Arizona Ron
Footballguy
Why is his 1984 year book in black and white? Are they trying to make it look older than it is?
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Should someone be held accountable for racist remarks made 40 years ago? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
Hi the Virginia Governor should resign and also here’s the senate majority leader standing happily in front of the confererate flag.
https://twitter.com/ajentleson/status/1091538966413746182?s=21
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
How do you feel about how East Asians and gays (hell, anyone who wasn't straight and of NW Euro-descent) were portrayed in popular '80s movies? Same time frame.
Otis
Footballguy
What if this same thing appeared in a yearbook in 1955, or 1965? Same reaction? Or does it change at all?
I think it likely does work on a time continuum. In 1955, this would have likely been less surprising. If it were 2015, it would have been much worse.
My point is in 1984, this wasn't a "Oh hey, all the kids are doing" it. I'm about the same age as Northam. We knew good and well in 1984 this was uncool even for a party or prank where the only cameras around were real cameras. The chance of having it preserved was pretty slim back then.
But to think it was ok to print in the college yearbook is just baffling.
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Lots of that stuff is cringeworthy now. But as you say, it was popular and part of regular culture in the 80s.
Blackface and KKK "costumes" were WAY over the line in 1984 for most people.
With that said, maybe I don't know anything. Jimmy Kimmel still has a job https://youtu.be/5aPbefau2Zc and I'm assuming some people thought that was funny too.
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Otis
Footballguy
I definitely agree with the bolded. And again, multiple people presumably had to approve this, not just him. How the heck did that happen??
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
No accountability on the college for allowing this in their yearbook? Editor?
Otis
Footballguy
Exactly. Would love to see a copy of this yearbook and see who was the editor; was there a committee involved; any faculty involved; etc.?
Even if there is a non-hateful excuse or reason why this happened, just astoundingly bad judgement for numerous people involved here...
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Not busting on you, Joe. Just pointing out how hypocritical we all are and how (self-serving) the lines we draw in the sand are.
What was that movie in the '80s where the white dude put on blackface so he could get into college? That was a big hit.
ETA: Soul Man 1986.
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I hear you. I tire of the "It's terrible when it's the OTHER guy but when it's my guy
" But I'm not sure that's always the case though. There were a good bit of democratic leaning folks in the PSF that seemed like they were putting party aside.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I already said Northam is probably going to lose his job. And he should.I hear you. I tire of the "It's terrible when it's the OTHER guy but when it's my guy
But I'm not sure that's always the case though. There were a good bit of democratic leaning folks in the PSF that seemed like they were putting party aside.
I was just pointing out with my reference to Soul Man that the mid-80s weren't some Age Of Enlightenment. Revenge Of The Nerds is even worse - they caught every stereotype in one net.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Wildcat
Footballguy
I’m sure hoping you can see the difference between applying black makeup with the intention of imitating/appearing as that person (such as Karl Malone) and dressing in KKK garb. Not even in the same ballpark.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes, the 80s were not the 50s as far as racial injustices go but to act like they weren’t a different time at all is disingenuous or just not really remembering what it was like. Political correctness has increased a thousand fold since then.
Now this is particularly egregious and I’m not defending these photos - especially in context to where they appeared but it was certainly a “different time” on many levels.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I don't know how anyone can think this given the state of the top office in the country.
Otis
Footballguy
This is sort of where I come out too. Trying to give leeway for folks, for things that happened a long time ago. Not all people and all parts of the country have progressed at the same rate; there's still a lot of ignorance about this stuff, but it's diminishing with each generation, and we're making progress. And I think we were far worse off in the 80s than people in here seem willing to remember; I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, and I'm not saying that most of us knew plenty well at that point that this would not have been funny and that racism was wrong. But we've come a long damn way since then.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think it’s a combo of cost effectiveness and aesthetics. B&W photos create a more “nostalgic” look and just look better overall sometimes.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Yep. Although no one on our committee was going for nostalgia. I think it was a $95 or $225 type of thing...lol
comfortably numb
Footballguy
1st time seeing that. Pretty funny despite the Charles Barkley voice action he had goin
"Accountable" - yes.
We should always be accountable for our words/actions.
That does not necessarily mean losing a job - but it depends on the severity of the words/actions and any mitigating factors in the time since the incident.
I also don't buy the argument - "It was a different time"
Not everyone was racist in the "different time" - just because it was more acceptable by society, never made it right.
We should always be accountable for our words/actions.
That does not necessarily mean losing a job - but it depends on the severity of the words/actions and any mitigating factors in the time since the incident.
