In The Zone
Footballguy
Didn't see this posted anywhere.
I hate to see it as expectations are gonna be high next year here in Columbia but he is doing what's best for him and his family. Thanks for the good times Sidney.
Bye Bye Rice
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Sidney Rice declares (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter In The Zone
- Start date
Didn't see this posted anywhere.
I hate to see it as expectations are gonna be high next year here in Columbia but he is doing what's best for him and his family. Thanks for the good times Sidney.
Bye Bye Rice
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Love it!
CalBear
Footballguy
Yeah, just like those Penn State running backs.It is completely absurd to avoid a player because some other player from the same school didn't become a superstar. Most players bust.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
I agree Calbear.
I like Rice and Tony Hunt.
Im picking 7 and 8 and would love if these players were mine.
I like Rice and Tony Hunt.
Im picking 7 and 8 and would love if these players were mine.
pinda
Footballguy
Calbear, as much as I would agree with your logic normally, this just isn't the case here. The Penn St. RB theory I think is overblown. How many are there, 3 or 4 that have not panned out. Some people even go to the lengths of saying that LJ was headed down that way til he turned it around. Also, with the Penn State guys they all had some sort of injury that slowed them down. Most people who say the Penn State RB curse don't know the injuries that were involved with those players. For every Dozier, Blair Thomas, KJ Carter and Enis, we can use Curt Warner and LJ as examples of those that succeeded.But with Florida WRs, its not just a handful, it's so many. And they weren't injury related. It is more to do with an offense that works so well in college, it inflates the WRs value. They just have not been able to transform their college game to the NFL game. 1991 Ernie Mills, 3rd round1994 Willie Jackson, 4th round1994 Harrison Houston, 5th round1995 Jack Jackson, 4th round1996 Chris Doering, 6th round1997 Ike Hilliard, 1st round, 7th overall1997 Reidel Anthony, 1st round, 17th overall1998 Jacquez Green, 2nd round1999 Travis McGriff, 3rd round2000 Travis Taylor, 1st round, 10th overall2000 Darrel Jackson, 3rd round2002 Jabar Gaffney, 2nd round2002 Reche Caldwell, 2nd round2003 Taylor Jacobs, 2nd roundI'll stop there since he was gone after 2000, but he had major influences on those 2002 and 2003 players with Ron Zook taking over his system. You can't deny that's a scary list of players. Specifically since 1997 on. DJax is the only one worth mentioning as remotely successful, but even he hasn't put together multiple good years. I'm not saying that Rice will be bad; however, what I am saying is I've been burned by Hilliard, Green, Taylor, Gaffney and Jacobs. I'm just not willing to take the chance on Rice considering what's happened in the past.
weisguy0831
Footballguy
Darrell Jackson is a legitimate No. 1 WR on a passing team. You certainly can't call him a failure. Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell are still developing and both have shown signs of being pretty good with the Patriots. ... Obviously, as second-rounders you would like to have seen more by now, but patience can be rewarded.
pinda
Footballguy
You can't be serious???? Gaffney plays 1 decent game this week and you want to call that developing. Hell, even I could have a decent game in the NE passing offense at least once per season. As for Djax, I like the guy. I think he could definitely be a #1 if he wasn't made out of crystal. There's a reason the Seahawks paid a 1st rounder for Branch after signing Burelson in the offseason and knowing they still had Hackett coming up. Jackson is an awesome player, but always has some dings on him, but I'll give him the one success of that bunch.As for Caldwell, all I will say is Gabriel looked pretty good there as well a few games. New England WRs aren't players that I would put money on. They are very hit and miss. 4-5 decent #1 WR type games this year. I don't buy into his hype.
pinda
Footballguy
Thanks for pointing that out and adding nothing to the conversation. But if you read the post, you will see that I am saying Rice is talented; just that I won't personally take a chance on him. But hey as a first time poster in the SharkTank, let's go slander somebody before reading all the posts. Good Job.cowtown said:
Here's a quick lesson rookie; when you post in here, make sure you read the entire thread, not just a few posts. You will be eaten alive by posting stupid comments like the one above.What you fail to address is that since most of Spurrier's WRs have been a bust; a correlation can be drawn on the system that they play in college and the level of skill, knowledge, and ability required to excel at the NFL level. I am not the first, nor the last person to draw this correlation. But I'll take my chances in learning from the past in assessing for the future. The only person who is an idiot around here would be somebody who doesn't learn from his past. It wasn't a bust list, it was a comprehensive list of all the WRs out of Florida under Spurrier. But considering you go around calling people idiots because you don't believe in their opinion, I can already gauge the level of knowledge, skill, and abilities you have in communicating with people. The fact that you point out that they are a list of busts only strengthens my point. As for Rice, which is the topic of this conversation. I'm a gambling man and I play the odds. I'll play the odds that Rice is of the mold of the 9 out of 10 that are busts. If he turns out to be a superstar, then so be it and good on him. But I'm going to take my chances on the odds and what has happened in the past. Kind of like playing poker, you learn from your mistakes and you play odds. You should pick it up sometime, might help you judge better and actually learn to talk/communicate with people instead of being a keyboard warrior. Also, see a shrink about that anger problem. That much frustration, hate to see what your mother did to you when you were younger.
Last edited by a moderator:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
People also seem to forget about Lenny Moore, Lydell Mitchell and Franco Harris.
CalBear
Footballguy
So you have 7 players who were drafted in the third round or later, one of whom became a huge stud, and a couple of others who had pretty nice careers. Sounds about par for the course. You have three first rounders, two of whom have had decent but not great careers, one of which was marred by injury. That's a tiny sample size, and really not far below what you'd expect from that sample anyway.And there is absolutely no sample size for first-round WRs who played under Urban Meyer. Unless you believe it's the helmets which inflate the value of the WRs, there's no reason to expect that Reidel Anthony has any relation to current Florida players.
