Shooting At Aurora, Colorado Movie Theater (1 Viewer)

[Smack Tripper]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.ETA though, at the end of the day, I'd be interested in your or anyone's endgame thoughts. Whether through malice or impairment, episodes and incidents like this basically make clear something we've all long realized, every organizing group needs to at times isolate people that are theoretical "members" of its group. The central question to explore and answer is, can you preemptively and effectively presumptively detect, or I suppose, suspect people of doing this?

There IS a cost for freedom. To live in a free society, you sometimes will have guys thinking they're the joker shooting up a theater.

So if you value freedom, you can only act after the fact. To say, you're removed from the group because you're a kook or a criminal, its somewhat academic, you're gone and gone for good.

 

[comfortably numb]

OK I meant to say "some" in there, sorryThat's what happens when you restructure a sentence on the fly. Posting 101

Just dont see the point of making a comment like that.

 

[The_Man]

So takeaways from this thread are:

Theaters should have alarms on exit doors

People shouldn't take babies and little kids to midnight movies

There would be fewer shooting deaths if everyone were carrying guns

Limiting the availability of automatic weapons is a futile gesture that wouldn't limit mass shootings

We should ignore the Constitution when it comes to the trying of mass shooters, as well as subjecting them to torture

 

[Touchdown There]

I think a prison guards finger needs to slip and release a bunch of crazy lifers into this guys cell...

The death of Dahmer: http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/d/Jeffrey%20Dahmer/jeffrey_dahmer.htm

 

[wikkidpissah]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

 

[Smack Tripper]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Interesting, but I don't know if the dominance is a offshoot and manifestation of what I would call the primary function of any organism at an unimpeded bio-core: reproduction. I can see the dominant desire mushrooming in mate selection, be it a question of desired variety or individual quality. I think we all want the best mate in our lives, and at our core, we all want to find an environment for the best possible outcome in replicating our humanity. There is a recent human urge, maybe its American, maybe its western, but our educated member of society seem inclined to reproduce less, if not at all. It seems to really fly in the face of what human existence has meant up until the last handful of generations of man. Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

I know every guy that wants to get laid doesn't want to reproduce, but I think its intertwined with a core biological urge. If we're to see a uniformity to the spree killer, I can't think of many with contented relationship scenarios. Either a latent repressed homosexuality seems present or an lack of function interacting with women. I would theorize this extends in large part to serial killers, but it seems not to be an exclusive trait.

I'm sure there's no one path that leads to this, and many lead their lives of quiet desperation where this action can function as fantasy as opposed to actioned reality, but its an interesting strain of commonality that would seem to thread through many of these cases.

ETA: I would also add survival to the reproduction elements as the dance that keeps all living things going.

 

[cstu]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Excellent, thanks.

 

[snogger]

It's a tough thing to call, look at the nut who shot Gabrielle Giffords and all those other people.. he clearly understood the consequences of his actions and decidedly SHOULD be held FULLY accountable. But he's proving to be so crazy that it seems like there's no way he ever goes into a conventional prison situation. He's on forced medication just to keep him from going absolutely bonkers in court.

What can you do with a guy like that? I don't know the answer, it sure seems unfair if they get to live their lives in the relative comfort of a hospital.

Could have just ended your sentence there.. When we know 100% that a person committed an act as horrific as the Gabby shooting or this shooting there should be no more life to live.

 

[wikkidpissah]

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.

suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

read what i wrote, it's right there at the top.sex is terciary, the last of the survival issues. it's where Freud went wrong, probably cuz he was a perv. if one did replace "dominance" for "sex" in most of Freud's writing, however, one would be a lot closer than most are these days.

i'd go into the triune structure of our brain and how our wires got crossed, but you're not even reading my condensed versions fully.

domination is the primal instinct because capturing a compliant organism to front, feed & #### you is the easiest manner of surviving long & well.. laziness is never given enough credence in discussion of survival hierarchies but, since no organism knows where its next meal is coming from, reducing caloric use is as important as finding calories in the first place. abstractions of laziness explain possibly even more post-industrial human behavior than abstractions of dominance, but that's a whole nuther.

 

[cstu]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Interesting, but I don't know if the dominance is a offshoot and manifestation of what I would call the primary function of any organism at an unimpeded bio-core: reproduction. I can see the dominant desire mushrooming in mate selection, be it a question of desired variety or individual quality. I think we all want the best mate in our lives, and at our core, we all want to find an environment for the best possible outcome in replicating our humanity. There is a recent human urge, maybe its American, maybe its western, but our educated member of society seem inclined to reproduce less, if not at all. It seems to really fly in the face of what human existence has meant up until the last handful of generations of man. Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

I know every guy that wants to get laid doesn't want to reproduce, but I think its intertwined with a core biological urge. If we're to see a uniformity to the spree killer, I can't think of many with contented relationship scenarios. Either a latent repressed homosexuality seems present or an lack of function interacting with women. I would theorize this extends in large part to serial killers, but it seems not to be an exclusive trait.

I'm sure there's no one path that leads to this, and many lead their lives of quiet desperation where this action can function as fantasy as opposed to actioned reality, but its an interesting strain of commonality that would seem to thread through many of these cases.

Dominance accomplishes two things - increases odds of survival and make it easier to reproduce. Without any sort of power to exert dominance - either in terms of survival or reproduction (sex) - it causes frustration and anger, leading to events like this. I don't believe that homosexuality is necessarily a cause, but in a society which treats homosexuals as outcasts it can lead to the same result as simply being unsuccessful with women.

