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Should the Niners draft Leinart? (1 Viewer)

iSnitch

Footballguy
With Houston having the inside track to Bush, it looks like the Niners will be fighting with the Jets for Matt. Noodle arm has been a bust in NY and while I believe it may be a bit premature to crap on Smith, if Leinart is half the pro that he is college qb, I can't imagine Alex will ever compare.Really, is Alex a bust or is it too early to tell?Also, if Leinart is a once in a lifetime qb, a guy that can turnaround a franchise by himself, why pass on somebody like that?

 

JuniorNB

Footballguy
I think that we should close the book on the Alex Smith experiment.He's had two or three starts to show what he can do, he should be Montana-esque by now.I think that the Niners should draft a quarterback in the first round for the next five years and ignore all the other weaknesses that make it impossible for a QB to succeed. :sarcasm:

 

Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Lets look at this post for what it was, a question about talent.Truth is, Leinart is a nice player, and had he been available last year, he would be a niner and alex smith would be in Miami or Tampa Bay. Anyhow, the reason this won't happen is that the niners have alex smith, and even if he has a worse career than leinart, you cannot draft 2 qbs this early back to back. Even Houston's reggie bush hard on is hard to believe when they have Dom Davis, but with davis they may be able to get some value for him and it wouldn't be too bad of a cap hit while any move involving alex smith would kill the niner cap and not bring value in line with his pick last year.If the niners are ahead of the jets on draft day, they will be a player for any team interested in Leinart to move ahead of the jets to get him. Leinart may go at that pick, but not to the niners.

 

smcindoe

Footballguy
I think that the Niners should draft a quarterback in the first round for the next five years and ignore all the other weaknesses that make it impossible for a QB to succeed.
Sure, great plan. Keep drafting the same position while the rest of the team crashes and burns. What kind of idiot would do that?
 

FrostBite

Footballguy
I think that the Niners should draft a quarterback in the first round for the next five years and ignore all the other weaknesses that make it impossible for a QB to succeed.
Sure, great plan. Keep drafting the same position while the rest of the team crashes and burns. What kind of idiot would do that?
awesome :lmao:
 

CalBear

Footballguy
The Niners this year will be in position to do what they should have done last year; trade down. No one was that interested in Alex Smith, but someone will be interested in Leinart.

 

EdwardCat

Footballguy
Alex Smith is terrible, yes. However, Eli Manning was terrible last year. Smith has only started a handful of games.

 

Sinrman

Footballguy
I think that the Niners should draft a quarterback in the first round for the next five years and ignore all the other weaknesses that make it impossible for a QB to succeed.
Sure, great plan. Keep drafting the same position while the rest of the team crashes and burns. What kind of idiot would do that?
:lmao: :bag: As for Smith. Way, WAY too early to give up on Smith already. They invested a ton in him. I would ride him for a few years to make sure you didn't make a mistake (a la Drew Brees and San Diego). If it doesn't work out, move on (a la Tim Couch and Cleveland, and HOPEFULLY Joey Harrington and Detroit).

49ers are just like the TExans, and have a ton of holes to fill. Trade their high pick for multiple picks and try to plug those holes with top talent.

 

DoctorDetroit

Chocolate Thunder
Aikmen, Eli Manning, Culpepper, Bradshaw, Plunkett, and many others would have been traded after their first years under this theory. The Niners are terrible and Smith is still learning a very complex job. College to NFL QB may be the toughest transition in all of sports and Smith has a big brain and good playmaking ability. He'll be just fine. Again, I apologize for responding and bumping this post up.

 

RedRaiders

Mr. +EV
With Houston having the inside track to Bush, it looks like the Niners will be fighting with the Jets for Matt. Noodle arm has been a bust in NY and while I believe it may be a bit premature to crap on Smith, if Leinart is half the pro that he is college qb, I can't imagine Alex will ever compare.

Really, is Alex a bust or is it too early to tell?

