess I'm missing some piece of the strategy here. 3 1sts in a 2009 draft in this format are going to be slightly better than your original keepers. The downside is that for 2010 you're in deep poo if you actually do hit on those 1st. You can only keep 1 of them for 2010, correct? Or are you going to continue this cycle over and over? Just keep selling those good players to teams without good 1st-round-value keepers as you near the playoffs. /shrug.

As has been said, to each his own. I'll play to make the playoffs and see what happens with the best team I can field in a given season.

 
I am one of the 13-10-1 teams. I hold a tiebreaker over the other 13-10-1 team. However, my team was not as good as the team leading the division, not as good as the team at 12-12 and maybe as good as the other 13-10-1 team. I had been saddled with high draft round, older players.

Even though I had a pretty good shot to make the playoffs, I felt like I would probably be one and done. So, even with the playoffs looming, I cut bait.
Yup. I'd ban you from my league with just this bit of information right here.
Trading for the future in a keeper league? FOR SHAME!What difference does it make if he was making the playoffs or not? If he doesn't think he's got a championship team why can't he start building for next year?

 
I guess I'm missing some piece of the strategy here. 3 1sts in a 2009 draft in this format are going to be slightly better than your original keepers. The downside is that for 2010 you're in deep poo if you actually do hit on those 1st. You can only keep 1 of them for 2010, correct? Or are you going to continue this cycle over and over? Just keep selling those good players to teams without good 1st-round-value keepers as you near the playoffs. /shrug.As has been said, to each his own. I'll play to make the playoffs and see what happens with the best team I can field in a given season.
My point exactly. What is the end game? Toss in the towel with one of the better records in the league because you don't have the sack to manage your play-off team? Weird things happen in the NFL (witness Burress)... a good waiver pickup, a little luck, who knows?Not to mention the league disruption as these players are dumped. Horrible precedent. And for an edge in next years draft? No guarantees there.
 
I Cant say I disagree with your intent .. your team , do what you want as long as you are not tanking or colluding.But I do disagree with your thought process...Starting 2009 with Manning/Megaton and Westy as your 1/2 rders would not have been a bad thing.Who do you suspect would be there with your first 3 picks ..??
I think this qualifies as tanking.
 
You sir are that one owner in every league that everyone jokes about behind your back but talks trade with constantly.

 
I guess I'm missing some piece of the strategy here. 3 1sts in a 2009 draft in this format are going to be slightly better than your original keepers. The downside is that for 2010 you're in deep poo if you actually do hit on those 1st. You can only keep 1 of them for 2010, correct? Or are you going to continue this cycle over and over? Just keep selling those good players to teams without good 1st-round-value keepers as you near the playoffs. /shrug.As has been said, to each his own. I'll play to make the playoffs and see what happens with the best team I can field in a given season.
My point exactly. What is the end game? Toss in the towel with one of the better records in the league because you don't have the sack to manage your play-off team? Weird things happen in the NFL (witness Burress)... a good waiver pickup, a little luck, who knows?Not to mention the league disruption as these players are dumped. Horrible precedent. And for an edge in next years draft? No guarantees there.
No more waiver moves. Only have 5 FA moves for the year, my last was used on Lorenzo Booker. Improving my team via the WW was not an option. I tried improving. I had a deal worked out for Colston, but the other owner did not accept before he was out of playoff contention, so the deal could not go through. Tried the Warner owner to improve QB #2 spot, no reply. The team I had would have been the team I had to use for the entire season.These offers were open to all. Any person who did not want to see a rival improve had the option to beat the current offer. No one did. I didn't only influence certain teams, the On-The-Block update was sent to all.
You sir are that one owner in every league that everyone jokes about behind your back but talks trade with constantly.
Doubtful. As posted above, I have had a pretty good run with my now-liquidated core. This year I have made one other trade...sending a 15th and Rackers to receive a 17th, Elam and Bironas. I wish there were constant trade talks. I am generally good for one or two trades a year.
 
When did you make the trades? That makes a big difference IMO.

If you made them recently though, then that's the league's fault for not putting a trade deadline in. Ours was 3 weeks ago.

 
When did you make the trades? That makes a big difference IMO.If you made them recently though, then that's the league's fault for not putting a trade deadline in. Ours was 3 weeks ago.
I made them last Tuesday and Wednesday, right before the Thanksgiving day games. Our trade deadline is when a team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. There are always teams that are five games back with six to play that sell, there had not been one where a team had a good shot/was going to make the playoffs that sold. This is why I was curious. If selling late, with a playoff spot in hand, is unethical, even when the trades improve your team moving forward.
 

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