 

[cstu]

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.

suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

read what i wrote, it's right there at the top.sex is terciary, the last of the survival issues. it's where Freud went wrong, probably cuz he was a perv. if one did replace "dominance" for "sex" in most of Freud's writing, however, one would be a lot closer than most are these days.

i'd go into the triune structure of our brain and how our wires got crossed, but you're not even reading my condensed versions fully.

domination is the primal instinct because capturing a compliant organism to front, feed & #### you is the easiest manner of surviving long & well.. laziness is never given enough credence in discussion of survival hierarchies but, since no organism knows where its next meal is coming from, reducing caloric use is as important as finding calories in the first place. abstractions of laziness explain possibly even more post-industrial human behavior than abstractions of dominance, but that's a whole nuther.

Laziness is the natural state of being. For example, lions sleep 20 hours a day. Why? Because they can since they are not worried about either survival or sex.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Laziness is the natural state of being. For example, lions sleep 20 hours a day. Why? Because they can since they are not worried about either survival or sex.

the second chapter of my book is called "The Three-day Kill" and is about precisely that.

 

[Smack Tripper]

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.

suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

read what i wrote, it's right there at the top.sex is terciary, the last of the survival issues. it's where Freud went wrong, probably cuz he was a perv. if one did replace "dominance" for "sex" in most of Freud's writing, however, one would be a lot closer than most are these days.

i'd go into the triune structure of our brain and how our wires got crossed, but you're not even reading my condensed versions fully.

domination is the primal instinct because capturing a compliant organism to front, feed & #### you is the easiest manner of surviving long & well.. laziness is never given enough credence in discussion of survival hierarchies but, since no organism knows where its next meal is coming from, reducing caloric use is as important as finding calories in the first place. abstractions of laziness explain possibly even more post-industrial human behavior than abstractions of dominance, but that's a whole nuther.

I don't think its as expressed as you imply, but I believe see what you mean now. I don't know if you contributed other comments in the thread, I haven't gone through yet, but I'm inquiring as to the last post. But in any event, I can accept your premise and I don't inherently disagree.

But I guess, and I don't know if you're the person to ask or if you have thoughts on this, but a few thoughts. Is there a concept of rape elsewhere in the animal kingdom? I know there is long term mating in certain species, but is this ever violated, and how is it handled? Is there an organized structure of compliance outside of a one-on-one encounter or will the group mete out, if not justice, operate to restore balance by stopping the act? Or does dominance dominate and power rule the day?

As for the urge for dominance, if not strictly or even largely sex driven, what do you think is the need for dominance about and do you have any thoughts as to his choice of target and eventual action here. Was Holmes need for dominance in this kill-urge manner just going to manifest somewhere, and do you have any theories, distanced and abstract as we can agree they might be from the Monday Morning quarterback seat, as to why he chose to assert dominance over a movie theater as opposed to an environment where he might have more directly felt whatever feelings of oppression or submission he may have experienced?

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

 

[Smack Tripper]

Snogger, I assume the vast majority of us here understand what you're saying. He almost certainly has mental issues, but is likely not out of touch with reality or unable to understand his actions. The Christos and Timmy's will pick apart every little thing someone says; don't get why.

This doesn't apply to me. I made it clear earlier my opinion: of course he's crazy, and of course that should not protect him. Anyone who pulls this sort of #### has to be crazy, IMO. But also guilty of a horrific crime, deserving of the worst punishment our judicial system can impose.

it's not crazy, it's disconnected. actually, we need a better word - the psych profession used to call it confabulation (when a person's mental picture overrides sense & sensibility) - because media imagery helps to build the delusion which places the induced over the real and we, most egregiously the DSM (which is now mired in the same dysfunction as the teaching industry), havent caught up. i could do a large treatise on this for y'all, but my short treatises are getting little but s these days, so it aint worth the trub.

Some of us dig, WP, feel free to play to the band.

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Interesting, but I don't know if the dominance is a offshoot and manifestation of what I would call the primary function of any organism at an unimpeded bio-core: reproduction. I can see the dominant desire mushrooming in mate selection, be it a question of desired variety or individual quality. I think we all want the best mate in our lives, and at our core, we all want to find an environment for the best possible outcome in replicating our humanity. There is a recent human urge, maybe its American, maybe its western, but our educated member of society seem inclined to reproduce less, if not at all. It seems to really fly in the face of what human existence has meant up until the last handful of generations of man. Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

I know every guy that wants to get laid doesn't want to reproduce, but I think its intertwined with a core biological urge. If we're to see a uniformity to the spree killer, I can't think of many with contented relationship scenarios. Either a latent repressed homosexuality seems present or an lack of function interacting with women. I would theorize this extends in large part to serial killers, but it seems not to be an exclusive trait.

I'm sure there's no one path that leads to this, and many lead their lives of quiet desperation where this action can function as fantasy as opposed to actioned reality, but its an interesting strain of commonality that would seem to thread through many of these cases.

Dominance accomplishes two things - increases odds of survival and make it easier to reproduce. Without any sort of power to exert dominance - either in terms of survival or reproduction (sex) - it causes frustration and anger, leading to events like this. I don't believe that homosexuality is necessarily a cause, but in a society which treats homosexuals as outcasts it can lead to the same result as simply being unsuccessful with women.