Also, if Leinart is a once in a lifetime qb, a guy that can turnaround a franchise by himself, why pass on somebody like that?
:lmao: :lmao:
 

Dancing Bear

Footballguy
A QB transitioning from the NCAA to the NFL is at least a 2 year time-frame; more likely 3.There is no way to tell at this time whether Alex Smith is a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf. On top of the fact that San Francisco has so many holes to fill right now, there is no way to really assess Alex's performance. He has not ended up on his back as much as Carr, but he is regularly running for his life!The 49ers need to do one of the following:a) Trade down in the draft to acquire O-Line, WR or fill the many DE holesb) Grab Bush to take some pressure off of Alex and Co.IMHO, there is no way they should draft another QB!

 

smcindoe

Footballguy
All they have to do to get the top pick is out-tank the Texans.
If both SF and Houston lose the rest of the way, and the 49ers lose the week 17 matchup with Houston to create a tie, who gets the pick?
 

ConstruxBoy

Kate's Daddy
I don't know, but they sure as hell should have Leinart throw some NFL-sized footballs before they draft him.

 

ConstruxBoy

Kate's Daddy
All they have to do to get the top pick is out-tank the Texans.
If both SF and Houston lose the rest of the way, and the 49ers lose the week 17 matchup with Houston to create a tie, who gets the pick?
They both get contracted and we're down to 30 teams.
 
It is really not possible for the niners to draft another QB. This does, however, go to show that taking a questionable QB at the top of round 1 is a huge risk for the franchise, because it reduces your flexibility in the future.For example, Harrington (#3) and Rogers (#2) have both been busts for the Lions, but Harrington has done a lot more damage to the Lions, in part because his selection prevented the Lions from drafting somebody like Roethlisberger.

 

TwinTurbo

Footballguy
For example, Harrington (#3) and Rogers (#2) have both been busts for the Lions, but Harrington has done a lot more damage to the Lions, in part because his selection prevented the Lions from drafting somebody like Roethlisberger.
Exactly, or trading up the following year from #2 to #1 to get Carson Palmer. This is why I don't think it's smart to draft a QB that high if they don't grade out as a true #1. It seems teams always reach on a QB at the top of the first round because it's viewed as the smart move. But they should just trade down even if it means getting less value. It's a pick than can really cripple the franchise.

I viewed Alex Smith as this type of pick. He was not first round material. And therefore the 49ers should have traded down for whatever they could get. Let someone else waste 3-5 years figuring it out.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
All they have to do to get the top pick is out-tank the Texans.
If both SF and Houston lose the rest of the way, and the 49ers lose the week 17 matchup with Houston to create a tie, who gets the pick?
SF does, which is why I wonder why there is no SF Bush talk at all, just Houston Bush. As far as I can tell Houston seems to be a competitive team lately and SF does not so it wouldn't surprise me at all if SF loses to Houston and takes Bush. They would dump Barlow in a heart beat.
 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
Smiths hands are too small..he can`t grip the NFL football. Smith is fumbling 3-4 times a game without being hit.

 

cstu

Footballguy
Smiths hands are too small..he can`t grip the NFL football. Smith is fumbling 3-4 times a game without being hit.
"Alex does not have small hands," Nolan said. "I would say Alex is just above a medium, if I had to guess. He has normal-sized hands."

Smith said he remembers his hands being measured at the combine, where draft prospects are put through tests and evaluations before the April draft.

"From what I have been told, I have a medium-sized hand," Smith said. "I'm not overly huge. They're not small."
His hands are bigger than Frye's and he doesn't seem to have a problem. I think it's something else.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
All they have to do to get the top pick is out-tank the Texans.
If both SF and Houston lose the rest of the way, and the 49ers lose the week 17 matchup with Houston to create a tie, who gets the pick?
SF does, which is why I wonder why there is no SF Bush talk at all, just Houston Bush. As far as I can tell Houston seems to be a competitive team lately and SF does not so it wouldn't surprise me at all if SF loses to Houston and takes Bush. They would dump Barlow in a heart beat.
No. NFL draft position tiebreakers are not based on head to head. It's based on who had the easier schedule, the thought being that if you had an easier schedule than someone else, you're a worse team if you ended with the same record.At the moment Houston holds the tiebreaker by a couple of games, .574 to .586 for SF. But those numbers could easily change over the course of a week or two. Especially if division foes (whose records get counted twice, once for each game they play against the team) win/lose consistently.

