Should Lovie had made a change at QB going into the 4th QTR? (1 Viewer)

[bigreese82]

What are you thinking about Lovie and his decision to stick with Grossman?

 

[tlovyankee]

I would not blame the lost of the game on Grossman. Indy played a great game and they kept the Chicago D on the field for a long time. The times Grossman did get in he could not get settled in and could not find his groove. Yes he did miss 2 snaps but that will happen when you are sitting on the bench for that long. I am not a Grossman supporter but I do not put all of the blame on him.

 

[Slider]

Going into the 4th quarter? He should have done it 8 weeks ago.

 

[Frank Black]

Live or die with Rex. They should have given Griese more playing time late in the season, particularly after they clinched home field advantage.

 

[ericttspikes]

No. Why do people think the guy with the clip board is the answer?

All those clamoring for Griese got their answer week 17. He looked terrible vs. the Pack going 5-15 with 2 picks. Rex was the best QB on the Bears this year. I don't buy for a minute that the coaching staff just plays Rex because they like the guy or are coddling him. If Griese or Orton showed something more than Rex they would of been in there during the regular season.

 

[Frank Black]

No. Why do people think the guy with the clip board is the answer? All those clamoring for Griese got their answer week 17. He looked terrible vs. the Pack going 5-15 with 2 picks.

I don't think it's realistic to expect a backup to always come off the bench and light it up the first time he plays, particularly when you have short a short time sample. It would have been interesting to see Griese play an entire game or even 3 quarters. Playing him only for a half was not giving him enough time on the field to show what he could do.

 

[ericttspikes]

No. Why do people think the guy with the clip board is the answer? All those clamoring for Griese got their answer week 17. He looked terrible vs. the Pack going 5-15 with 2 picks.

I don't think it's realistic to expect a backup to always come off the bench and light it up the first time he plays, particularly when you have short a short time sample. It would have been interesting to see Griese play an entire game or even 3 quarters. Playing him only for a half was not giving him enough time on the field to show what he could do.

O.k., but then it's back to the argument that for some reason other than ability that Rex was the starter last year, and I don't buy that at all. These coaches see a player everyday in practice and know what they bring to the field. I just don't buy it that somehow Lovie benched their best QB all year.Going into this year I fully expected Griese to take over by week 6, but it didn't happen. Rex lit it up early and obviously showed the coaches what he can do. Sure he stunk up several games including the Super Bowl, but I don't see any reason to believe that Griese would of done anything differently.

 

[CalBear]

I think once you've stuck with him for the whole season, you have to stick with him in the game.

I don't think they should have stuck with him for the whole season.

 

[Pipes]

I think once you've stuck with him for the whole season, you have to stick with him in the game.I don't think they should have stuck with him for the whole season.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think once you've stuck with him for the whole season, you have to stick with him in the game.I don't think they should have stuck with him for the whole season.

I said all along Grossman would cost them and he did. I think he should have tried Griese because Rex obviously doesn't have it, and certainly didn't have it yesterday - you might have gotten a lucky Griese performance. Ultimately I don't think it would have mattered, the Colts would have won - as would any of the other three AFC teams in the divisional round.Until the Bears get a real QB they won't be able to win the Championship.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Some people think they can solve any problem in life by completely over-reacting.

That way if their over-reaction fails, they can always say - well I tried, I did "Something."

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's Brian Griese people! The best thing he's done lately is go a few years without a starting gig so everyone could forget how bad he is.

 

[saintfool]

lovie should have kept with him. he looked terrible much of the game but then again, he looked terrible much of the game against the Saints and they still won. He could have done the same thing with another ridiculous reception to Berrian and they would have right back in it. Sadly, the offense wasn't really the problem but rather the defense was yesterday. They were manhandled by the Colts. Sure, Rex sucked but they knew that going in. They had relied on their defense to keep them in, if not win outright, games. The Bears defense had small victories like holding the Colts to FG's but they lost everything else.

 

[rockbottom895]

Is this actually a serious question? Of COURSE you DO NOT go with Greese in the 4th quarter. Although Rex is more mistake prone, he has a much better arm than Greese, and could have helped the bears come back from the deficit they faced. Greese couldnt.

