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Should I veto this trade? (1 Viewer)

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Bunny Princess

Footballguy
25 player dynasty leagueTeam A trades Plaxico Burress and Kenny Watson to Team B for William Green and Marcus Robinson. A few owners have complained about it. Should I veto it?

 

BigJim®

Footballguy
Team B is definitely using his own valuation system because most would agree he's getting taken to the cleaners. However, unless it's collusion I would not veto. Do the other owners suspect collusion or stupidity?

 

lloyd christmas

Footballguy
i dont understand the point of commish vetos. if theyre not cheating, let it go. what if the NFL vetoed the bengals draft picks for 10+ years?

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with that trade. In most scoring systems I'd rather be the team getting Green, but its not lopsided.If you give in to whining now, you'll establish a bad precedent, and everyone will complain about every trade. Don't let that happen!

 

RedRaiders

Mr. +EV
No way you can even consider that. you have to look at trades three ways (or at least i do): 1) Does it help both teams? (not lopsided) 2) is there collusion? 3) are both teams happy? Both teams are happy - its their teams and not your place to mess with it.Good luck with it.

 

Bunny Princess

Footballguy
Team B is definitely using his own valuation system because most would agree he's getting taken to the cleaners. However, unless it's collusion I would not veto. Do the other owners suspect collusion or stupidity?
Exactly my thoughts. One of the guys is new this year, so we're thinking this is an obvious case of collusion. I'm pretty set on vetoing it...all of you who are saying not to, convince me why I shouldn't!
 

Varmint

Footballguy
Man, get your finger off the trigger...You ain't here to make sure trades are fair ANYWAY....You sould only veto IF you smell "COLLUSION"...look it up.

 

Greg R

Footballguy
Another example of why the veto system should be thrown out, and replaced with a system allowing non-trading teams to make counter-offers that the trading teams can switch to instead.

 

Gaylord Focker

Footballguy
Exactly my thoughts. One of the guys is new this year, so we're thinking this is an obvious case of collusion. I'm pretty set on vetoing it...all of you who are saying not to, convince me why I shouldn't!
Since this is a FBG's forum, I'll use FBG overall rankings:William Green = #24

Plaxico Burress = #27

(leave Watson and Robinson out of it, these 2 are the heart of the deal anyways.)

These players are too close to call it a blatant case of collusion. It's not lopside. One player prefers a strong WR to another's RB. That's the whole point of FF. :wacko:

 

Greg R

Footballguy
Exactly my thoughts. One of the guys is new this year, so we're thinking this is an obvious case of collusion. I'm pretty set on vetoing it...all of you who are saying not to, convince me why I shouldn't!
Did you mean, one of the guys is new so this is an obvious case of the guy not making the best deal he could have?If not, why is it that his being new makes it obvious that he and the other owner are cheating? And if so, why are you vetoing the trade but not talking about throwing them out of your league?
 
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lrecupero

Footballguy
you are obviously closer to this situation than I am, but I can't draw this as an obvious case of collusion. Especially w/o personally knowing the participants. While I would personally rather have the package with Green, W/O seeing each guys team or the league's scoring system, I can't say for a fact that team B is getting raped. Keep in mind perceived stupidity should be no reason to veto a deal. Maybe the guy getting Burress and Watson knows something about the Washington RB situation that the rest of the world doesn't or has a hunch. Anyway it should be his bed to sleep in. Finally, New Guy making a trade doesn't necessarily equal collsusion.

 

DeadStroke

Footballguy
If you're even considering vetoing this trade, you should step down as commish. It's an absolute travesty. Perhaps you're joking??? If you're serious, post the rosters of Team A and Team B, as well as the starting lineup requirements.

 

aaronr28

Moderator
where's Sandbagger when we need him?This post was a waste of time. I can't believe anybody would consider vetoing that trade.

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
One of the guys is new this year, so we're thinking this is an obvious case of collusion. I'm pretty set on vetoing it...all of you who are saying not to, convince me why I shouldn't!
How can a trade of two fairly evenly valued players (and two useless throw-ins) be "obvious" collusion? Maybe its a dumb trade, but its not the type of trade that seriously changes the balance of power in your league. If I was going to collude, I'd be smart enough to rip the other guy off. Real collusion would be something more along the lines of Watson and M-Rob for Plax and Green.You said one guy was new this year, but that doesn't mean he's cheating. I actually think that makes it less likely. When a new owner takes over a dynasty team, its usually going to be littered with players he doesn't like. Maybe he inherited William Green on his team, hates him and thinks he sucks, and wanted to get rid of him ASAP. (I dunno if its even the new guy that is dealing Green, but its just a thought).
 

cobalt27

Footballguy
Princess, trust me, you don't want to veto this trade. Speaking as a commissioner of 16 years (who's vetoed one deal in all those years), you better be sure as hell you've got evidence of collusion before you start throwing heavy words like that around in your league. You basically won't have a league very soon if you reject trades like that, which I think is perfectly even.Even if you don't like the deal one way or another, do not--I repeat DO NOT--get involved in evaluating the relative strengths/weaknesses of ANY deal. The only thing you need be concerned with is whether the trade either (a) is obvious collusion or (b) is so absurdley weighted towards one owner at the expense of another that it jeopardizes the competitive balance of your league.This trade clearly doesn't even remotely approach either of those criteria.Let it go. You don't want your first veto to be struck on this deal.

