Setting up a new IDP Auction League (1 Viewer)

[Smoky McAshtray]

Hey guys, I'm new here to the FBguys forum and am in the process of setting up a new league for next season. I've been commish of a successful PPR league with friends and family (including a few wives, who have ironically won the last 2 championships) for the past 4 years, and after some prodding, I've convinced about half of the owners to take the plunge into something a little more serious and strategic. As such, my co-commish and I are getting an early start on setting up an auction based 12 team IDP league for next season, and since this is our first foray into the world of both auctions and IDP's, I'm looking for some expert advice on some of the details that have come up in the creation process. Below is a section from the bylaws (which are currently a work in progress) which outlines rosters and scoring. After that I've got quite a few questions that hopefully some here can provide some insight on.

Auction budget is $400, with a $100 Free Agent Acquisition Budget once the season starts.

Starting Roster

1 Quarterback

2 Runningbacks

2 Wide Receivers

1 RB/WR Flex Position

1 Tight End

1 Place Kicker

2 Defensive Linemen

3 Linebackers

3 Defensive Backs

Bench

14 Bench positions, with no limits on specific positions

Complete Roster = 30 positions

 

Keepers

May keep no more than 5 per team, with no more than 1 per position. Any player kept will have a $10 increase to his salary for each year kept. Players can only be owned for a maximum of 3 years.

 

Scoring Rules

Offensive Scoring

20 yards passing: 1 point

Passing TD: 4 points

10 yards rushing: 1 point

Rushing TD: 6 points

10 yards receiving: 1 point

Reception: 1 point

Receiving TD: 6 points

2 point conversion: 2 points

Sack conceded: -1 point

Fumble lost: -2 points

Interception thrown: -2 points

Defensive Scoring

TD: 6 points

Safety: 4 points

Solo tackle: 2 points

Tackle assist: 1 point

Sack: 5 points

Interception: 5 points

Forced fumble: 3 points

Pass defended: 2 points

 

Kick Scoring

FG 0-39 yards: 3 points

FG 40-49 yards: 4 points

FG 50+ yards: 5 points

Extra point: 1 point

Missed/blocked extra point: -1 point

Special Teams

Any touchdowns scored by either an offensive or defensive player that are utilized in special teams formations will result in 6 points being awarded to that player.

Now for my questions....

1: Have I allotted too many bench positions? I want to allow enough wiggle room for people to develop their teams, but I also don't want it to be so big that there's no low end talent left on the waiver wire. With IDP's thrown in the mix, and the higher depth at those positions, I don't know how it will affect roster size.

2: Is the $10 keeper fee too high in relation to the auction budget? I don't want the fee to make keeping a guy a killer to someone's budget, but I also don't want someone snagging some sleeper for $1 to see him blow up and keep him for 3 years for $8 when his actual going rate might be up in the $80's or higher.

3: Our offensive scoring is pretty well set as we've tweaked it the first few years in our other league and are happy with the results. Based on research I've done, I've gone with these IDP settings, which should create both a decent balance between tackles and big plays, as well as a decent 60/40ish balance to the offensive players. Anything I'm missing or any added suggestions?

4: Since we're adding so many new elements, I'm trying to avoid overwhelming everyone, which is why I've reluctantly settled on having no cap during the season and having trades and waivers process as they would in a standard draft league (except utilizing the FAAB in a blind bid format of course). Also, should I charge a small fee of FAAB money for trades? Say $5 or $10 FAAB dollars for a trade? It could also become an added bargaining tool in trades (a team could offer to pony up the entire trade fee themselves rather than split the difference as an added bargaining chip). Or do you think this would have the opposite effect of discouraging trading? One issue I've had with our other league is there is rarely any trading. Everyone drafts their teams and wants to hoard them. In 4 years I think there's been maybe 6 trades.

5: Another idea my co-commish threw out to me... I saw the pros and cons of his idea, but I can't decide what effect it would have on the league. His pitch was this:

Replace one RB with a second offensive flex position: RB/WR/TE thus, you could have up to 3 RBs, or 4 WRs, or 2 TEs, depending on your team's configurations, etc. Like in the real-life game, your offense can have a lot of wide-outs, or more going on near the O-line. Seeing that it's a PPR league, and seeing how TE's have become very useful in recent years, it would be more interesting on draft day and game day. And, finally, the increase in offensive combinations means more possibilities for losing teams to rebuild their offense (to the extent possible, of course), and it also means that there would be more angles to work in a trade.

My 2 concerns with this would be since it's an auction the possibility of someone coming to the draft fully prepared to snatch all the top players of one position, creating a possible imbalance, which in turn could potentially create imbalances all over the board as people try to scramble to counteract the lack of top guys at a position (Hypothetically of course). And second, since it's a new league with a lot of new elements, I want to avoid any unnecessary complexity until we've become comfortable with the format. He countered with:

The hypothetical problem is even worse in the standard draft league as is: I could snatch up the top RB's anyways, and there'd be two guaranteed holes in everyone else's rosters. With a second flex spot, there'd be one guaranteed hole.