 

[BaBastage]

Here's a question - Is there superbowl precedent of a losing team making a QB change and then coming back to win?

I was wondering around halftime about that call (pulling Grossman, or let him play out the SB).

Not that I blame Grossman entirely for the loss. He was inconsistent all season, to be sure, but his play in those conditons wasn't horrible... just not good.

 

[jonessed]

I'm not so sure a QB change would have mattered. If Rex doesn't throw those picks he takes sacks and the drives die anyway. The game was lost on the line. The Bears couldn't get to Peyton and they couldn't keep Rex upright. Jones had a few great runs, but most of the time he had nowhere to run where as Addai and Rhodes were getting all kinds of space. The Bears would have required something substantially better than even Griese on his best day to win that game.

 

[Spartans Rule]

It's Brian Griese people! The best thing he's done lately is go a few years without a starting gig so everyone could forget how bad he is.

Never understood all the hate Griese gets.His career completion percentage is 63%... career Y/A of 7.0. In 2004, he completed 69% of his passes and had a 7.8 Y/A, and in 2005 the Bucs were 5-1 with him before he got hurt.Yeah, he doesn't have the strongest arm, and he throws his share of picks. But he is a very accurate passer, and teams have won with him.I agree with the comments about not switching your QB during the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. But I think if they went with Griese from the start, the Bears would be celebrating now. I'd take him over lots of current starting QBs.

 

[MSULions]

he should have replaced him in the fourth GAME!

Has there ever been a QB controversy on any team in the Super bowl before?

 

[cstu]

Rex didn't blow it until the 4th quarter and they were within 5 points. Without those 2 INT's the Bears could have won the game.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

Yes. Lovie should have made a switch by pulling Urlacher well before the 4th quarter, considering they were being gashed for 10 yards a pop that dynamo Domonic Rhodes.

An 8 minute drive to open the 3rd quarter?? There's plenty of blame to go around. Grossman, Urlacher, Lovie, Rivera, etc.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

The funny thing is Grossman ended up 20 of 28.

If he doesn't underthrow that pass to Berrian, it probably would have gone for a TD, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[aerolaw]

he should have replaced him in the fourth GAME! Has there ever been a QB controversy on any team in the Super bowl before?

worst coaching decision regarding qb in super bowl in my memory was don shula not replacing david woodley with don strock til the dolphins were down 10 in the 4th qtr against the redskins in 83 SB. woodley had 4 (FOUR!) completions i believe to that point in the game(mid 4th qtr.)

 

[mad sweeney]

So Griese's on his fourth team in 5 years because he's good, right? It'snot like it's Steve Young as the backup, or even Vince Young. Griese got knocked out by his own players at a party in Denver and couldn't beat out the likes of AJ Feely or Chris Simms. While Grossman was bad, looked lost at times and lost the grip on the ball twice sealing their fate he was not the worst aspect of their loss. No reason to replace him with a drunk ####### who has no deep ball.

 

[Banger]

The funny thing is Grossman ended up 20 of 28.

If he doesn't underthrow that pass to Berrian, it probably would have gone for a TD, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

That really means nothing. When you are throwing a 2 yard completion when it's 3rd and 6 it's not a good play although it is a completion. He was bad. Although to replace him would make no sense at all.

 

[mlball77]

The funny thing is Grossman ended up 20 of 28.

If he doesn't underthrow that pass to Berrian, it probably would have gone for a TD, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

That really means nothing. When you are throwing a 2 yard completion when it's 3rd and 6 it's not a good play although it is a completion. He was bad. Although to replace him would make no sense at all.

Agreed. Grossman exhibited horrible decision making again, and had two picks, one lost fumble, one other fumble and one trip and loss of ten yards. Mentally and physically he had a bad game.He finally completed a bunch of passes in his last drive or two, but Indy gave that to him in order to avoid a deep play.