I also don't buy the argument - "It was a different time"
Not everyone was racist in the "different time" - just because it was more acceptable by society, never made it right.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
My senior year a buddy and I took a picture with T-shirts that said "Professional Muff Divers" "No Muff Too Tough" I would like to think I have grown as a man since those days. But, if someone wanted to hold that against me I would understand.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I see you and others posting this, but dont get where you are getting this. Dems are calling for this guy's resignation.I hear you. I tire of the "It's terrible when it's the OTHER guy but when it's my guy
But I'm not sure that's always the case though. There were a good bit of democratic leaning folks in the PSF that seemed like they were putting party aside.
Or is this a Trump vs this guy reaction thing?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I'm struggling with people treating 1984 like it's 1954 (or 1884). 1984 was 30 years after the sit ins and 20 years after Selma. It was only a couple years before things had gone "too far" for conservatives -- with books like "The Closing of the American Mind" and "political correctness" becoming an every day thing on the right.Otis said:
I grew up in a place that was 98% white and pretty ignorant about racial stuff and as high schoolers a lot of us knew where that line was. And even if we strayed over it, I think we'd have been stopped from doing anything like that by the school.
He was 24 at a med school, not 16 in HS. Add in the nick name and air-brushing Fairfax out of campaign flyers and there's enough of a doubt there that he has to go.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It's not bizarre at all. He knows the real reason and can't come up with a credible way to misdirect people. He can't tell the truth, because the truth is too ugly to say out loud. So he has to settle for silence.
Bonzai
Footballguy
I'm not convinced by the "it was a different time" arguments. It was wrong, flat out. Yet it was 40 years ago. Do people really think this guy is racist? Has any of his recent behavior suggested that? If not, I don't see how this is different than any of the other internet mobs unnecessarily ruining peoples' lives.
rockaction
Footballguy
Is a great book. I wonder what Allan Bloom has anything to do with racial dreck. That's just fundamentally wrong. The book was largely about Nietzsche. He opposed armed sit-ins by black students at Cornell along with Walter Berns. They resigned because of the capitulation and went to the University of Toronto. That seems pretty much an off response to this.
People should be held accountable for their acts - past or present. Is it fair that this guy’s egregious behavior was revealed at a time when the public’s tolerance of blackface is at an all time low? Maybe not. But life isn’t fair. Those who aspire to be politicians and entertainers should know that high-profile careers require extraordinary care to avoid offensive behavior. Excoriating those who commit racist (and misogynist) acts, and even forcing some high-profile offenders to lose their jobs, results in fewer racist acts from those in the general public Unfortunately the foregoing doesn’t appear to apply to our president
It’s interesting to note that the public outcry against blackface is a relatively recent phenomenon. While it certainly has been known to be an offensive behavior, it’s only recently that donning blackface (or being discovered donning blackface) is a career ending move. Here’s a Wiki list of stars that have dressed in blackface - List. Some notable examples, all of whom were criticized, but their careers endured.
In 1993, Ted Danson wore blackface to a roast of his then-girlfriend, Whoopi Goldberg.
in 2000, Jimmy Fallon dressed in blackface on SNL to impersonate Chris Rock.
Jimmy Kimmel dressed in blackface several times on The Man Show
in 2008, Robert Downey Jr. wore blackface in the movie, Tropic Thunder,
in 2012, a video of Tom Hanks wearing blackface in 2004 surfaced.
In 2012, Billy Crystal wore blackface in a skit while he was host at the Oscars.
I don’t think this guy is racist. But I like the message that a racist, misogynist, or homophobic act could jeopardize your career (now or in the future). Hopefully young people see the consequences of these acts and refrain from offensive behavior.
It’s interesting to note that the public outcry against blackface is a relatively recent phenomenon. While it certainly has been known to be an offensive behavior, it’s only recently that donning blackface (or being discovered donning blackface) is a career ending move. Here’s a Wiki list of stars that have dressed in blackface - List. Some notable examples, all of whom were criticized, but their careers endured.
In 1993, Ted Danson wore blackface to a roast of his then-girlfriend, Whoopi Goldberg.
in 2000, Jimmy Fallon dressed in blackface on SNL to impersonate Chris Rock.
Jimmy Kimmel dressed in blackface several times on The Man Show
in 2008, Robert Downey Jr. wore blackface in the movie, Tropic Thunder,
in 2012, a video of Tom Hanks wearing blackface in 2004 surfaced.
In 2012, Billy Crystal wore blackface in a skit while he was host at the Oscars.
I don’t think this guy is racist. But I like the message that a racist, misogynist, or homophobic act could jeopardize your career (now or in the future). Hopefully young people see the consequences of these acts and refrain from offensive behavior.
Sand
Footballguy
It was. It was a time of big hair and Member's Only jackets. KKK robes - not so much.
