Serena and Sexism (1 Viewer)

[The General]

This is reminding me of the slutty dressed women who gets raped.  On one side you have people saying rape is wrong and on the other side people saying she is wrong to dress like that.
 

Probably can pick a better analogy.

 

[toshiba]

This is reminding me of the slutty dressed women who gets raped.  On one side you have people saying rape is wrong and on the other side people saying she is wrong to dress like that.
 

Probably can pick a better analogy.

Probably, but this was the one I chose.  

 

[zoonation]

Both times for using much more vulgar language than this.

I don’t think hanging your hat on vulgarity carries much water.  She called the chair umpire a liar and a thief.  A complete violation of the applicable rule and extremely demeaning.   

Mid rather have someone call me a ####### ##### than a liar and a thief. 

 

[toshiba]

Both times for using much more vulgar language than this.

I don’t think ha going your hat on vulgarity carries much water.  She called the chair umpire a liar and a thief.  A complete violation of the applicable rule and extremely demeaning.   

Mid rather have someone call me a ####### ##### than a liar and a thief. 

That doesn't mean thief is vulgar

 

[zoonation]

That doesn't mean thief is vulgar

The test isnt vulgarity. 

 

[toshiba]

That doesn't mean thief is vulgar

The test isnt vulgarity. 

Agreed it obviously is man or woman 

 

[zoonation]

Agreed it obviously is man or woman 

Except that there are several examples Of men getting fined for abusive behaviour.  I’m not saying they don’t get away with it more.  They very well might.  

I just found serena’s behaviour embarrassing and not the greatest platform from which to play the martyr card.  She also ruined the biggest moment of young Osaka’s career, regardless of how she tried to save it when it was way, way too late. 

 

[toshiba]

Agreed it obviously is man or woman 

Except that there are several examples Of men getting fined for abusive behaviour.  I’m not saying they don’t get away with it more.  They very well might.  

I just found serena’s behaviour embarrassing and not the greatest platform from which to play the martyr card.  She also ruined the biggest moment of young Osaka’s career, regardless of how she tried to save it when it was way, way too late. 

Yes Serena is a pretty bad spokesperson, but that doesn't mean sexism wasn't invovled.

 

[zoonation]

Yes Serena is a pretty bad spokesperson, but that doesn't mean sexism wasn't invovled.

It may have been, but I do t find the evidence compelling at all.  She was flat out abusive in a way you only really see from Kyrigos, and he gets penalized all the time. 

The coaching warning was a bit harsh, but this ump has been harsh with questionable decisions in both Nadal and Djoker matches too.  

The racket smashing?  No brainer. 

The verbal abuse?  No brainer. 

She made her bed imo.  

 

[toshiba]

Yes Serena is a pretty bad spokesperson, but that doesn't mean sexism wasn't invovled.

It may have been, but I do t find the evidence compelling at all.  She was flat out abusive in a way you only really see from Kyrigos, and he gets penalized all the time.

That is a completely reasonable point.  I am not saying sexism was involved, some here are just calling names to people who think it might be sexism.  I am glad you are discussing it.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Some of the clickbait stories on this are pretty ridiculous. Is a perfect topic for them - has elements of race, sexism, very known figure.

Yep.  I don't care about tennis at all and I don't care about Serena Williams, but I'm interested in this story because of the race/sex/fame angle.  I know that's dumb, but I can't help myself.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is reminding me of the slutty dressed women who gets raped.  On one side you have people saying rape is wrong and on the other side people saying she is wrong to dress like that.
 

I'm also here for overreactions like this, which need to go straight into my veins.

 

[parasaurolophus]

a statement about an official, opponent, sponsor, spectator or other person that implies dishonesty or is derogatory, insulting or otherwise abusive.

 

[Henry Ford]

Probably why he got a stiffer penalty then huh? 

Also, at least one of those times the tennis world was up in arms.

 

[jiffy]

CBS news: what happened to Serena is "the grossest example of sexism yet."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/serena-williams-u-s-open-loss-may-be-the-grossest-example-of-sports-sexism-yet/

NBC News: Serena Williams' penalties spark debate about sexism:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/serena-williams-u-s-open-penalties-spark-debate-over-sexism-n907921

So you can see, a whole lot of people really do care about this. 

Of course the MSM is going to "care" about this.  Just helps pushing some of their agenda.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Also, at least one of those times the tennis world was up in arms.

I think one time the umpire skipped a step and i think that is what they got up in arms about. But it was a long time ago, might be remembering that wrong. 

 

[The General]

Yep.  I don't care about tennis at all and I don't care about Serena Williams, but I'm interested in this story because of the race/sex/fame angle.  I know that's dumb, but I can't help myself.

