Should Older Men Be Publicly Shamed For Legally "Dating" Younger Women? (26/30) (1 Viewer)

[GordonGekko]

VIDEO: Joe (Rogan) on Leonardo DiCaprio & His Girlfriends | Joe Rogan Experience Feb 15, 2023 #1941

Taken from JRE #1941 w/Bridget Phetasy

One couple who hit the headlines for their relationship were Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Sam Taylor-Wood ( previously Samantha Wood) ....The pair began dating over a decade ago, when Aaron was a young actor making his name in the business and Sam was an established director....Aaron was about 18 when he met his now wife, who is 20 years older than him, on the set of the John Lennon biopic Nowhere Boy....While some people didn't quite agree with their relationship, given the considerable age gap, they went on to have two children together..... Sam, 55, says: "I feel like it’s one of the last taboos...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPaaRmc0Vvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYOdfQJd_P4



Direct Headline: Is It OK to Be This Annoyed About Older Men Who Date Much Younger Women?

BY HEATHER SCHWEDEL NOV 16, 2016

..... but older men getting romantically involved with younger women is hardly a rare phenomenon. Every day, there seems to be another outrageous new celebrity coupling announced via pictures of some May-December frolicking: Jennifer Lawrence sharing a lollipop with Darren Aronofsky; Sean Penn dating Vincent D’Onofrio’s daughter; Mel Gibson having his ninth child with his 26-year-old girlfriend; Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen double-dating with their 47-year-old and 58-year-old respective beaus; Leonardo DiCaprio’s sending another lady-love packing upon her reaching the ripe old age of 25.....

.... Older men who date much younger women make the transactional, hierarchical nature of romance explicit and reveal the extent to which men and women are still playing by very different rulebooks. In other areas of life, we gesture toward valuing things beyond the superficial. For most of us, in dating those things kind of go out the window, but then people tend to pair off with partners at about the same attractiveness level that they occupy. It all evens out. Except! Some older men have this secret other option, whereby they get to opt out of the system: When they acquire enough money or power, they can basically trade that capital for the thing women have that’s valued by society: youth and beauty. The pretense of finding someone who can be a partner and equal disappears; women both young and old get to see that all that really matters is how you look in a bikini. Meanwhile, women also watch their romantic options shrink as they age.....

....A caveat is necessary: You can’t help who you love.....The parties aren’t on equal footing; different experiences and life stages are inevitably going to make it harder to relate. Attention from an older man might feel flattering, but do your future self a solid and ask: Why isn’t this guy interested in people his own age?.... In the end, this is no time to be a traitor to your generation. Instead, find someone your own age who’s even hotter. Get you a man you can talk about Pokémon Go with—or get you a woman you can talk about the Carter administration with....

https://slate.com/human-interest/20...ho-date-younger-women-are-so-infuriating.html



Direct Headline: Why More Women Are Open to Dating Younger Men

By Romano Santos February 9, 2023

.... On TikTok, for example, people are opening up about the misconceptions about dating younger men. One survey also showed that 81 percent of women are open to dating someone 10 years younger than they are, and that nearly 90 percent of men are interested in dating someone 10 years older. This shows that more women are open to dating younger men and that more men are open to dating older women than most people might think.....According to Santos, it’s possible that a lot of those taboos are being challenged now because of advances in health and technology. It’s now easier for people, women or otherwise, to stay healthy as they get older. That means that health issues become less of a problem in these relationships. Another major obstacle older woman-younger man couples had to face in the past was how they would build their families. But with egg freezing and surrogate mothers, even that can be overcome....This kind of relationship also allows women who focused on their careers in their younger years to enter the dating pool with more options.....

....Of course, what attracts people to each other depends on each unique couple, and isn’t necessarily tied to their respective ages. But one expert said that there are many benefits for women dating younger men, like their partners having more energy and more diverse interests, as well as being more open to trying new things and more flexible with their attitudes and views..... But it’s entirely possible for two consenting adults, no matter how unusual society finds their pairing, to have healthy, loving relationships.....“If two consenting adults get into this kind of relationship, despite the fact that they know there are going to be challenges, then it’s more likely that it’s really based on a lot of thinking on their part, and it’s based on real love, and a real desire to build a solid relationship foundation.....”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7bdg9/older-women-dating-younger-men-relationships



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“People asked if I was his daughter. They ask all the time. Hoping, accusing. We never say yes, and we never say no.”