 

Bunny Princess

Footballguy
Another example of why the veto system should be thrown out, and replaced with a system allowing non-trading teams to make counter-offers that the trading teams can switch to instead.
Ummmm...I'm not sure what you are talking about a veto system. Basically a few owners have complained so I'm not gonna allow this trade.
 

M go blue

Footballguy
No way you should veto this trade. Many people think Plaxico could be a top 5 WR this year. Many others think Green is going to be a total flop.No way can you make their projections for both owners and decide your judgment is better than theirs. I would guess the guy getting Plaxico believes in him, hated suffering through Green's first half last year and thinks Jamel White and Lee Suggs could reduce Green's touches. Totally legit point of view.In my league (1 pt per rec scoring), I have Plaxico with a better VBD value than Green (because Jamel White will be catching more than a few passes Green should be getting). I could not be faulted for drafting Plax first. So, how could an owner be faulted for trading Green to get him?Just because running backs are scarce does not mean that trading one for a stud receiver is a bad trade.Antsports.com has William Green going, on average, at 2.11 in twelve team leagues. Plaxico is selected, on average, at 3.07. There is no way that they are so far apart in value that this can be considered collusion or even that bad a trade.As the post above said, you shouldn't be considering a veto.I hope you are fishing.

 

cobalt27

Footballguy
Ummmm...I'm not sure what you are talking about a veto system. Basically a few owners have complained so I'm not gonna allow this trade.
Well, there goes your short career as a commish.
 

Bunny Princess

Footballguy
Did you mean, one of the guys is new so this is an obvious case of the guy not making the best deal he could have?If not, why is it that his being new makes it obvious that he and the other owner are cheating? And if so, why are you vetoing the trade but not talking about throwing them out of your league?
This is a $500/person league so the stakes are high. I can't just throw someone out who has paid $500, especially on a 'hunch' that he is colluding. I just think that the only fair thing to do is to veto the trade so that no harm is done.
 

KING

Footballguy
the bunny princess as a commissioner. :no: :rotflmao: if you have to ask others how to run your own league, then it's time to step down now.

 

lrecupero

Footballguy
Ummmm...I'm not sure what you are talking about a veto system. Basically a few owners have complained so I'm not gonna allow this trade.
Gotta be fishin here .. and mighty sucessfully I might add
 

aaronr28

Moderator
Ummmm...I'm not sure what you are talking about a veto system. Basically a few owners have complained so I'm not gonna allow this trade.
the worst commishes are the ones that are easily swayed by the opinions of a few owners. be a man and tell them the trade stands. otherwise, they will continue to try and manipulate you into doing whatever they want you to do.you're supposed to be unbiased and fair...and vetoing this trade is a very, very bad decision, IMO unless you have more information that you're not sharing with us.
 
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Dog

Footballguy
This is making me angry! Last year I had a trade vetoed for no apparent reason, other than the fact I was probably getting the better end of the deal. No collusion suspected, just stupidity on the other end. I would have gotten Tiki and Hilliard (who soon after got hurt) for Staley and Keyshawn. And this is after Staley started putting up decent numbers! So hands off commish. :rant: :hot: :rant:

 

bagger

Footballguy
where's Sandbagger when we need him?

This post was a waste of time. I can't believe anybody would consider vetoing that trade.
i apologize. i was in orange county for a wedding so i've been gone all weekend.:pushes big red button:

WARNING

this thread has triggered the sandbagger anti-collusion thread response ©.

as always, this is not a collusive trade.

we now take you back to your regularly scheduled shark pool postings.

 

cobalt27

Footballguy
If you're not fishing, Bunny, and you are just the reflex to the voices of your league owners, then maybe it's best you rethink your strategy of coming in here, looking for advice, having everyone universally advise you one way and then announce you're going the other way. Just bad form. If you want the sharks' advice, be sincere about evaluating it then.

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
This is a $500/person league so the stakes are high. I can't just throw someone out who has paid $500, especially on a 'hunch' that he is colluding. I just think that the only fair thing to do is to veto the trade so that no harm is done.
Good lord! If I paid $500 to play in a league, I'd want to be allowed to run my own team.If it were me, and that trade got shot down, I'd demand a refund. I suspect the involved parties may do the same.The overwhelming majority has told you to allow the trade. Trust us, we know what we're talking about.
 