And I don't know about others but our yearbooks were scrutinized and scrubbed squeaky clean. We would have had things orders of magnitude less offensive edited out.
Sand
Footballguy
Politicians are a bit unique in that their job is, in large part, their public face and history. I don't think this picture should get him fired in many, many other professions. But governor? Yeah, he's gotta go.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I definitely lean right, and while what he did in his youth was very insensitive and stupid, I don't think he should have to resign for this. That said, if anyone thinks a Republican/conservative would survive this politically for more than a day or two, you're either nuts or intellectually dishonest.
Where does the "statute of limitations" end on this kind of stuff? I regret a lot of stupid stuff I said and did in my youth. I'd hate to be held to the standard where I could never be a part of public life for things I said or did decades ago. People grow, get smarter, and change. Is there no redemption from this?
If anyone should be outraged, it should be for his indefensible support of the VA abortion bill, which thankfully did not pass.
Where does the "statute of limitations" end on this kind of stuff? I regret a lot of stupid stuff I said and did in my youth. I'd hate to be held to the standard where I could never be a part of public life for things I said or did decades ago. People grow, get smarter, and change. Is there no redemption from this?
If anyone should be outraged, it should be for his indefensible support of the VA abortion bill, which thankfully did not pass.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Liberal Democrat here - Northam has to resign. Stop with the excuses. The governor is the leader of the state, and in 2019 the people of Virginia can surely find someone capable who doesn’t have this baggage.
This is what seperates us from Republicans. Do the right thing Northam.
This is what seperates us from Republicans. Do the right thing Northam.
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
LOL at the idea Republicans wouldn’t “survive” this. McConnell accepting awards from racist groups in front of Confederate flags down? What about Trump and his racist birtherism?
Edit to add: yes you should absolutely be held accountable for things you did in your 20s if you are asking the public for a leadership position.
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Trump is the exception. Nothing seems to stick to him. You really think a Republican gov would have any chance of surviving this?
rockaction
Footballguy
This. Politically. Socially, intellectually -- I lean with people that don't want to forgive as public figure. The '80s were not blackface and Klu Klux Klan. That was verboten long ago.
And yearbook editors? What the hell?
This all smacks of the eugenics movement from the 1910s and 1920s
For @tommyGunZ,Good job progressives, you've got your leaders back. Margaret Sanger in the hizzouse.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
If you want to change the world tell a different that finger-pointing, hand-slapping & wound-licking are all enemies of personal liberation and that minding other people's business is how most oppression got traction in the first place.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I should clarify:
There's a long history of eugenics and abortion, and it's usually done by racist whites that want to abort black babies.
There's a theory about superiority of race and other things.
And most times, it's Democrats and people like Woodrow Wilson supporting it. If this needs to go to the PSF, let it go there, but the point stands. The progressive movement in the U.S. was largely tied to eugenics and forced incarceration, as Michael Willrich, liberal democrat, pointed out in City Of Courts. It's an awful history, and one that doesn't get reported because of...well, I'll leave you to figure that out.
There's a long history of eugenics and abortion, and it's usually done by racist whites that want to abort black babies.
There's a theory about superiority of race and other things.
And most times, it's Democrats and people like Woodrow Wilson supporting it. If this needs to go to the PSF, let it go there, but the point stands. The progressive movement in the U.S. was largely tied to eugenics and forced incarceration, as Michael Willrich, liberal democrat, pointed out in City Of Courts. It's an awful history, and one that doesn't get reported because of...well, I'll leave you to figure that out.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
First time I have ever seen that....yikes!! Very surprised this has not resurfaced. But then is that considered blackface? Or just going into a character?
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rockaction
Footballguy
There's a difference between the legal asking for a government figure to resign and asking for penance from a person.
That's the issue; the assumption the political is personal. It shouldn't be. And the shame culture shouldn't reign o'er him legally.
Maybe if people did a better job locally in electing their representatives, we'd know what we have, but we don't.
Chemical X
Footballguy
i don’t want to read all posts and get into a long conversation, cause this can go on forever. This is a country that had Strom Thurmond as a senator for a bazillion years, which is my only point. Can’t be anymore racist than his record i would think.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Uh, yeah, speaking of things from more than 50 years ago that aren't relevant anymore.....
Sand
Footballguy
High school, IMO. If this was Northam's HS yearbook I'd say he should be able to apologize and stay. That's my personal line.
Obviously not the line that many in the political camps think there should be. We had Kavanaugh's HS yearbook. Heck, we had Democratic operatives trying to throw dirt on Stephen Miller for who he was in third grade. Yes, third grade. For some there is no line.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Beaten children beat children. Persecuted persecute. Of course do no business w those carrying past deeds, but light a torch and you're a villager.