- Kirsteen Reed


"I hate to generalize, but in general, both men and women suffer from ageism. Men much less because men gain power as they get older. Women lose power as they get older. Men are seen as gaining experience and being distinguished. Sons look forward to replacing their fathers."

- Gloria Steinem


"When I get a letter that says, 'I'm 18 and have always been attracted to older men,' then it usually means that girl has no father."

- Lorne Greene



Here is another topic that is designed to increase discussion and participation in the FFA. ( Point to note, this is a discussion where all parties involved or to be discussed are considered legal consenting adults )

I believe this topic has absolutely no chance of delving into real world public policy issues, public administration conflict and generally anything politically related as long as people don't try to derail it with more complicated discussion invoking minors. Again, let's stick to a criteria involving those at or above the age of majority here.

Should older men be publicly shamed for legally dating younger women?

In reverse, should older women be publicly shamed for legally dating younger men?

What would you define for yourself as "older" and/or "younger" in these scenarios? How much of a raw age difference do you believe is acceptable for you? Or should be acceptable for other people?

If you have experienced "dating" and/or a formal relationship with someone who is much younger and/or much older ( and/or know someone very well who went through something like that), how was that experience? How did that turn out? What kind of reactions did you or they get from others? Any interesting stories you'd feel comfortable in sharing?

Do you feel there is a double standard? Which way? Why do you think it exists? Should it exist?


I'll leave this here for others to discuss. (26/30)

 

[Judge Smails]

If you make a good living, have a car and don’t live with your Mom you’re a catch. Nobody is forcing these women to date older guys.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

No, I don't think we should shame men for being normal heterosexuals. Why do you ask?

 

[Juxtatarot]

I’m not sure I agree with publicly shaming anyone. Perhaps it depends on what constitutes public shaming.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Shame me all you want. No way I’m dating most 50 year old women. Look and act like a bunch of old ladies.

 

[FairWarning]

Not my thing, but if neither side cares, so be it.

 

[GordonGekko]

No, I don't think we should shame men for being normal heterosexuals. Why do you ask?

VIDEO: Defiance (4/8) Movie CLIP - Sibling Rivalry (2008) HD Nov 22, 2011

The rivalry between the Bielski brothers (Daniel Craig Liev Schreiber) hits the breaking point and becomes physical....Tuvia (Craig), Zus (Schreiber), and Asael (Bell) have miraculously managed to escape into the dense surrounding forest. Having played in these woods since childhood, the brothers have a distinct advantage over their adversaries, and soon decide that simply surviving is not enough. In order to make a difference, they must take action, but in order to take action they will need support. As whispers of their bravery take wind, others like them appear determined to lay their lives on the line for the cause of freedom. Tuvia has become the de facto leader of the group, but he's still somewhat reluctant to take on such a heavy responsibility and his brother Zus expresses concern that his idealistic plan will ultimately bring about the group's downfall. ..... Is it possible to keep faith alive in a time when the world seems devoid of humanity and survival becomes a way of life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9LRWazyNC0


********

It's a good question that you have.

The thread topics I've been starting for the last month and a half do have an overarching narrative. In the video above, from the film Defiance, part of the tension between the two brothers is that Schreiber's character's wife died early in the film off screen. He later took a "forest wife", a woman from the city, as he correctly assesses, without the need for survival and desperation, would have probably turned her nose up at him in a previous time.

In their old life, the brothers were poor uneducated farmers. In this tragic situation, they are extremely high value men. They can hunt, track, fight, adapt and survive in harsh conditions. The women who link up with these men have a better chance to survive while the entire group is essentially being hunted. The key point being that most of the guys here who are regular posters are both parents and likely in their 50s. Combine this with the retirement thread I started and a few others about the struggles of young men in modern society, and I'm essentially softening the blow for an issue I've brought up before - gray divorce.

