So did Mike Tomlin win the Super Bowl with Bill Cowher's team? (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

Not that I don't think he's a good coach, I'm just wondering the consensus.

I ask because most mouthbreathers say Gruden won it with Dungy's team.

 

[Adebisi]

I'm just wondering the consensus.

Why not make this a poll?

 

[Capella]

ok, poll added

 

[HellToupee]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

 

[Capella]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

Legit question. For seven years people said Gruden won it with Dungy's team. Just wondering if it's the same thing. Not knocking Tomlin as a coach.

 

[Steeler]

I don't think so because Harrison, Woodley and Timmons (although he only plays nickel) are key additions to the defense made by Tomlin.

I realize Harrison was on Cowher's team, but he was not starting... Tomlin let Porter go so Harrison could start.

 

[belljr]

Tough - I'll say the core is Bill but Tomlin has his own players/ideas/style sprinkled throughout so I'll say, NO

Also didn't Gruden win the year after Dungy left?

At least he has 2 years with the team

 

[Capella]

I don't think so because Harrison, Woodley and Timmons (although he only plays nickel) are key additions to the defense made by Tomlin.

Keenan McCardell was a huge addition to the offense for the Bucs in 02, and it's obvious Brad Johnson was a different QB in his system, particularly in the second half and in the playoffs, as he was never that good prior or after. Michael Pittman was also new to the team that year and added a lot, particularly a 120-yard game in the Super Bowl.

 

[SierraKiloBravo]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

Legit question. For seven years people said Gruden won it with Dungy's team. Just wondering if it's the same thing. Not knocking Tomlin as a coach.

Gruden absolutely won it with Dungy's team. Absolutely. Who's Jon Gruden coaching for these days?

 

[Capella]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

Legit question. For seven years people said Gruden won it with Dungy's team. Just wondering if it's the same thing. Not knocking Tomlin as a coach.

Gruden absolutely won it with Dungy's team. Absolutely. Who's Jon Gruden coaching for these days?

You didn't answer the question.Gruden got fired when one team had an opening. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Inspiration]

I have a feeling that the final view will depend on how well Tomlin's Steelers do in the future. Maybe the success of the 2002 Bucs was heavily dependent on Jon Gruden; however, his sub-.500 record and lack of playoff wins since that year have caused the public to view his championship as a product of Tony Dungy. The 2009 Steelers might have been Cowher's team, but if Mike Tomlin continues to win the future, the perception will be the opposite. Likewise, even if this team was a product of Tomlin's coaching talent, if he fails to produce in the future, questions such as this one might become frequent.

 

[comfortably numb]

I don't think that was fair to say about Gruden.

Gruden took a crap team in OAK and made them into contenders.

Then Gruden did with TB want Dungy did not.

Gruden has had success before and after year 1 in TB

Tomlin took over a good team coming off an 8-8 year, and in 2 years went 10-6 and 12-4 with a Super bowl win.

Bottom line, it aint easy to win a SB in the NFL.

Some teams/coaches seem obvious that the team made the coach, but I don't think this is the case with Tomlin.

Calahan in OAK he took Gruden's team to the SuperBowl.

What did he do before and after that year?

I always felt Switzer was the same case.

He did go on to have successful years in DAL, none reaching the success of year 1, but he did have a dynasty handed to him.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

As everyone knows, I'm as big a Cowher fan as there is, but the answer is unequivocally no.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Sort of. Changes have been made, but much of the team still has Cowher's blueprint all over it. Tomlin is a good coach, but he definitely walked into a great situation. Most coaches would kill for their first NFL head coaching job to be as good as that one was.

As for Gruden/Dungy, while that was mostly Dungy's team, Gruden did get them over a hump that Dungy couldn't seem to. Their terrible playoff performances in '00 and '01 are a testament to that.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I have a feeling that the final view will depend on how well Tomlin's Steelers do in the future. Maybe the success of the 2002 Bucs was heavily dependent on Jon Gruden; however, his sub-.500 record and lack of playoff wins since that year have caused the public to view his championship as a product of Tony Dungy. The 2009 Steelers might have been Cowher's team, but if Mike Tomlin continues to win the future, the perception will be the opposite. Likewise, even if this team was a product of Tomlin's coaching talent, if he fails to produce in the future, questions such as this one might become frequent.

 

[SierraKiloBravo]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

Legit question. For seven years people said Gruden won it with Dungy's team. Just wondering if it's the same thing. Not knocking Tomlin as a coach.

Gruden absolutely won it with Dungy's team. Absolutely. Who's Jon Gruden coaching for these days?

You didn't answer the question.Gruden got fired when one team had an opening. What does that have to do with anything?

Sorry. Digression. Tomlin was handed a strong team with a good defense and running game and a passable game manager in Roethlisberger. one that he had no hand in constructing or crafting prior to his arrival. It's about as good of a situation as I can imagine. I voted "yes." Now, if he had been hired as Detroit or Oakland's head coach and won the Super Bowl, it's all him. I wonder ... how long does it normally take for a team to completely shed the impact of its prior head coach?

 

[radballs]

The answer to the question in this thread usually takes time to answer. In Tomlin's case I would say he did enough to put his own stamp on the team to feel that he earned this SB victory.