Although I don't feel he should have been benched during the SB, I was on board with giving Griese a crack around week 10. I still think he should have gotten an opportunity just to see what they had. Rex's play opened the door for it. CHI brought in a competent vet in case of injury to Rex or in case he proved to not be "the guy." This is a team that can win now, so I don't think Lovie or mgmt should get too hung up on the "QB of the future" concept with Rex.

 

[jurb26]

Grossman was had 12 pass attempts, 8 completions 56 yds, 1 TD and 0 Ints heading into the 4th quarter. It is absurd to say he should have been pulled at that point. He killed the Bears chances of winning with 2 awful throws in the 4th quarter. At that point, it was too late.

 

[3nOut]

As poorly as Grossman played, I wouldn't even put him in the top three reasons why the bears lost:

1. Offensive play calling. They should have been throwing short to Clark in the first quarter not fourth and run more often. The play selection should have been designed to keep Manning off the field. They should have done what the Colts were doing to them.

2. Defensive play calling. They got burned on a long pass which was simply blown coverage. They overreacted and played so that Manning didn't beat them long again. This allowed Manning to pass short all night, gain 5-10 yards at a time, chew up the clock, keep Chicago's offense off the field, and tired out the Bears D. Brilliant gameplan. I like Rivera, but...

3. Offensive line. The coaching staff should have known by now that Rex panics when under pressure. When the O Line plays poorly, so does Rex. Yes Rex made some ill-advised throws, but if the O lin e played better, he would have been more relaxed.

 

[mlball77]

Grossman was had 12 pass attempts, 8 completions 56 yds, 1 TD and 0 Ints heading into the 4th quarter. It is absurd to say he should have been pulled at that point. He killed the Bears chances of winning with 2 awful throws in the 4th quarter. At that point, it was too late.

I don't think he should have been pulled at that point either... but lets not forget to mention his two fumbles (one lost) and one unassisted trip for about a 10 yard loss.

 

[DrJ]

Grossman was had 12 pass attempts, 8 completions 56 yds, 1 TD and 0 Ints heading into the 4th quarter. It is absurd to say he should have been pulled at that point. He killed the Bears chances of winning with 2 awful throws in the 4th quarter. At that point, it was too late.

I don't think he should have been pulled at that point either... but lets not forget to mention his two fumbles (one lost) and one unassisted trip for about a 10 yard loss.

Unassisted? I'd say the virtually unblocked lineman bearing down on him probably helped a little...Blame Rex for that play if you like, but they should have been trying to establish a run on 2nd and 1. If not, at least block somebody...

 

[CalBear]

If he doesn't underthrow that pass to Berrian, it probably would have gone for a TD, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yes, if he were a better QB, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Hamstring]

Grossman was had 12 pass attempts, 8 completions 56 yds, 1 TD and 0 Ints heading into the 4th quarter. It is absurd to say he should have been pulled at that point. He killed the Bears chances of winning with 2 awful throws in the 4th quarter. At that point, it was too late.

I don't think he should have been pulled at that point either... but lets not forget to mention his two fumbles (one lost) and one unassisted trip for about a 10 yard loss.

Unassisted? I'd say the virtually unblocked lineman bearing down on him probably helped a little...Blame Rex for that play if you like, but they should have been trying to establish a run on 2nd and 1. If not, at least block somebody...

A play action call is more appropriate, but they split Jones wide making it an all pass play. BAd call and bad execution. The unforced errors were brutal for the Bears. That's what pissed me off the most.

 

[AB in DC]

Remember, going into the fourth quarter Rex had no interceptions and a relatively high completion %. Not a lot of yards or YPA, but he wasn't choking, either.

 

[Hamstring]

While the game plan can be questioned all day. The fact is they had the ball with 10 minutes left down by five. The Colts had converted the turnovers into 0 points. They needed Rex to make a couple plays as he had in the first two playoff games and he didn't.

 

[428143]

This game was a a coin toss till the ball slipped out of Grossman's hand. I'd demand Lovie's job if he made the move in the 4th quarter of the SuperBowl.

 

[CalBear]

This game was a a coin toss till the ball slipped out of Grossman's hand.