Women will dramatically shift their mating strategy based on utility. Without it, without the utter ruthlessness of it, the human race wouldn't have survived. Something I pointed out before is that we are all here today because of successful mating and pairing from generations past in our entire genetic line. Was it all civil? With consent? A product of real choice? Something I've addressed before in other topics is that most cavemen were probably rapists. And the cavewoman who wouldn't leave her mate with his broken leg while the rest of the tribe had to move on to better hunter/foraging grounds, probably died with children with him all alone. Who was more likely to survive? The altruistic cavewoman? Or the one, when she realized her mate died in a hunting party, schemed to steal another cavewoman's mate. Even if she had to cut that other cavewoman's throat by the river when isolated.

Something I said back in 2006 is a woman can marry a man for all kinds of reasons. Or desire to get into a long term relationship with him for all kinds of reasons. Maybe it's love. Maybe she was young and it was the only way to move out of her family home, which might have been rough. Maybe all her friends were pairing up and she didn't want to be left out. Maybe she wanted the social status of being a wife and being a mother. Maybe she was afraid of being alone. Maybe she wanted kids very quickly and above all else. Maybe she wanted financial security. Maybe she was bored.

Women pick men. Not the other way around. We can offer commitment by proposing marriage, but ultimately they choose us first. If a woman chooses a man here, if she chooses based on utility, what happens when that utility ends?

Very likely half the guys here now who are married will likely be divorced by their practical retirement. A good portion of them will be financially massacred. That's a big emotional and mental hit as well for many men. A large segment of that group won't see it coming. It will be, for all intents and purposes, a full on ambush.

Also many of the men here whom are parents have daughters. If I had a goddaughter instead of a godson, would I want her to be in her early 20s and in a relationship with a man twenty years older than her? No, not a chance. But I understand that's a double standard, as I regularly messed around with women far younger than me, legal of course, just about all of my life. Many men here might have to also endure their daughters with "boyfriends" who might be close to twice their age. Or more.

Just like the "forest wives" in the film Defiance, which was based on the actual social construct of those people in real life, the mating strategy adapts for the woman's greatest benefit.

I wish divorce upon no one. Even people I don't like. But it's going to happen more than people think. It will happen to people here. Now someone like @Woz or @Zow or whatever he calls himself today, will likely go on a full bender about how you can't unpack divorce trends that way. But the truth is someone like him is fully biased on a matter like that. Also he can't see what I see, mostly because I'm a far better lawyer. He won't be able to shed how he feels over how things work. There's a reason why so many young people aren't marrying today. While women choose, men still control proposals and the critical aspect of commitment. The base mercenary nature of most "relationships" has been exposed to the average young person. The gut wrenching transactional nature of it all.

No one ever wanted to see how the sausage was made. To go into the back of the kitchen. Now no one has a choice. Many of the guys here, their wives will one day see their female friends getting divorced en masse, then it will be trendy, and then what happens? Others here, their wives might be plotting long term on that divorce, edging in the shadows, setting the best time table for that ambush.

Marriage as a baseline is a fiduciary relationship. I wish it was more than that for most people, but it's not. Anyone who disagrees can find OG @dancingbones and ask him themselves.

You are a good egg Ivan. I've always liked you. You are reliable and steady, two traits that are valued highly amongst all men in closed off groups. And you've discussed your situation as stable and ideal. I think you'll be OK. But most of the rest of the guys here? Probably fully cooked. Many will be thrown back out onto the dating market, not by choice and past their prime, with only about a third of their previous asset base.

 

[bigbottom]

The ridiculous dig on Woz, who hasn’t even posted in this thread, seems both unwarranted and rude.

That said, the issue GG raises - sometimes called “grey divorce” - is a real concern. I’ve read that the divorce rate of people in their 50s and 60s is as much as 50%, often coming after 20+ years of marriage. I imagine there are many reasons for this, but it is worth making sure your 20+ year marriage is receiving proper care and feeding. That you are maintaining communication and intimacy. That you are continually developing and exploring common interests to sustain your relationship when you are empty nesters and your kids are no longer the focus of your family life, or you are retired and spending A LOT of time together. And to GG’s point, it’s important that each spouse continue to bring value to the relationship and their partner. A couple in their 50s likely have 30 full years of life ahead of them. That’s a long time to stay with someone if the partners in the marriage aren’t happy or fulfilled. Whether real or perceived, the idea of a happier life with someone else, or as a single person, is a temptation that can rapidly undermine a marriage, even a seemingly stable 20+ year union. I learned this the hard way when my 56-year-old father walked out on my mom, completely blowing up a 32-year marriage.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The ridiculous dig on Woz, who hasn’t even posted in this thread, seems both unwarranted and rude.