You are right that Houston looks competitive now though. I think they'll surely beat one of Arizona or San Francisco. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat a Leftwich-less and possibly Fred Taylor-less Jacksonville either.

 

Donnybrook

Footballguy
It is really not possible for the niners to draft another QB. This does, however, go to show that taking a questionable QB at the top of round 1 is a huge risk for the franchise, because it reduces your flexibility in the future.

For example, Harrington (#3) and Rogers (#2) have both been busts for the Lions, but Harrington has done a lot more damage to the Lions, in part because his selection prevented the Lions from drafting somebody like Roethlisberger.
I find it interesting that people are giving up Harrington but not prepared to give up on Carr. IMO, Carr’s career so far has been as bad as Harrington’s. Harrington has 2 years left on his contract and Carr will be a free agent if the Texans don’t pick up his option. This means Houston could choose to let Carr walk without penalty while Detroit would lose whatever was left on Harrington’s signing bonus. People talk about the Texans and Bush like it is a done deal. Until the Texans re-sign Carr, I won’t be shocked if the Texans call Lienart name on draft day.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
All they have to do to get the top pick is out-tank the Texans.
If both SF and Houston lose the rest of the way, and the 49ers lose the week 17 matchup with Houston to create a tie, who gets the pick?
SF does, which is why I wonder why there is no SF Bush talk at all, just Houston Bush. As far as I can tell Houston seems to be a competitive team lately and SF does not so it wouldn't surprise me at all if SF loses to Houston and takes Bush. They would dump Barlow in a heart beat.
No. NFL draft position tiebreakers are not based on head to head. It's based on who had the easier schedule, the thought being that if you had an easier schedule than someone else, you're a worse team if you ended with the same record.At the moment Houston holds the tiebreaker by a couple of games, .574 to .586 for SF. But those numbers could easily change over the course of a week or two. Especially if division foes (whose records get counted twice, once for each game they play against the team) win/lose consistently.

You are right that Houston looks competitive now though. I think they'll surely beat one of Arizona or San Francisco. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat a Leftwich-less and possibly Fred Taylor-less Jacksonville either.
I didn't realize that head to head didn't matter like it does in playoffs.Since they both play Jacksonville, each other and SF plays St. Louis and Houston plays Arizona, it almost seems like Houston can't get out of the top spot if they tie. Houston must beat Arizona this week and then SF in the last week. Although, if Houston does that they could very easily end up tied again with the Jets, New Orleans and GB. Heck there could be a log jam at 3-13 if SF beat St. Louis as well, which they did earlier in the year with a healthy Bulger.

 
It is really not possible for the niners to draft another QB. This does, however, go to show that taking a questionable QB at the top of round 1 is a huge risk for the franchise, because it reduces your flexibility in the future.

For example, Harrington (#3) and Rogers (#2) have both been busts for the Lions, but Harrington has done a lot more damage to the Lions, in part because his selection prevented the Lions from drafting somebody like Roethlisberger.
I find it interesting that people are giving up Harrington but not prepared to give up on Carr.
Who isn't prepared to give up on Carr?
 

coachjim

Footballguy
Leinart will be at best an average NFL QB assuming that he goes to the right team. He does not possess a cannon for an arm, is slow in the pocket by NFL standards, and he is not the sharpest tool in the shed either.Leinart in my opinion was not even in the top 5 QB's in college this year.

 

GregR_2

Footballguy
It is really not possible for the niners to draft another QB. This does, however, go to show that taking a questionable QB at the top of round 1 is a huge risk for the franchise, because it reduces your flexibility in the future.