Thoughts?

Thanks for your time in reading this lengthy post, and thanks in advance for any suggestions/insight I might receive here. I'm sure I'll have many many many many more questions over the coming months. Thanks guys!!

 

[massraider]

Now for my questions....

1: Have I allotted too many bench positions? I want to allow enough wiggle room for people to develop their teams, but I also don't want it to be so big that there's no low end talent left on the waiver wire. With IDP's thrown in the mix, and the higher depth at those positions, I don't know how it will affect roster size. That roster size is fine, perhaps even a bit small for my taste. A lot of people have 20 roster spots, with no IDP, you are adding 8 more starters with only 10 more roster spots. I think 30 isn't too many.

2: Is the $10 keeper fee too high in relation to the auction budget? I don't want the fee to make keeping a guy a killer to someone's budget, but I also don't want someone snagging some sleeper for $1 to see him blow up and keep him for 3 years for $8 when his actual going rate might be up in the $80's or higher. Well, why don't you want this? You are actually punishing the smart owner that got a bargain. I think another wsy to do it, is you raise it a percentage. I do a league with auction salaries, and everyone's salaries go up 10% every year. It puts top players back into the auction every year, and allows guys to keep young steals. I don't think any way is really bad or good, whatever your preference. By the way, even with a $10 increase, if a guy's auction value would be $80, everyone i still gonna keep their $1 bargains for the full three years. Still a bargain.

3: Our offensive scoring is pretty well set as we've tweaked it the first few years in our other league and are happy with the results. Based on research I've done, I've gone with these IDP settings, which should create both a decent balance between tackles and big plays, as well as a decent 60/40ish balance to the offensive players. Anything I'm missing or any added suggestions? Whatever you are comfortable with. Everyone uses the sme scoring system, so it is just a matter of realizing where the value is.

4: Since we're adding so many new elements, I'm trying to avoid overwhelming everyone, which is why I've reluctantly settled on having no cap during the season and having trades and waivers process as they would in a standard draft league (except utilizing the FAAB in a blind bid format of course). Also, should I charge a small fee of FAAB money for trades? Say $5 or $10 FAAB dollars for a trade? It could also become an added bargaining tool in trades (a team could offer to pony up the entire trade fee themselves rather than split the difference as an added bargaining chip). Or do you think this would have the opposite effect of discouraging trading? One issue I've had with our other league is there is rarely any trading. Everyone drafts their teams and wants to hoard them. In 4 years I think there's been maybe 6 trades. Yeah, I play in similar leagues, and I wouldn't do anything that might hinder trades. I would make sure you have clear language about that no salary cap thing. Make sure it i clear there will be one moving forward.

5: Another idea my co-commish threw out to me... I saw the pros and cons of his idea, but I can't decide what effect it would have on the league. His pitch was this:

Replace one RB with a second offensive flex position: RB/WR/TE thus, you could have up to 3 RBs, or 4 WRs, or 2 TEs, depending on your team's configurations, etc. Like in the real-life game, your offense can have a lot of wide-outs, or more going on near the O-line. Seeing that it's a PPR league, and seeing how TE's have become very useful in recent years, it would be more interesting on draft day and game day. And, finally, the increase in offensive combinations means more possibilities for losing teams to rebuild their offense (to the extent possible, of course), and it also means that there would be more angles to work in a trade. I agree with your co-commish. It's nice when, during bye weeks, you can start one less or more RB or WR. Also, with that option, you have more lineup decisions, and that keeps me interested.

My 2 concerns with this would be since it's an auction the possibility of someone coming to the draft fully prepared to snatch all the top players of one position, creating a possible imbalance, which in turn could potentially create imbalances all over the board as people try to scramble to counteract the lack of top guys at a position (Hypothetically of course). And second, since it's a new league with a lot of new elements, I want to avoid any unnecessary complexity until we've become comfortable with the format. He countered with:

The hypothetical problem is even worse in the standard draft league as is: I could snatch up the top RB's anyways, and there'd be two guaranteed holes in everyone else's rosters. With a second flex spot, there'd be one guaranteed hole.

Thoughts?

I don't understand the question. In an auction format, how could anyone snatch up all the good backs?

Thanks for your time in reading this lengthy post, and thanks in advance for any suggestions/insight I might receive here. I'm sure I'll have many many many many more questions over the coming months. Thanks guys!!

Good luck.

 

[Jene Bramel]

1: Have I allotted too many bench positions? I want to allow enough wiggle room for people to develop their teams, but I also don't want it to be so big that there's no low end talent left on the waiver wire. With IDP's thrown in the mix, and the higher depth at those positions, I don't know how it will affect roster size.