That said, the issue GG raises - sometimes called “grey divorce” - is a real concern. I’ve read that the divorce rate of people in their 50s and 60s is as much as 50%, often coming after 20+ years of marriage. I imagine there are many reasons for this, but it is worth making sure your 20+ year marriage is receiving proper care and feeding. That you are maintaining communication and intimacy. That you are continually developing and exploring common interests to sustain your relationship when you are empty nesters and your kids are no longer the focus of your family life, or you are retired and spending A LOT of time together. And to GG’s point, it’s important that each spouse continue to bring value to the relationship and their partner. A couple in their 50s likely have 30 full years of life ahead of them. That’s a long time to stay with someone if the partners in the marriage aren’t happy or fulfilled. Whether real or perceived, the idea of a happier life with someone else, or as a single person, is a temptation that can rapidly undermine a marriage, even a seemingly stable 20+ year union. I learned this the hard way when my 56-year-old father walked out on my mom, completely blowing up a 32-year marriage.

Ugh, sorry to hear about this.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Nobody should care who consenting adults choose to date.

 

[bigbottom]

The ridiculous dig on Woz, who hasn’t even posted in this thread, seems both unwarranted and rude.

That said, the issue GG raises - sometimes called “grey divorce” - is a real concern. I’ve read that the divorce rate of people in their 50s and 60s is as much as 50%, often coming after 20+ years of marriage. I imagine there are many reasons for this, but it is worth making sure your 20+ year marriage is receiving proper care and feeding. That you are maintaining communication and intimacy. That you are continually developing and exploring common interests to sustain your relationship when you are empty nesters and your kids are no longer the focus of your family life, or you are retired and spending A LOT of time together. And to GG’s point, it’s important that each spouse continue to bring value to the relationship and their partner. A couple in their 50s likely have 30 full years of life ahead of them. That’s a long time to stay with someone if the partners in the marriage aren’t happy or fulfilled. Whether real or perceived, the idea of a happier life with someone else, or as a single person, is a temptation that can rapidly undermine a marriage, even a seemingly stable 20+ year union. I learned this the hard way when my 56-year-old father walked out on my mom, completely blowing up a 32-year marriage.

Ugh, sorry to hear about this.

Oh geez, that happened nearly 30 years ago. Water under the bridge. Though the story does support GG’s description of the mercenary nature of marriage where an aging single woman hunts down another’s mate to increase her chance of survival.

 

[Sand]

Once someone turns 18 we as a country bestow upon them bodily autonomy, with all the perks and responsibilities that entails. If such an adult chooses to have a relationship with anyone else over that 18 line that's their choice and it should be respected.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I imagine there are many reasons for this, but it is worth making sure your 20+ year marriage is receiving proper care and feeding. That you are maintaining communication and intimacy. That you are continually developing and exploring common interests to sustain your relationship when you are empty nesters and your kids are no longer the focus of your family life, or you are retired and spending A LOT of time together. And to GG’s point, it’s important that each spouse continue to bring value to the relationship and their partner.

Great call.

Stats seem to verify that the grey divorce issue continues to grow in prevalence. No one wants to feel taken for granted, or even worse shunned. It takes work to keep a marriage going.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I wish divorce upon no one. Even people I don't like. But it's going to happen more than people think. It will happen to people here. Now someone like @Woz or @Zow or whatever he calls himself today, will likely go on a full bender about how you can't unpack divorce trends that way. But the truth is someone like him is fully biased on a matter like that. Also he can't see what I see, mostly because I'm a far better lawyer.

Oof.

 

[Keith R]

To the original question; whatever floats your boat so long as all are consenting adults