For example, Harrington (#3) and Rogers (#2) have both been busts for the Lions, but Harrington has done a lot more damage to the Lions, in part because his selection prevented the Lions from drafting somebody like Roethlisberger.
I find it interesting that people are giving up Harrington but not prepared to give up on Carr. IMO, Carr’s career so far has been as bad as Harrington’s. Harrington has 2 years left on his contract and Carr will be a free agent if the Texans don’t pick up his option. This means Houston could choose to let Carr walk without penalty while Detroit would lose whatever was left on Harrington’s signing bonus. People talk about the Texans and Bush like it is a done deal. Until the Texans re-sign Carr, I won’t be shocked if the Texans call Lienart name on draft day.
First, Mort said about a week ago that Bob McNair has said they are exercising the option on David Carr. So assuming Mort was right, Leinart doesn't look like a possibility at all.But as for giving up on Harrington but not Carr, I think there's some justification there. Harrington has not been an accurate passer his entire time in the NFL. He's had a decent if not great line to play behind, yet he's turned out the two worst yards per attempt averages in NFL history. Not just the worst, but the two worst. (Source, Doug Drinen).

ESPN Insider did an article comparing Carr, Harrington and Ramsey, the three QBs from that draft class. They looked at every single play for each last year, and measured metrics like decision making, accuracy of throws, how many bad decisions that cost their teams they made, etc. Harrington ranked pretty low overall, and especally at the bottom of pass accuracy. And not just overall, but he was inaccurate at every distance, from deep to short throws. I think Harrington has had a pretty good shot and we haven't seen much from him.

Carr on the other hand has been very accurate and generally hasn't made a lot of bad decisions. His completion percentage is in the low 60s, Harringtons in the mid 50s. Carr hasn't had a lot of time to throw. There are definitely some knocks on him. Some people believe he is too slow of a decision maker. I think there may be a little bit of merit there, though I think most people I hear it from tend to overstate it a bit, as watching the games live when Palmer was the OC, there were a lot of plays that not only didn't a receiver get open, but the routes were run so deep that Carr had to bail or was sacked before the receivers made their cuts.

Carr's gotten shellshocked by the number of hits he's taken, and that is his biggest problem if you ask me. He doesn't do a good job of moving up in the pocket to buy time like most QBs, though it's kind of understandable given how bad the interior line play has been. Carr is fast, but not elusive. He got into a mentality that he'd take off for the sidelines, and often this moved him outside the pocket and let the D chase him, when he would have had a bit more time if he'd stayed longer and kept the O-linemen between he and the pass rusher.

The entire team gave up on Capers and Palmer, so it's kind of hard to judge Carr based on this season. But even so, if you watch a Texans game other than that horrible night he had against KC, Carr has been making accurate throws and delivering the ball to where his receivers can get it. I just don't see Harrington doing that as much as an NFL QB should. Even on a poor team like the Lions, I think he should have shown more than he has by now.

Edit to add: In summary, I think a lot of Carr's problems can be solved by getting some decent coaching, and having a good line to play behind. Harrington, I don't know that that is going to do it. I don't know how much coaching can improve things like accuracy.

 
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gocats

Footballguy
Leinart will be at best an average NFL QB assuming that he goes to the right team. He does not possess a cannon for an arm, is slow in the pocket by NFL standards, and he is not the sharpest tool in the shed either.

Leinart in my opinion was not even in the top 5 QB's in college this year.
I disagree. He has thrown balls very accuratly 40-45 yards.People were saying Manning had a weak arm coming out of college. Matt is a Carson Palmer-Manning like prospect.

 

Ozymandias

Footballguy
I wonder who the idiot was that drafted Steve Young? In his first 2 years in the NFL he threw 10 td's and 21 int's.It's amazing how stupid some NFL people are, when there is a surfeit of genius in the Shark Pool.

 

toxicbees

Footballguy
I agree it's too early to give up on Smith. But he looks really bad out there. I mean, you would think that he'd have a TD by now at least. But his stats are downright horrible, way worse than Eli's last year. I mean a QB rating of 24 with 9 ints and 0 tds. His stats don't tell the whole story either, as a Niners homer I've watched every game this season (painfully I might add), and I haven't seen a single play out of Smith that has given me even a bit of hope. I wish I could say something like, he scrambles well or has a strong arm or makes good decisions, but he hasn't done anything right.Leinart is about as guaranteed as they come. Maybe the Niners would be better off going with a guy like Leinart rather than wait 3-4 years to figure out they have a bust in Smith.