Ok, this is reasoned and makes sense to me, which is not a slight to WP, but I processed this a bit better and I can't disagree.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

 

[cstu]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

Or simply posts 30k messages on a football-related message board.NTTAWWT.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

Or simply posts 30k messages on a football-related message board.NTTAWWT.

yeah, BOYeeeeeeee!

 

[cstu]

nice of you to say. if i had the time for a blog, i think i'd blow some folks away, but my work in this field (and contribution to a book on the subject) comes in bursts, which doesnt fit the format.

suffice it to say that all male (and most female) behavior are abstractions of dominance issues. the job of every organism is to survive and the most effective way to do so is to dominate its surroundings completely, so that is what every organism attempts first. including the human brain.

though the most miraculous instrument in creation, the brain's first job is survival, too, so all primary instincts are to dominate. from there, the brain walks down the hierarchy of survival needs to what it can achieve which best aids survival without creating new risks. life, and strong parents, condition each human to be successful at providing for itself most productively by frustrating dominance into compliance.

problem is, the byproduct of the frustration of dominance is rage. even if you were to have lost someone in the "Movie Massacre" (god, how i hate that term), you likely wouldn't be as upset as a kid in a store used to getting what he wants who, on this occasion, doesnt. that's pure rage you see, watching a kid who doesnt get Twizzlers from the impulse-buy rack tug at his pants with his eyes bugging out.

rage is stored, as anyone who's made his wife mad and then heard a litany of everything he's done wrong in the last three months can attest. in one of the few great design flaws in the human instrument, we are designed, from age 2 to age 11, to take in the most possible information we can store by not having an executive function (a growth spurt in the pre-frontal cortex from ages 11-13 wires the conductor to the orchestra which has been tuning its instrument for a dozen yrs) to file things in order of import. therefore, we have the million rages from the frustration of our dominance issues stored right next to our ABCs and manners.

that's as far as i can go without going 1000 pages, but its why all human behavior is an abstraction of dominance issues. to conclude, there is no greater abstraction of same than the chance to have & use a penis surrogate to resolve one's personal impotence by spraying a deadly discharge which creates the ultimate dominance - the kill. nufced

Is the need and desire for dominance about anything besides sexuality in your mind and is that the cause of it?

read what i wrote, it's right there at the top.sex is terciary, the last of the survival issues. it's where Freud went wrong, probably cuz he was a perv. if one did replace "dominance" for "sex" in most of Freud's writing, however, one would be a lot closer than most are these days.

i'd go into the triune structure of our brain and how our wires got crossed, but you're not even reading my condensed versions fully.

domination is the primal instinct because capturing a compliant organism to front, feed & #### you is the easiest manner of surviving long & well.. laziness is never given enough credence in discussion of survival hierarchies but, since no organism knows where its next meal is coming from, reducing caloric use is as important as finding calories in the first place. abstractions of laziness explain possibly even more post-industrial human behavior than abstractions of dominance, but that's a whole nuther.

I don't think its as expressed as you imply, but I believe see what you mean now. I don't know if you contributed other comments in the thread, I haven't gone through yet, but I'm inquiring as to the last post. But in any event, I can accept your premise and I don't inherently disagree.

But I guess, and I don't know if you're the person to ask or if you have thoughts on this, but a few thoughts. Is there a concept of rape elsewhere in the animal kingdom? I know there is long term mating in certain species, but is this ever violated, and how is it handled? Is there an organized structure of compliance outside of a one-on-one encounter or will the group mete out, if not justice, operate to restore balance by stopping the act? Or does dominance dominate and power rule the day?

As for the urge for dominance, if not strictly or even largely sex driven, what do you think is the need for dominance about and do you have any thoughts as to his choice of target and eventual action here. Was Holmes need for dominance in this kill-urge manner just going to manifest somewhere, and do you have any theories, distanced and abstract as we can agree they might be from the Monday Morning quarterback seat, as to why he chose to assert dominance over a movie theater as opposed to an environment where he might have more directly felt whatever feelings of oppression or submission he may have experienced?

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Animal coercive sex

Further information: Animal sexual behaviour#Coercive sex, Sexual selection, and Sexual conflict

It has long been noted that behavior resembling rape in humans is widespread in other animals, including ducks and geese, bottlenose dolphins,[1] and chimpanzees.[2] Indeed in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings.[3] Such behaviours, referred to as ‘forced copulations’, involve an animal being approached and sexually penetrated whilst it struggles or attempts to escape. These observations of forced sex among animals are not controversial. What is controversial is the interpretation of these observations and the extension of theories based on them to humans. “Thornhill introduces this theory by describing the sexual behavior of scorpion flies. In which the male may gain sex from the female either by presenting a gift of food during courtship or without a nuptial offering, in which case force is necessary to restrain her.” [4]

 

[Smack Tripper]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it). And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Animal coercive sexFurther information: Animal sexual behaviour#Coercive sex, Sexual selection, and Sexual conflictIt has long been noted that behavior resembling rape in humans is widespread in other animals, including ducks and geese, bottlenose dolphins,[1] and chimpanzees.[2] Indeed in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings.[3] Such behaviours, referred to as ‘forced copulations’, involve an animal being approached and sexually penetrated whilst it struggles or attempts to escape. These observations of forced sex among animals are not controversial. What is controversial is the interpretation of these observations and the extension of theories based on them to humans. “Thornhill introduces this theory by describing the sexual behavior of scorpion flies. In which the male may gain sex from the female either by presenting a gift of food during courtship or without a nuptial offering, in which case force is necessary to restrain her.” [4]

