Shooting at KC Jewish Community Center, 3 dead (1 Viewer)

[St. Louis Bob]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

 

[msommer]

Clearly the answer is to have more guns

 

[rockaction]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

 

[KCitons]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

 

[ChiefD]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

 

[rockaction]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

Ugh. Best of luck to you...so sorry.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

Ugh. Best of luck to you...so sorry.

:(

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect. Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

Most of these shootings have been carried out by adults so I'm not sure of your point exactly. It seems to me that jail isn't a deterrent any longer. That and these cowards get world wide fame for carrying out these evil deeds. In cut and dried cases like this, I'm starting to think a lifetime of torture might make these people think twice. That will never happen and it shouldn't really. Just so disgusted and sick to my stomach about these things.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

 

[The Big Guy]

Perhaps we can at least agree that an assist goes to today's politicians and media, who engage in a variety of "blame the other guy and demonize them" mind games on us. This is not an R or D issue, this happens with both parties and weak minded people are easily manipulated.

 

[The Big Guy]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

Way to over simplify things. TV, movies and video games are helping raise our children, just as they did with us. Problem is, our version was Tom and Jerry style violence and today we get COD splatter violence. Very easy to desensitize people to the horror of real violence by overloading and even rewarding horrific behaviors.

 

[Leonidas]

Perhaps we can at least agree that an assist goes to today's politicians and media, who engage in a variety of "blame the other guy and demonize them" mind games on us. This is not an R or D issue, this happens with both parties and weak minded people are easily manipulated.

Media.

This is one of the easiest, most surefire ways of making yourself famous.

You could kill three people in an automobile accident and it would hardly make local news. But do it with a firearm and it's a national hit.

Doing something that fits the media's agenda...that's the ticket to fame

 

[The Big Guy]

Perhaps we can at least agree that an assist goes to today's politicians and media, who engage in a variety of "blame the other guy and demonize them" mind games on us. This is not an R or D issue, this happens with both parties and weak minded people are easily manipulated.

Media.

This is one of the easiest, most surefire ways of making yourself famous.

You could kill three people in an automobile accident and it would hardly make local news. But do it with a firearm and it's a national hit.

Doing something that fits the media's agenda...that's the ticket to fame

I agree with this 100% and would agree more if possible. You can also add sports to this, as people try for their Sportscenter moment and do more flexing, posing and celebrating than ever.

We are Andy Warhol's worst nightmare. He saw it coming with his 15 minutes of fame line.

 

[KCitons]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect. Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

Most of these shootings have been carried out by adults so I'm not sure of your point exactly.It seems to me that jail isn't a deterrent any longer. That and these cowards get world wide fame for carrying out these evil deeds. In cut and dried cases like this, I'm starting to think a lifetime of torture might make these people think twice. That will never happen and it shouldn't really. Just so disgusted and sick to my stomach about these things.

Kids don't stay kids forever. Some people outgrow their problems.

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

 

[ChiefD]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect. Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

Way to over simplify things. TV, movies and video games are helping raise our children, just as they did with us. Problem is, our version was Tom and Jerry style violence and today we get COD splatter violence. Very easy to desensitize people to the horror of real violence by overloading and even rewarding horrific behaviors.

Here's the problem:

1. Lack of morality

2. Lazy parenting

3. Latchkey kids

4. ADHD drugs

5. Video games

6. Media

7. Easy access to guns

8. Desensitization to violence

9. Hopelessness

It's all of it. There is no fix. There is no easy answer. There is no blame game and finger pointing. This is society yesterday, today, and tomorrow. With easier access to the stories that talk about it.

All I'm thinking today is I pray to God for those families, and whether I know them directly or not, they are still part of my KC family.

 

[timschochet]

There is very little that can be done to prevent this sort of hate crime. Thankfully it's a rare thing.

 

[El Floppo]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

Ugh. Best of luck to you...so sorry.

:(

 

[Mister Martie]

ADHD drugs?