Which time? The fumble, or the other fumble, or the interception, or the other interception?

 

[jurb26]

Remember, going into the fourth quarter Rex had no interceptions and a relatively high completion %. Not a lot of yards or YPA, but he wasn't choking, either.

While I do feel the conditions had something to do with the fumbles. I'd have to say watching the game, I felt like fumbling twice was choking. At least a little bit.

 

[AB in DC]

Botched snap <> choke

There's no way a TV viewer could say for sure that they were Grossman's fault and not the center's.

 

[Gr00vus]

If he doesn't underthrow that pass to Berrian, it probably would have gone for a TD, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yes, if he were a better QB, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It was obvious to me the Bears were afraid to open up the offense because they were concerned about how Rex would screw up. His completion percentage prior to his second half melt down was a product of an incredibly conservative offensive game plan necessitated by having a guy who will be out of the league in two years as the starting quarterback. There were several throws during the game which Griese could have made that Rex wasn't within a mile of making, you at least have to give it a try.

 

[AB in DC]

It was obvious to me the Bears were afraid to open up the offense because they were concerned about how Rex would screw up. His completion percentage prior to his second half melt down was a product of an incredibly conservative offensive game plan necessitated by having a guy who will be out of the league in two years as the starting quarterback. There were several throws during the game which Griese could have made that Rex wasn't within a mile of making, you at least have to give it a try.

Okay, I'm no Rex supporter, but this is an absolute joke. The guy has started 23 regular season games. Almost every QB in the league looked mediocre in their first 23 starts.

 

[Gr00vus]

It was obvious to me the Bears were afraid to open up the offense because they were concerned about how Rex would screw up. His completion percentage prior to his second half melt down was a product of an incredibly conservative offensive game plan necessitated by having a guy who will be out of the league in two years as the starting quarterback. There were several throws during the game which Griese could have made that Rex wasn't within a mile of making, you at least have to give it a try.

Okay, I'm no Rex supporter, but this is an absolute joke. The guy has started 23 regular season games. Almost every QB in the league looked mediocre in their first 23 starts.

Really?2006 was Grossman's 4th year in the NFL. On a cursory glance of all the qbs who've played 4 or more seasons, started more than 8 games in their fourth season and were full time starters in 2006, the only guy who had a worse QB rating at the point in his career that Grossman is now is ....... Jake Plummer. If you add in guys with less than 4 years experience but who've started more than 8 games in their most recent season only one other guy gets added to the list.....Vince Young. Two guys, in the whole current NFL pool of starting QBs, had ratings worse than Grossman does. And I don't see anything in Grossman that would offset his deficiencies like what Plummer or Vince Young have. Also at the point Grossman is in his career most other NFL QBs in this consideration have done much better than Grossman. Consider David Carr, now completing his 5th year much maligned and possibly out of a job in Houston, his last 3 qb ratings have been 83.5, 77.2, 82.1.

Rex had a 73.9 in his 4th year. His best so far was 74.8 in 3 games his first season.

Beyond the numbers, the guy is obviously completely overmatched on the field. He looks lost, his throws are awful, his decision making is terrible, he's easily rattled, etc. The list of negatives is very long. I see nothing in him to think he'll be an NFL quarterback for much longer. Contrast him to Tony Romo, who is also in his 4th year and only got his first regular season snap this year - his rating was 95.1. Romo too made some bonehead mistakes this year which you could chalk up to inexperience, but the difference in his overall game compared to Grossman's is gigantic. You could take Phil Rivers as an example as well - he got his first start in his 3rd NFL season this year and had a 92.0 rating.

People like to point to Favre as an example of a guy who needed time/experience/coaching, that he was crazy, unpredictable and sometimes ineffective in his early career. In his 2nd season in the NFL he got his first snaps as an NFL starter, starting 13 games and had a rating of 85.3

Gus like Romo, Rivers even J.P. Lossman are on the brink of being good NFL qbs for years to come, Grossman is on the brink of needing to change careers. It's pretty easy to see.