Ok, interesting. I'm wondering then in an offshoot, is there an organizing principle of animal society that would act to intervene, disapprove or shun this action. Again, I can image two alpha's battling over a mate, but is there a group opinion. I don't know exactly how this ties back to this shooter, but the push to assert dominance through simply advanced technological force when he likely failed in social or intellectual avenues to assert or maintain the success he previously held is potentially interesting to me. I don't know how much we can look into his adult friend finder profile, but I don't know that we can look past it either. I don't know what it all means, but I guess we can agree that he failed to achieve dominance. I guess what I'm left wondering is, what did he want to dominate? What did he want to dominate? It really is an animalistic act by a guy who lived or we can at best infer lived, an intellectual life.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it). And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

ok, but this is the last of my weirdnesses for today. one of the reasons you may be having trouble getting some of this is that i'm attempting to condense dozens of pages of point-development into a couple of paragraphs. there are several chapters in my treatise on the next subject, but i'll boil it down as much as i can.we can spell the answer to both your questions with V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. stipulating that every human has dominance issues and realising that the miracle of the human race lies in how it has learned to cooperate to solve common problems, it goes to reason that there has been great effort expended upon community sublimations since the beginning of civilization.it started with gods. we originally used gods to explain why it rained here more than there, seasons, crop failures, why one person was doing better than another. an entire industry sprung out of using gods to explain why things happened, with the added benefit of being able to explain how someone's existence had meaning at the same time. my gods being better than your gods or more of the same gods being on my side than your side moved quickly from the explanation of phenomena to abstracting how what occured on a personal level did occur.since the easiest way to gain the stuff one needed was to be on the most powerful side of construct & conflict, the individual came to be able to exercise an imitation of dominance by being on the side of the right team. "Victory, victory is our cry" each of our insides called. This diversion grew & grew and then, when industrialization came upon us and we each came to have less & less say in our personal success/failure, it exploded to the point where more and more of our lives continues to become about picking sides. Packers, Democrats, Baptists, Insane Clown Posse - it's all the same thing. Our imitation of dominance. And the birth of fantasization as a goal unto itself flowered from that.our Aurora idiot, for whatever reason, needed a win. arming oneself with no combat experience is really not that much different than an accountant tricking out a monstrous pickup truck with every appliance of macho need when the farthest offroad he'll ever get is the Wendy's drive-thru. the greatest implements of havoc in hand, he chose a hero of havoc in the Joker and won a big one over a couple hundred helpless people and a couple hundred more media outlets in one fell swoop. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. i'm outta here -

 

[Smack Tripper]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it).

And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

ok, but this is the last of my weirdnesses for today. one of the reasons you may be having trouble getting some of this is that i'm attempting to condense dozens of pages of point-development into a couple of paragraphs. there are several chapters in my treatise on the next subject, but i'll boil it down as much as i can.we can spell the answer to both your questions with V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. stipulating that every human has dominance issues and realising that the miracle of the human race lies in how it has learned to cooperate to solve common problems, it goes to reason that there has been great effort expended upon community sublimations since the beginning of civilization.

it started with gods. we originally used gods to explain why it rained here more than there, seasons, crop failures, why one person was doing better than another. an entire industry sprung out of using gods to explain why things happened, with the added benefit of being able to explain how someone's existence had meaning at the same time. my gods being better than your gods or more of the same gods being on my side than your side moved quickly from the explanation of phenomena to abstracting how what occured on a personal level did occur.

since the easiest way to gain the stuff one needed was to be on the most powerful side of construct & conflict, the individual came to be able to exercise an imitation of dominance by being on the side of the right team. "Victory, victory is our cry" each of our insides called. This diversion grew & grew and then, when industrialization came upon us and we each came to have less & less say in our personal success/failure, it exploded to the point where more and more of our lives continues to become about picking sides. Packers, Democrats, Baptists, Insane Clown Posse - it's all the same thing. Our imitation of dominance. And the birth of fantasization as a goal unto itself flowered from that.

our Aurora idiot, for whatever reason, needed a win. arming oneself with no combat experience is really not that much different than an accountant tricking out a monstrous pickup truck with every appliance of macho need when the farthest offroad he'll ever get is the Wendy's drive-thru. the greatest implements of havoc in hand, he chose a hero of havoc in the Joker and won a big one over a couple hundred helpless people and a couple hundred more media outlets in one fell swoop. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. i'm outta here -

good stuff WP. I have given much thought to this stuff myself but its stated much more eloquently, particuarly the bolded.

 

[Christo]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it).