 

[Koya]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

ADHD drugs?

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

I didn't get anything out of your post, not sure how that was even possible. A 70-year-old man kills three people at a Jewish Center, and you start a conversation about parenting. Brilliant.

 

[KCitons]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

I didn't get anything out of your post, not sure how that was even possible. A 70-year-old man kills three people at a Jewish Center, and you start a conversation about parenting. Brilliant.

He just happens to be the latest in a string of violent acts. OP asked how we stop these maniac(s). The average age of these mass murderers is much lower than 70. If you're trying to solve the problem of hate crimes committed by senior citizens, my solution is to play the odds. Most of them will be dying of old age soon. Problem solved.

Let's worry about the growing number of twenty something's that are plotting their 15 minutes of fame.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect. Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

I didn't get anything out of your post, not sure how that was even possible. A 70-year-old man kills three people at a Jewish Center, and you start a conversation about parenting. Brilliant.

Seriously

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

I didn't get anything out of your post, not sure how that was even possible. A 70-year-old man kills three people at a Jewish Center, and you start a conversation about parenting. Brilliant.

He just happens to be the latest in a string of violent acts. OP asked how we stop these maniac(s). The average age of these mass murderers is much lower than 70. If you're trying to solve the problem of hate crimes committed by senior citizens, my solution is to play the odds. Most of them will be dying of old age soon. Problem solved.

Let's worry about the growing number of twenty something's that are plotting their 15 minutes of fame.

According to your logic, this guy's parents shouldn't have let him watch so much I Love Lucy and Gunsmoke when he was a kid. Fred Mertz taught him how to be a violent anti-Semite.

 

[timschochet]

I always thought there was something a little Fascist about Mr. Mertz.

 

[KCitons]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

If that's what you got from my post, then you we should stop right now. (hint: read the bolded part of my post)

I didn't get anything out of your post, not sure how that was even possible. A 70-year-old man kills three people at a Jewish Center, and you start a conversation about parenting. Brilliant.

He just happens to be the latest in a string of violent acts. OP asked how we stop these maniac(s). The average age of these mass murderers is much lower than 70. If you're trying to solve the problem of hate crimes committed by senior citizens, my solution is to play the odds. Most of them will be dying of old age soon. Problem solved.

Let's worry about the growing number of twenty something's that are plotting their 15 minutes of fame.

According to your logic, this guy's parents shouldn't have let him watch so much I Love Lucy and Gunsmoke when he was a kid. Fred Mertz taught him how to be a violent anti-Semite.

The article in the OP made no mention as to the age of the shooter. So sue me.

What's the ratio of hate crimes committed by 70 year olds, to mass murderers in their teens, 20's or 30's? My point is still valid.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

When the shooter (so far, news released says the shooter is in his 70s, was driving a car with Missouri plates) rolled up, yelled "Heil Hitler", and open fire, the nearest targets were high schoolers and their families. JCC was holding auditions today for KC Superstar, and AI-type singing competition started by JCC for high school kids in the area. Cash prizes for winners, proceeds from the event fund arts programs and scholarships for area kids.

Other events taking place at JCC when the shooting happened included a rehearsal for an upcoming community theater production of To Kill A Mockingbird, and a weekly games/fitness event for kids on the autism spectrum, and their families and friends.

Just mentioning that so folks reading this can understand that JCC is far from a radical organization; they are not overtly political, and their inclusiveness is remarkable.

Anyway, one of the victims is a 14-year-old kid, presumed to be at JCC waiting to audition for KC Superstar. Another is that kid's grandfather, who drove the kid to JCC. Family are members at Church of the Resurrection in Leawood.

 

[Da Guru]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

Sad to say these kinds of crimes are impossible to ever stop. It is the same with individual terrorists. One crazed person acting alone is very dangerous.

 

[rockaction]

A really good friend of mine is from Overland Park, KS. T&P. Tragic.