 

[The Jerk]

Tomlin inherited as good a situation as a rookie head coach can have. To me, a more significant question might be how much credit should go to Tomlin vs. LeBeau for the defense, clearly the strength of this team? It's a hard question to answer. And even if few changes have been made schematically on the defense, that might actually be to Tomlin's credit. He was smart enough and/or has a small enough ego to recognize what he had on the defensive side.

I believe Tomlin's greatest contribution to the 2008 Steelers was in getting the team to stay focused and mentally tough. He embraced the challenges presented by the schedule, he specifically commented that "the expectations don't change" in the face of injury, and he avoided the letdown loss that often occurred once a year in Cowher's tenure. All four Steelers losses were to playoff teams and only the Tennessee game was out of reach late in the fourth quarter. His mental toughness and calm (at least outwardly) focus was illustrated in his demeanor after the Cardinals went ahead in SB XLIII.

As mentioned previously by others, while it may or may not be accurate, the degree of success experienced by the Steelers in the next several seasons will have the largest effect on the long-term view of how much of this team's success gets credited to Tomlin.

 

[stewartcjae]

it says Capella but I'd swear this is a lhucks thread

Legit question. For seven years people said Gruden won it with Dungy's team. Just wondering if it's the same thing. Not knocking Tomlin as a coach.

Gruden absolutely won it with Dungy's team. Absolutely. Who's Jon Gruden coaching for these days?

Dungy couldnt win it with "Dungy's team".....just saying

 

[msommer]

Did Whisenhunt take Denny Green's team to the SB?

 

[Biabreakable]

I am pretty familiar with the ax being ground here.

Bottom line is that before Dungy the Bucs were a disgrace. Team was totaly inept in almost every way for close to 2 decades prior to Dungy and Monte Kiffin. In short order Dungy turned the team into a legit annual SB conteder. A lack of paitence from management led to Dungy being replaced by Gruden (for multiple draft picks which hurt the team).

I think what Dungy has done for the Bucs was and is really underappreciated and that is one of the main things behind people saying Gruden won with Dungy's team. I don't think it is even really meant to be a knock against Chucky but rather respect due to Dungy. At least that is my perspective.

If the Steelers had been nothing but a bunch of losers before Cowher came in and he turned the team into SB contenders but just fell short of the big game. Then the Steelers got impatient with him and brought in Tomlin who then wins the SB with the same team but goes on for the next 4-5 years being a lesser team than originaly inherited. Then maybe we could begin to see some similarity.

Can Steelers fans imagine if they had not been paitent with Cowher? And would that have been justified or smart?

If I were a Bucs fan I would be fond of the memories. What Dungy did for that team can never be replaced. He turned a losing.. perhaps getting close to abandoned and forgotten team and made them into winners. They know what winning is like. The Bucs will never go back to being what they were before Dungy again. I still think Dungy has had more influence on the team during his time with them than Gruden has in his. Kiffin not returning may have more to do with Chucky being replaced than we know. Fact is Kiffin still ran the defense. Gruden only changed up the offense. So from that aspect at least it WAS Dungy's team. The defense anyways. The Bucs could have kept their picks and brought in a OC instead of replacing Dungy.

As a Viking fan I have only seen the Vikings have 2 really good coaches since Jerry Burns quit (I am undecided about how good Jerry Burns and Bud Grant were coz I'm not old enough). Tony Dungy who I wanted to be put in charge over Da Knee Green right away but of course this would never happen. Then Tomlin who we only had the pleasure of being with the Vikings for 1 year. I wanted Tomlin to replace Childress too. Didn't get much of a chance to think that over though.

Be happy the Bucs got a championship. Vikings have been good but never "good enough". Maybe they should hire Gruden to win it all for them?

 

[Sheriff66]

As far as roster composition, probably, but Tomlin is a great motivator and coach. Since zero players from this years draft and 1 FA made an impact, and only 4 players from last years played a part, I would vote yes.

 

[bigums]

Bottom line is that before Dungy the Bucs were a disgrace. Team was totaly inept in almost every way for close to 2 decades prior to Dungy and Monte Kiffin. In short order Dungy turned the team into a legit annual SB conteder. A lack of paitence from management led to Dungy being replaced by Gruden (for multiple draft picks which hurt the team).I think what Dungy has done for the Bucs was and is really underappreciated and that is one of the main things behind people saying Gruden won with Dungy's team. I don't think it is even really meant to be a knock against Chucky but rather respect due to Dungy. At least that is my perspective.

Is it any coincidence that the Bucs were owned by a man cheaper than Tom Benson for all of those years? Is it any coincidence that when the Glazers took over and started to spend a few bucks on coaches and players that the team miraculously became competitive? Dungy was a part of the rise, but I don't think the Glazers (who I hate) get enough credit for changing the culture in that organization.Many hands are involved with building a team over the years, but there's only one guy there when the big game arrives. Regardless of how you want to slice it, the guy in charge when the confetti falls should get the credit for the SB win.

 

[Sheriff66]

As far as roster composition, probably, but Tomlin is a great motivator and coach. Since zero players from this years draft and 1 FA made an impact, and only 4 players from last years played a part, I would vote yes.

Kevin Colbert has had a lot to do with the roster as well, let's not forget him.