And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

ok, but this is the last of my weirdnesses for today. one of the reasons you may be having trouble getting some of this is that i'm attempting to condense dozens of pages of point-development into a couple of paragraphs. there are several chapters in my treatise on the next subject, but i'll boil it down as much as i can.we can spell the answer to both your questions with V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. stipulating that every human has dominance issues and realising that the miracle of the human race lies in how it has learned to cooperate to solve common problems, it goes to reason that there has been great effort expended upon community sublimations since the beginning of civilization.

it started with gods. we originally used gods to explain why it rained here more than there, seasons, crop failures, why one person was doing better than another. an entire industry sprung out of using gods to explain why things happened, with the added benefit of being able to explain how someone's existence had meaning at the same time. my gods being better than your gods or more of the same gods being on my side than your side moved quickly from the explanation of phenomena to abstracting how what occured on a personal level did occur.

since the easiest way to gain the stuff one needed was to be on the most powerful side of construct & conflict, the individual came to be able to exercise an imitation of dominance by being on the side of the right team. "Victory, victory is our cry" each of our insides called. This diversion grew & grew and then, when industrialization came upon us and we each came to have less & less say in our personal success/failure, it exploded to the point where more and more of our lives continues to become about picking sides. Packers, Democrats, Baptists, Insane Clown Posse - it's all the same thing. Our imitation of dominance. And the birth of fantasization as a goal unto itself flowered from that.

our Aurora idiot, for whatever reason, needed a win. arming oneself with no combat experience is really not that much different than an accountant tricking out a monstrous pickup truck with every appliance of macho need when the farthest offroad he'll ever get is the Wendy's drive-thru. the greatest implements of havoc in hand, he chose a hero of havoc in the Joker and won a big one over a couple hundred helpless people and a couple hundred more media outlets in one fell swoop. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. i'm outta here -

good stuff WP. I have given much thought to this stuff myself but its stated much more eloquently, particuarly the bolded.

I disagree with that. The world has always been based in tribalism. We just realize it more now because of our ability to communicate so quickly and so many different ways than we did in the past. It's also related to our ability to travel great distances so quickly and easily.

 

[Raider Nation]

Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning is calling hospital victims of the Colorado theater shooting to lift their spirits.A spokeswoman for the Medical Center of Aurora says that Manning spoke one-on-one by phone on Saturday afternoon with several patients brought there after the shooting.

 

[Underachievers]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

 

[shadyridr]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting. Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

hes the leader of the country. its pretty much in his job description

 

[Underachievers]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

hes the leader of the country. its pretty much in his job description

Link please....What can he say that we do not already know? Does he believe that his words will console the nation? Can't he show his sympathy just by being their and releasing a statement?

Sorry, this is for political gain, especially so in a state that is questionable for him in November.

 

[Sebowski]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting. Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

 

[Christo]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting. Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

hes the leader of the country. its pretty much in his job description

It's the president's job to go on television to talk about a crime in Colorado?Article 2:

SECTION 1.The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.* * * SECTION 2.The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.SECTION 3.He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

 

[bakes]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

Unlike those stand up Conservatives who would never do such a thing. No, never. And both of those are going to be far more political than what Obama will say.

 

[cstu]

Holmes reminds me a lot of Ed Norton's character from Fight Club, but instead of projecting himself to be Tyler Durden he's the Joker. He's apparently still pretending to be the Joker in jail. The Joker seems to be everything Holmes wishes he could be - confident, fearless, no worries, lack of inhibition and a total disregard for society's rules.

 

[Raider Nation]

Political crap creeping into EVERY effin discussion makes me sick. Go away!!!!!!

 

[jonessed]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it).

And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

ok, but this is the last of my weirdnesses for today. one of the reasons you may be having trouble getting some of this is that i'm attempting to condense dozens of pages of point-development into a couple of paragraphs. there are several chapters in my treatise on the next subject, but i'll boil it down as much as i can.we can spell the answer to both your questions with V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. stipulating that every human has dominance issues and realising that the miracle of the human race lies in how it has learned to cooperate to solve common problems, it goes to reason that there has been great effort expended upon community sublimations since the beginning of civilization.

it started with gods. we originally used gods to explain why it rained here more than there, seasons, crop failures, why one person was doing better than another. an entire industry sprung out of using gods to explain why things happened, with the added benefit of being able to explain how someone's existence had meaning at the same time. my gods being better than your gods or more of the same gods being on my side than your side moved quickly from the explanation of phenomena to abstracting how what occured on a personal level did occur.

since the easiest way to gain the stuff one needed was to be on the most powerful side of construct & conflict, the individual came to be able to exercise an imitation of dominance by being on the side of the right team. "Victory, victory is our cry" each of our insides called. This diversion grew & grew and then, when industrialization came upon us and we each came to have less & less say in our personal success/failure, it exploded to the point where more and more of our lives continues to become about picking sides. Packers, Democrats, Baptists, Insane Clown Posse - it's all the same thing. Our imitation of dominance. And the birth of fantasization as a goal unto itself flowered from that.

our Aurora idiot, for whatever reason, needed a win. arming oneself with no combat experience is really not that much different than an accountant tricking out a monstrous pickup truck with every appliance of macho need when the farthest offroad he'll ever get is the Wendy's drive-thru. the greatest implements of havoc in hand, he chose a hero of havoc in the Joker and won a big one over a couple hundred helpless people and a couple hundred more media outlets in one fell swoop. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. i'm outta here -

good stuff WP. I have given much thought to this stuff myself but its stated much more eloquently, particuarly the bolded.

I disagree with that. The world has always been based in tribalism. We just realize it more now because of our ability to communicate so quickly and so many different ways than we did in the past. It's also related to our ability to travel great distances so quickly and easily.

 

[Premier]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

hes the leader of the country. its pretty much in his job description

Link please....What can he say that we do not already know? Does he believe that his words will console the nation? Can't he show his sympathy just by being their and releasing a statement?

Sorry, this is for political gain, especially so in a state that is questionable for him in November.

If he doesn't talk:

"I can't believe our president doesn't care about these victims in their time of need. What a worthless pile of dung."

Some of you people should be science projects.