Enjoy

The bull#### in this one runs deep

 

[Henry Ford]

It may have been, but I do t find the evidence compelling at all.  She was flat out abusive in a way you only really see from Kyrigos, and he gets penalized all the time. 

The coaching warning was a bit harsh, but this ump has been harsh with questionable decisions in both Nadal and Djoker matches too.  

The racket smashing?  No brainer. 

The verbal abuse?  No brainer. 

She made her bed imo.  

It’s certainly a reasonable perspective.  I haven’t decided if the other is yet, still trying to get background.  Sounds like this same guy dinged Venus two years ago on the coaching issue. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I think one time the umpire skipped a step and i think that is what they got up in arms about. But it was a long time ago, might be remembering that wrong. 

Skipped a step that could have been taken.  I believe he decided that “f u” allowed him to go straight to a disqualification. And it’s within the rules. 

 

[toshiba]

This is reminding me of the slutty dressed women who gets raped.  On one side you have people saying rape is wrong and on the other side people saying she is wrong to dress like that.
 

I'm also here for overreactions like this, which need to go straight into my veins.

Fair enough, I apologize!

 

[Henry Ford]

Fair enough, I apologize!

You’ll never make it tennis like that, buddy. 

 

[toshiba]

Fair enough, I apologize!

You’ll never make it tennis like that, buddy. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I think coaching should be allowed in tennis.

I think Serena was treated appropriately given her actions.

Warning on the coaching - kind of like calling a touch foul, but it was a violation, the coach admitted as much on ESPN after the match, and it was simply a warning.  Change the rule.

Broken racquet - nothing sexist about this - she broke her racquet - 2nd violation.  Whether she agreed with the first violation or not - she knew where she stood.  She broke her racquet - its a violation man or woman.

Verbal abuse - Serena abused the chair umpire.  Period.  She let the first two violations get to her, and would not shut up.  She lost control, not the chair umpire.

She was whining afterwards, and she is still whining.  Let it go.

Agree with all of this.  Especially the first part which has been a huge issue for me with tennis and golf.  It seems stupid to me that they can’t have someone help them during the competition (as long as it’s not disruptive to other players or the timing of the match/event).

As for the other - we all know women are treated differently all the time but this is a horrible example - she deserved exactly what she got IMO.  Whether the guy has been uneven here kind of misses the point IMO.  He should always give the penalty he did to all players.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Fair enough, I apologize!

No need.  Just giving you a very slightly hard time.

 

[Henry Ford]

No need.  Just giving you a very slightly hard time.

That’s going to cost you a point, missy. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I always feel like umps who act like this are the guy running detention in Breakfast Club. 

“You just bought yourself another Saturday, mister!”

 

[parasaurolophus]

I always feel like umps who act like this are the guy running detention in Breakfast Club. 

“You just bought yourself another Saturday, mister!”

Is that the movie where Judd Nelson sexually assaults Molly Ringwald?

 

[Henry Ford]

Is that the movie where Judd Nelson sexually assaults Molly Ringwald?

It is.  And she falls in love. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Can we get a ranking on where being called stupid fits on the scale?

Is that better or worse than being called a thief and a liar? 

 

[Henry Ford]

Can we get a ranking on where being called stupid fits on the scale?

Is that better or worse than being called a thief and a liar? 

Probably depends on if it’s true.  If the person is stupid it’s really bad. 

 

[Short Corner]

Well, if this specific situation was something behind closed doors or needed to be investigated, you would have a point. Her behavior was on full display, and this conversation is just a deflection of that. 

And yet you clicked on the thread.

 

[Henry Ford]

We can all agree that there is sexism in tennis, right?

I mean, if nothing else she's probably a touch on edge after the outfit fiasco at the French Open. 

 

[Short Corner]

That is a completely reasonable point.  I am not saying sexism was involved, some here are just calling names to people who think it might be sexism.  I am glad you are discussing it.  

So you are making these horrible arguments because FC42 hurt your feelings?

 

[tonydead]

Never seen one person be so wrong so many times in one thread. Ooof Toshiba. 

 

[Short Corner]

Skipped a step that could have been taken.  I believe he decided that “f u” allowed him to go straight to a disqualification. And it’s within the rules. 

Actually the rules changed that year eliminating the third step altogether (no game forfeiture).  It was the first tonight of the new year and he claimed ignorance

 

[timschochet]

We can all agree that there is sexism 

There are people in this sub forum who will not acknowledge either sexism or racism in any situation ever. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge of sexism or racism is made (unless it’s racism against white people somehow) they can be depended upon to challenge it. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

We can all agree that there is sexism in tennis, right?

I mean, if nothing else she's probably a touch on edge after the outfit fiasco at the French Open. 