 

[AB in DC]

2006 was Grossman's 4th year in the NFL. On a cursory glance of all the qbs who've played 4 or more seasons, started more than 8 games in their fourth season and were full time starters in 2006, the only guy who had a worse QB rating at the point in his career that Grossman is now is ....... Jake Plummer.

I'd hazard a guess that every single one of them had more playing experience than Grossman's 23 starts.

 

[AB in DC]

Heck, I'd bet that all of them had more practice reps in one year than fragile Grossman did in his first three combined.

 

[Hamstring]

It was obvious to me the Bears were afraid to open up the offense because they were concerned about how Rex would screw up. His completion percentage prior to his second half melt down was a product of an incredibly conservative offensive game plan necessitated by having a guy who will be out of the league in two years as the starting quarterback. There were several throws during the game which Griese could have made that Rex wasn't within a mile of making, you at least have to give it a try.

Okay, I'm no Rex supporter, but this is an absolute joke. The guy has started 23 regular season games. Almost every QB in the league looked mediocre in their first 23 starts.

Really?2006 was Grossman's 4th year in the NFL. On a cursory glance of all the qbs who've played 4 or more seasons, started more than 8 games in their fourth season and were full time starters in 2006, the only guy who had a worse QB rating at the point in his career that Grossman is now is ....... Jake Plummer. If you add in guys with less than 4 years experience but who've started more than 8 games in their most recent season only one other guy gets added to the list.....Vince Young. Two guys, in the whole current NFL pool of starting QBs, had ratings worse than Grossman does. And I don't see anything in Grossman that would offset his deficiencies like what Plummer or Vince Young have. Also at the point Grossman is in his career most other NFL QBs in this consideration have done much better than Grossman. Consider David Carr, now completing his 5th year much maligned and possibly out of a job in Houston, his last 3 qb ratings have been 83.5, 77.2, 82.1.

Rex had a 73.9 in his 4th year. His best so far was 74.8 in 3 games his first season.

Beyond the numbers, the guy is obviously completely overmatched on the field. He looks lost, his throws are awful, his decision making is terrible, he's easily rattled, etc. The list of negatives is very long. I see nothing in him to think he'll be an NFL quarterback for much longer. Contrast him to Tony Romo, who is also in his 4th year and only got his first regular season snap this year - his rating was 95.1. Romo too made some bonehead mistakes this year which you could chalk up to inexperience, but the difference in his overall game compared to Grossman's is gigantic. Romo is on the brink of being a good NFL qb for years to come, Grossman is on the brink of needing to change careers. It's pretty easy to see.

Using Romo as a "good" comparison is just hurting your argument.

 

[Gr00vus]

Using Romo as a "good" comparison is just hurting your argument.

Uh how exactly?

 

[Gr00vus]

2006 was Grossman's 4th year in the NFL. On a cursory glance of all the qbs who've played 4 or more seasons, started more than 8 games in their fourth season and were full time starters in 2006, the only guy who had a worse QB rating at the point in his career that Grossman is now is ....... Jake Plummer.

I'd hazard a guess that every single one of them had more playing experience than Grossman's 23 starts.

And you'd be absolutely wrong.

 

[Hamstring]

Because he isn't good. He might be good someday, but proclaiming he is doesn't make it true.

 

[Gr00vus]

Because he [Romo] isn't good. He might be good someday, but proclaiming he is doesn't make it true.

I disagree that he isn't good. He is. Watching him play you can see that guy is a player. The stats back it up.But let's take it your way for a minute. If Romo isn't good (your contention), had pretty much the same career history to date in terms of NFL experience and he posted a rating approximately 20 points higher than Rex (and looked a hell of a lot better than Rex while doing so) - what does that say about Rex?For the less lucid among us right now, I'll answer my own question - it means Rex is god awful.

 

[AB in DC]

One of the reasons that so many FF players are guppies is that they overemphasize what they see in a handful of recent games. Sharks know how to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Banger]

It was obvious to me the Bears were afraid to open up the offense because they were concerned about how Rex would screw up. His completion percentage prior to his second half melt down was a product of an incredibly conservative offensive game plan necessitated by having a guy who will be out of the league in two years as the starting quarterback. There were several throws during the game which Griese could have made that Rex wasn't within a mile of making, you at least have to give it a try.