 

[Fennis]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting. Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

hes the leader of the country. its pretty much in his job description

It's the president's job to go on television to talk about a crime in Colorado?Article 2:

SECTION 1.The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.* * * SECTION 2.The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.SECTION 3.He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Yes

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Holmes reminds me a lot of Ed Norton's character from Fight Club, but instead of projecting himself to be Tyler Durden he's the Joker. He's apparently still pretending to be the Joker in jail. The Joker seems to be everything Holmes wishes he could be - confident, fearless, no worries, lack of inhibition and a total disregard for society's rules.

This post struck me. I guess I figured some point in the last two days he'd "sobered up" and while maybe not feeling remorse, at least reacting to the situation in a coherent sense. If he indeed is still playing the character, that would be both bizarre and fascinating, whether or not it's and act.

 

[hammerva]

I don't know who this guy is talking in this vigil I am watching now on CNN but he is awesome with his energy and telling of the story

 

[Smack Tripper]

Lastly, do you think if he was getting laid regularly, this would have happened or been possible?

Personal dissatisfaction is only the medium in which these problems grow - he could just as easily become an overeater or avid philatelist as a result of sexual frustration. All are sublimations.

I can agree with this. Ok, now why the movie theater oh wise one? Why not something more directly relatable to his situation where sketchy reports are that he MAY have encountered recent struggles in academia (too early to know if this is reliable, so I stress the REPORTED nature of it).

And I guess I'll put more on your plate by wondering where the urge or awareness of future fame or infamy comes in this case? I've never actually explored the VT Killer, but I guess in reflection its kind of interesting that he submitted a tape to NBC before doing this. I would think tying himself to this film would be obviously in some ways appealing, not inherently like Chapman's stated desire to be linked to Lennon through murder.

ok, but this is the last of my weirdnesses for today. one of the reasons you may be having trouble getting some of this is that i'm attempting to condense dozens of pages of point-development into a couple of paragraphs. there are several chapters in my treatise on the next subject, but i'll boil it down as much as i can.we can spell the answer to both your questions with V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. stipulating that every human has dominance issues and realising that the miracle of the human race lies in how it has learned to cooperate to solve common problems, it goes to reason that there has been great effort expended upon community sublimations since the beginning of civilization.

it started with gods. we originally used gods to explain why it rained here more than there, seasons, crop failures, why one person was doing better than another. an entire industry sprung out of using gods to explain why things happened, with the added benefit of being able to explain how someone's existence had meaning at the same time. my gods being better than your gods or more of the same gods being on my side than your side moved quickly from the explanation of phenomena to abstracting how what occured on a personal level did occur.

since the easiest way to gain the stuff one needed was to be on the most powerful side of construct & conflict, the individual came to be able to exercise an imitation of dominance by being on the side of the right team. "Victory, victory is our cry" each of our insides called. This diversion grew & grew and then, when industrialization came upon us and we each came to have less & less say in our personal success/failure, it exploded to the point where more and more of our lives continues to become about picking sides. Packers, Democrats, Baptists, Insane Clown Posse - it's all the same thing. Our imitation of dominance. And the birth of fantasization as a goal unto itself flowered from that.

our Aurora idiot, for whatever reason, needed a win. arming oneself with no combat experience is really not that much different than an accountant tricking out a monstrous pickup truck with every appliance of macho need when the farthest offroad he'll ever get is the Wendy's drive-thru. the greatest implements of havoc in hand, he chose a hero of havoc in the Joker and won a big one over a couple hundred helpless people and a couple hundred more media outlets in one fell swoop. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. i'm outta here -

good stuff WP. I have given much thought to this stuff myself but its stated much more eloquently, particuarly the bolded.

I disagree with that. The world has always been based in tribalism. We just realize it more now because of our ability to communicate so quickly and so many different ways than we did in the past. It's also related to our ability to travel great distances so quickly and easily.

Interesting, I can understand what you're saying and I certainly wouldn't dream of speaking for WP, but speaking for myself, the thoughts I've connected and taken away from that, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this situation. However, what strikes me about America is our desire to attach ourselves to number one, a winner, the best. I guess when I think of your tribalism analogy, you sort of live and die with your tribe in a human sense. Most recently this has been through nationalism when identifying with tribal tendencies. And yes, this goes for community and sports identifiers with respect to divisions inside of our own borders, be they the listed cases of religious choice, sports team, what part of the country you're in, what sort of social group you're in. Those lines exist, but what strikes me more is the desire for people to align themselves with a leader in a given field. I'm speaking in generalities, but why is it people will make their voting choice based who is leading at the polls. They will then refuse to vote for a losing candidate because they don't want to "waste" their vote. I work in media, and in the past decade or 15 years, there is now a pronounced, active sport in show BUSINESS. Why in the hell would the public care about the box office of a film? Its mind boggling, truly. But its almost as if to say, they want to be proud and part of a "winner" in going to the number one movie and no one wants to be alone seeing a bomb. Ditto television ratings. And this goes on and on in nearly all elements of society from bandwagons sports fans to where to buy your clothes so that you can be an "individual". The only place this seems to be an exception would seem to be in relgion, but I submit to the under 35 set, amongst blue staters at least, there is almost a stigma in faith, where people feel the need to align and be vocal in atheism, talking about it like an outsider choice when its really not a difficult choice based on peer group.