Schrute
Footballguy
Pardon? Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument!2000: 53-713-62001: 70-1081-82002: 62-877-42003: 68-1137-92004: 87-1199-72005: 38-482-32006: 63-956-10I count multiple good seasons. He's had four seasons with 7 or more TDs and has had three 1,000-yard seasons.
Pinda,This would be appropriate analysis if Rice's stock was based on a highlight reel of seemingly impressive plays that were set up by the fun n' gun. The reality is that Rice's draft stock is based mainly on his indidivual talent. Rice would be a first round prospect even if he was playing for Pearl River Community College.
B. Nugget
Footballguy
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that Rice's QB for half of this season started out as a RB/WR at the beginning of the year. Calvin Johnson gets a pass for Reggie Ball, why doesn't anyone cut Rice any slack for the same thing?
It's true, Rice really came alive when Blake Mitchell was re-inserted at QB. Rice had trouble making a dent when Syvelle Newton was in, except against the weakest competition.FYI, Newton is a quality athletic specimen who played some WR and some safety this year when Mitchell returned to the lineup. He'll be at the Shrine Game, listed as a WR - Cecil and I will give you the scoop on how he looks compared to the other draft prospects.
The Royal Jack
Footballguy
For what its worth Rice was a Lou Holtz carryover for Spurrier.
Sidney has tremendous hands, height, playmaking ability and a willingness to get hit.
The only ? is his speed. If he can run a 4.4 he is the #2 receiver behind Calvin Johnson. A 4.6 and perhaps he falls to the third. I suspect he runs in the 4.5's.
Sidney has tremendous hands, height, playmaking ability and a willingness to get hit.
The only ? is his speed. If he can run a 4.4 he is the #2 receiver behind Calvin Johnson. A 4.6 and perhaps he falls to the third. I suspect he runs in the 4.5's.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I've seen Rice and Jarrett both at full speed and I think Rice is faster. Both are certainly fast enough. Both are long striders who use length to separate on change of direction. Speed isn't that crucial for either unless they run horrible times, but I cannot imagine a 40 time that drops Rice from the first round.
The Royal Jack
Footballguy
I like the Jarrett comparison. I think Rice is more of a playmaker though.Good point on forty speed for Rice and Jarrett, but in this crowded receiver class I think teams may go for more of "sure thing" based on tangibles such as forty time.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I don't see why he would come out in this crowded receiver class. He should stay another year at Carolina. I think he is pulling a Troy Williamson on us.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I sort of agree with pinda, though I might go about saying it another way.I don't think you should avoid a player because some other player from the same school didn't become a superstar. But I do think you should appropriately weight someone's college stats in your decision making process if you feel he comes from a system where success in that system doesn't necessarily translate well to the NFL.That doesn't mean you don't take him. But you don't take him based strongly on his college success. You evaluate if his game will translate well to your particular pro system.
GregR_2
Footballguy
My guess is that he wants to give Detroit more choices for their first round pick.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I agree with all of this. And in Rice's case those who have watched him a lot see a player who translates beautifully. Forget the programs, forget the stats, just watch the play and you see why there was serious debate between Jarrett, Rice and (yes AND) Calvin Johnson. All three of them are very similar, faster Larry Fitzgeralds. Johnson is the measureable beast of the three. Jarrett has the monster system stats. Rice plays the exact same kind of game. Btw, when Rice is "in the zone" something that happened here and there in his career, and something that seems unique to special receivers, he is simply an amazing talent. Triple teamed and unstoppable. Considerably more pure talent than any receiver who came out of Spurrier's Florida days.
money insight bolded.
Last edited by a moderator:
GregR_2
Footballguy
Who is better when they are both at their average?
Oh that's Calvin. Rice's floor is way lower than Calvin's. Heck, Calvin's floor is a lot of WR prospects' penthouse suite.Who is better when they are both at their average?
money insight bolded.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Calvin. He is more of a freak. He has reportedly posted sub 4.4 and some ridiculous vertical I hate to quote because I don't believe it, but he is very explosive (the thing verticals measure best). He's not just more explosive and faster he's quite a bit bigger at 235. This skillsets are similar, the measureables separate them. Calvin seems more together psychologically, intellectually etc etc. They have both failed to be consistent mostly due to poor QB play. Rice is a declared redshirt sophomore, and his missing year of experience is pretty big in my eyes. There's should be no concern that Calvin is coming out too soon, but some for Rice.
This is great point. Rice is not the typical underclassman coming out, he's only got two years under his belt - he's a good candidate to seem like a bust at first, then have the light bulb turn on in year 2 or 3.
The Royal Jack
Footballguy
As far as "floor" is concerned, just check out Rice's stats at SC. He topped almost all of Sterling Sharpe's marks in just two seasons with the Gamecocks. He was very consistent. I believe a dozen 100 yard games. He is coming out as a sophomore and would likely be the top receiver next season had he stayed, with only two years experience is a concern however. With a good combine he'll be a Top 3 receiver in this year's draft. Momentum will build on this board for Rice by May. Plus no character issues and he takes contact and no injury concerns (for those with Ginn over Rice)
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I watched him four times this year. 3-31-0 against Georgia. 1-15-0 against Kentucky (very disappointing, btw). 7-126-1 against Arkansas (awesome performance where he made incredible catches in traffic while covered and going for poorly thrown balls, such a stud). Houston 8-139-1 (toyed with the defense in his final game). The only consistency on his gamelog is that he consistently struggled against the best defenses, but I blame that on QB play. Also half his TDs came in one game.
That's good to hear. Don't misunderstand my mild criticisms. He is in the top ten of my draft. I think he is one of the best 10 players in the country, right now.