Bunny Princess

Footballguy
If you're even considering vetoing this trade, you should step down as commish. It's an absolute travesty. Perhaps you're joking??? If you're serious, post the rosters of Team A and Team B, as well as the starting lineup requirements.
Ok, I don't really feel like listing all 25 players, but here are the starters and key backups for each team before the trade:start 1 qb, 2 rb, 3 wr, 1 te, 1 k, 1 dteam 1QB:FavreRB:Fred Taylor, Antowain Smith, Michael BennettWR:Plaxico Burress, Joe Horn, Rod Gardner, Jerry Rice, Koren Robinsonteam 2QB:CulpepperRB:William Green, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Kevan BarlowWR:Randy Moss, Darrell Jackson, Josh Reed, Marc Boerighter, Johnny Morton
 

KING

Footballguy
This is a $500/person league so the stakes are high. I can't just throw someone out who has paid $500, especially on a 'hunch' that he is colluding. I just think that the only fair thing to do is to veto the trade so that no harm is done.
holy #### :shock: i can't believe that. i wouldn't worry about ANY off the wall trades in that league, because those owners would have to be total idiots, i'm talking real morons, to atty up 500 bucks to you, and have you as a commish. where do you find people that dumb, with that much cash to spare?
 

Varmint

Footballguy
Did you mean, one of the guys is new so this is an obvious case of the guy not making the best deal he could have?If not, why is it that his being new makes it obvious that he and the other owner are cheating?   And if so, why are you vetoing the trade but not talking about throwing them out of your league?
This is a $500/person league so the stakes are high. I can't just throw someone out who has paid $500, especially on a 'hunch' that he is colluding. I just think that the only fair thing to do is to veto the trade so that no harm is done.
so...your FIRST stint as a Commissioner is running a $500 per team league?You'd better hope that nobody has your address......chances are they'll NEVER find your body....at least if you vetoed THAT trade in my league..It's your funeral. :lol:
 
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Gaylord Focker

Footballguy
Good lord! If I paid $500 to play in a league, I'd want to be allowed to run my own team.

If it were me, and that trade got shot down, I'd demand a refund. I suspect the involved parties may do the same.

The overwhelming majority has told you to allow the trade. Trust us, we know what we're talking about.
Good Lord, if I paid $500 to play in a league, I'd want a better commish! :excited:
 

Bunny Princess

Footballguy
the bunny princess as a commissioner. :no: :rotflmao: if you have to ask others how to run your own league, then it's time to step down now.
Hey, its my first year as commish so I'm asking for some help. Sorry, not everyone is as perfect as you.
 

aaronr28

Moderator
where's Sandbagger when we need him?

This post was a waste of time. I can't believe anybody would consider vetoing that trade.
i apologize. i was in orange county for a wedding so i've been gone all weekend.:pushes big red button:

WARNING

this thread has triggered the sandbagger anti-collusion thread response ©.

as always, this is not a collusive trade.

we now take you back to your regularly scheduled shark pool postings.
ahh...now things can get back to normal around here :thumbup:
 

btmack316

Footballguy
25 player dynasty leagueTeam A trades Plaxico Burress and Kenny Watson to Team B for William Green and Marcus Robinson. A few owners have complained about it. Should I veto it?
you need to look at each team's surrounding cast.for example...if team A is stacked at WR, but very weak at RB.....and team B is stacked at RB, but very weak at WR, then I think its a fair trade.let's be realistic here...watson and robinson are fluff. it really comes down to burress for william green.the guy who's taking slick willie is taking a chance too here. burress has already put up back-back 1,000 yard seasons, while green only started coming on the 2nd half of last year. he's not a #1 RB right now whereas burress is listed almost everwhere as a #1 WR. to each his own.again, need to know more about the team makeups of each party i think.
 

lrecupero

Footballguy
I just read thru sandbaggers thread. and Bunny this was your post. End of discussion!!! Or was that another Bunny princessBunny Princess Posted: Aug 14 2003, 12:01 AM FootballguyGroup: MembersPosts: 201Member No.: 4973Joined: 21-June 03 The absolute best explanation I have ever heard about this issue is this:If you have to ask, then it is not collusion.In other words, the only way a trade should be overturned is if you are totally positive that it is completely unfair.

 
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cobalt27

Footballguy
Hey, its my first year as commish so I'm asking for some help. Sorry, not everyone is as perfect as you.
Okay, so if you're asking for help, why are you ignoring the 100% majority of opinions that say let it go?
 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
Ok, I don't really feel like listing all 25 players, but here are the starters and key backups for each team before the trade:start 1 qb, 2 rb, 3 wr, 1 te, 1 k, 1 dteam 1QB:FavreRB:Fred Taylor, Antowain Smith, Michael BennettWR:Plaxico Burress, Joe Horn, Rod Gardner, Jerry Rice, Koren Robinsonteam 2QB:CulpepperRB:William Green, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Kevan BarlowWR:Randy Moss, Darrell Jackson, Josh Reed, Marc Boerighter, Johnny Morton
LOL... I was trying to help, but I'm not going to waste my time anymore. This is obviously a fishing trip.The trade CLEARLY services the needs of both teams. I might even go as far as to say its a perfect example of a mutually beneficial deal.
 
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