Maybe it is via isolation and evolving socialization that are redefining our tribalism from a physical one to a digital one, and it being an avatar, me, Smack Tripper can be, say or project any way I want on here. I may be earnest as hell, I may be fishing, but the point is, there is little to keep me in one tribe versus joining another, outside of a middling socialization pressure. I'm a face in the crowd here, and a face in the crowd in real life, and unlike perhaps certain posters here who have defined and established a persona. A projection of what they have stood for, and I hate to define and delineate in this manner, but since so many people are relatively comfortable self identifying as liberal or conservative, and I suppose they are limited to their tribe, such that they risk being called a hypocrite. But if someone wants to be a whole other person, join a whole other tribe, they can do as simply as clicking "create new profile".

It used to be harder work changing your tribe, and it was a choice with greater stakes. Now there is less connection, less stakes, and less value to interactions.

How this relates to what we're talking about, I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem wholly disconnected either.

 

[belljr]

I'm all for people having the right to own a gun and follow the proper procedures. But why do civilians need or have the right to so extreme weapons.

That part is where i struggle

 

[Joe Summer]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

 

[Christo]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

The president is in charge of NASA.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Interesting, I can understand what you're saying and I certainly wouldn't dream of speaking for WP, but speaking for myself, the thoughts I've connected and taken away from that, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this situation. However, what strikes me about America is our desire to attach ourselves to number one, a winner, the best. I guess when I think of your tribalism analogy, you sort of live and die with your tribe in a human sense. Most recently this has been through nationalism when identifying with tribal tendencies. And yes, this goes for community and sports identifiers with respect to divisions inside of our own borders, be they the listed cases of religious choice, sports team, what part of the country you're in, what sort of social group you're in. Those lines exist, but what strikes me more is the desire for people to align themselves with a leader in a given field. I'm speaking in generalities, but why is it people will make their voting choice based who is leading at the polls. They will then refuse to vote for a losing candidate because they don't want to "waste" their vote. I work in media, and in the past decade or 15 years, there is now a pronounced, active sport in show BUSINESS. Why in the hell would the public care about the box office of a film? Its mind boggling, truly. But its almost as if to say, they want to be proud and part of a "winner" in going to the number one movie and no one wants to be alone seeing a bomb. Ditto television ratings. And this goes on and on in nearly all elements of society from bandwagons sports fans to where to buy your clothes so that you can be an "individual". The only place this seems to be an exception would seem to be in relgion, but I submit to the under 35 set, amongst blue staters at least, there is almost a stigma in faith, where people feel the need to align and be vocal in atheism, talking about it like an outsider choice when its really not a difficult choice based on peer group. Maybe it is via isolation and evolving socialization that are redefining our tribalism from a physical one to a digital one, and it being an avatar, me, Smack Tripper can be, say or project any way I want on here. I may be earnest as hell, I may be fishing, but the point is, there is little to keep me in one tribe versus joining another, outside of a middling socialization pressure. I'm a face in the crowd here, and a face in the crowd in real life, and unlike perhaps certain posters here who have defined and established a persona. A projection of what they have stood for, and I hate to define and delineate in this manner, but since so many people are relatively comfortable self identifying as liberal or conservative, and I suppose they are limited to their tribe, such that they risk being called a hypocrite. But if someone wants to be a whole other person, join a whole other tribe, they can do as simply as clicking "create new profile". It used to be harder work changing your tribe, and it was a choice with greater stakes. Now there is less connection, less stakes, and less value to interactions. How this relates to what we're talking about, I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem wholly disconnected either.

I've gone on too much today, so i'll just support ST's assertion that the phenomenon is something more than tribalism. Because our struggles have been so elemental for most of the first 10,000 yrs of civilization (and are for at least half the world at present), those of us for whom each day is no longer a life/death struggle feel the benefits of comfort at the cost of loss of personal power. In order to feel more purposeful, we invest personal interest in teams, sides & other public arenas of contest in order to fill our victory needs vicariously. Perhaps some other time i'll expand upon the origin & consequence of proxy dominance but, for now, i'll just say its similarity to tribalism is mostly mirage.

 

[3C's]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041702103.htmlIn times of crisis and tragedy, Americans have turned to their president for leadership and words of reassurance.

http://www.1041thetruth.com/news/113343399.html

 

[Smack Tripper]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting.

Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

 

[bakes]