Alize Cornet situation was a good example of it. I dont consider it any kind of major injustice though. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

There are people in this sub forum who will not acknowledge either sexism or racism in any situation ever. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge of sexism or racism is made (unless it’s racism against white people somehow) they can be depended upon to challenge it. 

That's because the actual examples pretty much never get brought up in this sub forum.

Did you start a thread about the sexism that happened earlier at the US open?

Look how many pages there were on the starbucks incident. Was there even a mention of the bus driver that admitted he drove past a passenger because he was black and it was on video and the guy was immediately fired for it? 

 

[tonydead]

There are people in this sub forum who will not acknowledge either sexism or racism in any situation ever. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge of sexism or racism is made (unless it’s racism against white people somehow) they can be depended upon to challenge it. 

There are also people in this sub forum who see sexism and racism in every situation. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge........

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

There are people in this sub forum who will not acknowledge either sexism or racism in any situation ever. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge of sexism or racism is made (unless it’s racism against white people somehow) they can be depended upon to challenge it. 

Go ahead and convince us this is sexism.  

And props you made it to page 4 before using the word racism.  I honestly thought you wouldn't make it off the first page. 

 

[timschochet]

Go ahead and convince us this is sexism.  

And props you made it to page 4 before using the word racism.  I honestly thought you wouldn't make it off the first page. 

First, I don’t think there was any racism in this particular story. I was making a larger point. 

Second, I’m not going to try and convince you that this story is sexism because I myself am not convinced. As I wrote before I don’t know. I’ve already stated the arguments I found compelling from both sides. 

But I do believe that sexism continues to be a major issue in our society, just like racism does. If this story is a reason for people to discuss the larger issue, then that’s a good thing IMO. 

 

[Boston]

First, I don’t think there was any racism in this particular story. I was making a larger point. 

Second, I’m not going to try and convince you that this story is sexism because I myself am not convinced. As I wrote before I don’t know. I’ve already stated the arguments I found compelling from both sides. 

But I do believe that sexism continues to be a major issue in our society, just like racism does. If this story is a reason for people to discuss the larger issue, then that’s a good thing IMO. 

If you are trying to convince people sexism is a major issue wouldn't you want to use an example where it actually happened...call me naïve but I think that would reinforce your premise a lot better...

 

[toshiba]

That is a completely reasonable point.  I am not saying sexism was involved, some here are just calling names to people who think it might be sexism.  I am glad you are discussing it.  

So you are making these horrible arguments because FC42 hurt your feelings?

wat

 

[Henry Ford]

First, I don’t think there was any racism in this particular story. I was making a larger point. 

Second, I’m not going to try and convince you that this story is sexism because I myself am not convinced. As I wrote before I don’t know. I’ve already stated the arguments I found compelling from both sides. 

But I do believe that sexism continues to be a major issue in our society, just like racism does. If this story is a reason for people to discuss the larger issue, then that’s a good thing IMO. 

I’m not convinced that there was racism here, but I’m also not going to dismiss it out of hand. It’s not like there’s no precedent for black people being seen as more aggressive or out of hand doing the same things white people do.  But I certainly can’t say it did have anything to do with it here. 

 

[unckeyherb]

There are people in this sub forum who will not acknowledge either sexism or racism in any situation ever. Whatever the circumstances, if a charge of sexism or racism is made (unless it’s racism against white people somehow) they can be depended upon to challenge it. 

Sexism and racism exist.  This is a poor example.  Some people in this forum acknowledge sexism and racism when it doesn’t exist.  Whatever the charges, the default position is racism or sexism or any other ism.  Starting at the assumption of racism or sexism, and working your way back is always the best policy.  Right?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

wat

He asked if you were making these horrible arguments because FC42 hurt your feelings.

 

[unckeyherb]

I’m not convinced that there was no racism here, but I’m also not going to dismiss it out of hand. It’s not like there’s no precedent for black people being seen as more aggressive or out of hand doing the same things white people do.  But I certainly can’t say it did have anything to do with it here. 

Or the simpler version....there was no racism here.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I’m not convinced that there was no racism here, but I’m also not going to dismiss it out of hand. It’s not like there’s no precedent for black people being seen as more aggressive or out of hand doing the same things white people do.  But I certainly can’t say it did have anything to do with it here. 

LOL everything that happens to a black person isn't racism.  

 

[Henry Ford]

Or the simpler version....there was no racism here.  

That’s certainly possible. Perhaps likely. I don’t know much about the parties. 

 

[Henry Ford]

LOL everything that happens to a black person isn't racism.  

I didn’t say it was. I didn’t even say this thing was.  In fact, I said (and I mistyped and edited) I’m not convinced racism had anything at all to do with this. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to just say “well it didn’t”.  I don’t really have an opinion on whether or not it did.