 

cstu

Footballguy
I agree it's too early to give up on Smith. But he looks really bad out there. I mean, you would think that he'd have a TD by now at least. But his stats are downright horrible, way worse than Eli's last year. I mean a QB rating of 24 with 9 ints and 0 tds. His stats don't tell the whole story either, as a Niners homer I've watched every game this season (painfully I might add), and I haven't seen a single play out of Smith that has given me even a bit of hope. I wish I could say something like, he scrambles well or has a strong arm or makes good decisions, but he hasn't done anything right.

Leinart is about as guaranteed as they come. Maybe the Niners would be better off going with a guy like Leinart rather than wait 3-4 years to figure out they have a bust in Smith.
Eli is almost 25 and has pro QB's all around him. Smith doesn't turn 22 until next May. Give the guy some time since he's young and learning a new system on a horrible team.
 

iSnitch

Footballguy
Alex Smith is completing half of his passes, averaging LESS than five yards per attempt, has 0 touchdowns and 9 interceptions with a passer rating of 24.724.7-that's beyond this :X :X :X Eli last year has a sub 50% completion rate but threw for 6 td's along with his 9 interceptions. His passer rating was 55.4Ok though, he has some weapons around him:Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, etc.Kyle Orton doesn't have much around him and despite him being a rookie, people are saying he's not that good-I've heard some say he's got potential to be pretty solid and others say he has career backup written all over. 9 td's 13 interceptions, just over 50% completion rate, 5.2 yards per attempt and a qb rating of 60.9Alex has only about a third of the attempts Orton does but he better show some significant improvement between now and the end of the season. If he had been drafted in any round but the first people would be calling him a dog with limited potential. Since he was the top overall pick it seems he gets more benefit of the doubt.

 

toxicbees

Footballguy
Exactly, as a first overall pick, he should have better numbers than he does. The Niners could have spend 40 million less, and got a guy like Smith in the 5th round.I'm convinced Rodgers would have been a better pick first overall.

 

Irish

Footballguy
With Houston having the inside track to Bush, it looks like the Niners will be fighting with the Jets for Matt. Noodle arm has been a bust in NY and while I believe it may be a bit premature to crap on Smith, if Leinart is half the pro that he is college qb, I can't imagine Alex will ever compare.

Really, is Alex a bust or is it too early to tell?

Also, if Leinart is a once in a lifetime qb, a guy that can turnaround a franchise by himself, why pass on somebody like that?
Leinart has a noodle arm himself. He is way overrated as far as a pro propects.
 
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ConstruxBoy

Kate's Daddy
With Houston having the inside track to Bush, it looks like the Niners will be fighting with the Jets for Matt. Noodle arm has been a bust in NY and while I believe it may be a bit premature to crap on Smith, if Leinart is half the pro that he is college qb, I can't imagine Alex will ever compare.

Really, is Alex a bust or is it too early to tell?

Also, if Leinart is a once in a lifetime qb, a guy that can turnaround a franchise by himself, why pass on somebody like that?
Leinart has a noodle arm himself. He is way overrated as far as a pro propects.
:goodposting:
 

cstu

Footballguy
Alex Smith is completing half of his passes, averaging LESS than five yards per attempt, has 0 touchdowns and 9 interceptions with a passer rating of 24.7

24.7-that's beyond this :X :X :X

Eli last year has a sub 50% completion rate but threw for 6 td's along with his 9 interceptions. His passer rating was 55.4

Ok though, he has some weapons around him:Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, etc.

Kyle Orton doesn't have much around him and despite him being a rookie, people are saying he's not that good-I've heard some say he's got potential to be pretty solid and others say he has career backup written all over. 9 td's 13 interceptions, just over 50% completion rate, 5.2 yards per attempt and a qb rating of 60.9

Alex has only about a third of the attempts Orton does but he better show some significant improvement between now and the end of the season. If he had been drafted in any round but the first people would be calling him a dog with limited potential. Since he was the top overall pick it seems he gets more benefit of the doubt.
Orton has Thomas Jones and a damn good OL. The 49ers OL is a joke and Barlow and co. can't run the ball to keep pressure off Smith. Not making excuses for Smith but very few QB's would be successful after being throw into the fire with the 49ers.
 