I live and work relatively close to where this is. I'm praying for those families. I also know a lot of people that go to that facility. Waiting word on the victims.

When the shooter (so far, news released says the shooter is in his 70s, was driving a car with Missouri plates) rolled up, yelled "Heil Hitler", and open fire, the nearest targets were high schoolers and their families. JCC was holding auditions today for KC Superstar, and AI-type singing competition started by JCC for high school kids in the area. Cash prizes for winners, proceeds from the event fund arts programs and scholarships for area kids.

Other events taking place at JCC when the shooting happened included a rehearsal for an upcoming community theater production of To Kill A Mockingbird, and a weekly games/fitness event for kids on the autism spectrum, and their families and friends.

Just mentioning that so folks reading this can understand that JCC is far from a radical organization; they are not overtly political, and their inclusiveness is remarkable.

Anyway, one of the victims is a 14-year-old kid, presumed to be at JCC waiting to audition for KC Superstar. Another is that kid's grandfather, who drove the kid to JCC. Family are members at Church of the Resurrection in Leawood.

Thanks for your post. It almost seemed like we knew this when we didn't. So thank God this happened, right? Don't know what else to say about it other than sickness.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

Sad to say these kinds of crimes are impossible to ever stop. It is the same with individual terrorists. One crazed person acting alone is very dangerous.

I understand that GB but the way these have been handled seems to be leading to even more shootings. Something needs to change.

 

[Da Guru]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

Sad to say these kinds of crimes are impossible to ever stop. It is the same with individual terrorists. One crazed person acting alone is very dangerous.

I understand that GB but the way these have been handled seems to be leading to even more shootings. Something needs to change.

Death penalty within 30 days of the crime seems reasonable.

 

[KCitons]

Shooter was/is a KKK member

A civil rights organization that tracks hate groups said it has long known about Cross

 

[St. Louis Bob]

So he belongs to the KKK. Why is the KKK even allowed to exist? They've been known to murder people. Shouldn't they be classified as a terrorist organization?

 

[T Bell]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect.

Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

So basically your bottom line is that video games are raising our children?

Way to over simplify things. TV, movies and video games are helping raise our children, just as they did with us. Problem is, our version was Tom and Jerry style violence and today we get COD splatter violence. Very easy to desensitize people to the horror of real violence by overloading and even rewarding horrific behaviors.

The guy was 72 years old. His version of violence was black and white Flash Gordon TV shows with spaceships hanging from strings.

He was a hateful, ignorant loser who decided to go out in a blaze of "glory". There will always be such people among us. It's the human condition.

 

[Yenrub]

Perhaps we can at least agree that an assist goes to today's politicians and media, who engage in a variety of "blame the other guy and demonize them" mind games on us. This is not an R or D issue, this happens with both parties and weak minded people are easily manipulated.

Media.

This is one of the easiest, most surefire ways of making yourself famous.

You could kill three people in an automobile accident and it would hardly make local news. But do it with a firearm and it's a national hit.

Doing something that fits the media's agenda...that's the ticket to fame

What good is it to be famous if you are rotting away in prison?

 

[timschochet]

So he belongs to the KKK. Why is the KKK even allowed to exist? They've been known to murder people. Shouldn't they be classified as a terrorist organization?

The KKK does not in itself direct violent activity against anyone. It is not a terrorist group. It has as much right to exist as the Communist Party, the Nation of Islam, and other "hate" groups.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So he belongs to the KKK. Why is the KKK even allowed to exist? They've been known to murder people. Shouldn't they be classified as a terrorist organization?

We allow the Catholic church to exist.

 

[KCitons]

So none of the three victims were Jewish? One was Catholic, the other two were Methodist.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So none of the three victims were Jewish? One was Catholic, the other two were Methodist.

Jews can't be Methodist?

 

[KCitons]

So none of the three victims were Jewish? One was Catholic, the other two were Methodist.

Jews can't be Methodist?