I think you're probably a little light with the bench slots, skewed toward the thin bench side of the middle. There will definitely be talent on the wire since you cannot back up every starting slot and some are going to want to carry keeper potentials that don't get much playing time. People will be forced to tough decision on players every week.

2: Is the $10 keeper fee too high in relation to the auction budget? I don't want the fee to make keeping a guy a killer to someone's budget, but I also don't want someone snagging some sleeper for $1 to see him blow up and keep him for 3 years for $8 when his actual going rate might be up in the $80's or higher.

$10 is a 2.5% tax. That's not unreasonable. With your roster size a little shallow, it'll be difficult for many teams to hold onto deeper sleepers. A smaller keeper fee may provide extra incentive for that. A player that blows up and gets kept for $8 when they're worth $30 isn't much different than a player kept for $4 or $12 in relative value terms. You need to decide whether you want to incentivize shrewd roster management or shrewd cap management at the extreme or find a happy medium with roster and cap issues.

3: Our offensive scoring is pretty well set as we've tweaked it the first few years in our other league and are happy with the results. Based on research I've done, I've gone with these IDP settings, which should create both a decent balance between tackles and big plays, as well as a decent 60/40ish balance to the offensive players. Anything I'm missing or any added suggestions?

Your sack-to-tackle ratio is 2.5 to 1. That's skewed toward the tackle heavy side of a balanced scoring system, but if you like the distribution it's giving you between big play and tackle players and between positions, that's what counts. I don't see any obvious suggestions. The sack conceded stat might give you trouble with some QBs given the 4/pass TD stat, but I assume you've run that through some simulations and have a good feel for what it'll do.

4: Since we're adding so many new elements, I'm trying to avoid overwhelming everyone, which is why I've reluctantly settled on having no cap during the season and having trades and waivers process as they would in a standard draft league (except utilizing the FAAB in a blind bid format of course). Also, should I charge a small fee of FAAB money for trades? Say $5 or $10 FAAB dollars for a trade? It could also become an added bargaining tool in trades (a team could offer to pony up the entire trade fee themselves rather than split the difference as an added bargaining chip). Or do you think this would have the opposite effect of discouraging trading? One issue I've had with our other league is there is rarely any trading. Everyone drafts their teams and wants to hoard them. In 4 years I think there's been maybe 6 trades.

I'd strongly suggest having all rules in place from year one in a cap league. I'd consider a cap during the season, though the limited keeper concept works fine without one. You can extend the player auction into the season for free agent pickups to carry the cap forward, still keeping a max FAAB in place to add stategy (i.e. an owner can use no more than XX dollars for auction waivers during the year -- in leagues I've played in that number has been around 25% of the cap so 100 dollars works well there). Allow no auctions to be opened after Thursday and you can then allow FCFS waivers on Saturdays with pickups at a minimum FAAB number.

5: Another idea my co-commish threw out to me... I saw the pros and cons of his idea, but I can't decide what effect it would have on the league. His pitch was this:

Replace one RB with a second offensive flex position: RB/WR/TE thus, you could have up to 3 RBs, or 4 WRs, or 2 TEs, depending on your team's configurations, etc. Like in the real-life game, your offense can have a lot of wide-outs, or more going on near the O-line. Seeing that it's a PPR league, and seeing how TE's have become very useful in recent years, it would be more interesting on draft day and game day. And, finally, the increase in offensive combinations means more possibilities for losing teams to rebuild their offense (to the extent possible, of course), and it also means that there would be more angles to work in a trade.

My 2 concerns with this would be since it's an auction the possibility of someone coming to the draft fully prepared to snatch all the top players of one position, creating a possible imbalance, which in turn could potentially create imbalances all over the board as people try to scramble to counteract the lack of top guys at a position (Hypothetically of course). And second, since it's a new league with a lot of new elements, I want to avoid any unnecessary complexity until we've become comfortable with the format. He countered with:

The hypothetical problem is even worse in the standard draft league as is: I could snatch up the top RB's anyways, and there'd be two guaranteed holes in everyone else's rosters. With a second flex spot, there'd be one guaranteed hole.

No matter what you try, the market will define the value of players in the auction. People will exploit loopholes you won't think about and you'll see the values of some players be way outside what you expected. Can't remember the last time I finished an auction without changing strategy multiple times along the way.

Best of luck with this. Cap leagues are fun to be a part of.

If you're interested in other examples, here are two leagues that I'm in that John Norton runs. They are full dynasty leagues with in-season caps, tags and in-season auctions for waivers and one has flexes while the other doesn't but they may give you some additional food for thought.

 

[Smoky McAshtray]

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions guys. I'll take these to my co-commish and talk things over and see what we can hash out. I'll update the thread with any updates or further questions...thanks again!