J-Rock

Footballguy
As a niners fan I had to chime in on this one. - It is way too early to tell if Smith will be any good. I know the niners look terrible right now (32 ranked D, 32 ranked O). It is important to understand why. This is their first year under an new coaching staff, new offensive and Defensive systems, and a rookie QB. Key members (Pro Bowlers) of the offense are out (Newberry, E. Johnson, Parrish, etc.) They will get it turned around in the next 2-3 years and will probably be a contender by 2010 (man that seems far away).- IMO SF needs a stud RB. Barlow is completely over rated. Gore could be good but he's no stud. I'd love to see them land Bush but I don't see that happening. I think the niners trade down and take an O' lineman (D'Brickashaw Ferguson - reach, Jonathan Scott, Eric Winston, Marcus McNeil?) and a RB that has fallen completely under the radar who probably would have neen a top 5 pick last year RB DeAngelo Williams out of Memphis. It may be wishful thinking to see one of these guys fall into the second round but you never know.

 

iSnitch

Footballguy
Alex Smith is completing half of his passes, averaging LESS than five yards per attempt, has 0 touchdowns and 9 interceptions with a passer rating of 24.7

24.7-that's beyond this  :X   :X   :X

Eli last year has a sub 50% completion rate but threw for 6 td's along with his 9 interceptions.  His passer rating was 55.4

Ok though, he has some weapons around him:Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, etc.

Kyle Orton doesn't have much around him and despite him being a rookie, people are saying he's not that good-I've heard some say he's got potential to be pretty solid and others say he has career backup written all over.  9 td's 13 interceptions, just over 50% completion rate, 5.2 yards per attempt and a qb rating of 60.9

Alex has only about a third of the attempts Orton does but he better show some significant improvement between now and the end of the season.  If he had been drafted in any round but the first people would be calling him a dog with limited potential.  Since he was the top overall pick it seems he gets more benefit of the doubt.
Orton has Thomas Jones and a damn good OL. The 49ers OL is a joke and Barlow and co. can't run the ball to keep pressure off Smith. Not making excuses for Smith but very few QB's would be successful after being throw into the fire with the 49ers.
Ok then, lets go with another team that has a piss poor o-line: the Bills and Losman.J.P.-8 td's and 8 int's. 5.9 ypa, 49.6 completion rate and a passer rating of 64.9

He's being benched for Holcomb.

McGahee hasn't been able to run the ball much better than Barlow.

 

toxicbees

Footballguy
It seems that no matter how badly Smith continues to suck, both the Niners and the media are giving him a free pass.

 

Irish

Footballguy
It seems that no matter how badly Smith continues to suck, both the Niners and the media are giving him a free pass.
Smith's injury marred rookie season is not even over yet. Qbs take time sometimes to develop. Brees sucked and now has had 2 good seasons and has made Rivers expendable. 49ers and their fans should have patience before evaluating Smith.
 

5Rings

Lurker
Exactly, as a first overall pick, he should have better numbers than he does. The Niners could have spend 40 million less, and got a guy like Smith in the 5th round.

I'm convinced Rodgers would have been a better pick first overall.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: I totally agree. With all the offensive weapons on the SF team, the stalwart injury-free veteran OL, and the proven offensive system led by Guru Mike McCarthey...Smith's numbers so far are totally unacceptable.

Good point on Rodgers. He's definately shown more than Alex Smith has so far this year.

I mean, 3 starts is more than enough for Smith to start producing, right?

:sarcasm:

GB the upcoming offseason purge of :hophead:

 

iSnitch

Footballguy
8/24 123 0 1

8 for 24, 123 yards, 0 td's and ANOTHER pick. But he did rush for thirty yards, proving he's as good a running back as Barlow. :D

He still has ZERO touchdown passes for the season. I'd like to see him throw at least one before the year is over.

 

iSnitch

Footballguy
Well he finished up on a high note, completing just over half his passes against a Texans team that made Kid Fitz look like the next Warner. He threw one more pick but he FINALLY tossed his first td.

 

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