You tell me? The report I heard, stated that none of the victims were Jewish?

 

[T Bell]

So none of the three victims were Jewish? One was Catholic, the other two were Methodist.

How bad of a shot do you have to be to hit one Catholic and two Methodists at a Jewish community center?

 

[KCitons]

So none of the three victims were Jewish? One was Catholic, the other two were Methodist.

How bad of a shot do you have to be to hit one Catholic and two Methodists at a Jewish community center?

Too soon.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

So he belongs to the KKK. Why is the KKK even allowed to exist? They've been known to murder people. Shouldn't they be classified as a terrorist organization?

The KKK does not in itself direct violent activity against anyone. It is not a terrorist group. It has as much right to exist as the Communist Party, the Nation of Islam, and other "hate" groups.

Their entire existence has been about physically hurting/killing and intimidating other people with a goal of complete eradication. I think that goes a little beyond "free speech".

 

[Clifford]

Link

What a ####### coward. So sick and tired of these maniacs. So how do we stop this nonsense?

To some degree, I think the answer starts at home. The gun debate has been beat into the ground. But, guns have been around a long time. Video games have been discussed, but other countries' teens are immersed in video games, without the same effect. Something that has changed since I was a kid, is the lack of parenting involved in raising a child. Either due to financial needs, or self absorption, both parents are working outside the home. Kids are being raised by day care, public schools, and to some degree each other.

Kids need parents, or at the very least, strong role models in their life.

Most of these shootings have been carried out by adults so I'm not sure of your point exactly.It seems to me that jail isn't a deterrent any longer. That and these cowards get world wide fame for carrying out these evil deeds. In cut and dried cases like this, I'm starting to think a lifetime of torture might make these people think twice. That will never happen and it shouldn't really. Just so disgusted and sick to my stomach about these things.

We could certainly try it. We just can't have our government doing the torturing. I would say let's take the kid that survived the stabbing and send him to the Egyptian prisons we used to torture people for extraordinary rendition. Just say that our justice system is too kind to deal with people like this, but there are others that aren't. Just hand the kid off to some dank prison in the third world and deliberately cut off all contact or monitoring of his situation.

Honestly I don't know if that really has any effect though. This particular case shows how bad our justice system is at identifying clear potential threats and removing them from society permanently. He was a known white supremacist, found with stockpiles of weapons and a confirmed plot to kill the founder of the SPLC down here in Montgomery.

So you have the intent, means, and will to carry out murder, but because weapons charges won't get you much, the fact that he was caught before he carried it out meant he only got 3 years. I think he also flipped on some other WS bastards according to SPLC's Mark Potok.

 

[glock]

14 year old and his grandfather among victims...

 

[Mookie]

I'm a big advocate for gun control, but I don't think gun control would stop this type of pure evil. And eliminating the KKK does nothing to eliminate the hatred and bigotry in this guy's head.

 

[Clifford]

He ultimately served three years in prison after being indicted on weapons and robbery charges – in addition to plotting the assassination of the SPLC’s founder, Morris Dees, according to the center’s records. He avoided a significant prison sentence in exchange for testifying against 14 other white supremacist leaders.


So basically flipped and got a 3-year sentence. Whoever cut the deal with this guy now has three dead people on his hands, as they should have gotten him for weapons and attempted murder or whatever charges go with plotting to kill someone.

This wasn't someone who just came out of the woodwork like other mass shootings recently. He was a known threat who was allowed to walk so they could get other guys. From what I heard on the radio he was caught with a massive stockpile of illegal weapons.

Now, if this country viewed a mass stockpile weapons as something, well, dangerous, or perhaps indicative of a seriously imbalanced and dangerous mental state, we might have different results today, as he might have been bargaining down from life to 20 years. As it was, three years.

 

[T Bell]

He ultimately served three years in prison after being indicted on weapons and robbery charges – in addition to plotting the assassination of the SPLC’s founder, Morris Dees, according to the center’s records. He avoided a significant prison sentence in exchange for testifying against 14 other white supremacist leaders.