Okay, I'm no Rex supporter, but this is an absolute joke. The guy has started 23 regular season games. Almost every QB in the league looked mediocre in their first 23 starts.

Really?2006 was Grossman's 4th year in the NFL. On a cursory glance of all the qbs who've played 4 or more seasons, started more than 8 games in their fourth season and were full time starters in 2006, the only guy who had a worse QB rating at the point in his career that Grossman is now is ....... Jake Plummer. If you add in guys with less than 4 years experience but who've started more than 8 games in their most recent season only one other guy gets added to the list.....Vince Young. Two guys, in the whole current NFL pool of starting QBs, had ratings worse than Grossman does. And I don't see anything in Grossman that would offset his deficiencies like what Plummer or Vince Young have. Also at the point Grossman is in his career most other NFL QBs in this consideration have done much better than Grossman. Consider David Carr, now completing his 5th year much maligned and possibly out of a job in Houston, his last 3 qb ratings have been 83.5, 77.2, 82.1.

Rex had a 73.9 in his 4th year. His best so far was 74.8 in 3 games his first season.

Beyond the numbers, the guy is obviously completely overmatched on the field. He looks lost, his throws are awful, his decision making is terrible, he's easily rattled, etc. The list of negatives is very long. I see nothing in him to think he'll be an NFL quarterback for much longer. Contrast him to Tony Romo, who is also in his 4th year and only got his first regular season snap this year - his rating was 95.1. Romo too made some bonehead mistakes this year which you could chalk up to inexperience, but the difference in his overall game compared to Grossman's is gigantic. Romo is on the brink of being a good NFL qb for years to come, Grossman is on the brink of needing to change careers. It's pretty easy to see.

Maybe this is worthy of it's own thread but QB rating really isn't a good tool to make any kind of evaluation on how good/bad a QB is. For instance Grossman was was something like 6/8 for 32 and a TD at some point in the 1st half and his QB rating was about 120 or so (if I remember correctly) but he was an absolute non-factor in the game except for the 3 yard TD he threw after they failed to run it in twice from the 3. As far as QB rating goes a 2 yard pass for a completion when it's 3rd and 6 is seen as a positive event when in reality it's worthless. It doesn't take into account sacks or fumbles both of which are big problems for Grossman. QB's like Favre/Manning who have an uncanny ability through their experience, blitz recognition, etc. to avoid sacks should somehow benefit (IMO) and QB's that are tackling dummies like Carr should be penalized in the rating because they are obviously huge drive killing plays that effect their respective offenses. QB rating also doesn't take running yardage into account which is obviously huge for QB's like Vick/Young.

QB rating is basically an evaluation on their completion % and the # of TD's/int's they throw but leaves some other huge categories out of the equation IMO. I really like some of the stats at footballoutsiders and although they aren't perfect they do a good job of comparing every play by every player against one another and determining their success rate adjusted for the strength of the defense they are playing. Again, it's not perfect but it gives a much better indication of "successful" a QB is in relation to every other player in their position. BTW Grossman was ranked 33rd among QB's this year.

 

[Gr00vus]

One of the reasons that so many FF players are guppies is that they overemphasize what they see in a handful of recent games. Sharks know how to look at the bigger picture.

Whatever sized picture you wan to take, Grossman looks like an awful NFL qb to me - I'm not talking about or looking at FF in any way shape or form here. Sometimes you can in fact make quick judgments when there's a preponderance of evidence. I don't need to look at Barbara Bush very long to know she is not hot, and will not become hot with more experience - I don't need to see much more of Rex to know he's not going to be a good NFL qb. I guess Craig Weilahan just didn't get enough experience too, I mean it wasn't obvious the guy couldn't cut it as an NFL QB early on and the Chargers should have stuck with him, right? What part of Grossman's game makes anyone think he'll be successful long term? I'm serious because I haven't heard it, and I sure as hell haven't seen it.