Interesting, I can understand what you're saying and I certainly wouldn't dream of speaking for WP, but speaking for myself, the thoughts I've connected and taken away from that, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this situation. However, what strikes me about America is our desire to attach ourselves to number one, a winner, the best. I guess when I think of your tribalism analogy, you sort of live and die with your tribe in a human sense. Most recently this has been through nationalism when identifying with tribal tendencies. And yes, this goes for community and sports identifiers with respect to divisions inside of our own borders, be they the listed cases of religious choice, sports team, what part of the country you're in, what sort of social group you're in. Those lines exist, but what strikes me more is the desire for people to align themselves with a leader in a given field. I'm speaking in generalities, but why is it people will make their voting choice based who is leading at the polls. They will then refuse to vote for a losing candidate because they don't want to "waste" their vote. I work in media, and in the past decade or 15 years, there is now a pronounced, active sport in show BUSINESS. Why in the hell would the public care about the box office of a film? Its mind boggling, truly. But its almost as if to say, they want to be proud and part of a "winner" in going to the number one movie and no one wants to be alone seeing a bomb. Ditto television ratings. And this goes on and on in nearly all elements of society from bandwagons sports fans to where to buy your clothes so that you can be an "individual". The only place this seems to be an exception would seem to be in relgion, but I submit to the under 35 set, amongst blue staters at least, there is almost a stigma in faith, where people feel the need to align and be vocal in atheism, talking about it like an outsider choice when its really not a difficult choice based on peer group. Maybe it is via isolation and evolving socialization that are redefining our tribalism from a physical one to a digital one, and it being an avatar, me, Smack Tripper can be, say or project any way I want on here. I may be earnest as hell, I may be fishing, but the point is, there is little to keep me in one tribe versus joining another, outside of a middling socialization pressure. I'm a face in the crowd here, and a face in the crowd in real life, and unlike perhaps certain posters here who have defined and established a persona. A projection of what they have stood for, and I hate to define and delineate in this manner, but since so many people are relatively comfortable self identifying as liberal or conservative, and I suppose they are limited to their tribe, such that they risk being called a hypocrite. But if someone wants to be a whole other person, join a whole other tribe, they can do as simply as clicking "create new profile". It used to be harder work changing your tribe, and it was a choice with greater stakes. Now there is less connection, less stakes, and less value to interactions. How this relates to what we're talking about, I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem wholly disconnected either.

I've gone on too much today, so i'll just support ST's assertion that the phenomenon is something more than tribalism. Because our struggles have been so elemental for most of the first 10,000 yrs of civilization (and are for at least half the world at present), those of us for whom each day is no longer a life/death struggle feel the benefits of comfort at the cost of loss of personal power. In order to feel more purposeful, we invest personal interest in teams, sides & other public arenas of contest in order to fill our victory needs vicariously. Perhaps some other time i'll expand upon the origin & consequence of proxy dominance but, for now, i'll just say its similarity to tribalism is mostly mirage.

Just wanted to add that I've enjoyed reading the WP-ST discourse. How the human mind works on a societal level is fascinating (and far above my head). Great discussion guys.

 

[Britney Spears]

Crazy person did a crazy thing--no way to stop it if a mental health professionals didn't catch it at some time in their life.

The guy is not crazy.

Really?

The shooter bought a ticket and walked into the movie theater. According to FBI sources, he left by an emergency exit, propped it open, dressed in protective black clothing and gathered weapons from his car parked behind the exit. He returned through the emergency door about half an hour into the film, dressed all in black; he was wearing a ballistic helmet, a tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector and a groin protector and a gas mask, and black tactical gloves.

Crazy does not mean unable to calculate.

He decided it was a good idea to kill innocent people, so he's unquestionably crazy.

 

[Daywalker]

I would have thought the emergency exit doors to an individual theater would have some sort of sensor to alert staff in case someone is letting all their friends in. Not saying it would make a difference just figured the theaters would have this.

This is ridiculous...I've seen it stated like 20 times in this thread. Have none of you people ever been to a damn theater? It's just normal exit doors...near the screen...on either side. They're not alarmed...they're just there to help get the flow of people out...and yes, they can be used as an emergency exit but they're not alarmed because people use them every single showing.Damn.

Not saying any type of alarm would make a difference and when I say alarm and mean only one that goes to theater security not something everyone in the theater can hear. It is rare for anyone in the theaters I go to use the exits besides the screen. I've never been to a matinee and people are leaving through those exits letting all the light in as I wait for some lame skit at the end of a Marvel movie. Doesn't happen.At $10-15 a ticket is it so hard to imagine that it might be somewhat smart to keep an eye on the exits so people aren't sneaking in? It's not technology you see on Modern Marvels. Just a damm sensor that if it goes off anytime other then the end of the movie signifies someone trying to sneak in. Again, not saying it would have helped at all with the massacre just saying if it's my theater I'm watching those exits. Just simple technology. Christ sake the menus at the concessions at my theater are on plasma's that are advertising to me on line. Most theaters are so cheap they don't have mirrors in the bathroom but people can sneak in with such ease? It's just odd.

I have never seen those doors alarmed or monitored in any theater I've been to...and most around me have like 15+ screens. It's just not going to happen and it's foolish to even request or expect it.I use those doors often...they lead right to the parking lot and I don't have to do the two step shuffle with everyone else in order to get back to the crowded lobby to exit out front. I don't understand why more people don't use them. But usually I'm the first and then there's a river of people behind me...like they needed someone to show them it's not alarmed or something.

I was watching Star Trek and they had something called "timers." So for instance if the exit door is ajar in the beginning of a movie an alarm goes off as oppossed at the end of the movie it's no big deal.Crazy tech I know. A wild idea. Not like a business owner would think of that. Yeah it's crazy that it would be difficult to sneak into a movie theater.

 

[drummer]

Looks like our Dear Leader is going to address the nation tonight about the shooting. Good to see that he is not trying to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain. What a worthless pile of dung.

Jeebus, someone should profile you in case of a copycat.

 

[Kirby]

I'm all for people having the right to own a gun and follow the proper procedures. But why do civilians needed ore have the right to so extreme weapons.That part is where i struggle

The right to bear arms isn't in the Constitution so we can hunt deer. It's there so we can fight our government.

 

[Rayderr]

I'm all for people having the right to own a gun and follow the proper procedures. But why do civilians needed ore have the right to so extreme weapons.That part is where i struggle

The right to bear arms isn't in the Constitution so we can hunt deer. It's there so we can fight our government.

or invading armies.