So basically flipped and got a 3-year sentence. Whoever cut the deal with this guy now has three dead people on his hands, as they should have gotten him for weapons and attempted murder or whatever charges go with plotting to kill someone.

This wasn't someone who just came out of the woodwork like other mass shootings recently. He was a known threat who was allowed to walk so they could get other guys. From what I heard on the radio he was caught with a massive stockpile of illegal weapons.

Now, if this country viewed a mass stockpile weapons as something, well, dangerous, or perhaps indicative of a seriously imbalanced and dangerous mental state, we might have different results today, as he might have been bargaining down from life to 20 years. As it was, three years.

Do you know anything about the guys he testified against?

 

[Clifford]

Ultimately no, I haven't had the chance to research it since I heard about it on the radio a couple of hours ago. They didn't even give the year of the trial, but the guy from the SPLC said it was a big one. Most likely the prosecutor didn't have a big hammer to hang over the guy as his charges were basically possession of illegal weapons and whatever they could string together about the plot.

ETA: Here's his profile on the SPLC

http://www.splcenter.org/get%20informed/intelligence%20files/profiles/Glenn%20Miller

Pretty much definitive source on extremists in the US. I actually wrote a few of these things for them.

Excerpt:

It took less than a year for Miller and the White Patriot Party to violate the consent order. The SPLC obtained photographic evidence of active-duty Marines helping train his members. In a July 1986 trial, in which Dees acted as a special prosecutor to assist federal prosecutors, Miller was found guilty of criminal contempt. One witness testified he had procured weapons and explosives, including 13 armor-penetrating anti-tank rockets, from military personnel on behalf of Miller, after the settlement. He also said he received a duffel bag full of cash as payment to conduct training intended to help “create a paramilitary guerrilla unit for later use in establishing a White Southland.” Miller was sentenced to a year in prison, with six months of that term suspended. He was also ordered to disassociate himself from the White Patriot Party and avoid contact with white supremacists.

In October of that year, while out on bond awaiting an appeal of his conviction, Miller wrote to North Carolina’s governor, asking for an appointment to the Governor’s Task Force on Racial, Religious and Ethnic Violence and Intimidation. He said he would be willing to publicly discourage racial violence and act as a liaison to “the many White groups in North Carolina.”

But, in 1987, while still out on bond, Miller disappeared and went underground. He mailed a "Declaration of War" to supporters, exhorting “Aryan warriors of The Order” to kill “our enemies,” and established a point system for each kill. The targets were: “s (1), White race traitors (10), Jews (10), Judges (50) Morris Seligman Dees (888).” He signed the statement “Glenn Miller, loyal member of ‘The Order.’”

The FBI caught up with Miller and four other Klansmen in Springfield, Mo., where he was tear-gassed out of a mobile home. Authorities found hand grenades, automatic weapons, thousands of rounds of ammunition, the explosive C-4, and $14,000 in cash. He and the others were indicted for conspiracy to acquire stolen military weapons, explosives and equipment, and for planning robberies and the assassination of Dees. Miller pleaded guilty to a weapons charge and to sending a threat through the mail. He served three years in federal prison, mostly in Otisville, N.Y. As part of his plea deal, he agreed to testify against 14 leading white supremacists in a sedition trial.

 

[T Bell]

Ultimately no, I haven't had the chance to research it since I heard about it on the radio a couple of hours ago. They didn't even give the year of the trial, but the guy from the SPLC said it was a big one. Most likely the prosecutor didn't have a big hammer to hang over the guy as his charges were basically possession of illegal weapons and whatever they could string together about the plot.

Without that information you don't know whether it was "worth it" or not to plead him out. For all we know those guys were more dangerous and more lives would have been lost.

I agree that examining that prior deal is justified here, but I'd love to know, for example, what the SPLC's opinion of it is now under the circumstances.